Is there an individual topic about BUG Walkers on the site? Or any discussions about this type of Nic Fit are going here?
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Is there an individual topic about BUG Walkers on the site? Or any discussions about this type of Nic Fit are going here?
Discussion about walker Fit's right here ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by mainactivenet
Havent heard a while about it.
I decided to try a kind of McDarby's list with some little changes:
Mainboard:
// creatures
4 x veteran explorer
2 x baleful strix
1 x scavenging ooze
1 x thragtusk
1 x tasigur, the golden fang
// planeswalkers
3 x jace, the mind sculptor
3 x liliana of the veil
2 x kiora, the crashing wave
1 x ugin, the spirit dragon
// discard
4 x cabal therapy
3 x hymn to tourach
// searching engine
4 x brainstorm
2 x ponder
// removal
4 x innocent blood
4 x pernicious deed
// lands
4 x polluted delta
4 x verdant catacombs
1 x phyrexian tower
2 x swamp
2 x island
2 x forest
1 x creeping tar pit
3 x underground sea
2 x bayou
1 x tropical island
So, the sideboard is in develloping progress and i have some doubts about Ugin, the spirit dragon vs Karn liberated.
Do anyone has some expirience piloting BUG walkers deck? I'm especially interresting for tests versus combo decks.
I played something similar to BUG walkers. I ran decay over IB and also had 3 snap casters. I had CTP and snapcaster/Tusk as win con (aside from Jace). I also played maindeck FOW. You will be able to hard cast it a decent amount of the time and it improves the combo game.
I do not this this Kiora is very good. If you played DRS I could see a case for the newest Kiora but as it is this one is worse than 4 mana flip garruk.
8 mana is a lot. If you want to run a big Walker I think Karn may be better.
I played Gprobe as well so my combo match game 1 was not great but discard into early lily/jace gave a chance. The addition of force also helped.
I bring in things like dispel, TS, surgical postboard.
2 Tom4ik
Could you post your deck list?
What was the feeling of piloting this deck, is it consistence or need something to improve topdecks?
Manlands are good if you need a manasinker. You have Pfire for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Here you might be able to find some ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by mainactivenet
Karador is a late game Meren that doesn't rely on triggers. The holy trinity actually is Phyrexian Tower/Diabolic Intent - Meren/Karador - Eternal Witness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadadot
That trinity (with some parts being interchangable) allows you to tutor any card from your deck every single turn/allows you to recur discard/removal every single turn. That's how you kick an opponent off his feet and proceed to break limb after limb every turn he doesn't come up with an answer to your engine.
@Bobmans: I'm glad to have been of help!
I brought Nic-Fit Blade to the local Monday legacy event yesterday. Turnout was on the low end at about 25-30 players. Sadly, it was not a good day for Veteran Explorer and company. A quick summary:
Round 1 vs. MUD
2-1
Game One: Super grindy - he got a turn three or four Blightsteel Colossus into play. I played double Veteran Explorer, chumped to go to 9 poison, fetched out 4 basics, and untapped into popping Pernicious Deed for 4 to kill his sidekick Lodestone Golem and playing Liliana of the Veil and forcing him to sacrifice Blightsteel Colossus. The game went on for a long time after that with him eventually searching out a Platinum Angel and beating down with it. My board of Grave Titan + Rhino got him down to -17 life and I was able to use top to find a Pernicious Deed, which I blew for 7 to win the game when Angel died.
Game Two: Sometimes you die to turn three Blightsteel Colossus!
Game Three: Two Deeds, a Qasali Pridemage, and a Titania (joined by two elementals) equipped with Sword of Fire and Ice were enough to grind out his permanents and keep him off of Forgemaster or bigger.
Round 2 vs. Reanimator
0-2
Game One: My early Deathrite (I can't remember if he was Zenithed for or naturally cast) was Dazed, leading me to believe I was up against BUG Delver. Naturally, I started developing my board with great creatures - easy day! Imagine my sadness when he untaps and plays Careful Study discarding Griselbrand, Reanimate.
Game Two: I've noticed that my play-style is a little bit too aggressive with this deck. This is a great example: I could have blind-cast Therapy turn one but instead lead off with Explorer. Had I just gone for Entomb turn one, this game would have been interactive. Instead, I faced down a turn two Griselbrand with no Liliana in hand. I had Karakas, but he had Pithing Needle.
Round 3 vs. Infect
1-2
Game One: My opponent attacks Glistener Elf into Veteran Explorer (the Elf was a 2/2 thanks to Noble Hierarch), allowing me to search out some basics. The game goes incredibly long as he isn't able to find protection for his Inkmoth Nexus that my Qasali Pridemage is threatening. I'm able to get off a Deed and stabilize, eventually I am able to attack + Green Sun's Zenith tutoring for Rhino for the kill and my opponent concedes.
Game Two: My opponent assembles Nexus + Berserk + Invigorate on turn three and I had no instant speed removal for him. Again, I could have played Deed and threatened to blow it for 0 (to kill the Nexus), but I went for the greedier play of Stoneforge searching up Jitte as I felt that an active Jitte could dominate the board. My opponent had Krosan Grip x2 in his hand anyway, so this was ultimately a moot point.
Game Three: My opponent is able to position himself to attack with multiple threats, threatening to pump whoever goes through (Inkmoth Nexus, again) for lethal. I mulliganed to 6 and kept a somewhat uninteractive hand that threatened to go big quickly, but it wasn't enough.
Round 4 vs. Alluren
0-2
Game One: I'm able to resolve Pernicious Deed for four against his active Alluren, leaving my opponent with about 15 creatures in the graveyard and three in hand (Strix + Harpy + Land) and I'm reasonably happy to top-deck Liliana, forcing the discards, but sometimes your opponent just draws Alluren off the top again and kills you.
Game Two: There isn't much to say about this game; he couldn't find the combo and we ended up trading permanents back and forth. I didn't have a Top going compared to his Sylvan Library, which eventually found him the combo while I was stuck drawing Hymns when Green Sun's Zenith, a Threat, or even a Fetch (I had Titania in play) could have won me the game.
So, today I learned:
1. Nic Fit doesn't like to play against Combo - no news there!
2. Dryad Arbor felt mediocre to me. It's possible for it to wear a sword, but I wasn't particularly impressed by it. There were too many situations where a mulligan to six with an Arbor in hand felt awful.
3. I think Thrun + Sigarda may be overkill. I'm going to remove Thrun from the sideboard going forward, at least until I feel like I miss having him around.
4. There were several situations where Meren would have been great - especially against Mud, but also in the grindier games against Infect and Alluren.
5. A third divining top is probably necessary.
6. I liked Phyrexian Tower a fair bit; the acceleration can be really clutch in certain situations and an additional sacrifice outlet is a nice thing to have.
7. Living Wish was great game one but very easy to board out - I'm not sure if I'd continue to run it going forward.
Questions, Comments, or Criticism is always welcome. I hope you guys find this helpful to read.
It's nice to read about NicFit. Thank you for sharing. Tbh i have been on and off all day just to hope someone wrote something in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by gth842s
Your G2 vs reanimate is a very typical error when playing NicFit. Getting greedy will cost you games. Now you learned it the hard way. Play safe and tight. Especially when you know you played against a deck that can (and will) drop you a T1 Griselbrand. Also, this is typically a match-up where Veteran Explorer trigger can backfire. Speeding up this deck is generally a bad idea unless you get to fire off a Slaughter Games or something backbreaking the same turn (unless you know your safe for 1 turn and doing so puts you into a solid spot).
Yeah... That's just poor sequencing. Doing this vs. other decks opens you up to getting blown out by Daze/StP when they counter your Explorer or StP it before you have a Therapy in the yard. Order should always be T1 land + Therapy, T2 land + Explorer (fuck you, Daze), flashback Therapy (fuck you, StP), preventing your opponent from ever having an opening to mess with your explorer. They won't be able to Daze it b/c you've got a 2nd mana and they won't get priority until after you've sacrificed Dora to Therapy.Quote:
Originally Posted by gth842s
Also, it might be nice to post your list so we have some context on why certain things might have happened.
Hi there, Fellow Nic Fit Abzan player,
Been following this thread and i'm going to have this weekend's a legacy tourney, would like some inputs on my list that i tweaked after a great number of games:
Creatures
4-Vet
2-DRshaman
1-Scavenging OOze
1-Qasali pridemage
1-Voice of resurgence
1-Eternal Witness
1-Courser of kruphix
2-Siege Rhino
1-Thrun
1-Thragstusk
1-Sigarda
Spells
4-Cabal Therapy
2-Swords to plowshares
4-Abrupt decay
1-Maelstrom pulsse
3-Pernicious Deed
3-Green Zenith
2-Liliana of the veil
1-Garruk Relentless
3-Sensei's top
3-Forest
3-Swamp
1-Plains
2-Savanah
1-Scrubland
3-Bayou
4-Verdant Catacombs
3-Windswept heath
1-Marsh flats
1-Phyrexian tower
SB:
2-Ethersworn Canonist
1-Gaddock Teeg
3-Thoughtseize
2-Surgical extraction
2-Choke
1-Swords to plowshares
1-Recurring Nightmare
1-Krosan Grip
1-Golgari Sharm
1-Hallowed moonlight
My meta should be (with order of appearences):
Miracles
BG/x other grindy decks
Delver (Bug, Rug, Grixis)
Shardless BUG
Reanimator
Infect
Crippled Death and taxes (probably without Rishadan ports)
Goblins/Merfolk/Burn/Affinity/Dredge
Lands, MUD, Storm and other types of combo decks are almost non existant;
The cards that for me are still in deciding, are, Thrun, Garruk and Voice. I find that they are very good against Miracles, and also good against BG/x and Delver.
Thrun & Thrag should be Rhinoes and Voice should be DRS. Rhino is a cheaper and therefor better Thrag and Thrun gets fucked by Terminus the same way Rhino does, so you might as well enjoy the Rhino's lifedrain/leech. Voice of Resurgence does nothing to further your gameplan and plays very, very poorly with Pernicious Deed.
Also, with Sigarda in your 60, switch a Swamp for a Plains. Getting those with Explorer can be pretty big.
(I'm a newbie with the deck)Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
I was just thinking to acquire a Thrun on MODO since the online meta is absolutely ruined by miracles (and delvers)..at least the Troll doesn't die to swords or JTMS -1, is it not a decent Rhino n. 4? I agree about the Tusk.
4 rhino. 4 gsz. Play path instead of swords. Also vindicate is amazingly better than pulse.
I personally don't like courser in the deck and relentless is not a mb card from my experience.
Cut a fetch for a karakas.
All suggestions. Do what you will.
I have to disagree on Rhinos. I started with 3 and lowered the number.
Thragtusk is way better then Rhino against miracles because it still leaves a token against swords, terminus and jace. The matchup is all about attrition and sticking 1 or 2 creature that pressure them, not about a helix or 2 to the face. From my experience.
Thrun is also better then Rhino against Miracles, since only terminus can deal with it.
Has for voice, i think people underestimate it's value. I have had many games that the token it generates by being killed (and also by our own therapy) or by players playing instants in my turn, is relevant.
Garruk was a sideboard card, but planeswalker's are good against miracles and BG/x. It could possibly be changed to zenith or another lili
Karakas is a welcome addition, and also plains.
I play pulse because of the added protection against pyromancer and because i don't think the land destruction portion of vindicate surpasses the benefit of being able to go 2 for 1. Still i will try it.
Thanks.
4 rhino is why you play the deck. Thrag is good but five is a lot more than four from my experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by mario_dude
I may add a thrun back in considering how good he seems.
Garruk just seems like a dead card in a lot of matchups. Lily is amazing but we get little value off her. If she weren't so expensive I would play some number on mtgo.
I will have to try voice at some point. Seems strong. (33 tix each on mtgo. I will pass)
Vindicate deals with everything. Lands can be problematic such as karakas, depths and stage, etc. I just need versatility as opposed to value most times.
As for pw, my favorites are ajani mentor and lily. (No blue so jtms doesn't count)
Id probably just swap the Voice for a Meren.Quote:
Originally Posted by mario_dude
Tusk and Thrun are fine as those gives you different angles. 2-4 Rhino is choice. I like flexibility over streamlined here and never go higher then 2-3 Rhino's (which is a waste since i hava Japanese signed playset).
If i where to run a combat walker i'd probably go for Elspeth over Garruk R (moving that one to the board). Flying Rhino or Tusk is sooo sweet.
I understand the Lili's.
Recurring Nightmare will probably never be boarded in.
Extirpate might be a good call over SE, due to split second being awesome against Reanimate and Miracles. Maybe even taking out RUG lightning Bolts or shit like that.
And i also miss Karakas.
U don't play white nic fit solely for the Rhino. It's also or so much because of swords, sigarda, added sideboard options. I too feel that diversity is better then streamlined, more so in legacy where u can find so many diferent matchups, and in a deck u have a tutor effect like zenith.
Recurring is there for the grindy matchups, like against miracles, BGx, and Shardless. Sure u have to set it up against opposing DRS, but after a deed it's awesome to go vet + recurring.
It also can come down to Meren or other card that ensures Card Advantage over time. But Meren feels alot more fragile in those matchups.
Extirpate is cool, but sometimes u need to pay 0. It probably evens out on
The added versatility in vindicate is the Land destruction clause. If i had Lands in my meta i could see go vindicate route, likewise i'm sticking with pulse. Last night i got several 2 for 1's, (2x DRS one game, 2 Goyfs the other :)
Since i dont see (or few) stuff like Storm, Tin Fins or (manaless) Dredge, Extirpate would be the better call. Your "problematic" matchups are not fast (expect Reanimate, but when they go T0 Griselbrand they deserve to win) and all run countermagic (except the one Dredge). Hitting discard on stuff like StP/SDT into Extirpate is pretty solid against Miracles. All in all i think that Split Second is more relevant then 0 mana in your meta. Currently i pack SE just because i have a LOT of storm in my meta and typically tap out and play aggressive vs them, otherwise i would run Extirpate for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by mario_dude