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Is the traditional Ur dead? I love having REB in the board, but I haven't seen any up-to-date lists that don't run some sort of combination of W/B/G. If someone could provide me with one that would be much appreciated :)
Also, how do people feel with standstill? From my own experience it seems to be under performing in the current meta - any recommendations for replacement or reasons why it should stay?
Reasons to stay: Good with Counterbalance (increases your two drops), it being blue means it pitches to Force of Will.
Reasons to go: Very conditional, and I haven't been getting my money's worth out of them so far. I board them out quite often.
I'm still running UBr, with Black for Confidants. I don't think I would go back to not playing Confidants, I like to play with more cards than my opponent. I'm toying around with this list, although I'm saddened with the dropping of Standstill, but I've changed it around to include stuff I wanted very often (like 2EE):
4 Wasteland
4 Factory
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Dark Confidant
2 Trinket Mage
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Snare
2 Daze
3 Top
3 CB
2 EE
2 Jace
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
4 Brainstorm
Board:
3 Firespout
3 REB
3 Spell Pierce
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Open
---
The red could easily be switched for white for Swords and Peacekeeper slots, but I'm having a decent time with this. I always wanted more EE in many matchups, and had no recursion for the one I used. I figured Jace is alright, so I threw in two :cool:
-Matt
You guys are crazy for cutting Standstills. My last tournament I went to Countertop was such a huge part of the meta. Standstill is the ace in the hole in that matchup, resolve it and they pretty much have to get slain by it. I guess I find it alot more helpful but I agree Confidant is a solid addition.
We have a core of 8-10 Legacy players, and 4-5 play Tribal. Standstill is not treating me well. Another 4 also have White Stax. Again, screwed up meta, but point being, Standstill has been good at times, don't get me wrong. But, as of late, it's not doing me as much good as it used to.
Is the list you're running Rodney still the one you used at SCG?
-Matt
I definitely agree with Standstill being required for this deck. Though I am questioning the traditional and accepted 3x Spell Pierces in everyone's sideboard. It seems to me that they are boarded in mostly against blue control (we have Crucible in the side or REBs for that) or against combo (our deck already KILLS combo).
Why the spell pierces? The slots could be used on other valuable cards such as Firespout, BEB, REB, Perish, Needle, EE, etc
What is your current list?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roodmistah
I was playing 4 Pierce in the main instead of 4 Snare for the longest time, as I was playing a lot against Thopters and Stax, and they were boss. Now, it's more aggro, so killing their Piledriver/Warren Weirding/Diabolic Edict/Coralhelm/Pridemage etc. can be good.
-Matt
They're good against landstill, counterbalance, combo, stax, dragon stompy, MUD, and enchantress. It's only 3 board spots. Usually there's enough room for the cards you mentioned, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by yutang
My SB is usually something like this:
4-7 Anti Tribal (Firespout, Peacekeeper, Engineered Plague, Grim Lavamancer)
0-3 Spot Removal (Swords to Plowshares, Lightning Bolt, Ghastly Demise)
2 Anti Goyf/KotR/Progenitus (Perish, Hibernation)
3 Anti Control (Spell Pierce, REB, Krosan Grip)
3 Utility (Pithing Needle, EE, Relic of Prog)
Death/Green and Taxes matchup has been extremely problematic and I'm not sure what strategy to go against them and what to side in (for my Ubr variant)
Any suggestions?
I've been keeping a tight lid on my latest build, but I need some help. Just any general thoughts, questions, concerns, etc would be extremely helpful.
Enchantment (6)
3x Counterbalance
3x Standstill
Land (21)
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Flooded Strand
1x Arid Mesa
1x Misty Rainforest
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Mountain
1x Volcanic Island
1x Tropical Island
1x Tundra
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Wasteland
Instant (21)
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
2x Vision Charm
2x Trickbind
2x Spell Snare
4x Stifle
Artifact (5)
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Pithing Needle
1x Crucible of Worlds
2x Sensei's Divining Top
Creature (7)
3x Trinket Mage
4x Phyrexian Dreadnought
Sideboard
1x Engineered Explosives
3x Firespout
2x Krosan Grip
2x Peacekeeper
3x Pyroblast
2x Spell Pierce
2x Tormod's Crypt
Probably going to pull 1 land for another Trickbind. Other than that I'm not sure. Fish is still a TERRIBLE MU for me.
...and will continue to be so with standstills
shouldnt you own face with peacekeeper? might want to have 1 more in board btw
If I stick a Peacekeeper, I will usually win. That is about the only time I will win though. Threads of Disloyalty and Gilded Drake are also a real beating. I'm wondering if the white is even necessary anymore. The meta seems to be shifting a bit towards combo which makes cards like Spell Pierce and Daze better than Swords. If this combo shift continues, I could see Bob being really great in this deck too.
There are a lot of times I feel the deck is lacking in counter magic. It may just be bad luck as I haven't seen a Counterbalance in weeks, but I've not been pleased with how little has been drawn (though, this may have to do with the majority of my testing being against Fish which plays around Standstill better than I). I've also heard of some lists running AEther Vial. What is the general opinion of that?
You mean dreadstill running AEther vial? thats not possible
Your problem is standstill; its a huge liability in any vial match up and arguably even more so in the merfolk MU, since they run manlands. I quit playing standstills way back and replaced them with confidants and the advantages are numerous: No mishra's, additional bait for swords (confidant). Mostly, the pros and cons with standstill has been debated earlier in this thread in the predict vs standstill discussion. Confidant is probably better than both.
Creature aggro and tribal is fairly common in my meta though, hence why I also run 4 plows main, and also testing 2 propaganda in SB (which has, thus far, been promising in the MUD match up as well, unexpectedly)
EDIT: judging from what you've said, you should probably run another peacekeeper if you say you have problems with fish, yet wins when you land it. 2 is a fairly low number, especially since you need it fast and need to have another one in backup preferably if the first one gets countered.
I remember back in the day against High Tide, didn't people play Sirocco?
I'm just wondering, since it'd give the red builds more of an up. As well, with Emrakul being playing more, maybe Gilded Drake/Sower might be useful?
-Matt
It was good against Solidarity, but the new decks tend to play so many sorceries that it wont neccessarily crush them, like it completely crushes the solidarity player.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
In all seriousness, Rodney doesn't change his list... it is no more than five cards different than it was when he made the deck back in the beginning of 2007...Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Don't play Vision charm it is a terrible card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beware
In other news, this is the list I have been playing as of late in an attempt to combat the giant shifts in the meta:
Lands:21
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
4 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
Creatures:9
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Dark Confidant
2 Trinket Mage
Noncreature Spells:30
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
3 Spell Snare
3 Daze
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Standstill
2 Trickbind
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
Sideboard:15
3 Deathmark/Perish
2 Sower of Temptation
2 Spell Pierce
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Submerge/Perish/Deathmark
1 Llawan Cephalid Empress
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Nihil Spellbomb
I have a new list, but it's dropped Standstill (shock and awe!). But, it has a bit more Countermagic, Gilded Drake, and some other goodies. Point being, it's more useful in a meta with Emrakul being here and there, as well as Progenitus.
-Matt
@J.V. Why Deathmark instead of Perish? Natural Order/Progenitus and Elves are more popular than ever. It was MVP in my sideboard last tournament and I'm trying to squeeze in a 3rd.
Perish has been pretty hot for me. If you're in White, Tariff might not be terrible since Perish doesn't hit Emrakul (huzzah for finding Anti-Reanimator tech from almost a year ago :P).
-Matt
I've been going back and forth between them, I like that Deathmark plays nicer with Bob and that I can use it to shot off acceleration like dryad arbors and Nobel Hierarchs immediately, on the other hand Perish makes counterbalance stronger and can wipe the board. Honestly I'm still testing it, It could very well end as some kind of 2/2-3/2 split depending on how my testing goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by keys