[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

I've been testing a pod list for about a year or 2 (in addition to my standard GB) and have loved to pod my rector into recurring nightmare+thragtusk. It's usually my main wincon (unless i need to recur bone shredder to kill a bunch of annoying stuff, oh how I love you bone shredder!).

Now that deathrite exists, I was curious about everyone's opinion on adding Primeval Bounty as a secondary rector target. At the moment I have 1 Primeval Bounty, 1 Recurring Nightmare, 1 Pernicious Deed as targets. Bounty has been performing extremely well for me and is actually quite similar to thragtusk in the sense that it easily makes tokens and gains absurd amounts of life (especially with fetches). It also boosts explorers/deathrites to 4/4s. Graveyard hate as always been extremely effective vs me (strangleroot geist, reveillark, eternal witness, recurring nightmare, volrath's stronghold). I wanted to tone down on the graveyard strategy a bit, although I love how strangleroot geist puts pressure on planeswalkers whereas something like wall of blossoms doesn't. I also try to keep the "do nothing" creatures to a minimum which is why I like shriekmaw and boneshredder as they double as removal spells.

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Originally Posted by Blastoderm

I've been testing a pod list for about a year or 2 (in addition to my standard GB) and have loved to pod my rector into recurring nightmare+thragtusk. It's usually my main wincon (unless i need to recur bone shredder to kill a bunch of annoying stuff, oh how I love you bone shredder!).

Now that deathrite exists, I was curious about everyone's opinion on adding Primeval Bounty as a secondary rector target. At the moment I have 1 Primeval Bounty, 1 Recurring Nightmare, 1 Pernicious Deed as targets. Bounty has been performing extremely well for me and is actually quite similar to thragtusk in the sense that it easily makes tokens and gains absurd amounts of life (especially with fetches). It also boosts explorers/deathrites to 4/4s. Graveyard hate as always been extremely effective vs me (strangleroot geist, reveillark, eternal witness, recurring nightmare, volrath's stronghold). I wanted to tone down on the graveyard strategy a bit, although I love how strangleroot geist puts pressure on planeswalkers whereas something like wall of blossoms doesn't. I also try to keep the "do nothing" creatures to a minimum which is why I like shriekmaw and boneshredder as they double as removal spells.

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When I was running rector, I had faith's fetters in the main (as suggested per here) and then one O-ring in the board for various match ups.

I don't have my notes with me, so I'm gonna make this pretty quick. I actually took better notes for this event, and am trying to improve my ability to retain details like what I take with Therapy and such, so I can evaluate if I'm making the correct calls there.

Anyway, I'm going to update the list in my sig to the latest edition of Scape, but basically my list was exactly as I've had it lately, with the changes I suggested after Baltimore. I moved the 2 Rakdos's Returns to the maindeck, and opted for a 3 Thoughtseize / 3 Slaughter Games / 2 Golgari Charm sideboard (along with the usual wishboard).

I also made one other change. I finally bit the bullet and put two fetchlands in the deck (1 Verdant 1 Foothills), cutting 1 Bayou 1 Forest for them.

Round 1: UWR Delver

Let me start by noting that this deck is really, really scary. I'd never actually played against it before, although I was, of course, aware of its existence.

Well, I had a 40 minute game one against this guy. I don't remember all of the details....suffice that I needed a separate sheet of paper when we eventually did move on to game two. He got me realllllllllllly low early on with a Batterskull + SFM beatdown. I finally stabilized at 3 life after Deeding away his Germ. I then Wish->Pulse, Pulse his Skull, forcing him to bounce it, and then Therapy it away. Nice 1-for-3, but I NEEDED to get rid of it. We both proceeded to flood out for a while, until he drew a Delver and played it. Now, I'm at 3. I have 7 lands in play, and he's at 38, with a few wastelands having hit mountains. I've had a Top running for most of the game, and my only card in hand is Scapeshift (the top of my deck is useless). I make the decision to Scapeshift rather than try to sandbag and pray that his Delver doesn't flip. Valakut kills the Delver, and puts him back down to a reasonable amount of life. After a couple turns, I finally land a Huntmaster (note that by this point 2 of my Green Suns had been countered), and go back to out-of-one-bolt-range. He hits it with a Swords, which gets me a bit more life. I then begin a parade of Thragtusks which slowly reverse the life totals until he finally succumbs. I had to use my remaining mountains as removal spells for his Grim Lavamancers, which was slightly awkward.....I had I think 1 mountain left in my deck by the end of this monster of a game.

Game 2 we played pretty expediently. He had a slower hand with a lot of power, if I recall correctly. I sandbagged a Therapy for his Stoneforge, and nabbed his Jitte, then hit his Geist of St Traft on flashback (again, I think). I had a lot of ramp, a Deed, and some dudes. I stabilize and then Shift him out on t5 of turns to go 2-0.

Round 2: Burn

I drew the half of my deck that included numerous Huntmasters and Thragtusks, and I had a t1 Veteran both games to block his Goblin Guide. He also opted not to get lands from Explorer for some reason, although I sincerely doubt it would have mattered in the slightest with how my deck was drawing. This whole round took ~10 minutes.

Round 3: UWR Delver (again)

My opponent led off with Volc+Delver, and proceeded to have a mix of cards that made me think RUG Delver. Eventually he ended up fetching a Tundra, and the mystery was revealed. I don't remember exactly what happened, but I'm pretty sure that I lost this game.

I also don't remember much of game two, but I think that was the game that I won. I have a dim recollection of ripping his hand apart with Therapy and then Shifting at some point. Game 3 he mulled to 5, and....yeah. It wasn't good for him.

He'd made a comment between games while boarding about the new Spike Feeder/Thune lists with Recurring Nightmare, which he really liked. This told me that he was a Sourcer, because nobody else would even be aware of that -- sure enough, he's on this site (River Boa). I opted not to introduce myself until after the match, though -- I'm pretty open about posting my decklists on here, and I didn't want him having perfect information on my full decklist, lol.

Round 4: MUD (...)

Annnnnnnnnd now the wheels fall off. I was playing Joe Marucci, who is a friend of mine, and I knew going into it that he was going to be on MUD. He didn't think that it was that bad of a matchup, and felt it was more like a coin flip. As it turns out, I should have won the match, but I threw it away.

I win the die roll, and lead off with an Explorer. He drops a t1 Chalice for 1, which shuts down a Top, and nothing else. I Zenith up a 2nd Explorer, and ship it back. He tanks, counts, and drops a Metalworker. I swing with my Explorers, and he makes the unexpected play of blocking one of them with his Metalworker (there is a reason for this). Now, here I throw the game. I had a Huntmaster and a Burning Wish in hand (and some other junk). If I fetched intelligently with my Explorer, I could have gotten a 2nd Mountain, which would have allowed me to Burning Wish for Pyroclasm, killing my 2nd Explorer and his Metalworker, which he was still on one land (he used Grim Monolith to play Metalworker). Instead, like a complete idiot, I default to my traditional Forest/Swamp fetch, and play Huntmaster, thinking that I can flip him next turn to kill the Metalworker.

Next turn he makes 8 with Metalworker, showing me a Sundering Titan in the process, which gets played and nukes 3 of my lands (this would be why he blocked with the Metalworker earlier). Soon Lightning Greaves and Welder join the party, which flickers Sundering Titan and I get bombed into the stone age.

Game two he mulls to 6, and I tear his hand apart with discard, as Thoughtseize + Therapy do some serious work. He never does anything of significance this game.

Game three, I keep a hand that, in retrospect, I've decided was bad. At the time it seemed like it was okay -- it had two lands, Thoughtseize, Deed, Scapeshift, and some other junk. It was a slow hand, to be sure, but it had disruption + artifact destruction + the win, so it seeeeeeeeeeeeeemed okay. Pretty sure it was actually a trap, though, and I needed to mull to look for something more explosive. He leads off Great Furnace + Goblin Welder, and passes it back. I Thoughtseize him, and get BLOWN OUT. His hand is 3 lands, Wurmcoil Engine, and Forgemaster. Tallying things up, I decide that the Forgemaster is less likely to be damaging (he doesn't have the necessary artifacts to use it, and he does have the mana to cast Forgemaster but not Wurmcoil), so I opt for that as the lesser of two evils. I never draw a land, and he comes online about 2-3 turns later, and I die.

Round 5: Goblins

He does some fairly typical Goblins stuff. I'm on 5 lands, and he's dead to the Shift in-hand if I get the lands. His board is Warchief + Piledriver (I already Pryoclasmed earlier in the game, taking out a huge chunk). I'm at like 12. I decide to Wish->Reanimate my Veteran, so I can kill him next turn, which is, you know, a fine / correct line on my end. He blows me out with a MAINDECK Surgical Extraction in resp to the Reanimate. He then proceeds to play another Piledriver and another goblin of some variety, and I die.

Game two I'm under basically no pressure, and I Shift pretty easily, while blocking him with ramp creatures on the way. At one point he stops me as I pass priority into mainphase 1. My only card in graveyard is a Tribe-Elder, and I have a Vet in play. I'm curious, and wonder what he's up to while he tanks. He lets me continue, though, and I just kind of /shrug and figure it's probably a Surgical. I found out later that it was in fact a Surgical, and he was thinking about using it to nuke my Tribe-Elders, but mostly to get information on my hand. Awkwardly, I had the other Tribe-Elder in my hand at the time, so if he had done it, it would have hurt. He agreed afterwards that had he known there were only two Tribe-Elders in my deck he wouldn't have considered it, and noted that he probably should've looked at that more closely when he surigcal'd my Explorers game one.

Game three he mulls to 4, I mull to 5. As I joked with one of my friends / my opponent after a few turns, you really wouldn't have known it. I had a strong five featuring a t2 Explorer into more ramp, and he had a strong four with a Vial, t2 Lackey, and a few lands. My Explorer and his Lackey just kind of stared at each other for a while, as we each built up board state. I'm ramping and ramping, but I'm not drawing anything useful. he draws 5 off of a pair of topdecked Ringleaders, and starts making a scary board. My own board isn't a pushover, though, as I've got a Huntmaster (which flipped to kill a Piledriver), a Thrag, some errant ramp dudes, and a couple wolves. Eventually he hits some spice, and uses a Goblin Diplomats to force my board to attack. He then drops two more Piledrivers and a Legion Loyalist, and one-shots me from the mid-30s. I never saw a Burning Wish, a Deed, a Golgari Charm, a Scapeshift, or a Top, which totals 14 cards of my deck. Considering how many lands I had out and everything else, I think I had about a 1/3 chance to draw business at any point that game....just never happened. Really disappointing.

Round 6: Merfolks

I'd been warned ahead of time by a friend that she was playing Fish. My friend did not tell me, though, that she was playing Stifle in it, as she had TRIPLE Stifle game 1. She Stifled a Tribe-Elder, Forced a Wood Elves, and Stifled a Pernicious Deed (I therapied the 3rd out of her hand when she derped and tried to Stifle something she couldn't). She had a very low clock, with just a Mutavault and a Lord of Atlantis. Luckily, though, I drew 1 non-land card the entire game, over about 7 turns. Seems real.

Game two she made a bunch of fish while I drew nothing but discard. Unfortunately, I didn't really have anything to board in. I'd usually leave in ~2 Therapies for the matchup, for counters at important junctures / free hits via Silvergill / hitting Lords or Vial if t1 on the play, but I also used to have Red Blasts in my sideboard to then bring in. Ultimately, this was another case of my deck just not drawing well.

Round 7: TES

At this point I'm pretty depressed after going 3-0 ---> 0-3, but I'm determined to not drop on the sour note of losing to back-to-back tribal decks because my deck has its head up its ass. My opponent leads off with a Probe into a Therapy. I'd kept a Veteran/Wish/Huntmaster/lands hand, and I got Tendrils'd for a sufficiently large amount on turn 2.

I actually felt pretty confidant going into game 2, since my list is much better equipped to fight TES than it used to be.

My hand in g2 was maybe a bit of a trap. I'm actually still undecided on it. It was as follows:

Therapy, Therapy, Zenith, Rakdos Return, Deed, Scapeshift, Wooded Foothills.

Obviously, this hand is the stone nuts with one more land. With one more land, you can triple Therapy into Return for whatever's left, you can Deed away Goblins or errant moxen/LEDs, and you have the kill already in hand. I ended up keeping it.

I wish I had my notes now, because this was actually a really interesting sequence. I Therapied blind, hitting an LED. He had....Dark Rit, Ad Naus, Brainstorm, Chrome Mox, Infernal Tutor, and Burning Wish, I think. Without the LED, his hand is basically unkeepable. He draws a Gemstone Mine, and plays it, then ships back. I brick my draw, and Therapy him. He Brainstorms in response. He's obviously going to hide the Ad Nauseum, so that isn't even a concern. I decide that he's choked on mana, and guess that he probably hid either Chrome Mox or Dark Ritual. I want to name whichever one he didn't hide. I decide to call Dark Ritual, and that was the second card he hid. He gained a Silence, another Brainstorm, and....a City of Brass. He plays the City and ships back, Silencing me on upkeep. I drew the land, and played it, but was forced to sit there. He couldn't go off yet either, so he was forced to send it back to me. I Zenithed up Explorer and fired off a Therapy, which he allowed to resolve.

I now realize that I missed something in my recollection, because his hand on this Therapy was impenetrable. My sequencing is off, even if all the parts are there. Anyway, what happened here is that he allowed Therapy to resolve (must've been on the flashback I guess), and his hand was thus:

Brainstorm
Probe
Infernal Tutor
Burning Wish
Chrome Mox
[card]?

I know from his Brainstorm that he hid Dark Ritual and Ad Naus on top of his deck, which is why I know that my sequencing in the above paragraph is wrong. His line here is to use Probe to draw Ad Nauseum, Chrome imprinting X, tap Chrome to dark Ritual, land, land, Ad Naus, win. I realize that he has a backup plan whereby he can just EoT Brainstorm to assemble the pieces, as well. Alternatively, I could take the Chrome Mox and try to brick him on mana, but he's going to get 3 cards deeper, which means he could hit another land / another Ritual to go off. Neither the Tutor nor the Wish is an option here, IMO. I ended up opting for the Gitaxian Probe. My reasoning was that I wanted him to not have perfect information -- I was still sandbagging Deed, and I wanted him to think that going Goblins was safe if he didn't draw into enough for Tendrils. I also wanted him running scared of Mindbreak Trap (even though I wasn't running it).

He EoT Brainstormed and proceeded to casually go off on his next turn, as he hit a 2nd Dark Ritual the 3rd card down.

The more I turn this sequence over in my head, the more I think that taking the Chrome Mox was correct. It's a total gamble -- he can Probe + Brainstorm to get 3 cards deeper, which means he's more likely to find the mana he needs -- but he might also brick. Taking Probe screwed up his stack and forced him to EoT Brainstorm to be able to go off, and it kept him from having information, but Storm players tend to just go balls deep vs Nic Fit anyway -- if they draw it, they jam it, basically. Taking the Brainstorm, of course, does nothing for me -- he still has his Probe stack -and- he still has the mana to Ad Naus. But yeah. Even if I'd gambled and hit the Chrome Mox and he HADN'T gotten there with his +3 draws, it wouldn't have mattered. My Rakdos Return would have only been for 3 (4 if I'd drawn a land), and he could've just kept Dark Ritual + Ad Nauseum as his two cards left in hand and proceeded to storm off from there. Bricking my second land drop (and his subsequent Silence) were what killed me. But, that was the risk I accepted when I decided to keep that hand. In an alternate universe I got there, tore his hand to shreds and then Shifted. And then probably died game three anyway.

Still, it was a sufficiently interesting game that, while still somewhat depressed, I was able to drop with a clean conscience.

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Summary of changes:

I never resolved a Rakdos's Return that was useful on the day. I used it just as an X spell against UWR in the 4-minute slugfest round 1, but we were both so far on topdeck mode at that point that it was literally just an X spell (which is still reasonable at that point in the game). I have an uncomfortable feeling that the problem therein is that Rakdos's Return was innovated too late in the metagame, which has now shifted hardcore (more later on this).

I obviously missed Red Elemental Blast, mostly because of the 2x Delver decks (which I beat without it, but it would have been much, much easier with it) and because of the Merfolk deck.

The fetchlands were fantastic, both as fixers and as extra shuffles. That being said, I don't think I can realistically squeeze any more in. I'm still unwilling to go below 12 mountains, as there were a few times on the day where the game was late enough / enough of my mountains had been Wasted that I was cutting my mountain count pretty close. Also, with the resurgence of Stifle, adding more than 2 fetchlands into the deck is not really where I want to be.

I'm pretty happy with the list overall, although I'm going to make a few changes (as usual). These changes are based on metagame.

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The metagame is shifting back towards tempo and combo, pretty hard. UWR Delver was EVERYWHERE, and while I suspect some of that to be a regional thing (Erik Smith popularized the deck and is from New Jersey, which is, of course, close to Philly), I also saw a lot of RUG and even a few BUGs -- and I expect more people to adopt UWR Delver, because that deck is very, very real. That room was crawling with Stifles. There was also a lot of combo, but no one form of combo was really pulling ahead of the others. There was dredge, reanimator, some Show and Tell, storm, Painter, Elves, and a few other more obscure things.

So, if we're moving back towards a tempo/combo dichotomy, that strongly suggests that trimming Rakdos's Return and re-introducing Red Elemental Blasts is a good idea. Rakdos's Return, I think, is going to suffer the unfortunate problem of being innovated at the wrong time. They should have been maindeck for Baltimore -- they would've been fine there. Baltimore was, I think, the tail end of the Shardless/Blade dominated control meta, which is where Return is at its strongest.

Since I'm never happy with those last two slots in my maindeck, I'm going to resign myself to henceforth considering them to be just flex spots depending on the meta. If a heavy control meta, Rakdos's Return. If a heavy aggro meta, -probably- Bonfires. If a heavy tempo meta, Abrupt Decays. If a heavy combo meta, Thoughtseizes.

Moving forward, this will be my list:

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Wood Elves
1 Eternal Witness
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Burning Wish
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Scapeshift

3 Pernicious Deed

3 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Abrupt Decay [/Thoughtseize/Bonfire/Rakdos's -- but going to go with decays for now]

4 Taiga
2 Stomping Ground
3 Badlands
3 Mountain
2 Bayou
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

//SB
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Thoughtseize
2 Slaughter Games
2 Golgari Charm
1 Scapeshift
1 Reanimate
1 Virtue's Ruin
1 Pyroclasm
1 Reverent Silence
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse

The wishboard is actually still really solid. I rarely "wish" (hah) that I had something else present in my wishboard. Reverent Silence and Virtue's Ruin are both super narrow -- Ruin is only really for Teeg decks, Death and Taxes, and Progenituses; while Reverent Silence is your out to Leyline of Sanctity. The other 5 slots all get used quite regularly, though, and those two answers, narrow though they may be, are the best at what they do -- I consider them necessary evils.

If in the anti-combo configuration with the 2 Thoughtseizes maindeck, I'm not sure whether or not I would keep the 2 Thoughtseizes in the sideboard (enabling a full set post-board), or whether there might be something better.

I will note that every time I look at Golgari Charm lately, I'm just really annoyed that it's "destroy target enchantment," not "destroy target artifact." Unfortunately, Rakdos Charm's "sweep" effect isn't actually good enough against the swarm decks -- even if Elves / Gobs has like 10-odd creatures in play, Rakdos Charm isn't going to do enough damage to make it worthwhile, even if Rakdos Charm's other two modes are better (destroy artifact, exile a graveyard). Elves may be a bit better with the changes, to where Golgari Charm is no longer needed as a back-up sweeper -- or, perhaps the enchantment kill is sufficiently irrelevant now that those two slots might be better served as some other sweeper that is more effective against a wider range of decks. Not sure.

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I'll close by noting that this was my last event with Scapewish for a little while. I'm going to take a break from it for a bit, and really buckle down on Thune, Wizardblade, and UB Tezz. My article for Mythic this week will be on the process of iterating and upgrading Thune, and where I'm at with it at the moment -- so look forward to that.

It sucks for you didn't finish great, but on the bright side losing almost always provides more learning opportunity for yourself, and for us readers, so thanks for sharing!


I probably would have called the judge on that goblins deck with MD surgicals. That sounds like he didnt deside them to me, but I obviously didnt get the see the guys reaction/explanation.

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My hand in g2 was maybe a bit of a trap. I'm actually still undecided on it. It was as follows:

Therapy, Therapy, Zenith, Rakdos Return, Deed, Scapeshift, Wooded Foothills.

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I would have kept that hand in a heartbeat against TES. Double therapy and black source is going to be better than the vast majority of hands you will see mulling. Your odds of drawing a land or explorer are actually almost 50% per card you draw (22lands + 4explorers left in deck of 53 cards).

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I never resolved a Rakdos's Return that was useful on the day. I used it just as an X spell against UWR in the 4-minute slugfest round 1, but we were both so far on topdeck mode at that point that it was literally just an X spell (which is still reasonable at that point in the game). I have an uncomfortable feeling that the problem therein is that Rakdos's Return was innovated too late in the metagame, which has now shifted hardcore (more later on this).

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I've always liked abrupt decay in that slot. 90% of the games I draw it, I get to cast it, and does something relevant The problem with things like Rakdos return, avenger of zendikar, 3rd HM, etc, is that the vast majority of the time, they are just going to sit your hand forever, get discarded, or get countered. Abrupt decay almost always can do something. I even won a G1 game against TES because of it. TES (correctly) plays out there mana artifacts to avoid our discard making them decay targets.

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The fetchlands were fantastic, both as fixers and as extra shuffles. That being said, I don't think I can realistically squeeze any more in. I'm still unwilling to go below 12 mountains, as there were a few times on the day where the game was late enough / enough of my mountains had been Wasted that I was cutting my mountain count pretty close. Also, with the resurgence of Stifle, adding more than 2 fetchlands into the deck is not really where I want to be.

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Glad you gave the fetches a chance. I think you can cut a mountain though. Think about it. Whats going to be better most the time? A stomping ground or verdant catacomb. I'd say probably 95% of the time catacomb is better (stifle providing a generous 5%). How often do you lose the whole game because you needed that extra mountain somewhere in your deck? I can tell you I have lost 1 in probably 300+ games (If I count both tournements and testing). That's .3%.

Even if from some reason you have 8 mountains out, you can still scapeshift for 3 mountains 2 valakuts, only sacing 5 lands and deal 18 damage, which is almost always enough.

Even if you play 5 mountains and get 4 of them wastlanded, you can still scapeshift for 18 with 7 lands, or 36 with 8 lands.

99.5% of your games you will not notice not having a 12th mountain in your deck, but almost every single time you see that 1 fetch it will be significantly better than a stomping ground.


I've been testing this board lately and really liking it:
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Golgari Charm/Surgical extraction
3 Thoughtseize
1 Slaughter Games
1 Scapeshift
1 Reanimate
1 Perish
1 Pyroclasm
1 Reverent Silence
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse


The 3 thoughtseizes have been really nice, you can board in 2-3 against all forms of combo, and its always useful.

REB I only really find myself bringing in against show and tell decks.

Surgical vs golgari charm is a meta call. Ive been seeing more reanimator/dredge decks lately, and less tribal so Ive been leaning towards surgical.

Perish over Virtue's ruin. Ive never lost to D&T with scapewish. I have lost to maverick many a times though. I have never found myself wanting vertues ruin really. Perish has been great for me against elves and goyf decks too. Against elves, you board in pyroclasm so you can have turn 2 interaction if needed and can turn 2 wish for the turn 3 perish if thats the best you can do.



I haven't played scapewish in a tournament in a little while, but I think I will play it at Mythics legacy event this week. I'm still undecided between that, deathblade, and actually kevin, your wizardblade list. But I am leaning towards scape, and I think I'll play my usual maindeck with that SB.

I think I'm going to run Pulse instead of Decay in P-Fire because Batterskull. It's almost to the point where I have to make them discard Batterskull because it just eats up so many resources and - more importantly - time in the round to get rid of him. Any other P-Fire players have similar issues?

(It feels wrong to go back to Pulse when Decay is so good, but there's no Counterbalance left in my meta, it's almost all fair decks. Next Friday, I think I'm going to run 2 Pulse and 1 Abrupt Decay - the opposite of what I've been running, 2 Decay and 1 Pulse.)

An aside: I got a chance to run Golgari Charm for the first time this week. Total all-star. If only it hit artifacts too!

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Originally Posted by guelahpapyrus

I think I'm going to run Pulse instead of Decay in P-Fire because Batterskull. It's almost to the point where I have to make them discard Batterskull because it just eats up so many resources and - more importantly - time in the round to get rid of him. Any other P-Fire players have similar issues?

(It feels wrong to go back to Pulse when Decay is so good, but there's no Counterbalance left in my meta, it's almost all fair decks. Next Friday, I think I'm going to run 2 Pulse and 1 Abrupt Decay - the opposite of what I've been running, 2 Decay and 1 Pulse.)

An aside: I got a chance to run Golgari Charm for the first time this week. Total all-star. If only it hit artifacts too!

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The list in my signature is a little out of date (I'll post my updated list soon) but I'm still rocking Pulse. However it's certainly not necessary to beat a Batterskull. There's rarely a time when I can't take care of it with P-Fires (lifelink triggers P-Fire too). Then they have to spend all their resources bouncing and recasting (Stoneforge should be dead already). And at that point they can't keep up with our threats.

Yeah, Batterskull should not be a problem. First of all you have Therapy, and then you have Punishing Fire for the Stoneforge Mystic. But even if they can avoid both (which isn't likely unless they are willing to spend a FoW on half a card) Batterskull is not a big threat. Even if you can't actually kill it you have enough stuff to make it not do much or cost them to much mana. Then eventually Titan will go over the top.

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Originally Posted by Blastoderm

I've been testing a pod list for about a year or 2 (in addition to my standard GB) and have loved to pod my rector into recurring nightmare+thragtusk. It's usually my main wincon (unless i need to recur bone shredder to kill a bunch of annoying stuff, oh how I love you bone shredder!).

Now that deathrite exists, I was curious about everyone's opinion on adding Primeval Bounty as a secondary rector target. At the moment I have 1 Primeval Bounty, 1 Recurring Nightmare, 1 Pernicious Deed as targets. Bounty has been performing extremely well for me and is actually quite similar to thragtusk in the sense that it easily makes tokens and gains absurd amounts of life (especially with fetches). It also boosts explorers/deathrites to 4/4s. Graveyard hate as always been extremely effective vs me (strangleroot geist, reveillark, eternal witness, recurring nightmare, volrath's stronghold). I wanted to tone down on the graveyard strategy a bit, although I love how strangleroot geist puts pressure on planeswalkers whereas something like wall of blossoms doesn't. I also try to keep the "do nothing" creatures to a minimum which is why I like shriekmaw and boneshredder as they double as removal spells.

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Post a list, that makes things easier.

Primeval Bounty is extremely powerful. If you want another big Rector effect for your deck, Bounty is the right card.

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Originally Posted by Tao

Yeah, Batterskull should not be a problem. First of all you have Therapy, and then you have Punishing Fire for the Stoneforge Mystic. But even if they can avoid both (which isn't likely unless they are willing to spend a FoW on half a card) Batterskull is not a big threat. Even if you can't actually kill it you have enough stuff to make it not do much or cost them to much mana. Then eventually Titan will go over the top.




Post a list, that makes things easier.

Primeval Bounty is extremely powerful. If you want another big Rector effect for your deck, Bounty is the right card.

---

Sure here's my list.

Creatures (20)
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Strangleroot geist
2 Eternal witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Bone Shredder
1 Academy Rector
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Deranged Hermit
1 Thragtusk
1 Shriekmaw

Spells (19)
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Birthing Pod
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Primeval Bounty
1 Pernicious Deed

Lands (21)

4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh flats
4 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower

Would wall of blossoms be good here? Do I have enough creatures?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blastoderm

Sure here's my list.

Creatures (20)
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Strangleroot geist
2 Eternal witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Bone Shredder
1 Academy Rector
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Deranged Hermit
1 Thragtusk
1 Shriekmaw

Spells (19)
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Birthing Pod
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Primeval Bounty
1 Pernicious Deed

Lands (21)

4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh flats
4 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower

Would wall of blossoms be good here? Do I have enough creatures?

---

I think you want more 2 drops and less deathrites. Wall of Blossoms is a good fit. Voice is meh is this type of pod list. Maybe a one of stoneforge?
Also, I think the land base could be better. 9 fetches is a lot. I ran 6 when I was playing rector (3 heath, 3 catacombs)

/barn@Stoneforge. I put a 1-of Stoneforge into Thune (and moved the forever-sideboarded Batterskull main for her) and she's been incredibly solid in testing.

- SFM in Pod lists is that it did't work that well for me either. She is 2 more 1-offs in a deck that tends to play too many 1-offs, one of them a 5-drop that can't be Podded in a deck that tends to have a too high curve. I won't fault anyone for playing her, but I understand the choice of Strangleroot Geist.

- I think that your deck needs a Primeval Titan, to go over the top of Jund and BUG. It can't be right to play 12 ramp cards (DRS, Explorer, GSZ), and an X-spell (GSZ) and then not do something broken with that X-Spell.

These would be the changes from the top of my head.

- 1 Fetch
- 1 DRS
- 1 Wickerbough Elder
- 1 Deranged Hermit
- 1 Shriekmaw
+ 1 Murderous Redcap
+ 1 Acidic Slime
+ 1 Primeval Titan
+ 1 Volrath's Stronghold
+ 1 Vault of the Archangel

Im playing a BGw Pod list too. Still on testing, but I really like how it has been working.

Pod Rock

Creatures [20]
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Strangleroot Geist
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Restoration Angel
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Heons
1 Grave Titan


Engine [8]
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Birthing Pod
1 Recurring Nightmare

Removals [7]
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay

Discard [4]
4 Cabal Therapy

Lands [22]
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Scrubland
4 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold

SB [15]
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Thoughtseize
3 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg

I think I could take Thrun away for another 4 drop which I would like to trade for a 5 CMC, probably a Morderous Redcap?

In pod list you usually have a lot of board presence, so I took deeds to the board.

Let me just preface this by saying I think this card is bad in Legacy

Swan Song.
Cc - U
Type - Instant
Text - Counter target enchantment, instant, or sorcery spell. Its controller puts a Bird Token 2/2 with flying onto the battlefield under his control.

EXCEPT maybe in BUG Nic Fit in place of negate. It counters both show and tell AND sneak attack, and we really don't care if they get a 2/2 flier because most of our threats are bigger.

It also counters anything reanimator could play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Star|Scream

Let me just preface this by saying I think this card is bad in Legacy

Swan Song.
Cc - U
Type - Instant
Text - Counter target enchantment, instant, or sorcery spell. Its controller puts a Bird Token 2/2 with flying onto the battlefield under his control.

EXCEPT maybe in BUG Nic Fit in place of negate. It counters both show and tell AND sneak attack, and we really don't care if they get a 2/2 flier because most of our threats are bigger.

It also counters anything reanimator could play.

---

I noticed this card as a potential candidate for Nic Fit as well. It's even effective vs Elves, because it hits Glimpse, Zenith, and Natural order -- all of which are significant. The 2/2 body / extra Cradle mana is largely irrelevant there, too, because our plan vs Elves is to sweep early and often, and all of our sweep will kill it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Star|Scream

Let me just preface this by saying I think this card is bad in Legacy

Swan Song.
Cc - U
Type - Instant
Text - Counter target enchantment, instant, or sorcery spell. Its controller puts a Bird Token 2/2 with flying onto the battlefield under his control.

EXCEPT maybe in BUG Nic Fit in place of negate. It counters both show and tell AND sneak attack, and we really don't care if they get a 2/2 flier because most of our threats are bigger.

It also counters anything reanimator could play.

---

However, it still doesn't counter Jace (or any PW obv) nor does it counter potential pesky artifacts. The PW is the big one and for that reason alone, I still like Negate better. BUG versions are typically the least aggressive and can't answer resolved PWs nearly as well as other versions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoneyT

However, it still doesn't counter Jace (or any PW obv) nor does it counter potential pesky artifacts. The PW is the big one and for that reason alone, I still like Negate better. BUG versions are typically the least aggressive and can't answer resolved PWs nearly as well as other versions.

---

Granted, but a spread of something like this:

2 Glen Elendra Archmage
3 Negate
3 Swan Song

between maindeck and sideboard should be more than enough for almost all applications.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoneyT

However, it still doesn't counter Jace (or any PW obv) nor does it counter potential pesky artifacts. The PW is the big one and for that reason alone, I still like Negate better. BUG versions are typically the least aggressive and can't answer resolved PWs nearly as well as other versions.

---

I was going back to the conversation from a few pages ago debating envelop and negate. I think for those specific matchups where you need the speed, this is a better choice than both those options.

If you also want to bring in negates against durdly decks, then by all means.

Thanks guys for the advice, I'll be doing some testing and give updates later!

Actually, the more that I think about it, this card is pretty good against us. As long as they don't Swan song a cabal therapy :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Star|Scream

Actually, the more that I think about it, this card is pretty good against us. As long as they don't Swan song a cabal therapy :)

---

Agreed. This seems like a pretty good anti-discard counter for sneak/show or possibly ANT?

Article sent in to Mythic -- should be going up tonight. I'll post a linky when it's good to go.

I've been disappointed with Thragtusk lately as well - didn't realize it until other people said something and then I cast him the other night - well, without a way to recur him, he's just underwhelming. (I don't run Volrath's or Recurring Nightmare in my P-Fire list.) I was thinking of replacing Thragtusk with Batterskull, but not being able to GSZ for him makes me a bit nervous. So I'm considering going to 61 with two Batterskulls and this also makes me nervous. I haven't gotten around to testing yet, the soonest I can play is Friday, but does anyone have any thoughts?

http://mythicgameselmira.com/article/article.html

Article isn't linked directly yet, so it might be kind of a pain to read. Sorry bout that =|

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arianrhod

http://mythicgameselmira.com/article/article.html

Article isn't linked directly yet, so it might be kind of a pain to read. Sorry bout that =|

---

Great article. Pod is certainly fun to play, I'm glad you're considering it.

- One thing I'm not fond of in pod lists is putting too many tops and deeds. I've actually cut deed entirely and put 4 abrupt decay. But that's my decision...I do run 4 Deathrite, 3 wall of blossoms and 2 strangleroot. I usually have too much stuff in play to want to deed. My walls, explorers, undying/persist guys are enough to hold off stuff until I get to late game. At first I was like bleehhh wall of blossoms. Turns out, late game it's just a cantrip instead of a random 2 drop which I don't want to see. Deathrite speeds up pod so much! I also wanted more dudes to pressure planeswalkers like jace and liliana (was sick of these sticking too long).

- I still think primeval bounty should be considered. It makes sense to have two targets for rector. Nightmare dies to discard and decay sometimes which is annoying. Bounty has been outperforming it recently making every fetchland 5 life, every creature comes in with a 3/3 and drawing a therapy late game gives something +6+6. It's like a green jace lol. If you play top I would put it to 2 as birthing pod is kind of the same role: finding good stuff.

Can anyone confirm this:

If I activate spikefeeders -1 counter +2 life ability while having Archangel of Thune in play and my opponent stp Thune, I cant activate the spike ability in response because hes going to the gy before im gaining life and adding a counter from thune? (well I can but I can't combo off)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by litenkatt

Can anyone confirm this:

If I activate spikefeeders -1 counter +2 life ability while having Archangel of Thune in play and my opponent stp Thune, I cant activate the spike ability in response because hes going to the gy before im gaining life and adding a counter from thune? (well I can but I can't combo off)

---

Spike feeder will be put into the graveyard upon activation of the second instance of that ability before any player receives priority, correct

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arianrhod

http://mythicgameselmira.com/article/article.html

Article isn't linked directly yet, so it might be kind of a pain to read. Sorry bout that =|

---

Thanks for a very nice article. I love when the deckbuilder explains his choice card by card as you did.

Definitely have to get my hand on Archangel of Thune and get the party started!

The list looks good. Glad that Living Wish is gone. It is much better and more focused than what it was previously. I like pretty much everything about it.

One thing you could consider is switching Carpet of Flowers for Abrupt Decay in the Sideboard. Decay is great in all matchups in which Carpet would come in. Has been good for me because Deed + Carpet is horrendous against Shardless and Blade and can even cause problems against RUG. I don't mind though if you keep it this way. Nothing big.

But - and excuse the rant - this really bothers me:

I can't understand how everyone ignores Sylvan Ranger. It is a great card that does exactly what you want to do when you tutor for a land searcher 2-drop (unless you play Scapewish in which case of course Tribe Elder is better or if your meta is for some reason infested with Dredge). The point is that if you tutor for Tribe Elder you likely won't have many land drops anyway so he won't accelerate you. So you might as well just get Sylvan Ranger and have a creature AND a land instead of only one which is especially important in a Birthing Pod deck.

But Tribe Elder is fine, people don't get it with Tribe Elder, and I gave up on that and I can live with it. It is certainly wrong but Tribe Elder was a big thing in Standard once and Sylvan Ranger not and people play what they are used to and don't think too much about it. But Virdian Emissary... are you kidding me? This is so far worse than Sylvan Ranger, it is as bad as people playing Path to Exile over Swords to Plowshares in this deck. Viridian Emissary is better than Ranger exactly when all of this combined happens: a) you have a sac outlet, b) you have a land drop for the turn you sac it, c) you have a land drop for the next turn and d) you can use your mana exactly next turn.
What if you don't have the land drop this turn? Then you GSZ for Emissary, flash back Therapy and get a tapped land. And if you have Ranger in that place you get an UNTAPPED land and can use it for Top or another Therapy. Same thing with Tribe Elder btw.
Land drop this turn but no land drop next turn? Same card.
Can't use your mana completely next turn? Same card.
And, most importantly, what if you don't have a sac outlet or if you plan to chump but it gets Sworded? Then you just die a painful mana death.

I've liked the article good job (formatting was terrible though...). I've always liked to have some more things to do T1, considering Therapy isn't a T1 play. For that reason i'd go 3 GSZ, 2 Pod, or i'd play some more discard maindeck. 15-16 possible T1 plays at least is imho where u want to be. If you go lower than that, it can be a little awkward when you play legacy and don't do anything T1 :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tao

The list looks good. Glad that Living Wish is gone. It is much better and more focused than what it was previously. I like pretty much everything about it.

One thing you could consider is switching Carpet of Flowers for Abrupt Decay in the Sideboard. Decay is great in all matchups in which Carpet would come in. Has been good for me because Deed + Carpet is horrendous against Shardless and Blade and can even cause problems against RUG. I don't mind though if you keep it this way. Nothing big.

But - and excuse the rant - this really bothers me:

I can't understand how everyone ignores Sylvan Ranger. It is a great card that does exactly what you want to do when you tutor for a land searcher 2-drop (unless you play Scapewish in which case of course Tribe Elder is better or if your meta is for some reason infested with Dredge). The point is that if you tutor for Tribe Elder you likely won't have many land drops anyway so he won't accelerate you. So you might as well just get Sylvan Ranger and have a creature AND a land instead of only one which is especially important in a Birthing Pod deck.

But Tribe Elder is fine, people don't get it with Tribe Elder, and I gave up on that and I can live with it. It is certainly wrong but Tribe Elder was a big thing in Standard once and Sylvan Ranger not and people play what they are used to and don't think too much about it. But Virdian Emissary... are you kidding me? This is so far worse than Sylvan Ranger, it is as bad as people playing Path to Exile over Swords to Plowshares in this deck. Viridian Emissary is better than Ranger exactly when all of this combined happens: a) you have a sac outlet, b) you have a land drop for the turn you sac it, c) you have a land drop for the next turn and d) you can use your mana exactly next turn.
What if you don't have the land drop this turn? Then you GSZ for Emissary, flash back Therapy and get a tapped land. And if you have Ranger in that place you get an UNTAPPED land and can use it for Top or another Therapy. Same thing with Tribe Elder btw.
Land drop this turn but no land drop next turn? Same card.
Can't use your mana completely next turn? Same card.
And, most importantly, what if you don't have a sac outlet or if you plan to chump but it gets Sworded? Then you just die a painful mana death.

---

As noted in the article, I've been waffling on Emissary vs Ranger a lot. But these are pretty good points.

Sold.

As for Carpet of Flowers, yeah, it's a nonbo with Deed, which tends to be good against decks that you want Carpet vs (exceptions being High Tide, Omni/Sneak/etc -- incidentally, Decay is useless vs these decks). However, the real reason to play Carpet of Flowers in my opinion is to fundamentally change the axis of the game against planeswalkers. Yes, it's helpful vs tempo decks because it invalidates their conditional counters. Yes, it's good ramp vs Ux combo decks.

But consider your standard planeswalker deck. Shardless or Esper -- either one works. Both have some chunky planeswalking flesh backing them up, and dealing with board control + planeswalker is one of the harder things for Nic Fit to do historically. You can crack an Explorer, and Esper will drop a planeswalker. Depending on if the particular Shardless list runs basics, they very well might, too. Or you might not have an Explorer and they just curve out into a t3 Jace via DRS. One of the best ways to answer this problem is to have a threat already in play, so that if they deploy their Jace, it represents a 4-mana Brainstorm and then dies. Carpet is a very good way to do this. Consider:

t1 Carpet
---------
t1 DRS

t2 (3 mana) -> Kitchen Finks; Spike; Pod; Zenith for more ramp; Vet + Therapy + any of the mentioned
---------
t2 (3 mana) -> Liliana (sac a dude? she dies to persist; discard keeps her alive, barely)
t2 (3 mana) -> Goyf + Brainstorm
t2 (3 mana) -> blind Shardless -> Visions

t3 (5+ mana) -> Pod + stuff; Archangel; Tusk; multiple 2-3's; Zenith for something; etc
---------
t3 (4 mana) -> Jace

By the time they get to a turn 3 Jace, assuming 2 turns of an active Deathrite, we're tremendously far ahead on board position, and Jace is guaranteed to die, along with Liliana along the way. The Triad (DRS -> Lily -> Jace) is the scariest curve that Shardless has, and Carpet singlehandedly dismantles it. Yes, it dies to Deed -- but by the time you're Deeding against one of these decks, you have enough lands in play anyway, nine times out of ten. Carpet is to gain tempo and get board development ahead of your opponent.

------------------------------

By the by, regarding the whole, Spike Feeder, in response kill [something], chain. You can actually play around this and set up to beat a spot removal if you expect it -- Scavenge something onto Spike Feeder, which puts additional +1/+1 counters on it. That way you can safely go infinite through spot removal.

Nevermind!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arianrhod

As noted in the article, I've been waffling on Emissary vs Ranger a lot. But these are pretty good points.

Sold.

As for Carpet of Flowers, yeah, it's a nonbo with Deed, which tends to be good against decks that you want Carpet vs (exceptions being High Tide, Omni/Sneak/etc -- incidentally, Decay is useless vs these decks). However, the real reason to play Carpet of Flowers in my opinion is to fundamentally change the axis of the game against planeswalkers. Yes, it's helpful vs tempo decks because it invalidates their conditional counters. Yes, it's good ramp vs Ux combo decks.

But consider your standard planeswalker deck. Shardless or Esper -- either one works. Both have some chunky planeswalking flesh backing them up, and dealing with board control + planeswalker is one of the harder things for Nic Fit to do historically. You can crack an Explorer, and Esper will drop a planeswalker. Depending on if the particular Shardless list runs basics, they very well might, too. Or you might not have an Explorer and they just curve out into a t3 Jace via DRS. One of the best ways to answer this problem is to have a threat already in play, so that if they deploy their Jace, it represents a 4-mana Brainstorm and then dies. Carpet is a very good way to do this. Consider:

t1 Carpet
---------
t1 DRS

t2 (3 mana) -> Kitchen Finks; Spike; Pod; Zenith for more ramp; Vet + Therapy + any of the mentioned
---------
t2 (3 mana) -> Liliana (sac a dude? she dies to persist; discard keeps her alive, barely)
t2 (3 mana) -> Goyf + Brainstorm
t2 (3 mana) -> blind Shardless -> Visions

t3 (5+ mana) -> Pod + stuff; Archangel; Tusk; multiple 2-3's; Zenith for something; etc
---------
t3 (4 mana) -> Jace

By the time they get to a turn 3 Jace, assuming 2 turns of an active Deathrite, we're tremendously far ahead on board position, and Jace is guaranteed to die, along with Liliana along the way. The Triad (DRS -> Lily -> Jace) is the scariest curve that Shardless has, and Carpet singlehandedly dismantles it. Yes, it dies to Deed -- but by the time you're Deeding against one of these decks, you have enough lands in play anyway, nine times out of ten. Carpet is to gain tempo and get board development ahead of your opponent.

------------------------------

By the by, regarding the whole, Spike Feeder, in response kill [something], chain. You can actually play around this and set up to beat a spot removal if you expect it -- Scavenge something onto Spike Feeder, which puts additional +1/+1 counters on it. That way you can safely go infinite through spot removal.

---

I agree about the carpet. However for the miracles matchup Choke is strictly better imo.

Hello, I am back. I just moved and got internet hooked up today. I am still playing Rector, I have been trying to read back on posts that I missed but there is just too many. I am going to get a trial version of camtasia and record a few games in the near future.

On birthing pod, I started out with that version and everyone was telling me the rector version was superior. Maybe at that time they were right, but pod has always been strong. Recovers a lot faster from board wipes and when I play tested vs burn it was down to who played first most of the time. But I have always found 4 pods way to much. If I can find my old deck list I will post it.

After a few days of testing - finally got all four Jaces - here are some thoughts on BUG (without Birthing Pod):

- I sorely missed having recurring removal like P-Fire.
- It's not as fast as GBW and it doesn't have the board control of GBR
- Doesn't control the stack as well as other blue decks.

BUG honestly feels like it's stuck somewhere in the middle - can't control the stack well enough (G2,G3), can't control the board well enough. I don't feel like my combo matchup improved that much compared to P-Fire except for the random Force of Wills that saved me once over five rounds. BUG doesn't feel like it does anything special that the other builds can't accomplish. Casting Jace is great, having Brainstorm is great too, but I honestly don't see the reason to run this version over P-Fire. Is Birthing Pod the trick? It could just be the way I built the deck, so here's a list for reference.

60 Cards Total:

2 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Baleful Strix
1 Primeval Titan
1 Thragtusk
1 Deathrite Shaman
2 Eternal Witness

3 Pernicious Deed

3 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay

4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Liliana of the Veil

2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy

2 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Volrath's Stronghold


SB: 4 Negate
SB: 3 Force of Will - Tried Envelop but there are two storm players in my meta and I can't win G3 without turn zero disruption.
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Memoricide
SB: 1 Cranial Extraction

Greetings nic fitters! I am helping a friend break into the format and it Nic Fit is one of the decks he has his eye on, however I am not overly familiar with the deck. He is interested in the punishing fires engine and likes to drop haymakers but were not sure exactly what is a nonbo here and we want to be sure before he springs for the cards hes missing.

Can PF engine be included along with birthing pods or another engine or is the deck pretty much limited to 1 engine (pod/PF/rector/wish etc)?

Also is natural order viable in nic fit? VE + GSZ seems ideal for consistantly dropping T3 order.

Lastly is there a place for wurmcoil engine or similarly high powered artie creatures here? It seems to fit the decks plan and would work well with academy ruins but there must be a reason only certain cc5+ bombs make the cut. I would appreciate any insight here and thanks in advance.

Edit- forgot to add, is there any reason rector builds dont run eldrazi conscription? Seems like dropping one of these onto an archangel of thune would be pretty decent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tombstalker

Greetings nic fitters! I am helping a friend break into the format and it Nic Fit is one of the decks he has his eye on, however I am not overly familiar with the deck. He is interested in the punishing fires engine and likes to drop haymakers but were not sure exactly what is a nonbo here and we want to be sure before he springs for the cards hes missing.

Can PF engine be included along with birthing pods or another engine or is the deck pretty much limited to 1 engine (pod/PF/rector/wish etc)?

Also is natural order viable in nic fit? VE + GSZ seems ideal for consistantly dropping T3 order.

Lastly is there a place for wurmcoil engine or similarly high powered artie creatures here? It seems to fit the decks plan and would work well with academy ruins but there must be a reason only certain cc5+ bombs make the cut. I would appreciate any insight here and thanks in advance.

Edit- forgot to add, is there any reason rector builds dont run eldrazi conscription? Seems like dropping one of these onto an archangel of thune would be pretty decent.

---

PF engine is great. I have had little sucess with it. The scapewish list, however, has been awesome for me: List

People have tried PF engine with pods, wishes, scapeshift, etc. They have all been terrible. Its good on its own. GSZ provides enough utility.

Natural order has been pretty bad for everyone thats tried it. I would highly recommend staying away from it.

Wurmcoil isnt terrible, but grave titan is usually the better option. In a Jund PF list, the only 6 drops really worth considering is Primeval titan, and optionally Broodmate Dragon. Bombs need to be immune to removal, provide an awesome ETB ability so its ok if they remove it and then the most important consideration be green so you can have 5 of the bombs in your deck, but have a low chance of drawing a 6 drop when you dont want it.

Eldrazi conscription just opens you up for getting 2 for 1ed and also, rector has been really really really bad since printing DRS and rest in peace. I would not recommend playing rectors if you want to play a competitive deck.

Hey thanks for the reply brother, kinda what I figured on the wurmcoil and rector too I suppose. The engines being mutually exclusive I still dont get but then I havent played the deck.

@Arianrhod Is there any reason your current GBW deck runs no spot removal?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pfiremc13

@Arianrhod Is there any reason your current GBW deck runs no spot removal?

---

I think its because he wants to have creatures you have to answer rather than you have creatures he has to answer.

I just went 3-1 on MTGO daily event with Rector. I'll post more information tomorrow. I am dead tired and I have to get up in 4 hours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CRich3

I think its because he wants to have creatures you have to answer rather than you have creatures he has to answer.

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But nic fit isn't meant to be aggro...