Perhaps we should. We can put that up to vote. It is very stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by dte
I would say let's put it onto the definitive banned list. Let me know what you guys think.
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Perhaps we should. We can put that up to vote. It is very stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by dte
I would say let's put it onto the definitive banned list. Let me know what you guys think.
@Silk: not to point out inconsistencies, but now you have one MU where you counter artefacts (WoP, and I guess that should be 0-6), one where you edited can into cannot, and one when you didn't (or you should WL against me).
And beautiful Mud deck, especially with masticore SB.
@Asthereal, +1 for the permanent banned list.
Deadline has passed, and I'm missing a few, among whom FTW. Also I have an illegal entry who I've sent a PM.
I'll give you guys a bit more time.
Also, don't forget to vote about this.
Curse of Silence, should probably be permanently banned. It's 90% Cabal Therapy, only worse against decks that can make a lot of mana to get around it.
I think it should probably be banned, I think there's no doubt it outclasses the other legal 1 mana discard options.
If we're talking perma-bans, I'd suggest Grief as a strong candidate. Unmask is a good card anyway, and the fact one can use Undying Evil or Ephemerate to get additional discard and a body out of it seems well over the top.
I vote to ban Curse of Silence too.
Also submitted my deck.
I like the concept behind Curse of Silence in encouraging slower storage-land options, but the cyclical metagame that would result wouldn't be that great.
I also second PJim for grief.
I'm less concerned about Grief because it becomes an entire deck archetype.
To be any better than Unmask it takes all 4 cards:
BW land, Grief, black card, Ephemerate/Undying Evil
Is that any more broken than other T1 combos that aren't perma-banned?
City of Traitors, Lotus Petal, Induced Amnesia is only 3 cards
Mountain, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Barbed Shocker is 4 cards
Both shut down even more than the Grief deck can
If all-in T1 combos aren't permabanned, Grief seems fine. In "fair" mode it's just Unmask.
I thought Induced Amnesia was on the basic banned list.
Grief is actually fine because of the all-in nature required to make it actually better than Unmask, as FTW mentioned.
Reanimate is likely always the best option.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
Grief is definitely better, exactly because it is not all-in. Amnesia (should still be on the permanent list)/shoker lose to counters, and WL vs discard/moon/sphere, like all-in decks should, while grief beats moon, almost any FoW.deck or other counters, and likely WD vs discard or sphere.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
I also vote to ban Curse of Silence.
Looks pretty unanimous. Curse is out. I'll add it to the list.
Also, I think I now have all the decks I can expect, so let's post some decks!
DECKS FOR ROUND 13 OF SEASON 10: Deviant Legacy Bannathon
This round we play The Long Haul: Players start at 100 life. Effects that would make you win the game immediately instead do nothing.
The entries:
1. Asthereal (TO): Savannah, Durkwood Baloth, Durkwood Baloth, Reciprocate
2. dte: smallpox, memnite, phyrexian tower, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
3. Wrath of Pie: Mountain, Dwarven Ruins, Blood Moon, Keldon Halberdier
4. alphastryk: Swamp, Encroach, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven
5. Reeplcheep: Scrubland, Cry of Contrition, Serra Ascendant, Serra Ascendent
6. PJim: Stomping Ground, Orcish Lumberjack, Aluren, Acererak the Archlich
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Forest, Glistener Elf, Invigorate, Berserk
8. silkster: Scrubland, Inkmoth Nexus, Judge's Familiar, Mesmeric Fiend
9. jhhdk: Pendelhaven, Inkmoth Nexus, Blight Mamba, Melira, Sylvok outcast
10. maxx!: Swamp, Putrid Imp, Reanimate, Archon of Cruelty
11. FTW: Swamp, Inkmoth Nexus, Fatal Push, Mesmeric Fiend
12. RoosterCocoa: Swamp, Encroach, Hangarback Walker, Mishra's Factory
Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
You can also enter your scores in the Google Spreadsheet for the season which you can find here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
1. Asthereal (TO): Savannah, Durkwood Baloth, Durkwood Baloth, Reciprocate
OTP Encroach takes Savannah for the win, OTD I can't beat 2 large threats. WL
3-3
2. dte: smallpox, memnite, phyrexian tower, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
OTP Encroach wins it, OTD Smallpox loop is too strong. WL
3-3
3. Wrath of Pie: Mountain, Dwarven Ruins, Blood Moon, Keldon Halberdier
Blood Moon & Encroach don't do a lot here, and Cat + Oven can block scan forever to blank the Halberier. WW
6-0
4. alphastryk: Swamp, Encroach, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven
This is me, hoping to see a lot of greedy mana slow decks.
5. Reeplcheep: Scrubland, Cry of Contrition, Serra Ascendant, Serra Ascendent
Serra Ascendent is such an insane threat in this format, can't believe I forgot about it. OTP Encroach does the job, OTD I get crushed by Ascendent. WL
3-3
6. PJim: Stomping Ground, Orcish Lumberjack, Aluren, Acererak the Archlich
OTP Encroach wins it, OTD I can't beat turbo Alluren. WL
3-3
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Forest, Glistener Elf, Invigorate, Berserk
EDIT - if I block I can't sacrifice without taking 10 trample poison, and if I don't sacrifice my loop ends. LL
0-6
8. silkster: Scrubland, Inkmoth Nexus, Judge's Familiar, Mesmeric Fiend
OTP Encroach takes Scrubland for the win, OTD (EDIT) Familiar counters Encroach and Inkmoth races me. WL
3-3
9. jhhdk: Pendelhaven, Inkmoth Nexus, Blight Mamba, Melira, Sylvok outcast
Encroach always takes one of your lands and prevents you from producing a threat. WW
6-0
10. maxx!: Swamp, Putrid Imp, Reanimate, Archon of Cruelty
Encroach does nothing, and Archon destroys me. LL
0-6
11. FTW: Swamp, Inkmoth Nexus, Fatal Push, Mesmeric Fiend
OTP Encroach takes Inkmoth which takes away both your threats, OTD I can't beat Fiend. WL
3-3
12. RoosterCocoa: Swamp, Encroach, Hangarback Walker, Mishra's Factory
OTP Encroach takes Factory to prevent both your threats, OTD you can play Factory out before I can Encroach it, but even if you get both threats in play I can always chump block Walker and sacrifice my Cat, and the 2 life drain there offsets the 2 life lost from Factory attacking. You're first able to get through with Factory on your turn 3, and I'm able to start looping cat on my turn 2 so I think you just barely win that race. WL
3-3
Total: 33 points
5. Reeplcheep: Scrubland, Cry of Contrition, Serra Ascendant, Serra Ascendent
Went with a boring 2 6/6s and a way to not fold to combo
The entries:
1. Asthereal (TO): Savannah, Durkwood Baloth, Durkwood Baloth, Reciprocate
You lose the race even without me using cry. WW 6-0
2. dte: smallpox, memnite, phyrexian tower, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Discard based combo wrecks me LL 0-6
3. Wrath of Pie: Mountain, Dwarven Ruins, Blood Moon, Keldon Halberdier
My threat is better than yours. WW 6-0
4. alphastryk: Swamp, Encroach, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven
Get encroached. WL 3-3
6. PJim: Stomping Ground, Orcish Lumberjack, Aluren, Acererak the Archlich
4 card combo gets cried. WW 6-0
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Forest, Glistener Elf, Invigorate, Berserk
You can’t win but beserk will let you hold a draw. DD 2-2
8. silkster: Scrubland, Inkmoth Nexus, Judge's Familiar, Mesmeric Fiend
Serra beats your entire board but I need 2 to make progress. WD 4-1
9. jhhdk: Pendelhaven, Inkmoth Nexus, Blight Mamba, Melira, Sylvok outcast
I believe I can win the race here. Not sure though. ??
10. maxx!: Swamp, Putrid Imp, Reanimate, Archon of Cruelty
Discard proof combo :( LL 0-6
11. FTW: Swamp, Inkmoth Nexus, Fatal Push, Mesmeric Fiend
Push always trades with on aspirant and then I can’t win the race. DD 2-2
12. RoosterCocoa: Swamp, Encroach, Hangarback Walker, Mishra's Factory
Without a way to sack the walker you lose the race. WL 3-3
Lost a bunch of points to using cry instead of expropriate or funeral charm
1. Asthereal (TO): Savannah, Durkwood Baloth, Durkwood Baloth, Reciprocate
6-0. Memnite smash!
6
2. dte: smallpox, memnite, phyrexian tower, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Me, trying again a pox iteration. But this time it works! And also taking the title seriously, the long haul: no possible win before 101 turns.
3. Wrath of Pie: Mountain, Dwarven Ruins, Blood Moon, Keldon Halberdier
6-0. Memnite smash!
12
4. alphastryk: Swamp, Encroach, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven
3-3, Encroach or memnite.
15
5. Reeplcheep: Scrubland, Cry of Contrition, Serra Ascendant, Serra Ascendent
6-0. Memnite smash!
21
6. PJim: Stomping Ground, Orcish Lumberjack, Aluren, Acererak the Archlich
6-0. Memnite smash!
27
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Forest, Glistener Elf, Invigorate, Berserk
6-0. Memnite smash!
33
8. silkster: Scrubland, Inkmoth Nexus, Judge's Familiar, Mesmeric Fiend
0-6. Cannot beat that. OTD familiar kills me, OTP, discarding familiar if I play SP wins for you.
33
9. jhhdk: Pendelhaven, Inkmoth Nexus, Blight Mamba, Melira, Sylvok outcast
6-0. Memnite smash!
39
10. maxx!: Swamp, Putrid Imp, Reanimate, Archon of Cruelty
6-0. Memnite smash!
45
11. FTW: Swamp, Inkmoth Nexus, Fatal Push, Mesmeric Fiend
2-2, we stare.
47
12. RoosterCocoa: Swamp, Encroach, Hangarback Walker, Mishra's Factory
3-3, Encroach vs memnite duel.
50
3. Wrath of Pie: Mountain, Dwarven Ruins, Blood Moon, Keldon Halberdier
1. Asthereal (TO): Savannah, Durkwood Baloth, Durkwood Baloth, Reciprocate LL
2. dte: smallpox, memnite, phyrexian tower, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre LL
4. alphastryk: Swamp, Encroach, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven LL
5. Reeplcheep: Scrubland, Cry of Contrition, Serra Ascendant, Serra Ascendent LL
6. PJim: Stomping Ground, Orcish Lumberjack, Aluren, Acererak the Archlich WL
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Forest, Glistener Elf, Invigorate, Berserk LL
8. silkster: Scrubland, Inkmoth Nexus, Judge's Familiar, Mesmeric Fiend WL
9. jhhdk: Pendelhaven, Inkmoth Nexus, Blight Mamba, Melira, Sylvok outcast WD
10. maxx!: Swamp, Putrid Imp, Reanimate, Archon of Cruelty LL
11. FTW: Swamp, Inkmoth Nexus, Fatal Push, Mesmeric Fiend LL
12. RoosterCocoa: Swamp, Encroach, Hangarback Walker, Mishra's Factory LL
3w1d = 10 points
All those basic lands!
12. RoosterCocoa: Swamp, Encroach, Hangarback Walker, Mishra's Factory
1. Asthereal (TO): Savannah, Durkwood Baloth, Durkwood Baloth, Reciprocate
OTP Encroach takes your land. OTD you get a Baloth on turn 6 and the second on turn 7. Hangarback Walker is a 6/6 by your turn 8, which is too fast for you to kill me. I then just keep it on defense and make it larger until it can kill you in one attack. WW
2. dte: smallpox, memnite, phyrexian tower, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
OTP Encroach takes your land. OTD I don't play anything until you Smallpox, and I then discard Encroach. Your deck from top to bottom is Ulamog, Smallpox, Phyrexian Tower, and Memnite. On my turn I play Swamp. You then draw Ulamog. On my next turn I play Mishra's Factory and a 1/1 Hangarback. You then draw Smallpox. On my next turn I make Hangarback a 2/2. You then draw Phyrexian Tower. On my next turn I make Hangarback a 3/3. You draw Memnite and play Smallpox, and I sacrifice Hangarback and Swamp, giving me 3 1/1 tokens. I won't be able to get enough damage through before you eventually kill all of my tokens, even if I animate Mishra's Factory to sacrifice it as the creature for Smallpox, so I lose. WL
3. Wrath of Pie: Mountain, Dwarven Ruins, Blood Moon, Keldon Halberdier
Blood Moon and Encroach don't do much, and I can get Hangarback Walker to a 5/5 before you can kill me so I can just wait until it is large enough to one shot you. WW
4. alphastryk: Swamp, Encroach, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven
OTP I dodge your Encroach and eventually win by attacking with 2 creatures. OTD I lose to your Encroach. WL
5. Reeplcheep: Scrubland, Cry of Contrition, Serra Ascendant, Serra Ascendent
OTP Encroach takes your land, OTD I am too slow. WL
6. PJim: Stomping Ground, Orcish Lumberjack, Aluren, Acererak the Archlich
OTP Encroach takes your land, OTD I can't disrupt your combo. WL
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Forest, Glistener Elf, Invigorate, Berserk
OTP I have a 1/1 Hangarback in play when you first attack with Glistener Elf, so I block with it (you don't wait to attack because the Hangarback just gets bigger). You just use Invigorate, Hangarback dies, leaving me a 1/1 thopter and Glistener Elf survives. From then on I need to leave one creature back on defense and if I attack with one of them, you Berserk to kill it, so we end up staring at each other. OTD I can't block your turn 2 attack so I lose. DL
8. silkster: Scrubland, Inkmoth Nexus, Judge's Familiar, Mesmeric Fiend
OTP I Encroach your Scrubland and you can't play anything. OTD you counter my Encroach with Judge's Familiar and kill me with infect. WL
9. jhhdk: Pendelhaven, Inkmoth Nexus, Blight Mamba, Melira, Sylvok outcast
Encroach means you never get 2 mana. WW
10. maxx!: Swamp, Putrid Imp, Reanimate, Archon of Cruelty
I can't beat Archon of Cruelty or stop you from getting it into play. LL
11. FTW: Swamp, Inkmoth Nexus, Fatal Push, Mesmeric Fiend
OTP I Encroach your Inkmoth Nexus and slowly win with a 1/1. OTD you take Hangarback Walker with Mesmeric Fiend and kill me with infect. WL
12W 1D 9L = 37
Got lucky by betting on Encroach this time.
DraftResults:
1. Asthereal (TO): Savannah, Durkwood Baloth, Durkwood Baloth, Reciprocatelooks likeWW
2. dte: smallpox, memnite, phyrexian tower, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre LL
3. Wrath of Pie: Mountain, Dwarven Ruins, Blood Moon, Keldon HalberdierLLDL (thanks dte)
4. alphastryk: Swamp, Encroach, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven LL
5. Reeplcheep: Scrubland, Cry of Contrition, Serra Ascendant, Serra AscendentlaterWW (thanks for doing analysis FTW)
6. PJim: Stomping Ground, Orcish Lumberjack, Aluren, Acererak the Archlich LL
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Forest, Glistener Elf, Invigorate, Berserk WL
8. silkster: Scrubland, Inkmoth Nexus, Judge's Familiar, Mesmeric FiendLLDL (thanks dte)
9. jhhdk: Pendelhaven, Inkmoth Nexus, Blight Mamba, Melira, Sylvok outcast ME
10. maxx!: Swamp, Putrid Imp, Reanimate, Archon of Cruelty LL
11. FTW: Swamp, Inkmoth Nexus, Fatal Push, Mesmeric FiendprobablyLL
12. RoosterCocoa: Swamp, Encroach, Hangarback Walker, Mishra's Factory LL
When you are OTD can't Silkster sacrifice Judge's Familiar to counter Encroach? Then you play Cauldron Familiar, and silkster beats you down with Inkmoth Nexus, which wins the race against Cauldron Familiar and Witch's Oven.Quote:
Originally Posted by alphastryk
Yes, not sure why I thought my Encroach was safe. Updating.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoosterCocoa
maxx!: Swamp, Putrid Imp, Reanimate, Archon of Cruelty
1. Asthereal (TO): Savannah, Durkwood Baloth, Durkwood Baloth, Reciprocate
Reciprocate makes this tricky, but I think I can navigate this. If you never suspend a Baloth, I kill you with Putrid Imp, so you have to suspend at least one. As soon as your first Baloth unsuspends, I Reanimate Archon. You'll lose the Baloth in play and discard either a second Baloth or Reciprocate. You still can't remove Archon, so I can an attack trigger with it too, making you discard the rest of your hand. I can always get 2 Archon triggers before it deals damage to you, so there's no way for you to hold onto Reciprocate for it unless you never suspend a creature, which loses to Imp beatdown. 6-0
2. dte: smallpox, memnite, phyrexian tower, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Bleh. Smallpox gets me before I can do anything, and then you can kill me with Memnite. Nice deck. 0-6
3. Wrath of Pie: Mountain, Dwarven Ruins, Blood Moon, Keldon Halberdier
Blood Moon is a blank and Archon wrecks the Keldon. 6-0
4. alphastryk: Swamp, Encroach, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven
Encroach is a blank and Archon is way faster than your kill. 6-0
5. Reeplcheep: Scrubland, Cry of Contrition, Serra Ascendant, Serra Ascendent
Since Cry is a sorcery, I just hold Archon as discard fodder until I'm ready to Reanimate on my turn. Imp attacks you until you play one Ascendant, and then Archon edicts it, then edicts or discard the other with attack triggers. 6-0
6. PJim: Stomping Ground, Orcish Lumberjack, Aluren, Acererak the Archlich
Why not Taiga? It doesn't matter (especially with 100 life), but I'm curious. OTP I make you discard a card before you go off. OTD you're too fast. 3-3
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Forest, Glistener Elf, Invigorate, Berserk
I expected this one. OTP I get Archon before you can attack, forcing you to discard. Your best line is to hold everything, discard Invigorate, and then try to use Berserk as removal for Archon. You can either play Elf or hold it, and then when I attack with Archon you'll lose it to the trigger either way. You can Berserk in response to the attack trigger, but I still have Putrid Imp to kill you. OTD I get Imp just in time to not die to Elf, but that means you can let them trade and then hold Berserk for removal (discarding Invigorate). 4-1
8. silkster: Scrubland, Inkmoth Nexus, Judge's Familiar, Mesmeric Fiend
This is absolutely brutal. OTP Familiar counters Reanimate, and OTD Fiend takes it. I can't ever get Archon in play. Inkmoth kills me no matter how the rest of the creatures shake out. 0-6
9. jhhdk: Pendelhaven, Inkmoth Nexus, Blight Mamba, Melira, Sylvok outcast
This is super interesting because I think it's a legitimate race and it's close. OTD you can lead with Inkmoth, then I play Imp. If you attack now, I pitch Archon to jump my Imp and block, locking you out of the game while I'm free to Reanimate. If you play one of your creatures, Archon gets to take both (sac 1 discard 1), so I think your best line is to pass. That lets me reanimate Archon (you're at 97 life) and attack (96). You can't attack into my Archon, and I can attack for 10 per turn (6 Archon, 3 trigger, 1 Imp). I can start the race first, so I should win against Inkmoth. 6-0
10. maxx!: Swamp, Putrid Imp, Reanimate, Archon of Cruelty
This is me :]
11. FTW: Swamp, Inkmoth Nexus, Fatal Push, Mesmeric Fiend
OTD Fiend takes Reanimate and I lose. OTP I get my Archon, but you still have a possible Inkmoth race, so let's work that out.
T1 Imp / Push (discard Archon in response)
T2 Archon / Inkmoth (0P vs 97L)
Now I need 11 attacks and you only need 10, so I can't race you. I have to sit back. 1-4
12. RoosterCocoa: Swamp, Encroach, Hangarback Walker, Mishra's Factory
Encroach is a blank and Archon should dominate your creatures. 6-0
6+0+6+6+6+3+4+0+6+1+6 = 44
I expected Infect, but expected more Serra Ascendant. It's so safe against Infect (especially Inkmoth), that I expected a bit less Inkmoth this time around. I thought there was probably a broken Phyrexian Tower deck too, but somehow didn't think of Smallpox Eldrazi 🙃. Reanimate seemed pretty good, and Archon could SOMETIMES let me race Inkmoth as long as my Imp stuck around, plus I get a turn 2 discard spell against other combo.
11. FTW: Swamp, Inkmoth Nexus, Fatal Push, Mesmeric Fiend
1. Asthereal (TO): Mesmeric Fiend exiles Reciprocate. 2x Baloth kills on Turn 16. Inkmoth kills on Turn 12. WW 6-0
2. dte: I do nothing. If you Smallpox first (Library = Smallpox, Ulamog, Tower, Memnite), I discard Fatal Push and can Mesmeric Fiend your Smallpox before you can loop again, then Inkmoth races Memnite. So you also do nothing. DD 2-2
3. Wrath of Pie: OTP I play Swamp. If you play tapped Ruins (for turn 2 Blood Moon), I Mesmeric Fiend the Halberdier and win on Turn 102. If you play Mountain + suspend Keldon, I Mesmeric Fiend the Blood Moon and Inkmoth races.
OTD you play tapped Ruins. I play Swamp. If you play T2 Moon, I play Fiend exiling Halberdier and win on Turn 102. If you play Halberdier first (Turn 2 Moon impossible), then T2 Fiend takes Moon and Inkmoth races. WW 6-0
4. alphastryk: OTD I lose to Encroach. OTP I play T1 Inkmoth, which races your deck. WL 3-3
5. Reeplcheep: OTP I play T1 Swamp. You cast Cry, I discard Fatal Push, then I play Mesmeric Fiend taking 1 Serra (if you play T1 Serra instead, I EOT Push, Fiend the 2nd Serra & win). You have 1 Serra (17 turn clock) vs Inkmoth (10 turn clock), so you defend to draw.
OTD you play T1 Serra. I Push it. You play T2 Serra, which draws with my Inkmoth. If you use Cry instead then I discard Push and Fiend the 2nd Serra, still a draw. DD 2-2
6. PJim: Fatal Push stops Lumberjack. WW 6-0
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Fatal Push stops Elf, then Fiend exiles Berserk so you can't kill Inkmoth. WW 6-0
8. silkster: I play T2 Fiend taking your Fiend. Push takes Familiar. I attack with Fiend (leaving Inkmoth to block yours). If you attack back, our Inkmoths trade and my Fiend kills you. If you block Fiend with Inkmoth, you can't recast your Fiend and my Inkmoth wins.
OTD you get the Fiend advantage. You play T1 Familiar, I Push it, then your Fiend exiles my Fiend. Same situation (Fiend + Inkmoth vs Inkmoth) except in your favor. WL 3-3
9. jhhdk: OTP T2 Fiend exiles Melira. If you tap out for Blight Mamba, I Fatal Push it. Our Inkmoths trade and my Fiend gets there.
OTD I play T1 Swamp. You play T2 Melira or Mamba, I EOT Push it, then I untap and Mesmeric Fiend the other one. Same board state (Fiend + Inkmoth vs Inkmoth). WW 6-0
10. maxx!: OTP I T2 Mesmeric Fiend your Reanimate, then Push your PImp and beatdown with Inkmoth.
OTD you play T1 PImp. I T1 Push it and you discard Archon, then you T2 Reanimate Archon. I discard Fiend to the trigger, then play Inkmoth. Archon can't force me to sacrifice Inkmoth and loses the race (11 turn clock vs 10), so you stay back to defend. WD 4-1
12. RoosterCocoa: OTD I lose to Encroach. OTP I play T1 Inkmoth under Encroach, then T2 Fiend exiling Hangarback. Inkmoth races Factory. WL 3-3
47 points (14 wins, 5 draws, 3 loss)
I wanted to play Serra Ascendant until I realized it's a slower clock than a 1/1 Infect (not true if it was 50 life). The life buffer was so high that Infect damage or something unfair seemed optimal to any fair win conditions.
I expected other Infect decks and even Melira, so I wanted instant speed removal to kill Melira OTD, stop T2 Infect combo OTD, and kill enemy Inkmoths if they animate.
I thought about Phyrexian Tower.dec but all the Spheres were banned and T1 Mesmeric Fiend wasn't good enough (maybe if Dismember wasn't banned). Never thought about it with Smallpox.
For me the catch was that playing Serra Ascendant would only draw vs enemy Serra, no better than Inkmoth does. But Inkmoth seemed better vs other things (except Encroach).Quote:
Originally Posted by maxx!
Berserk can be used as a removal spell to kill enemy attacker, especially at 100 life.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoosterCocoa
OTP your 1/1 Hangarback blocks 5/5 Invigorated Elf.
If 1/1 Thopter attacks, it gets Berserked and dies. Mishra has to stay back to block Elf (would lose the race). DL?
Blood Moon not turning sideways really hurts you here, as you're forced to choose between T2 Moon and playing out your threat earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie
Naturally, Magus of the Moon was already banned.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
I was expecting more storage lands/sac lands (because 100 life makes those strategies better), but that didn't happen of course.
Yeah, I forgot that Berserk also worked as removal.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
PhyrexianSmashmaster Results for Round "Poison"
This round we play The Long Haul: Players start at 100 life. Effects that would make you win the game immediately instead do nothing.
1. Asthereal (TO): Savannah, Durkwood Baloth, Durkwood Baloth, Reciprocate
Elf smash! 6-0
2. dte: smallpox, memnite, phyrexian tower, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Smallpox :( 0-6
3. Wrath of Pie: Mountain, Dwarven Ruins, Blood Moon, Keldon Halberdier
Elf smash! 6-0
4. alphastryk: Swamp, Encroach, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven
Elf smash! 6-0
5. Reeplcheep: Scrubland, Cry of Contrition, Serra Ascendant, Serra Ascendent
Elf stare 2-2
6. PJim: Stomping Ground, Orcish Lumberjack, Aluren, Acererak the Archlich
Combo mirror 3-3
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Forest, Glistener Elf, Invigorate, Berserk
That's me, smashing with Poison!
8. silkster: Scrubland, Inkmoth Nexus, Judge's Familiar, Mesmeric Fiend
Judgy fiend 0-6
9. jhhdk: Pendelhaven, Inkmoth Nexus, Blight Mamba, Melira, Sylvok outcast
Elf smash, then Melira 3-3
10. maxx!: Swamp, Putrid Imp, Reanimate, Archon of Cruelty
Too cruel 1-4
11. FTW: Swamp, Inkmoth Nexus, Fatal Push, Mesmeric Fiend
Pushed down 0-6
12. RoosterCocoa: Swamp, Encroach, Hangarback Walker, Mishra's Factory
Elf smash, then blocker 4-1
Total: 31 points
Asthereal's scores for round I failed to read my removal card and also failed to use Gatherer properly:
1. Asthereal (TO): Savannah, Durkwood Baloth, Durkwood Baloth, Reciprocate <-me
2. dte: smallpox, memnite, phyrexian tower, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre LL 0-6
3. Wrath of Pie: Mountain, Dwarven Ruins, Blood Moon, Keldon Halberdier WW 6-0
4. alphastryk: Swamp, Encroach, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven WL 3-3
5. Reeplcheep: Scrubland, Cry of Contrition, Serra Ascendant, Serra Ascendent LL 0-6
6. PJim: Stomping Ground, Orcish Lumberjack, Aluren, Acererak the Archlich LL 0-6
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Forest, Glistener Elf, Invigorate, Berserk LL 0-6
8. silkster: Scrubland, Inkmoth Nexus, Judge's Familiar, Mesmeric Fiend LL 0-6
9. jhhdk: Pendelhaven, Inkmoth Nexus, Blight Mamba, Melira, Sylvok outcast LL 0-6
10. maxx!: Swamp, Putrid Imp, Reanimate, Archon of Cruelty LL 0-6
(EDIT: Archon makes me lose two cards, which I can't recover from. You just don't attack until my guys resolve, however many I choose to play. Then if I chose to keep removal, I will die to PImp. If not, my Baloths just die to Archon.)
11. FTW: Swamp, Inkmoth Nexus, Fatal Push, Mesmeric Fiend LL 0-6
12. RoosterCocoa: Swamp, Encroach, Hangarback Walker, Mishra's Factory LL 0-6
Total: 9 points. Pff...
I don't quite understand this. Why not block Putrid Imp when your Baloth's finally join the party?Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
Oh LOL I thought PImp always had flying, but of course I only play that card in Dredge, where it usually does since that deck plays from the yard anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by jhhdk
Right, I'll have another look.
EDIT: I still die LOL
Testing if I understand this correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
He leads with Pimp and starts swinging, keeping archon in hand.
If you suspend a Baloth he waits for it to unsuspend and reanimates Archon
If you suspend another Baloth he attacks when that unsuspends, at that point you can exile the archon but still lose to Pimp.
Yeah that's what he posted himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by jhhdk
But he can also just drop Archon ASAP, making me discard either the removal spell of a creature. Then he just waits until the other Baloth resolves.
If I discarded the Baloth, he attacks once with Archon, Baloth dies, Recip eats Archon and PImp kills me.
If I discarded Recip, I get to make my second Baloth, but I'll have to sac my team anyway when he attacks with Archon, which I can't block because it flies.
Small question related to next round (I thought better early than late), wouldn't it be better to add counters at the beginning of the main phase?
Text:
14. Vials Galore: Each player starts the game with an Aether Vial emblem in play that has "During your upkeep, you may put a Vial counter on this emblem." and has "(0): Put a creature card from your hand with converted mana cost equal to the number of Vial counters on this emblem onto the battlefield. You can use this ability only once per turn, and then not anymore until your next turn." Additional banning: Suppression Field
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reeplcheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhhdk
Unresolved after both posted, so I'll attempt it.
Melira is useless and gets discarded. It's a race between 2 Infect creatures and 2 Serras.
2 Serras kill on turn 10.
Mamba + Inkmoth kill on turn 7.
Infect is faster in a race.
But J is constrained on mana. J can't regenerate or pump Mamba while attacking with Inkmoth. J also loses regeneration mana if Inkmoth dies first. So R can attack with 1 Serra and leave the other to block. J can only attack with Mamba (otherwise Inkmoth dies & regen mana lost). Serra blocks, Mamba regenerates, and Serra gets a -1/-1 counter. Serra can buy several turns blocking and absorbing -1/-1 counters, tying up J's mana.
Is that enough for Serras to win the race?
R vs J OTP
T1 Serra #1 / Inkmoth
T2 Serra #2, attack for 6 / Mamba [J=94]
T3 Cry discards Melira. Attack for 12 / Attack for 2 Infect [82 life / 2 poison]
T4 Attack for 12 / Attack for 2 Infect [70 life / 4 poison]
T5 Attack for 12 / Attack for 2 Infect [58 life / 6 poison]
T6 Attack for 12 / Attack for 2 Infect [46 life / 8 poison]
T7 Attack for 6, must leave 1 blocker to prevent lethal / Attack with Mamba only. Serra blocks. Regenerate. Serra 5/5 [40 life / 8 poison]
T8 Same thing. Serra 4/4 [34 life / 8 poison]
T9 Same thing. Serra 3/3 [28 life / 8 poison]
T10 Same thing. Serra 2/2 [22 life / 8 poison]
T11 Attack for 6, leave 2/2 blocker / Attack with Mamba. Pendelhaven pumps to 2/3 to kill 2/2 blocker. [16 life / 8 poison]
T12 6/6 Serra must stay back to block / Mamba attacks into 2nd Serra & slowly kills it
J wins at 16 life
R can buy more time by leaving the 6/6 to block on turn 11, so it doesn't die to the next attack.
T11 Attack for 2, leave 6/6 blocker / Attack with Mamba. 6/6 Serra blocks & shrinks to 5/5. [20 life / 8 poison]
T12 Attack for 2 / Serra 4/4 [18 life / 8 poison]
T13 Attack for 2 / Serra 3/3 [16 life / 8 poison]
T14 Attack for 2 / Serra 2/2 [14 life / 8 poison]
T15 Attack for 2 / Pendelhaven pump to 2/3 Mamba, killing Serra [12 life / 8 poison]
T16 Last 2/2 Serra must stay back to block / Mamba attacks and slowly kills it
J wins at 12 life
R still can't win the race.
Blocking earlier with Serra is even worse. R gets in less damage before 2nd Serra is forced to block and J wins at 30+ life.
R can't play for the draw because Blight Mamba can attack through blockers and -1/-1 them to death.
J wins 6-0
Blight Mamba is very strong in this round. It clocks like a 10/10, winning most races. If opponent tries to block, it can regenerate and Wither them down. Anyone who can't answer Blight Mamba probably loses. Unfortunately playing Pendelhaven over Forest cost several matches.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster
Disagreement here.Quote:
Originally Posted by alphastryk
I think GoblinSmashmaster is right. alphastryk can't both maintain the combo and block all the trample damage.
G attacks with 1/1 Elf
Cat blocks
G casts Invigorate only (5/5 Elf)
A gets priority
If A sacrifices the Cat to the Oven, G casts Berserk. 10/5 trample vs missing blocker -> all 10 trample infect damage is assigned to A. G wins.
If A does not sacrifice, combat damage happens. 5/5 kills Cat. No food created. Cat cannot return & 1/1 Elf kills. G wins.
Thank you, I'll update my results.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
6. PJim: Stomping Ground, Orcish Lumberjack, Aluren, Acererak the Archlich
I found myself completely lacking in inspiration, more due to the now large banlist than the round rule, I think. As such, here I am repeating myself.
1. Asthereal (TO): Savannah, Durkwood Baloth, Durkwood Baloth, Reciprocate / 6-0
2. dte: smallpox, memnite, phyrexian tower, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre / 0-6
3. Wrath of Pie: Mountain, Dwarven Ruins, Blood Moon, Keldon Halberdier / 3-3
4. alphastryk: Swamp, Encroach, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven / 3-3
5. Reeplcheep: Scrubland, Cry of Contrition, Serra Ascendant, Serra Ascendent / 0-6
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Forest, Glistener Elf, Invigorate, Berserk / 3-3
8. silkster: Scrubland, Inkmoth Nexus, Judge's Familiar, Mesmeric Fiend / 3-3
9. jhhdk: Pendelhaven, Inkmoth Nexus, Blight Mamba, Melira, Sylvok outcast / 6-0
10. maxx!: Swamp, Putrid Imp, Reanimate, Archon of Cruelty / 3-3
11. FTW: Swamp, Inkmoth Nexus, Fatal Push, Mesmeric Fiend / 3-3
12. RoosterCocoa: Swamp, Encroach, Hangarback Walker, Mishra's Factory / 3-3
33 points
Disagreement here, but pretty sure poison should win OTP. 3-3?Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
Vs WoP and Silk, you should draw OTP I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by jhhdk
This makes sense to me spelled out this way, will update my results.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW