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Made 12th at Jupiter, taking out Scapewish, 12 (or whatever number) Post, Reanimator and Storm. Losses were to LED Dredge and UWr Helm Combo.
Question: what is the plan for Miracles-archetype decks? Do we want to keep in countermagic, or go aggressive with sinkholes etc?
Regardless, got a Russian Clique out of the deal, which will be replacing library in the main.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
Congrats man. I would think I might board out some FOW and dazes for miracles, board in some pierces, thoughtseize and sinkhole to be on the aggresive. With the addtion of sinkholes, your pierces are gonna be much better. Do you board in sinkholes against nic fit? I just realise once their explorer-therapy thingy gets going, its gonna be pretty hard to stop them as they are gonna be dropping deeds, thragtusks and what nots. Whats your general game plan against them?
Against nic fit, take out decays and dismember. Bring in sinkholes and an amount of surgicals (there's an argument to take out dazes on the draw; I say, nic fit loves tapping out). Goals are always to get an early delver flipped, counter explorer and top, hit them with hymn early and kill them before they naturally hit thragtusk. Sinkholes are to blow up forests first, then swamps, then whatever flavor land they chose.Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1987
If you get early pressure and keep them down with this, it should be a cakewalk.
EDIT: also, Tombstalker is a pimp against deed-reliant decks.
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...9&iddeck=75138
I like the list above. Going up to 16 threats seems like a good idea right now, especially the 3rd Tombstalker since he's such a beast against everything that isn't playing Swords to Plowshares. I also like the 3/2 split of Decay/Dismember. I personally would still want to fit a Sylvan Library in there. Not sure about the sideboard choices but it obviously worked out for him. Phantasmal Image is a cool choice to deal with Legendary Creatures or just double up on a threat.
I am surprised to see the three Flooded Strand over the in color shocks. I would imagine that it was a semi-budget choice, not that Strands are cheaper, but perhaps he doesn't have enough Delta's and/or Catacombs. Besides that I like the look of the deck. I imagine that the Phantasmal Images helps the S&T matchup giving you one more chance to draw into an answer cheaply if they can cheat an Emrakul into play without an answer in hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by wcm8
What does everyone think about moving ponder from 4 to 3?
I remember I used to only run 3 Ponders and I've found it to be pretty good. But then again I wasn't running Delver then and rather 2 Cliques. Also I am concerned about the U count. I don't like going below 21 count for FoW.
Also running 3 TS is pretty awesome. Ever since Abrupt Decay became a thing, TS has become a much bigger threat.
I think I would want to punch someone if I opened a 1 lander on the play with a Vendilion Clique staring lustily into my eyes instead of a good ol' pair of merfolk titties.
I'm not a huge fan of Ponder (who is, really?) but I agree: it sucks when you have no cantrip to dig into more mana. 4 is needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by nitewolf9
That said, Clique has been testing swimmingly; I'm also considering cutting Dismember for some other removal. The issue is, there's really no other good removal to run: Vapor Snag was the best thing I found.
Thoughts?
I think Disfigure is much better. It removes the vast majority of threats from most non-cheating creature-based decks that Abrupt Decay/Dismember can remove.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
It won't kill a goyf by itself but it can pretty much kill everything else in Jund and unlike Abrupt Decay, it can kill BBE. Not to mention that casting it turn 1 to get rid of a DSR or a Confidant instead of waiting until turn 2 means you can start the Sinkholes and Hymns a turn earlier. I also run Snapcasters on SB so the recursion of the Disfigure is just gravy on top of all this. It's true that Dismember can fill that role but sometimes that extra 4 life would be really nice.
My thoughts were more on the "dealing with tombstalker" side. Dismember does that, but is overkill for DRS/Bob. Losing 4 is also not fun vs Jund.Quote:
Originally Posted by aznepyon7
Snag basically removes tombstalker, increases clock/tempo marginally, and is FoW pitchable.
Vapor Snag doesn't cut it for me. It's card disadvantage, and that one life doesn't really make the difference. Seal of Removal would perhaps even be better, since it gets rid of the occasional Emrakul.
If you are willing to invest the mana, Recoil is an option. That one is not card disadvantage, and also pitches to FoW. Doesn't really do work in the tempo department though, since it's so slow.
My money is on Disfigure as well. Does a lot of work in the early game, wins Goyf wars. Tombstalker is a nuisance still, but there's always the sideboard.
Id sooner run Go For the Throat than recoil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
Ultimately, it's one slot in the 60. I guess I have been underwhelmed by dismember.
The tempo you get from Snag is so much worse than Submerge. The benefit from Snag is also so narrow (unless you know everything you see in TA or some Tombstalker abusing deck like Eva Green), it's not worth it. Snag on BBE is just godawful for example and it sucks mid-late game. Disfigure would just be better at all stages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
No one plays FoW against Jund so I wouldn't worry about that. If I wanted something to pitch and up the blue count while being overall useful, I could use something like Clique in that spot instead.
If you want to remove Tombstalker, a 4th Liliana is better - it's the only real safe way to remove Tombstalker if you play Jund. With PF Jund, not much should be on the opponent's field anyway. If you're talking from TA's side, it should be a second dismember instead of 4 Abrupt Decays - In fact, I'm starting to dislike 4 Abrupt Decays, Tombstalkers or not.
Yes that's probably the best option against Tombstalker. But if TS is that much of a problem for Jund, it should be maindecked already or at least on sideboard. Liliana is still Jund's best bet IMO. There's just too much for TA to deal with against Jund unless we run the Disfigures and/or Darkblast. i've tried the Darkblast/Disfigures and it works better against Jund; killing the DSR and Confidant T1 is so essential for the Sinkhole plan to work. If you get it early, your chances are good. If not, then you're probably going to lose unless you do something quick. I hate paying 4 life to get rid of Confidant/DSR but it's worth it if you need the Sinkhole plan to work. Of course I could avoid all this by just playing Disfigure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
EDIT: Forgot to put another response.
After losing way too many games due to not being able to find land (or getting flooded), even with Brainstorm, I have become a huge fan of Ponder. If I'm playing a blue deck, I will almost certainly be running some number of Ponders (and if I'm not playing Top/Jace, you can bet it will be 4 copies of Ponder).Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
Got 9th at the MIQ in Elmira. Beat Burn, Esperblade, Pox and 52-card-pickup (dream halls/omniscience/s&t/enter the infinite). Lost to Elves and Punishing Jund, both due to bad draws in game three.
Notes:
Singleton Clique was a boss all day. Saved my team from supreme verdict twice, and was generally amazing whenever it dropped.
Dismember is warming up to me. It's simply a matter of how much mana I have to spend, but it was great at popping goyfs.
Sinkholes wrecked jund whenever they happened. Surgical also was awesome. Jund surgicaled both my seas and wastes game 3; that was the primary reason I lost.
Plague was good vs elves, but apparently they don't fear that card. Perish, despite hurting us, is apparently better.
Not a bad day all in all. Got two snapcasters out of it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
Congrats on your finish! I've tried a singleton Clique and I'm liking it more than the Sylvan Library.
I've stopped going for 4 Abrupt Decays and going 3. I put in a Disfigure in it's place and haven't missed it so far. And yes Dismember is just awesome.
Can you elaborate more on how Perish was better than Plague?
The elaboration consists of one word: Progenitus.
EDIT: Also, Deathrite, and GSZ for enchantment removal.
Abrupt Decay, that's about the size of it. I'm keeping plague for a while, though, since it also interacts with gobs and spirit tokens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
Do you guys take Hymn out against graveyard strategies? If so, does it depend on whether you're on the play or draw?
I think you want to cut the Hymns against Dredge but keep them in against Tin Fins. I'm unsure against Reanimator, but if you do keep them in, obviously, you want to counter their reanimator rather than their outlets (which I would normally do).
Against dredge, it's-4 decay, -4 hymn, -1 dismember, +4 pierce, +3 surgical, +1 crypt, +1 jitte (used to recover from early beats).Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofthepit
Against reanimator/tinfins/oops all spells, I keep in hymn and take out decays and dismember for 3 surgical, 1 crypt, and an approp