Saw your game there. Super awkward. Nice name on those lEDs. To bad he ripped can trips like a boss. The ANT MU I never really liked that much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Royce Walter
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Saw your game there. Super awkward. Nice name on those lEDs. To bad he ripped can trips like a boss. The ANT MU I never really liked that much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Royce Walter
I like the matchup, but it is super awkward that I lost game 1 because I drew all 4 silences instead of mana. Game 2 I'm not sure there's much I could have done, I'll have to watch it when I get a chance.
Thanks to all who responded. After the matter I did some quick calculations. With PiF, there was about a 80% chance of finding a business spell (i.e. Tutor or Wish) versus just 65% with a random draw of 7 new cards. This doesn't consider that any cantrips drawn then have a chance of finding a business spell but that probably wouldn't make up the difference AND the fact you're giving the opponent a brand new hand AND you probably won't be able to use IT without being hellbent.Quote:
Originally Posted by davelin
So what did I do here? Of course in the heat of the moment I ended up casting DimRet and saccing all three LEDS. My new hand was Probe x2, land x2, Brainstorm and LED x2! I probed once to find my opponent had a pyroblast and a Simian Spirit Guide to use it...doh! However the Probe gifted me a Duress which was immediately used to get rid of the blast (my opponent wisely didn't cast it in response). The next probe gave me a RoF, then Brainstorm gave me RoF, a blank and an Infernal Tutor! A more than sufficient Tendrils followed soon. Lucksacking for the win!
Congrats on the finish! Do you recall what other matchups you faced during the swiss rounds and how you fared there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Royce Walter
That is what people do not seem to understand is if you use DR for a hail mary win your going to wiff more then anything. With the board state you described PiF may get you there but may leave you completely open for several turns especially if your opponent who seems to be playing Imperial Recruiter Painter (ie the red version) that most likely does not have FoW to counter anything. Meaning that all they have to interact with you is pyroblast but in going for PiF if you brick which can and may happen especially since now you only have one LED left in deck and if you wiff on PiF you are more then likely either dead the next turn or locked out of the game do to a magus of the moon that makes you find your petals and one remaining LED to win. So your DR while not the clear nuts like we all wish it could be gave you more outs to anything then PiF would also DR is a million times better then people actually give it credit for.Quote:
Originally Posted by davelin
Quote:
Originally Posted by davelin
R1 2-0 Elves. If he'd had Ruric Thar in his deck he could have locked me out on turn 2 in game 2, but he did not. He also could have Zenithed or Natural Ordered for Teeg, but instead he tried to kill me, fizzled, and I kill him on my turn 2 with PiF.
R2 2-0 Affinity. He played 7 cards turn 1 on the play game 1. I played more on my turn 1.
R3 2-1 Nick, 75 card mirror. Nick rode in my car to the event and decided to rejoin Team Storm with myself and Bryant for the weekend. This match was really interesting and if I have time after work I'll explain in detail.
R4 2-0 Goblins. He mulliganned a lot and didn't have any disruption.
R5 2-0 Zoo? with Wasteland, KotR, Countryside Crusher, Wild Nacatl, Noble Hierarch, GSZ. The only disruption he had was Teeg in G2, and I had an Abrupt Decay, won with Ad Nauseam.
R6 2-0 RUG Delver. I knew what he was playing, so I keep Probe, Petal, LED, Dark Ritual, 2 Infernal Tutor, Chrome Mox. Probe him, see Force, Goyf, Stifle, Ponder, lands, draw Rite of Flame from Probe. Play Chrome Mox, imprint Tutor to not get it Stifled, pass. He ponders, shuffles, passes. I draw Silence, play Petal, Silence, it resolves, Dark Ritual off Chrome Mox, LED, Infernal, crack LED for red, Empty for 12 goblins, he concedes. G2 he doesn't pressure me enough and on turn 4 or 5 when I go off I cast Petal, Silence, he Pierces, I cast Dark Ritual in response, pay, he forces the silence. I cast Dark Ritual, LED, LED, Burning Wish for Tendrils with Infernal as my only card left in hand, cast Tendrils. He has a stifle. I pass, he attacks, I untap, Infernal + crack both LEDs for Burning Wish for PiF, flash back rituals, flash back Tendrils.
R7 1-2 Gerard on UWR Delver. G1 I Ad Nauseam on turn 2 when he has 1 unknown in his hand, I stop at 5 to play around Bolt, attempt to Tendrils him. The unknown card is stifle. Frown. Terrible oversight on my part. G2 I don't remember anything except blind Therapy hitting 2 stifles the turn I Tendrils him. G3 he has a Clique, I'm at 6 life, he's at 16, I go to Empty for 16, and he stifles. Oh well.
R8 2-0 Lloyd on Jund. Between round 3 and this round I've now played both of the people that I teamed with to top4 the team sealed in Richmond last week. Fun. Both games I upkeep Silence him several times and eventually Diminishing Returns. G2 I almost managed to throw away because I thought I had an additional Lotus Petal in my Ad Nauseam pile when I stopped at 2 life, but managed to Brainstorm my way out of it. Definitely not solid play there.
R9 2-0 OmniTell. G1 I wish for Therapy twice, he forces the Therapy twice, and doesn't have a third Force for Infernal Tutor-> Ad Nauseam. G2 my hand is 2 Xantid Swarm, 3 Ponder, Brainstorm, City, so I'm ecstatic when he mulls to 6 and plays double Leyline on the play. Eventually Ad Nauseam, Chain of Vapor his Leylines, Tendrils.
R10 draw with Huey Jensen.
Top8 0-2 to ANT, covered pretty well by StarCity. I should have shuffled off the last Ponder game 1. I was also really upset that my breakers tanked in the last round, putting me on the draw in this matchup, but there's not much that can be done there.
Not sure I follow. Whiffing on PiF gives you at least four cards to work with while our opponent is in topdeck mode. Whiffing on DimRet gives him seven new cards and if we whiff, we have a good chance of losing after untapping.Quote:
Originally Posted by maritlage
Sat next to you round 2. Does everyone from Upstate New York have a pimped out version of T.E.S. or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by Royce Walter
That's all to sayQuote:
Originally Posted by davelin
PIF gives you 4 cards, DR 7
PIF gives your opponent 0, DR 7
PIF is a ~86% kill, DR complete random %. It doesn't matter how good the random Returns COULD be if the PIF is an almost guaranteed win.
P.S.: Sorted my notes, thoughts, pictures and begun to write HotS Vol. 5 ... an annoying competition between 5+ RUG, 4+ BUG Control, 2 Elves and at least 3 Deathblades in a Field of 28 players. Stay tuned (have to write something for the Elves thread too)
He didn't have to do anything special, I delayed a brainstorm a turn and whiffed anyway with all the mana in the world and then got savagely discarded into a T4 craterhoof. With better mulliganing and/or luck it would have ended in my favor. I should not be losing that matchup regardless of who that is across from meQuote:
Originally Posted by Kayradis
Yes i will submit that giving your opponent a chance to interact with you with just one unknown in hand and no blue or red manna open is ideal, but with being able to see a total of up to 9 cards with cantrips in GY after PiF u have U/R/B floating meaning that after flashing back Dark Ritual you have BBB/R/U in your yard and only 1 LED left in deck so u would need to hit a land a cantrip, of which you only have 8 left, or BW because if you do not hit a LED or a playable spells you can not go hellbent for IF to fetch BW and you wll need all thhe mana to cast BW and ToA for the win very risky situation especially if you are playing Imperial Painter or another painter deck especially if this is the board state. They have 2 cards in their deck that either out right win them the game or wreck any chance of use winning for a substantial amount of time. So DR is your big out to winning this match all the way in one turn not PiF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
P.S.
Check the OP for win % after DR with the 3 LED's crack for B/U/R and extrapolate from there what the win percentage would be.
Please what? He had 3 untapped lands, 3 LED's and a Wish so after the Wish you have still a recommended UUURB left, an untapped Gemstone and a Dark Ritual to cast. Resulting in 8 mana + 2 free Probe-draws to find infernal or Wish for an immediate kill. If you have to Ponder and Brainstorm you have to either replace the invested mana with another Ritual/LED if you can only find infernal or still Wish for a lethal Tendrils in any state.Quote:
Originally Posted by maritlage
DR may let you continue with a Single cantrip (especially with your suggested mana floating) which may face a REB.
And with 7 disruption spells 4 of which they must counter or just sit there and watch the ToA roll through. DR is a much better engine then PiF. PiF is great only if you can use almost everything in your GY not just trying to cantrip for what you need. Having one untapped gold land and a B/R/UUU floating to cantrip 4 times seeing maybe a total of 9 cards hopefully not hitting any of your 3 fetches left in the deck or your last sea or an IF and aiming for one of 3 BW's left in deck to hopefully be able to play ToA for the win. Read the OP for this thread DR cast with 4 spells, DR being the 4th, which is not the case DR is our 5th, opponent is at 20 life or opponent is at 18, we would have 1 BW exiled and would have U/BB/RR left in pool or chance of winning is far higher then what is quoted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
P.S. proxy up mono red IP and set this situation up and DR X# of times and do the same for PiF and you see DR is way better.
Im fine with PiF. DR and bricking (which happens way too often) means probably GG for you whereas PiF isn't necessarily GG. With PiF at least if you see that you arent going to get there you can just attempt to sculpt something of a hand while your opponent is still needing a way to kill you
There is no need to throw away a 80%+ Chance of winning for a complete random DR especially with PIF giving you a whooping 4 cantrips.Quote:
Originally Posted by maritlage
What's your obsession with the OP example? DR remains a lottery, no matter what and is unnecessary
Here at my computer I'd PiF but I've been known in tournaments to go Dim Ret. Both are fine and have high chances to win, just Dim Ret here has the highest chance of giving the game to your opponent by either giving them disruption for which you can't answer or the win following an unlikely fizzle. I think that's the biggest concern: giving your opponent more of a chance to interactQuote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Then for all its worth I guess I am just a degenerate gambler then but i feel the play is DR. I find PiF with only 4 cantrips and no tutors is the bigger risk then DR.
Royce Walter (Good friend of mine) top 8'd the largest Legacy open ever yesterday and you guys aren't talking about it? God damn shame.
*pats on head* Good boy! You did well! You Top 8 a Starcity Event!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
I was sad to see Royce couldn't convert 4 Silence cast into Victory in G1 of Top 8; so... there's that.
I couldn't stick around to watch the top 8. I don't have any idea how the match went, I heard Royce drew pretty poorly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby