List?Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
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List?Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
Good luck. Would you be okay if you post a report after, whether you do well or not?
Quick post during the event, the list is from memory, will post sideboard later.
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Great Furnace
4x Darksteel Citadel
4x Mox Opal
1x Academy Ruins
4x Ancient Tomb
2x City of Traitors
4x Metalworker
3x Grim Monolith
3x Voltaic Key
4x Phyrexian Metamorph
4x Lodestone Golem
4x Prototype Portal
4x Smokestack
4x Ugin
2x Karn Liberated
2x Blood Moon
3x Tangle Wire
I'm now in the break (lille trial).
Round 1: Waterfalls RUG Cascade 2-1 win
Game 1
I head of with artifact land + opal, second turn artifact land into worker.
He plays brainstorm hymn to tourach and agent into visions, but I play another metalworker and Karn. He does not have FoW, and +4'ing.
He eventually has a board of 2 Agents and 2 Deathrite Shaman, I resolve 2 lodestone golems and he dies.
Game 2
He opens with Thoughtseize on my Blood Moon.
I play Artifact land, Mox Opal, Voltaic Key.
He plays needle on Metalworker (which doesnt work because its a mana ability) and a deathrite shaman
I cast a Whipflare (bad board decision as he has agent and baleful strix), but get rid of his Deathrite Shaman nonetheless.
He plays Hymn to Tourach and pick Smokestack and Metalworker.
I try to resolve another Blood Moon, but he has the FoW and I die.
Game 3
I open with Great Furnace (have 2 and a tomb in hand)
He wastelands my furnace
He plays a deathrite shaman
I play my second furnace, and follow up with ancient tomb + blood moon.
From this point on I basically trample him. There are 2 lands in graveyards, he uses one to resolve a goyf.
Next turn I play a metalworker, and then i follow up with 3 lodestone golems. He Fows 1, blocks one with tarmogoyf (goyf was 4/5), and the other one goes the distance.
I also play Prototype portal with a Smokestack.
Round 2: Burn 2-0 win
Game 1
Deck check! He has 2 mountains too much and I win game 1
Game 2
He opens with a fetch mountain grim lavamancer on the play.
I play Tomb, Monolith, Key, Lodestone Golem
He gets rid of my golem and burns me out, but turn 4 I resolve an Ugin and shoot his lavamancer
He price of progresses me from 12 to 6, he shoots me again to 3, I keep ramping Ugin and ultimate gaining 7 life going to 10. I aend up drawing pretty useless cards (5 mana sources that I dont want to play because of price of progress) but I also get a smokestack, a metal worker and a prototype portal.
I slide the Smokestack under the Prototype Portal and lock him out with Smokestack tokens. When I cast a Lodestone Golem and he has 1 card in hand with nothing on the board, he scoops.
Split for top 8 but cant play it out as i wont be going to lille.
@bruizar: Interesting build. More like a complete lockdown stax with lots of options and mana ramps. Must have been lots of fun playing it.
Yes, it was a blast to play. Here is the rest of the tournament:
Round 3: BUG Delver 1-2 loss
Game 1:
I mulligan game 1. He opens with deathrite shaman and gitaxian probe. He plays a turn 2 delver into brainstorm to set up the flip. Eventually I find an ancient tomb and cast prototype portal imprinting seat of the synod, upon which I use voltaic key to make extra land. His board in the end was 1 flipped, 1 unflipped delver and 2 deathrite shamans (1 with summoning sickness). I'm on 8 life, he swings for 4, and I am one mana short of playing my Ugin without Ancient Tomb. I decide to play Ugin anyway, hoping that he misses his deathrite activation, but he doesn't and I die before I can blow up his entire board.
I boarded in my third blood moon, plus some other stuff.
Game 2:
I have 2 great furnace, 2 blood moons, and an ancient tomb in my opening hand. I open with Great Furnace which meets wasteland. I play Ancient Tomb and he Spell Pierces my Blood Moon. He ponders and probes, but I'm able to resolve my second Blood Moon and he scoops.
Game 3:
Game 3 he's durdling a lot, and I think I can set up a lock with Prototype Portal. I slide Lodestone Golem under it, since he let it resolve, thinking that he wont be able to beat lodestone golem every turn. He surprises me with Pithing Needle and I die.
Game 1 was so close that I felt that I should have won it. I was one life or one mana short of resolving my ugin in his counterless hand and would have killed his entire board, bolt him, and ultimate with Ugin, regaining some life.
Round 4: Reanimate
Game 1:
I open with artifact land into voltaic key. He opens with fetch into faithless looting, dumping tidespout tyrant and grislebrand
I follow up with ancient tomb into metalworker, he forces my metalworker.
On his second turn, he exhumes grislebrand and I bring back my metalworker :-).
He draws 7 cards. I tap metalworker for a zillion mana and I play prototype portal which he forces. I think play smokestack.
I get to put one soot counter on my smokestack but he reanimates tidespout tyrant, and bounces my smokestack. I die.
Game 2:
I misplay pretty badly here. I'm on the play and I open with Ancient Tomb, Grim Monolith, Mox Opal, Blood Moon and Phyrexian Metamorph. I play Ancient Tomb, Grim Monolith and Mox Opal and pass the turn. I should have tapped Grim Monolith, played the Phyrexian Metamorph copying Grim Monolith to enable metalcraft, then tap the metamorph and the mox opal to cast blood moon on the play.
His first turn thoughtseizes my blood moon, and he follows up with another thoughtseize for my business spells. He force of wills my Lodestone Golem, and careful studies. I play Lodestone Golem. He animate dead's Grislebrand, but he's on 14 life. He draws 7 cards and taps out. I play Phyrexian Metamorph copying his grislebrand, he has force of will, but lodestone golem blocks his ability to cast it. I draw 7 cards and he plays Pithing Needle on my (and his, but he's on 7 so whatever) Grislebrand. He can't attack, because my Griselbrand is 7/7 and his Griselbrand is 6/7. On my turn I attack him with Griselbrand, he is forced to block, he gains 6 life going to 13. I did this because he did not have enough mana to cast both careful study/looting and a reanimation turn in 1 turn. I win.
Game 3:
I open a hand with 2x lodestone golem, 1 blood moon, 1 city of traitors, 1 ancient tomb, 1 great furnace.
He thought seizes me and takes my Blood Moon.
I play Great Furnace, he plays brainstorm.
I play Grim Monolith into Lodestone Golem which he dazes.
Then, I resolve another Lodestone Golem which sticks.
I think Phyrexian Metamorph the Lodestone Golem and give beats.
By this time he didn't have any creatures to reanimate in his graveyard so he reanimates my Lodestone Golem, there are now 3 lodestone golems in play.
There is a stand off, he's on 15 and he wants to attack into my lodestone golems but I will not block and alpha strike him instead if he does so. Meanwhile, I don't attack him yet, because he's super mana screwed under 4 golems. When I find another metamorph, i copy the golem again, and alpha strike him dead.
Round 5: Omniscience - Intentional draw into top 8
We play it out, I win the first game, but lose the other 2 games through SNT -> Omniscience -> Emrakul.
This is the exact list I played:
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Great Furnace
4x Darksteel Citadel
4x Mox Opal
1x Academy Ruins
4x Ancient Tomb
2x City of Traitors
4x Metalworker
3x Grim Monolith
3x Voltaic Key
4x Phyrexian Metamorph
4x Lodestone Golem
4x Prototype Portal
4x Smokestack
4x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2x Karn Liberated
2x Blood Moon
3x Tangle Wire
SIdeboard:
2 Dack Fayden
2 Goblin Welder
2 Pyroblast
4 Whipflare
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Blood Moon
2 Sphere of Resistance
The sideboard was pretty terrible. The blood moon, however, was golden!
So, my purpose was to test the performance of an artifact land / mox opal based manabase as well as prototype portal as a pseudo Thran Turbine that doubles as a threat. More specifically, I had 4 Ugin and 2 Karns in the list to test the limits of the mana curve without the full set of sol-land or the inevitability of the 12 post manabase. Through out the tournament I played every card in the deck, but I did stumble upon the 8 CC of Ugin at a critical point, so there are definitely limits.
I really enjoyed Mox Opal as well as Darksteel Citadel for being a wasteland-proof first land drop and a free 'exploration'. As you guys will know by now, I have problems letting go my colored sideboard options in MUD, so the addition of colored lands made me more comfortable playing the deck. Especially Blood Moon was a game-winning card several times. The super-type rule with Blood Moon is nice because you get to keep metalcraft with basic artifact mountains.
Prototype Portal was sometimes really good, particularly if I have an active metalworker or when I could imprint artifact land on it. Otherwise, it was incredibly slow as a threat. The deck should be tuned better for Prototype Portal if that card remains in the 75. For instance, imprinting a Tormod's Crypt against graveyard decks is very strong, but you need to be able to ramp to 4 mana quickly. The deck I played was pretty bad, but I piloted it better than my opponent's piloted their decks. I hardly made any mistakes and it shows that you can take a pile and still win against a net-deck environment.
Although I do attest that at this moment the colorless post variant is by far the dominant decklist and recommend anyone to play the most competitive build, I will continue to test colored fringe variations of MUD to contribute / explore the limits of our archetype so that it may evolve in the future.
Thanks! Really interesting to read :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
I think if you're gonna splash for red, you might as well play Welder or Daretti.
As for more lockdown Cloudpost builds, I think Winter Orb could be really good against the Midrange matchup which this deck usually has a hard time. The deck doesn't really get affected by Winter Orb (if you lower your curve) because Cloudposts could produce 3+ mana. I can also see Winter Orb shine in MUD that uses artifact mana acceleration.
I brought 2 welders in the sideboard but never really needed them that day. I expected to run into more spell pierce for which I could use welder, especially in conjunction with all the artifact land I played.
Perhaps you may not have seen it, but notably absent in my deck list was Chalice of the Void. I forgot to mention it, but I just wanted to try out and see for myself whether Chalice of the Void was REALLY the card that makes the archetype tick. It was an (intentional) mistake not to bring Chalice of the Void but apparently the raw strength of the deck and a little bit of luck made up for it.
I think I violated every single deck building rule for this archetype in one deck and managed to top 8 with it :-) Hypothesis confirmed.
Well, when I used to play the comboesque Welder build, I didn't run Chalices in the main. Instead I relied on Tangle Wires to disrupt my opponent. I did have Chalice and Trinisphere on the side for certain matchups.
I know people are set on playing Coercive Portal as a 1 of 2 off, but i feel that Staff of Nin's timmy ability is more imprtant here dus to being able to take out Revoker, Clique, Snapcaster, Pyromancer, etc.. so i am considering to run 2 staffs on the board for mu's where they matter as much a Portal would matter. What do you guys think?
I agree that the damage ability from staff of nin has been handy to get through some dudes, or even damage straight to their face, is really handy. Its been making me debate running either a 1 and 1 split in the full 75, or even bumping up to a 2 and 1 split for portal and staff. . Either way, the main point of these cards are for card advantage, and portal can more efficiently come down faster. So, your card advantage puts you on big angry uncounterable cavern of souls fatties, to just overpower these weenies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Also, staff of nin makes a very lackluster forgemaster target, as it doesn't apply enough pressure by itself to justify the sacrifice of 3 other artifacts, most times, in those matches.
Well against decks where want to see cardadvatage speed actually is not an issue (or at least it will start to make difference from midgame on). So the difference between 4 or 6 mana should not be that much of an issue. Both make a crappy Forgemaster target, but if i where to have a choice i can see Staff makes a better one. Also in case of the DnT matchup there might be situations where it shoots a Revoker set on Ugin or Hellkite. In this case making it a perfect Forgemaster target. Also i see benefit against Miracles (clique and snapcaster, while creating "double" cardadvatage and not being able to use plows or terminus on that.)Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHawkX9
Sure I noticed my favorite card was missing. I'm thinking about testing your list including chalice. Since it doesn't hurt yourself and hurts many many other decks I'd never leave home without it :cool: I guess this list could become even stronger then, but testing will tell us I guess :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
Chalice seens great for that list because it stops the opponent from landing cheap stuff to feed smokestack, and you can even drop it for 0 for that issue. I sure hope to see more development on that list, it seems very interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwave
I am going to try 2 Portal this Friday. I fee the timmy ping of Staff of Nin is great, but not quite 6 mana great in all MU's. Will report on what I find.
I agree. Staff is marginally better, even with the added cost. It's the exception, not the rule, but I had a game once against esper where we where stalled for a long time. He had a stoneforge, tnn and a batterskull with the token but no mana to equip, so he needed to keep bouncing so my wurmcoil wouldn't grant me life. We went to 5 turns. I had no greaves and he was on 2 life, so I kuldotha'ed for staff and bonked his head twice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
So in preperation of GP Lille i was jamming some games with friends and decided to play MUD as a possible deck for the GP. After having some serious losses while playing exhausting and grindy games with both NicFit and BUGStill i wanted to play something that is much faster. And with fine result. Played multiple games:
4-2 ANT
1-2 DnT
2-0 Oozing
2-3 BUG Delver
Could have done better, but made some major errors. Good for the learning process. Focus will be on DnT, BUG, UWR and Stoneblade where i have the most trouble with. It seems that MUD will be my deck for Lille. MUD feels like it is in a good position right now.
@Bobmans: Good luck to you!
For BUG, I was consistently playing against it this week and had less than 40% win ratio on more than 40 games playing Stax, combo, and stompy (changing lists trying to find a build that would consistently beat BUG). Then I decided to focus on the list I know best (Stax) and made some tweaks with how I play. With the same lists for my Stax (that i had been losing with) and opposing BUG, I was able to win 7/10 games... Weird how changing the way you play increases your probability to win...