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I like Nether shadow more than ashen ghoul, but when you are going DR less the ghoul offers more damage, but it cost mana, so...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
also, I allways go for the draw spell rather than the creature, the choice is obvious, but it makes ashen ghoul a dead meat in our gy
Rockin' Dredge at another GPT tommorow, hopefully I can manage better than 4-2(11th) this time. Wish me luck fellow Zombies.
Good Luck!
Played at MTG Deals this past weekend. There were 49 Players at the tournament which meant 6 rounds of swiss with a cut to top 8.
I played the traditional Quadlazer Dredge list (+1 Dread Return, -1 Breakthrough)
Round 1: Shardless BUG
Games: 2-0 Match: 1-0
Round 2: RUG Delver
Games: 2-0 Match: 2-0
Round 3: Maverick
Games: 2-0 Match: 3-0
Round 4: Omniscience
Games: 2-0 Match: 4-0
Round 5: Reanimator (ID)
Games: Drw Match: 4-0-1
Round 6: Elves (ID)
Games: Drw Match: 4-0-2
So with that I make top 8. Ultimately I end up in 4th which pairs me against the Reanimator deck in the 1st round (=__=) of top 8.
Game 1: We both don't really have much. I kept a hand with Cabal Therapy, land, couple of draw spells, LED, Imp, Ichorid but no dredger. I figure since I was on the play I can cast Cabal Therapy and get a chance to nab Entomb (This is what I normally call against reanimator as its there only realiable way to get to their Elesh Norn.) Fortunately for me he doesn't have too much action outside a pair of cantrips. Eventually I draw an LED and a Dredger which allowed me to flashback a faithless looting to start to pull ahead while his brainstorms find him nothing.
Game 2: My opening hand has the coffin purge which is amazing, however, he had the turn 1 Entomb, lotus petal, reanimate into.. Griselbrand (he wanted the safer choice to recur as he was fearing a chain of vapor). Despite giving me a small opening Grisel eventually allows him to draw into a ton
more action until he eventually reanimates an Elesh to close the door.
Game 3: My opponent mulligans to 5 (Iona, Shield of Emeria, verdant Catacombs, 2x Exhume, and Entomb). My opening hand contains a land, coffin purge, draw spell, Cabal Therapy, Dredger, and some other cards. On the play I cast the Cabal Therapy naming Entomb once again and hit. He just lays the verdant and passes back. I cast my careful study to begin the fun which allowed me to draw into an LED. I wanted to remove the exhume from his hand asap before he draws into another entomb which signals me to flashback my cabal therapy off a Putrid Imp. What ended up happening was he drew additional exhume over the last two turns and I take all 4 of them leaving him with the lone Iona. I was then able to clean up from that point.
So with that victory I make Top 4 which would mean I play the same Omni player from the swiss. He admits its not the best matchup as Omni tends to be a turn or so slower, however, at this point its pretty late and we all just wanted to go home. So we split $145 a piece and call it a night. :D
If anyone has a specific question regarding any of my matches I will try to recall as best I can and answer questions. But what I wanted to talk mainly about was my SB.
The most recent incarnation of my SB:
2x Nether Shadow (Might replace these, I don't really worry too much about surgical and I haven't seen them played in my meta recently).
1x Ingot Chewer (Corner out to Cage & General artifact hoser)
1x Ancient Grudge
2x Pithing Needle
1x Dread Return
1x Ashen Rider
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Tarnished Citadel
1x Undiscovered Paradise
1x Coffin Purge (My only grave hate. Doesn't disurpt my gameplan. If I happen to open a hand with it its a nice surprise)
3x Wispmare (straight up concession to the Miracle matchup. I deem them absolutely necessary as my meta has a good number of Miracle players roaming about, also application against Maverick, UWR Delver, aka other decks with RIP out of the board)
I know I'm not playing any Nature's Claim. Let me explain. The idea is to board into a plan that doesn't stop what you're naturally wanting to do i.e.. being proactive instead of reactive. Against faster combo like Storm or Belcher I want to board in the extra DR and the Iona usually cutting an Ichorid and a Putrid Imp. It gives me an additional angle of attack.. because sometimes you have to be degenerate as well its why you play this deck. As a side note in the Storm matchup its not completely questionable to board in that Ancient Grudge as marginal as it may be sometimes they lay down an LED then cast another which allows you to cast the Grudge in response and nuke the one already in play; this should throw off their math.
Against most fair decks the idea is still to board minimally even though it seems counter intuitive with my build seeing as how I board in lands. I normally board out an ichorid and Putrid Imp for them which is usually the cut players make to their MD anyway. So with this in mind I usually board out the 3x Breakthrough and 2x LED which allows you to bring in some combination of 5 cards. Note none of this is set in stone and I'm just giving insight on the boarding strategy given my current selections. Moving on. I like to keeep in a couple of LEDs because against fair decks I still want the chance for a strong opening play and other times it acts as a means to pay for taxing counters like Spell Pierce out of RUG.
Artifacts got you down? Board in 2x Pithing Needle, Ancient Grudge, and Ingot Chewer. Echantments causing you grief? Board in those nasty little Wispmares. Surgical Extraction/Extirpate running a muck? Make life more difficult for your opponents by bringing in extra recurable creatures in Nether Shadows. Occasionally I board in the extra DR to put additional pressure on these types of effects; they cannot hit every meaningful card (Bridge From Below, Ichorid, Cabal Therapy, Dread Return, Dredgers, etc..) so usually 1 surgical will not be enough. To me it seems surgical was more annoying when it was paired with Snapcaster Mage, but thanks to DRS snappy has lost some of its allure.
Or bring up a scenario and I can give some notions as to the plan I would consider. Overall just trying to be helpful even if my decisions may not be 100% correct. This is what I've ended up with and I will provide more background as to why I've chosen these specific cards if prompted.
@Que- Nice job, 8-0 through swiss is very impressive! How often do you find yourself actually blowing up or nullifying opposing hate? I'm asking because it has only happened once for me in the past 2 tourneys, where I needled a Shaman, but it was irrelevant anyways as I had multiple dredgers and won with ease.
I made top8 of the gpt. There were only ~26 players or something, which was good because the store was small and prizes were guaranteed.
In the swiss I went up against Burn 2-0, SneakShow 2-0, UG12post 0-2, RUG 2-0, and ID'd with ShardlessBUG. Got paired against UBTezz in the top8 and he was 4th seed so he got the play. We both go back for 6 and he gets the nuts of turn1 Chalice turn 2 Tezz and it's soon over. Game2 I mull all the way down to 3 and never cast a spell :(. My 5 card hand was 3 Narco, 2 Ichorid lol. I probably should have played out my last match to snag 1st seed but I wasn't thinking of it at the time. The top 8 had five really favorable matchups for me with BUG, 3 RUG(1punishing) and Burn, then Tezz as a slightly unfavorable and TurboDrazi as unfavorable. The chick I beat round1 playing burn went on to the finals after taking down RUG and the Tezz player, where her and Shardless split with her taking the byes(congratz!).
I still had a good time, the tournament went smoothly and the judge was cool. With my credit and a few trades I walked out with a Bayou. Not bad considering I got only an hour of sleep for this thing.
I couldn't go to my tour this weekend =/ had to visit my grandfather in the hosptial
congrats on you both on the finish!
I went to BoM 8 this weekend, taking dredge for 1 trial and the main event.
My list was Quadlaser, -1 Ichorid and +1 Tarnished Citadel. In the sideboard I put no anti-hate in the trial, but swapped out the Firestorms for Needles at the main event. Also cut the Flayers for Ancient Grudge.
Results were horrid I'm sad to say.
I played the morning trial with delver after playing that deck for the first time the night before. I drop out in time for the 2nd trial, grabbing dredge.
Trial
Round 1
I get paired against an Esperblade player. I destroy him game 1 when he scoops turn 2 after I won the die roll. Game 2 he slows my hand with counters, getting a Batterskull active with a SFM removing all my bridges. Game 3 I get there, blind therapying SFM. Afterwards he tells me he has RiP, but he never mulled for them.
Round 2
Against Junk it's a grindy game 1. I kept a hand that wasn't really explosive, but had quite some redundancy. I proceed to grind him out with Ichorids and zombies. Game 2 he gets 2 Tidehollow Scullers on my drawspells after I whiff Therapy on a RiP he didn't have. So game 3 I safely let lose and kill him quickly with Elesh active.
Round 3
I meet my first ever Charbelcher match, and they're faster. He kills me turn 1 and 2, not much I could have done differently I believe.
Round 4
PainterStone and this guy gets nutty draws games 1 and 3. Two Grindstone activations on turn 3 leave me out of contention for a bye. Game 1 should have played my therapy on Servant after he dropped a turn 1 Grindstone.
I dropped the last round as it was already 10 o'clock or something and me and my mates went for dinner (both went 6-1 in the main trial playing ANT)
Will report on the main event later on.
Yeah I would say most of my game 2 wins were on the back of them keeping a decent 7, however, it didn't come with any piece of grave hate and eventually they succumbed to the zombie horde. This is why I like the idea of using cards like Ingot Chewer and Ancient Grudge which aren't really necessary in your opening hand game 2, but you have access to them in some vain; we aren't playing with brainstorm afterall.Quote:
Originally Posted by HammafistRoob
I did terribly at SCG LA. I didn't realize numerous graveyard based decks were actually going to be played this day. I went in there with my traditional board, however, I ran into the likes of Tin Fins as well as the mirror during the day. <__<;
Round 1 was against Jund. My opener included no land but it did have LED and Faithless looting. After his opening play was Badlands pass I went for it on my turn and overloaded the graveyard. Eventually I generated a far enough advantage to obtain the concession. Game 2 dragged on a bit with me trying to avoid committing dredgers to my yard in the face of two deathrite shaman. I was ultimately looking for any of the 2 pithing needles I had boarded in for the matchup before I could start to claw back into it. Unfortunately this does not happen and he eventually kills me with the DRs, Tarmogyf, and some Liliana disruption. Game 3 don't remember too well. I just remember a slew of zombies on the back of a generous dredge which allowed me to DR a Giant Troll.
Round 2 was the Mirror. I know I didn't have much in my sb outside of the lone Coffin Purge and the DR package with Iona shutting off black. I guess this is one of those matchups were you would rather have Elesh Norn *shrugs. The problem here was he won the die roll. Game 1 he rolls me. Game 2 I roll him with an early DR into Iona and Game 3 he gets me with the nuts. This matchup left a bitter taste. I definitely did not expect the Dredge mirror especially recently with the local decline. I really should be more mindful at bigger tournaments though.
Round 3 was BUG Tempo (Denis Ulanov Top 8 Competitor)
I knew this was a decent matchup, however, Denis is a tight player and I was still a little salty about the last loss. I take the play and lead with a faithless looting, however, it meets a FOW and then my land meets a wasteland. Denis' early disruption coupled with early pressure really made it difficult for me. Eventually he gets down a Tombstalker along with a Delver to put me on a two turn clock. I realize that if I make a big enough Troll he would have to leave the stalker or Delver home so I do just that. However that move was made on the assumption he didn't have an additional blocker in his hand. I had already seen his hand from cabal therapy earlier and knew he had a Tarmogoyf. I screwed up here and didn't Flashback Therapy to take it which throws off my math. Bone head play eventually costs me game 1 *punt. Game 2 he has some early disruption again and I never really get off the ground. I had awkward hardcast Thug wanting to Flashback Therapy, but with that trigger would be terrible. I think I try to forget the rest lol.
Round 4 Was Tin Fins. Faster combo and I again boast no grave yard hate. Not to mention he brought in Surgical Extraction which slowed me down a game where it mattered.
I decided to call it after the 1-4 showing. I still have a couple of tournaments before the legacy open in Vegas (I thought I was qualified for the Invi this season, however, my points from my SCG Top 8 didn't carry over) which should get me the preparation I need. Though admittedly I don't practice enough. ^_^;;
Congrats :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Que
We are testing a bit with the Quadlaser maindeck and sideboard. While the maindeck performed well the sideboard was quite disappointing lately. We took the proactive route same as you.
Our first set of cards we tested was a playset of Pithing Needle. They performed good against artifact hate, DRS and Scavanging Ooze while on the starting seven but I more and more dislike that they weaken the dinsity of threats in your grave while not in hand. Right now they are still in the board but I would like to have a solution that has not to be drawn naturally :/
Next set were two different Dread Return packages consisting of 2 Dread Return, Griselbrand and either Iona or Elesh Norn (depending on the matchup). Dread Return was a great card both pre- and postboard (we moved it to the main later, because we need two more SB slots cutting 1 Ichorid and 1 Breakthrough).
Iona and Elesh did well though the greatest boost came through Dread Return itself. Griselbrand served as a second copy of the used target because he will easily search for it when found first. Although the targets were good we are not completly sold on them...most oft the time Dread Return on Golgari Thug (with a followed up Cabal Therapy and Narcomoeba put on top) / Stinkweed Imp (to scare flyers away) / Ichorid (for even more token) / Golgari Grave-Troll (to put on pressure) was more then enough.
Next comes up a playset of Chain of Vapor. We didn't want to be completly cold to Leyline of the Void and Grafdigger's Cage, both of which can be handled reasonably well by Chain of Vapor. Nature's Claim was no option without the extra lands in the sideboard and even if Chain of Vapor is a lot worse against Rest in Peace both doesn't help you here most of the time.
Last but not least we kept Leyline of the Void in the sideboard because the combined numbers of Dredge, Tin Fins, Reanimator and Oops all spells were reason enough for us to keep it.
We did not miss any additional lands in the maindeck und are pretty satisfied with the Dread Returns. The sideboard however is still a work in progress.
Nevertheless, this is what it looks like right now:
Deck: Dredge http://deckstats.net/mana/m/u.gif http://deckstats.net/mana/m/b.gif http://deckstats.net/mana/m/r.gif http://deckstats.net/mana/m/g.gif
//Dredger
4 Golgari Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
//Lands
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Cephalid Coliseum
//Discard & Enabler
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Putrid Imp
4 Careful Study
4 Faithless Looting
3 Breakthrough
//Business
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge from Below
4 Narcomoeba
3 Ichorid
2 Dread Return
//Sideboard
4 Pithing Needle
4 Chain of Vapor
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
http://i.hbtronix.de/chart_pie.png Show Deckstats
Our boardingplans were basically to reduce Ichorid, Breakthrough, Putrid Imp and Golgari Thug down to 3.
Since we already did this to bring in the maindeck Dread Returns, we only board out Putrid Imp and Golgari Thug when bringing in Griselbrand + the specific target.
In the Matchups we bring...say Leyline of the Void we boardet out the 2 Dread Return, Putrid Imp and Golgari Thug and so on.
We wanted to keep the deck as intact as we can after boarding.
Just some of our current ideas to LED-Dredge and its sideboard.
I thought it might be interesting because you seem to follow a similar philosophy with boarding and leaving the maindeck as intact as possible.
Perhaps someone has an idea for tweeks as we are not really sure about the Pithing Needles and the targets right now.
Nevertheless it feels good to let Elesh Porn deliver the grand genocide again ;)
Greetings Mindlash
I'm not sure I follow. How is Chain of Vapor better than Nature's Claim, when both cost one, but you specify that Claim is not an option without the land? Is it solely that Cephalid Coliseum produces blue?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindlash
Chain of Vapour is easier to cast but is a worse effect. Still it is handy to have when you need it.
I like my Nature's Claims more, if only because they are Russian :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Well that's a personal choice I guess. Personally I find if you are going balls to the wall on Hate in your sideboard you need 14 lands Min. That is my land count with two Undiscovered as 13/14. In my view it is the great weakness of Quad, it has only 12 lands and only 8 of them are Rainbow. For this reason I would always suggest adapting it if your going to run it because you really do need that land.
I have 3 Undiscovered Paradise in my sideboard to support the Nature's Claims. I was thinking of trying Pithing Needle, but finding the space is the issue because my Dread Returns are in the sideboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Land is no help in the side. You need the extra land to make for a more smooth running of the draw and discard spells. Game one you want to make sure you get that right mix every time.
Yes the deck can Mull to 4 and win turn 2, but that's rare and its better to just make smoothness a priority.
Yes this is the sole reason of my statement. 12 lands are able to cast Chain of Vapor while only 8 are able to cast Nature's Claim. I agree that Nature's Claim is a better option overall, but once you bounce Leyline of the Void it should not be recasted anyways. You could also use Cabal Therapy on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ween
Against Grafdigger's Cage you could dredge on and bounce it eot before your critical turn. Cabal Therapy works here as well.
But I have to admit Chain of Vapor was only an emergency solution because I could not support the extra lands for Nature's Claim and did not want to be cold to hate.
I wanted to play the extra mana as well at first but I couldn't find more slots to cut after boarding. 1 Putrid Imp and 1 Golgari Thug come to mind coming from our maindeck. I would play 1 Undiscovered Paradise and 1 Tarnished Citadel because 2 Undiscovered Paradise do not support turn 2 Cephalid Coliseum well.
Have to look for two additional cuts after boarding then. Any suggestions?
Another question regarding Quadlaser: Do you often have to mulligan for lands? I nearly never found me mulliganing with Quadlaser and I was not light of lands either...only critique on Quadlaser was the sideboard to me...
Greetings Mindlash
My mulligans are more often for a discard outlet or a dredge creature, very rarely do i need to go back for lands.
I have before yes. Because you really need to start off the special D,D,D set alongside your mana. Now you only have 8 mana on the base build to fire off a Faithless, cast an Imp or cast Therapy. Yes, I have been hurting for mana before on the quad, that's why I say run 14.
Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.
hello, I am relatively new to dredge. I have the deck built and am not really sure what the sideboard is...I plan on playing at the gp and this is my only real competive deck so I want to play this. Can any recommend a final list and a sideboard?
Last few pages have loads of list+sideboards+discussion. Pick what you like best.Quote:
Originally Posted by lnmloner
My question for quadlazer with 14 lands is, what do you leave out? You can drop Putrid imp, but he's one of 12 discard outlets (16 if you count LED). You can cut a Breakthrough (one of 16 drawspells, counting Coliseum), but they're awesome in game 1. You can cut a dredger (one of 12, and why would you do that to get lands over 12?) Or you can cut utility like Cabal Therapy (always a bad choice imo) or Ichorid. So I guess it's tick down one ichorid and one breakthrough for you?
I have played quadlazer dredge for almost a year now, with 3 ichorids and 1 flexspot. This spot has been the 13th dredger (darkblast), the 13th land (Tarnished Citadel) and Dread Return. Out of all of those I like the DR best, as it gives you an explosive turn. I have never been that happy with playing a 13th land, let alone number 14. Then again I have played without anti-hate for a good time now. The meta seems to be getting more hostile nowadays, but then it might be just time to shelve the deck for a while.
Could you explain a bit more on the 14 lands? Maybe someone has some math to back it up, as I just have gut feeling :P.
Run 14 lands and not look back IMO, I'd rather run more lands than DRs
About the guy who asked for a sideboard, Dredge unlike other tier decks, does not have a fix sideboard because the deck is meta dependant, so it's natural that the deck has no fix sideboard.