My opponent played Eldrazi Temple, and he prayed to the wrong gods.
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My opponent played Eldrazi Temple, and he prayed to the wrong gods.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbtuwXdVAAEU6XM.jpg:large
I just got back from the CardKingdom Legacy 1k, boasting 74 players, and damn this deck is fine. I placed 12th, losses purely from lucksack opponents and bad beats. Obviously. A friend playing 73 of Koby's 75 (I convinced him to swap a second Top for the LDV) got 20th after I beat him in the last round. I'm not going to say it's busted, but I'm not sure if I should be allowed to have this much fun...
// 15 lands
2 Flooded Strand
1 Island
2 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Children of Korlis
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Griselbrand
4 Entomb
2 Reanimate
3 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Shallow Grave
// Sideboard
2 Chain of Vapor
3 Dark Confidant
2 Flusterstorm
4 Monastery Mentor
2 Serenity
2 Swords to Plowshares
Going to have to say that the 75 was perfect. Lim Dul's Vault is a bad card, and Top is not. I used it to dig for the card I need, draw the second of a needed pile, bait force, and more. Having two basics was consistently awesome. The second reanimate was very relevant post board and didn't really miss Tendrils preboard. You just don't fizzle often, and when you do you almost always can win next turn.
Of course the Mentor plan was gas. I was finding that Pithing Needle didn't do anything and Chain of Vapor generally sucks with Mentor, so my anti-creature package is Swords, which also is insane with Mentor against Delver. More importantly, I stopped boarding out the combo - even when you bring in 4 Mentor, 3 Bob, 2 Plow, the other stuff isn't usually needed so there's room for 3 Entomb, 2 Shallow Grave, 2 Reanimate, 1 Griselbrand left in the deck (cutting 3 Goryo's Vengeance, 2 Shallow Grave, 1 Entomb, 1 Griselbrand, 1 Children, 1 Emrakul). This makes the opponent have to respect the graveyard combo; Griselbrand can draw into creatures and removal; and plays well with Mentors for the most part.
The meta was almost a complete 180 from the previous 1k - instead of piles of Miracles and Storm, with Aggro Loam placing disproportionately, today had 10% of the field on Aggro Loam, like another 10% on Grixis Delver, and only a few Miracles players with something close to a 40% top 8 conversion rate.
R1 - RUG Delver
G1: I drew 14, going to 9 postcombat, without evaluating how utterly garbage the first 7 was, against his board of unflipped Delver. Possibly incorrect because I knew that I would have to slog through Waste + Daze + Spell Snare to re-combo next turn since I drew 1 reanimation spell, 1 hand disruption spell, 3 cantrips, and otherwise lands and creatures. He ended up drawing Bolt + Bolt over the next two turns while I stripped his hand to go off. Utterly frustrating.
-1 Griselbrand, -1 Children of Korlis, -3 Goryo's Vengeance, -1 Sensei's Divining Top; +4 Monastery Mentor, +2 Swords to Plowshares
Bob is usually too slow and Delver too aggressive. The combo plan is decent against them but so is Mentor.
G2: He has a turn 2 Delver which flips, and I set up Monastery Mentor with Plow for Delver and Thoughtseize to take his Clique. He Brainstormed into Daze for Mentor, Force for Plow, and Pierce for my backup Entomb + Shallow Grave for Griselbrand. Absolutely unreal. I was incredibly tilted after this match, but some pickup games of vintage calmed me down.
0-1
R2 - Goblins
It turns out he played my friend on TinFins last round and lost handily. And so it goes again. Game 1 I went off on turn 2, game 2 I declined to board in the man plan. Instead I boarded 2 Top, 2 Thoughtseize for 2 Plow, 2 Serenity. Didn't really matter, he didn't interact and I killed him turn 2 again.
1-1
R3 - Aggro Loam
My first of 3 aggro loam opponents. Game 1 I had a slow start missing the "in", but then lo and behold I drew Griselbrand. He plussed Liliana and took me to like 9, then I comboed off and killed him.
-1 Griselbrand, -1 Children of Korlis, -1 Emrakul, -2 Thoughtseize, -3 Goryo's Vengeance, -1 Entomb, -2 Shallow Grave; +4 Monastery Mentor, +3 Dark Confidant, +2 Swords to Plowshares, +2 Serenity
I had an early Mentor which went uncontested. Won that game easily.
2-1
R4 - Aggro Loam
I'll be honest, this match totally fades into the others. I won 2-0, Mentor and Serenity were insane, etc.
3-1
R5 - Grixis Delver
G1 he kept Brainstorm, Deathrite, 5 lands on the play because he knew what I was on. Oh how I wanted to punish him. I didn't quite have the turn 1, and his Brainstorm kept me off balance long enough for him to take it.
-1 Griselbrand, -1 Children of Korlis, -1 Emrakul, -3 Goryo's Vengeance, -1 Entomb, -1 Shallow Grave, -1 Dark Ritual; +4 Monastery Mentor, +3 Bob, +2 Swords to Plowshares
G2 He Forced my turn 1 Top, which I couldn't be happier about. My turn 2 Mentor wasn't Dazed or Forced, and my Probe showed smooth sailing from there. Delver doesn't race Mentor when I have 14 life to play with.
-3 Bob; +1 Entomb, +1 Shallow Grave, +1 Emrakul
G3 Bob on the draw against Grixis is just too slow. They put on pressure and he doesn't attack or block well. He is pretty smug about his turn 1 Deathrite Shaman. My hand with Entomb, Shallow Grave, a few lands, and a couple cantrips is looking bad until I draw Reanimate off the top and Lotus Petal off of Probe. He has no disruption and I have a turn 1 Griselbrand. Big G beats him down to 1 and me to 23 - it's incorrect to draw cards against the Delver / Bolt / Stifle deck - when he desperately digs into his one-outer in Murderous Cut. I respond by drawing 7. So I have a choice between playing a Mentor and making a couple of monks against his board of Deathrite, Young Pyromancer, and 4 tokens; or instead Plowing Deathrite, taking his Force in hand, taking the hit for 6 (with me at 11 from Probe + fetch), and planning on casting Shallow Grave for the kill. I decided on the latter, and good thing because he had the Dread of Night in hand.
4-1
R6 - Aggro Loam
G1 Again. This time he has turn 1 Mox Diamond pitch Grove, Karakas, Chalice on 1. Turn 2 Bob. Kold. I make sure to play on enough to discard Griselbrand so that he boards in his grave hate.
G2 I have a turn 3 Mentor which I think should just be game. My Serenity kills a Chalice on 1. Then I draw several lands, his Bob flips only 0s while he draws gas including a second Chalice, and I find that I've traded Monks for damage to put him at 6, but a gigantic Scavenging Ooze and Knight put me away. Not really sure what happened this game because all the individual attacks seemed fine, but the general course of the game makes me think I could have played differently - like sat back until a giant alpha strike.
4-2. Ded.
R7 - TinFins
Yeah the only other TinFins player in the room, and we get paired in the last round. I have good draws and beat him. Reanimate is not great in the mirror.
5-2, good for 12th place
explain this to Randy when you see him next (he asked why i played top when we played the Tendrils mirror at the last 1K).Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmutant
was nurturing my local French list scene today instead of coming down but i'll see you at the next one with this 75. nice work. I've only had the opportunity to run the bob/mentor plan once but it was BONKERS. ask Matt.
any Eldrazi sightings?
I was there and saw at least 2 Eldrazi lists, though I'm not sure how they placed.Quote:
Originally Posted by warfordium
@Phazon - How do you like the 2 Swords in the board? Are they for clearing the way for mentor, or do you find yourself using them to snipe hatebears? Or maybe it's best to board in the Mentors against the hatebear decks anyway?
Also, surprised to not see at least one Cavern of Souls hanging out in the board. Did you miss it at all?
How do u guys side in the bob/mentor plan?
For example in miracleS?
I haven't gotten to play as much lately as I wanted to, but I like that 75 a lot. As I've been trying to find ways to slightly cut down on the power level of the maindeck to shore up the sideboard plan, I will finally concede that possibly cutting the Tendrils is right. Will have to try that sometime - although I might use that slot for the 2nd LDV if that were the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmutant
While I certainly do agree that LDV isn't as good of a card as SDT, I have a need to run Massacre in my local meta, although I would like to only run 1. And I also really like having access to Cavern of Souls against Miracles as a singleton. LDV helps a lot with finding them.
Swords seems pretty rad as an answer to creatures. Usually when I'm playing needle I'm naming either Wasteland or Deathrite. Swords takes care of half of that, and you are running 2 basics maindeck, so that probably helps a lot with the other half of that.
Flusterstorm against Combo mirrors and Tempo decks? Did you find yourself light on threats ever with only 3 Bobs?
Also, leaving in a Griselbrand when boarding in Bob is... ballsy! Reminds me of the old days of running Bob alongside Tombstalker!
Haha, I'll try, but he is a stubborn prick.Quote:
Originally Posted by warfordium
Scroll up two posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by fluuu
My plan against Miracles is: -1 Children of Korlis, -1 Griselbrand, -1 Emrakul, -3 Goryo's Vengeance, -1 Entomb, -2 Shallow Grave, -2 Dark Ritual; +4 Monastery Mentor, +3 Dark Confidant, +2 Serenity, +2 Flusterstorm (for Terminus and Entreat)
Massacre would have been terrible for me all day, and it's been too narrow in the past. It's basically only good against D&T, and they can play around it with Karakas, Port, and Waste sometimes. Against Aggro Loam and Maverick, they play way too many Teegs for it to be good. In storm I've found Dread of Night to be way better. Against D&T, the combination of DoN, Serenity, and Plow should serve you well.Quote:
Originally Posted by .dk
I guess I'm just not sold that paying a bunch of life, 2 mana, and a draw step for Cavern of Souls or Massacre is really a good solution. It's also way easier to get Pierced, wasted off, etc.
Oh Swords by far overperformed. It was absolutely great with Mentor, and sometimes making a Griselbrand and drawing into removal is exactly what you want. I would be tempted to add another. Pithing Needle was always underwhelming in testing because it can be blown up and didn't do anything about Delver. Delver was the biggest way I was losing in the man plan - fliers OP. The basics were great all day against Wasteland. One guy even tried to bring in Blood Moon.
I didn't really bring in Flusterstorm as much as I thought I would. If I played against BUG Delver I would bring it in, but I'm usually too mana constrained by RUG to defend Mentor with it. I do prefer it to Surgical against Combo and Miracles
Nope, 3 Bobs were plenty. I think it's really important to leave in at least one Griselbrand and some combo pieces. Makes attacking the postboard plan waaaay harder for the opponent, and I got a few quick Reanimates that were basically GG. With the combo pieces as threats and additional ways to get back Mentor and Bob, you're plenty threat dense. Haha people played Bob with 4 Force and 1 Blightsteel in vintage all the time. I've even boarded in Bob with Emrakul still in the deck. Don't get unlucky!
I've gone back and forth between Massacre and Dread of Night. Seems like every time I have Dread of Night, Revokers and Canonist are kicking my ass. But I suppose that's much less of a big deal if you're running swords and Serenity as well. Interesting - maybe I'll give that one a try.Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmutant
About LDV - it's funny. You're basically making the same argument I made to myself when I sleeved up my current 60 (4 ponder, 2 SDT, 0 Chrome Mox, 1 LDV). Probably depends on if you're running 1 ofs in the board or not, really.
I might try taking your list (or something very similar) for a spin in the near future though. As I've been playing though, I guess I've been finding that I'm a bit threat light with 4 Bobs and 4 Mentors. I suppose having some more reanimation aside from a singleton reanimate helps with that. Maybe I'm getting unlucky and/or making bad mulligan decisions. Some of my sideboard decisions are different than yours though - I tend to keep all of my rituals in to be able to cast Mentor or Bob sooner - and follow Mentor up with a Therapy or the like.
I piloted my list (posted a few pages back, unchanged) at a 61 person tournament. Quickly;
Round 1 - Elves (0-2) failed to draw well vs opp's turn 1 DRS in G1, then failed to find Entomb in G2 vs topdecked Natural Order. :\
Round 2 - UWr Stoneblade (2-0) mentors etc
Round 3 - D&T (0-2) got cute, got punished G1; Mentor plan failed G2 as he had everything (Spirit of the Labyrinth, Revoker, Thalia, Canonist, StP for Mentor)
Round 4 - Bant Post (2-0)
Round 5 - D&T (2-0) YOLO gets there
Round 6 - Hive Mind (2-1) Lotus Petal + Dark Ritual pays for pacts, also Hive Mind go means they can't ever counter anything.
15th place out of 61.
Felt like I wanted Massacre (obv) and Flusterstorm rather than Surgicals. Definitely a 2nd Serenity. Think I might test out Greg's maindeck soon too.
Which would be ur current list right now and sb?Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
Do you know how to read and or use a browser?Quote:
Originally Posted by fluuu
But u have said u would do some changes in sb lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Koby
dude - that means testing.... so just think about it for a minute and take a guess. there have been all kinds of lists posted in the past few pages. just look at them, and if you think something should be swapped in the board, then do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by fluuu
Generally we're pretty patient in this thread but you might try... trying.
Hell, we're at the point with the deck where the first 65(ish)/75 are set, with 10(ish) moving pieces depending on meta and personal preference.
More so than Huey Jensen?Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmutant
So, I just got today my Entombs. I am still missing the Underground Seas, but I was thinking of running this manabase until I get them:
What do you guys think? Could this manabase work at LGS level? Typical 8-16 players (not big legacy scene around).Quote:
4x Lotus Petal
2x Chrome Mox
4x Dark Ritual
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Thoughtseize
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
2x Gitaxian Probe
4x Entomb
1x Children of Korlis
2x Reanimate
4x Shallow Grave
3x Goryo's Vengeance
4x Griselbrand
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Lands:
4x Darkslick Shores
4x Polluted Delta
2x Flooded Strand
2x Watery Grave
1x Swamp
1x Island
SIDEBOARD:
3x Tormod's Crypt
2x Pithing Needle
2x Deathmark
1x Duress
2x Flusterstorm
2x Chain of Vapor
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Tendrils of Agony
So I've dipped my toes in the dark waters of the Tin Fins reservoir on a couple of occasions but would still consider myself a novice. I play a lot of ANT and record videos with that deck but decided to play a Legacy League with Tin Fins the other day and have recorded the videos. Was a lot of fun as I mostly crushed.
Played a list very similar to what Phazonmutant reported not long ago including the same sideboard more or less. The mentors and dark confidants were great the few times I got to bring them in.
Anyways,
Here are the videos for those of you who'd like to kill a bit of time :smile:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...Ry9DGvbp9HE9BS
Well, Tin Fins with the Mentor board, along with Greg's 2 Swords to Plowshares is on camera now. Just got owned G1 by a T1 Chalice... We'll see how the sideboard games go.
/edit: and reality smashed in the face of a stranded serenity in hand...
@nevilshute - glad you're giving the deck a spin! I'll take a gander at the videos sometime :)
@tarmogoat - seems reasonable. I mean, just run what you can until you can get your seas! Could also try rainbow lands, or a couple more basics too to fetch.
Here is the Deck tech of Greg's list from SCGphilly, who is mentioned by name for the mentor sideboard plan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrJ1w8yvhzY
Shawn was blowing up my phone trying to figure out what sideboard to play, but happy to help a tusk #tuskup #teamtusk. That deck tech was so hilariously bad just like all his others; I have no idea why they continue to interview him. He treats them like the jokes they are. Looks like he ended up 6-3, out of day 2, sad to see that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tantarus
Edit: These commentators are unreal bad.
1. "Warping Wail has a lot of relevant targets in the TinFins deck"
2. "Bos: I don't think Shawn will board at all. CVM: Maybe at most he'll bring in Serenity." Both ignore that Pithing Needle is in his board specifically to deal with Faerie Macabre out of Eldrazi, and that Shawn saw a Thorn to encourage him to bring in Chain.