Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
I attended a small tournament (13 players) yesterday. The list I choose to play was rather typical, as seen below.
Main
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Mangara of Corondor
4 Flickerwisp
3 Mirran Crusader
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
11 Plains
SB
2 Path to Exile
1 Dismember
1 Gut Shot
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Rest in Peace
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
Jund (w/ Punishing Fire) 2-0
Sneak & Show 2-1
Reanimator (w/ Karakas in main) 2-1
Maveric 2-0
All the games were tight and grindy, but with a bit of luck and deliberate play all went fairly smooth. I made one mistake all in all: I forgot to tick up my Vial once, when it was locked by Pithing Needle. Won the tournament and got a foiled Bloodstained Mire as prize :smile:
Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Very nice! Tight and grindy is how this deck operates, and usually you can find a way to break games like those wide open with this deck. So, seeing as you took down those tight and grindy matches, it means you must have played fairly well. Congrats!
Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
How is the legendary rule change affecting the deck?
Is 4x Flagstones of Trokair with Dust Bowl a feasible idea now?
Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Flagstones doesn't play well with RIP, which is one of our best SB, as well as the possibility of a RIP against a RIP-Helm opponent.
Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dave8
How do you guys side against Jund? I find this matchup extremely difficult to win.
Mulligan into mother of runes, or mom and vial. It's not a good matchup, but I've beaten it before (it had main deck jitte QQ)
Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Okay, I've been playing this deck for the past 4 local tournaments. I've now finished 2nd, 4th, 2nd, and FIRST. We have a couple of guys who have won a Pro Tour or Grand Prix, and/or placed top 8 at Pro Tours, so the player base is strong. We get up to 20 players, so it's a small tournament. Take my comments to heart accordingly. That being said, I have been testing Preacher in the main deck, and I have to say he is THE BOMB.
The second time I played this deck (three weeks ago) I made changes to the mana base with Windswept Heath and Savannah's. As I mentioned before, the Heaths were USESLESS. The Savannah's were only there for Gaddock Teeg, and Teeg is in the deck because my store sees a lot of 4-casting cost (or higher) hatred including Damnation, Massacre, and Terminus.
I have since moved Teeg to the sideboard.
Here is the list I won with on Thursday night. I played against only good players, so the victory was very, very sweet.
My list:
Creatures:27
4 Mother of Runes
3 Leonin Arbiter
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Flickerwisp
3 Mangara of Corondor
1 Mirran Crusader
2 Preacher
Spells:11
4 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Batterskull
Lands:22
1 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
8 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
2 Savannah
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:15
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Disenchant
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dust to Dust
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Scepter of Empires
1 Cataclysm
4 Leyline of the Void
I played against UBW Stifle-Nought, Punishing Loam, Nic Fit, UB Stifle-Nought, and Sneak & Show.
MVP of the day was Preacher. I stole a Phyrexian Dreadnought in a match against UB Stifle-Nought, a Griselbrand in the finals against Show & Tell, and two Dark Confidant's in a match against Punishing Loam.
Stealing Griselbrand was cool. My opponent played show and tell. He revealed Griselbrand. I revealed Preacher. He passed the turn. I tapped Preacher to steal Griselbrand. In response, he drew 14 cards. I got the Griselbrand. Gris had summoning sickness. I had a Flickerwisp in play as well. I swung with Flickerwisp taking him down to 2 life (he had used Ancient Tomb and fetchlands for mana earlier).
I passed the turn. He played Pyroclasm (the THIRD ONE this GAME), which would kill the Preacher and give him the Griselbrand. In response I drew 7 cards off Gris, dropping to 13 life, then I Sword's the Griselbrand taking me back to 20. I could have drawn more cards, but I liked what I got with the first 7.
He passed the turn. I dropped 2 threats with Cavern of Souls and Aether Vial (un-counterable on both counts). He dropped Ancient Tomb and tapped for mana, killing himself (because he didn't want me to be able to say "I killed you". LOL. It was the sweetest win I've had in a decade.
In a match against a UB Stifle-Nought (Phyrexian Dreadnought) I stole a Dreadnought with Preacher. Again, awesome. Also of note, In game 2 I equipped Mirran Crusader with Sword of War and Peace and hit the Stifle-Nought opponent for 20 points that turn (opponent had 6 cards in hand. Double-striking doing 4 + 4 + 6 + 6 = awesome!). He had Damnation in hand, so the timing was perfect.
Leyline of the Void was a house against Loam. I had it in there because the decks I've been losing to are Punishing Loam and Re-animator. I didn't play against the Re-animator this week, but I think the Void was awesome tech. It's a risk though, because even with 4 copies you don't always see it in your opening hand, and without it in that opening hand you can't ever cast it. I had to mull to 5 before I saw one, but with that I shutdown the loam shenanigans and won the match 2-0. The reason I tried out the Voids instead of running 3 copies of Rest in Peace (which is what I had before) is that the RIPs were getting hit with Abrupt Decay and I was losing. You can't Decay a Void.
I will be removing the Cataclysm. It's not useful to me at all. Ensnaring Bridge is good, but iffy. I may run a third Preacher. Also, I am finding a lack of answers for Ad Nauseum Tendrils. I will find a way to add three Mindbreak Traps to the board. I will probably drop the Cataclysm, Grafdigger's Cage, and something else...(Canonist? Ensnaring Bridge?). I may drop the Bridge because Preacher is working so well that I want to be able to swing with Griselbrand or Emrakul.
Oh, I played against Nic Fit for the first time. In the first game, I had no idea what was going on...LOL. Never seen that deck before. I won game one, lost game two, and won game three, having by then figured out what his deck did. Game three he had Progenitus on the table. Mirran Crusader, equipped with Sword of War and Peace for the win!
I'm very, very pleased with this deck. I don't miss Aven Mindcensor at all. I'm loving the Arbiter, even though it sometimes stops me from searching with Stoneforge Mystic. The hurt that it puts on the opponent, who is usually running 8 to 10 fetches, is amazing.
I don't miss a 4th Revoker or Flickerwisp. They were coming up when I wanted them.
I REALLY liked the 3rd Mangara. Got a lock once, and managed a few shenanigans in other matches. Really worth running him as a three-of, at least in my area.
I put the Scepter of Empires in there because I didn't want to use Gut Shot as a one-of. I've been in matches where I had the opponent down to one life, but more often they are down to two life when they've managed to turn the game to their favor. I've lost to something as simple as a Maze of Ith when I couldn't find a Wasteland or Port or Mangara. Yeah, that happens sometimes. I want the ability to ping for more than one point -- preferably over time -- and Scepter can do it beginning the turn it comes into play.
I will play this list again, with minor adjustment to my board as previously indicated. The board will probably look like this:
Sideboard:15
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Disenchant
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Scepter of Empires
I can't stress enough how much FUN this deck is to run. It absolutely requires you to study how to play it. I recommend the videos available online. You also need to understand what your opponent's decks do, and you MUST know what to hit first. Remember, NEVER over-commit your resources. You don't need 14 creatures on the board in order to win. I survived THREE pyroclasm's in the third game of the finals against Sneak and Show because I maintained a steady stream of threats in my hand. He would wipe the board, and I would vial in a threat and cast another protected by Cavern of Souls.
I am thinking Cavern of Souls would be strong as a two-of.
With my previous winnings (store credit), combined with Thursday night's first place finish, I gave the store $25 and left with 2 MINT Revised Scrublands. Now I can build Esper Stoneblade! ... though I think D&T is better. But at least I can BUILD it!
Hope this is helpful to you all.
Dave Hernandez
Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Scepter of Empires? O_O
It targets only the player.
Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TiMeWaLk
Scepter of Empires? O_O
It targets only the player.
Yes, it does. That's who I'm trying to kill. It does *exactly* what I need it to do.
Dave.
Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
You're having trouble with ANT, but are thinking about dropping Canonist? You might want to rethink that one.
Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zupponn
You're having trouble with ANT, but are thinking about dropping Canonist? You might want to rethink that one.
I didn't drop Canonist...look at my post. At the bottom I listed my new board.
Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DavidHernandez
Yes, it does. That's who I'm trying to kill. It does *exactly* what I need it to do.
Dave.
Comparing it to gut shot does not make a lot of sense.
Against which deck do you want such a mediocre card?
Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TiMeWaLk
Scepter of Empires? O_O
It targets only the player.
if you run arid mesas and a plateau i would recommend granite shard.
Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Not that I like this as a strategical choice at all. But tactically speaking, I think you'd much rather want Cursed Scroll.
Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julian23
Not that I like this as a strategical choice at all. But tactically speaking, I think you'd much rather want
Cursed Scroll.
I don't like Scroll because it requires too much mana investment. I just want something that can ping for that last point or two or three. I've just found, for me, that the situation where having something like Scepter of Empires would have won me games/matches. Gut Shot is good, it just seems to me that in the three scenarios I have been personally involved in, having the Scepter would have won the match but Gut Shot would not.
I don't believe it's correct to run something like Cursed Scroll....the mana-base for this deck is needed to hose the opponent. You don't want to be paying for Scroll. Addtionally, I find that I hold copies of cards in hand so I don't over extend on the battlefield. The result is a hand with enough unique cards as to make a Scroll miss about 75% of the time.
I'd rather run a Lighting Bolt with a Plateau...so many games come down to the opponent being at 3 or less life....
I'm a little surprised at the number of negative responses I'm seeing for my selection of Scepter. Why do all of you feel Gut Shot is the best answer? If Gut Shot did 2 damage instead of 1, I'd have 2 of them in my board...or even 1 in the maindeck. However, Instant speed is not the be-all-end-all when it's not enough to kill the opponent, and it's usually not enough to take out a creature. I'd rather run a second Jitte if I'm going to be worried about 1/1 critters.
I'm truly looking for opinions on this. Please don't read my comments as an attempt to butt heads with anyone. I am having great success with this deck and want to continue to have the answers I need to win the local tournament.
Dave
Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Hello Dave,
It is because you misunderstood the role of gut shot in the lists. This slot is dedicated to kill an important guy like dark confidant or a key Elf (Heritage?) with a significant gain of tempo. A side board slot is never dedicated to do 1 or 2 damage to the player. That is also why I asked you in which match up you were considering to board in the scepter.
Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TiMeWaLk
Hello Dave,
It is because you misunderstood the role of gut shot in the lists. This slot is dedicated to kill an important guy like dark confidant or a key Elf (Heritage?) with a significant gain of tempo. A side board slot is never dedicated to do 1 or 2 damage to the player. That is also why I asked you in which match up you were considering to board in the scepter.
This is great info. Thanks.
I board in the Scepter for ANT and Punishing Loam, though after last tournament I would also consider putting it in against Sneak & Show. I see what you're talking about. I'm running Preachers though, and I steal the Dark Confidants....or get something better.
That being said, I will continue to examine my board.
Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DavidHernandez
I board in the Scepter for ANT and Punishing Loam, though after last tournament I would also consider putting it in against Sneak & Show.
I feel like we're being trolled here, but under the assumption you're serious, you want to play Scepter of Empires against ANT? So assuming they don't kill you turn 1, and you play Thalia turn 2, then on turn 4 you get to play out a recursive source of 1 damage to the face, as opposed to any other creature card in the deck that will inflict more damage to them at less mana investment, while potentially disrupting their ability to combo against you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DavidHernandez
I'm a little surprised at the number of negative responses I'm seeing for my selection of Scepter.
You shouldn't be, this isn't a card I would be excited to be playing in an M12 draft setting much less Legacy.
Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
from Cairo
I feel like we're being trolled here, but under the assumption you're serious, you want to play
Scepter of Empires against ANT? So assuming they don't kill you turn 1, and you play Thalia turn 2, then on turn 4 you get to play out a recursive source of 1 damage to the face, as opposed to any other creature card in the deck that will inflict more damage to them at less mana investment, while potentially disrupting their ability to combo against you?
You shouldn't be, this isn't a card I would be excited to be playing in an M12 draft setting much less Legacy.
Ok, so this is how I get better. Still not sure why some of you guys act so holier than thou. If you want to live in a box and refuse to innovate, that's your right and I won't try to stop you...
Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Perhaps harsh, but I fail to see how this card could be considered constructed playable. I was rude. This is the established decks subforum and it's clearly stated it's for discussing "finished decks: Decks which are optimized and thoroughly tested." There is absolutely no way Scepter of Empires was thoroughly tested and proved to be an asset. I will drop it though, maybe we can move forward with productive discussion.
