[Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

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Originally Posted by Ninjastill

Thanks that makes a lot of sense, now do you think with the version with baubles that's been having solid success is a real competitor right now in the format? I love challenging decks, its why I play MTG and this makes me want to learn/build it but obviously haven't played it in a tournament or anything like that.

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Originally Posted by d8dk32

"Is it a real competitor" is a hard question to answer. Since the SDT ban, Gold_r0ok has 5-0'd with it and I think won a small 1k, I've top8'd a 1k and lost a win and in for a 1k top8. I have a positive winrate over my last 100+ matches. So yes, you can win with the deck. You'll need to put in lots of reps. I think the deck is worth learning even if you never take it to a real event. It's fun and rewarding and will teach you a lot about cantripping. And you can do well with it.

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We do have a project going to try and collect info to help work these things out.
Current stats from about 188 "Good data points":

54.14% Match win rate.
54.24% Game win rate.
Average combo turn is 2.8
Doomsday lines are used in 74.85% of games on average.
Empty the Warrens lines are used in 17.83% of games on average.
Natural Storm lines are used in 6.19% of games on average.
Deck keeps 7 card hands 76.32% of the time for games 1 and 2 and about 59.68% of the time game 3.
Dice roll win % is at a perfect 50%.

Any more stats wanted, please ask!

Link to the data collection sheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

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Originally Posted by Doishy

We do have a project going to try and collect info to help work these things out.
Current stats from about 188 "Good data points":

54.14% Match win rate.
54.24% Game win rate.
Average combo turn is 2.8
Doomsday lines are used in 74.85% of games on average.
Empty the Warrens lines are used in 17.83% of games on average.
Natural Storm lines are used in 6.19% of games on average.
Deck keeps 7 card hands 76.32% of the time for games 1 and 2 and about 59.68% of the time game 3.
Dice roll win % is at a perfect 50%.

Any more stats wanted, please ask!

Link to the data collection sheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

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Looked over the data, seems Czech and Grixis Delver are tough matchup's otherwise seemed pretty even/good against most decks if I looked at it correctly.

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Originally Posted by Ninjastill

Looked over the data, seems Czech and Grixis Delver are tough matchup's otherwise seemed pretty even/good against most decks if I looked at it correctly.

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Yeah. To provide matchup analysis what we have done is breakdown opposing decks into the relevant hate or combinations of hate and / or thing that will cause us to lose.

The breakdown is:

Speed
Discard
Countermagic
Chalice (Also includes any permanent based hate such as Spheres, Trinisphere, Curse of Exhuastion etc)
Hatebears

The worst combination for the deck observed is Counterspells and Discard combined which is what Grixis / Czech run.
Both show us to have a decent G1 chance against them however this drops when going to SB games so a lot of current discussion has been in sorting this out.
This is also why I have 2 EtW in my SB as it is the best weapon vs Grixis.

Grixis Delver is a tough matchup, as it is for other storm decks. I actually think Pile is a bit better than the stats suggest. I feel my results have gotten better against it over time as I adjust my play and my sideboard to fight it.

Doishy and I tag-teamed a few matches of a league and wrote an article about it for the DDFT wiki. This is our first shot at what will hopefully be part of a series. Check it out here: https://ddft.wiki/posts-output/DDBC-001/

Great read, thanks. Keep up the good work. Much to learn I still have.

Also a side note there is a DDFT Discord channel for any interested :)

https://discord.gg/NcDHRxj

Much appreciate.

I really like the Codex project and hope to give some results soon (but as a father of two kids, understand «soon» like 6 or 9 months haha).

Hi all!

Another article for you.

I've tried to capture the essence of what happened to the deck in 2017 and give some ideas of where it's possibly heading.
Feedback appreciated!

https://ddft.wiki/posts-output/DD_2017/

Anybody like numbers and stuff?

https://ddft.wiki/posts-output/DDStatistics-001/

Enjoy.

With regards to Doomsday as a deck or win-con, one thing I find really interesting about the deck is that you can ignore some of the deck-building constraints you see in ANT or TES. You don't necessarily need to worry about mana costs/life count like an Ad Nauseam user, and you don't need to rush out a graveyard for PiF/Cabal Ritual. Moreover, you can set up some neat compact kills with Lab Man that let you short cut some hate cards and critical mass requirements that Storm decks typically have to keep in mind. With that said, I wanted to discuss Night's Whisper as a useful card in this deck.

Night's Whisper's mana cost and life loss would turn away an Ad Nauseam user, but we can comfortably fit this in given our propensity to go off from 8-10 life. For a PiF loop, Storm users would probably rather play two cantrips for Threshold and digging for specific cards, whereas we can be perfectly fine hitting land drops and any of a variety of cantrips or rituals as our Wishes/Doomsday can be found with cantrips post Whispers, and our rituals can be interchanged with extra cantrips. Night's Whisper occasionally shows up as a 1- or 2-of in ANT sideboards to grind against UBrx decks, but I think it can be a better tool overall for this deck.

It helps out the grindy facets of this deck, especially since Doomsday doesn't get it's Storm engine gradually limited by DRS as badly as Ad Nauseam/PiF can. Night's Whisper also goes nicely with Lotus Petal. Now you have a pairing of cards that convert mana into card advantage and then back again, so you can raise up Storm to get to a natural Tendrils without Doomsday, this helps patch up the relative difficulty Doosmday has in chaining spells to a natural Tendrils. In this way, Petal can be an accelerator that helps Doomsday or a SB EtW, while Whisper sits in the deck and pumps up your threat density/card advantage, so you don't feel the sting of holding Petals in control matchups.

Night's Whisper also does some weird things to the standard double-cantrip Doomsday pile. Consider the following pile:

Mana Requirements: BBBUU
Hand Requirements: Doomsday, 1-Mana Cantrip x2
Pile (Top > Bottom): LED, AoI, LED, LED/Probe, Wish/Lab Man

The first cantrip gets you the LED, which you break off the second cantrip to play AoI. From there, you go LEDs into Wish, or play a Lab Man and Probe. Now, consider what happens with when you replace the two cantrips with Night's Whisper and LED:

Mana Requirements: 1BBBB
Hand Requirements: Doomsday, Night's Whisper, LED
Pile (Top > Bottom): LED, AoI, LED/Probe, Wish/Lab Man, X

With Night's Whisper compressing the draw effects of both cantrips into one card, the LED played alongside Whispers opens a slot in the Doomsday pile (card X). For example, if you fit in a Pact of Negation as card X, you have a Lab Man pile that beats Pyroblast/REB. More realistically, you could use and extra mana to fit in a protection spell. For example, with six mana, check out this pile that beats both REB and BEB effects and removal on Lab Man:

Mana Requirements: 1BBBBB
Hand Requirements Doomsday, Night's Whisper, LED
Pile (Top > Bottom): Duress, AoI, LED, LED/Probe, Wish/Lab Man

The post-Doomsday life loss can be a but rough, but it's worth noting that you can build LED, AoI, Lab Man, Petal, Bauble as a pile so that you only have to lose the two life for Whisper post Doomsday and you can use an instant speed draw from Bauble as a soft check on removal (just pass and force the opponent to remove Lab Man before your next draw step, this tactic doesn't work if you're facing lethal, but, it's a thing).

I don't know if there are some other secret Doomsday pile tricks that Whisper enables, but I'll post them if I think of any.

I'll be grinding a bunch of games of ANT, Omni, and Doomsday over these next few days, as I'm off from work for a bit for Independence Day. If the Night's Whisper pans out I'll add some details. This is the initial list I'll be trying out:

1 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Misty Rainfroest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Lotus Petal
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
1 Rain of Filth
3 Conjurer's Bauble
3 Night's Whisper
3 Burning Wish
1 Laboratory Maniac
3 Doomsday
1 Act on Impulse

3 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Doomsday
1 Infernal Contract
1 Massacre
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
1 Consign // Oblivion
1 Defense Grid