[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

I've attended a 15 man event last thursday night playing Thune Pod with disastrous results. First of all the list:

4 veteran explorer
2 wall of blossoms
1 scavenging ooze
1 strangleroot geist
2 kitchen finks
1 eternal witness
1 varolz, the scar stripped
2 spike feeder
1 academy rector
1 murderous redcap
1 linvala, keeper of silence
1 sigarda, host of herons
2 archangel of thune
1 thragtusk
1 sun titan
3 pernicious deed
1 recurring nightmare
4 birthing pod
3 sensei's divining top
2 green sun's zenith
4 cabal therapy
3 bayou
2 savannah
1 scrubland
3 forest
3 plains
2 swamp
3 verdant catacombs
3 windswept heath
2 phyrexian tower

SIDE
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Memoricide
2 Thoughtseize
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Nether Void
1 Nevermore
1 stony silence
2 maelstrom pulse
1 surgical extraction


Round 1 vs ANT
G1 I cabal therapy after seeing a basic island and he brainstorms in response. Knowing the player I put on sneak show and I name Emrakul since the brainstorm is likely to hide the combo enablers and if he discards emrakul he would shuffle the deck. Turns out he's playing ANT and goes off on turn 3 fairly easy.
I bring in 12 cards: surgical, void, stony, silence, nevermore, canonist, seize, memoricide, cranial, carpet
G2 I therapy turn 1 for LED and find nothing but see that he had keep a slow hand with some cantrips and stable mana. Unfortunately for him on turn 3 I play an explorer, sac to the therapy grabbing some tutors and play nether void. Some turns later he concedes.
G3 I lay 2 carpets, grab a card from his hand with therapy then he makes 10 goblin. I'm able to hold the field with tusk and a fink, but then draw nothing but lands while he finishes me with tendrils without storm...
I have to say that I messed a little with the combat maths, but ultimately didn't mattered because of me not drawing anything and him naturally drawing his lone tendrils for the kill.
0-1

Round 2 vs shardless BUG
G1 he plays multiple shamans, blind cascades into multiple visions, plays multiple jace and lily but I'm able to stabilize thanks to titan recurring wall of blossoms and deed. However at some point he bounces the titan, hymn my recurring nightmare away and forces the titan; next turn he draws 3 from AV and I can't keep up against the card advantage. I remember that this game I had 3 lands left in the deck and never drawn something useful like Pod, top or a real creature...
I don't think I've misplayed in this game but I'm not sure: maybe I should have killed jace before lily.
I side in the carpets and the maelstroms
G2 I have top, explorer, feeder and some other goodies: if I find a Thune or a pod fast enough I may combo off and maybe go to G3. However I don't find anything and time finishes...
0-2

Round 3 vs Sneak and Show
G1 he plays island->go, i therapy and he brainstorms in response. I know that he's on S&S so I reason as before and name emrakul: his hand is only mana, 2 petals and a probe. He draws, plays the petals and a land and passes. I therapy again naming probe and see an intuition; on my EOT he intuition for sneak and play it on his turn. On my turn for the first (and last) time in the tourney I draw and play Pod!!!! Now I'm gonna combo!!!!.... back to real life, I know I was walking on thin ice but pod was the only thing I could cast. In his turn he rips brainstorm that gives him both emrakul and griselbrand....
I side in 12 or 13 cards...
G2 I therapy taking away his S&T and seeing that he has spell pierce and double sneak. I have a second therapy in hand but I fail to draw a 2 or 1 CMC creature or the third land that I needed to play around the pierce and die orribly to hasted emrakul
0-3

At this time I would have liked to play another much just for testing purpouses, but I get the bye...

I admit that this was the first time I was playing Nic Fit (although back in the days I was a Rock (and his minion) player and the decks function likewise) and I probably haven't played optimally, and I'm also aware that this deck is weak against combo.
However I think that the deck has some serious problems because it works only if birthing pod is in play, otherwise is choke full of suboptimal creatures.
Maybe I'll try the blue version, but if I'd have to play again the white one I would focus more on rector.

Impression or suggestion are appreciated.

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Originally Posted by CRich3

I think its because he wants to have creatures you have to answer rather than you have creatures he has to answer.

I just went 3-1 on MTGO daily event with Rector. I'll post more information tomorrow. I am dead tired and I have to get up in 4 hours.

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Partially this. My old Rector list barely ran spot removal in the first place -- it ran a 1-of each Pulse and Vindicate, and relied on passing those through Eternal Witnesses and Recurring Nightmare/Sun Titan shenanigans to keep blowing stuff up. Also, obviously, Deed. The list also Rector'd up Moat, which acted as a sweeper in a lot of scenarios. I tested both Swords and Decay in Rector and was disappointed by both.

Thune is a little different -- subtly so, but the difference is there regardless. In Thune, you have a couple of additional deckbuilding constraints. You need a very heavy creature count in order to make Birthing Pod actually function. You can't run one 4-drop, because then you'll have a percentage of games where you either draw that 4 drop, or you need to Pod a 3->5, and you already used it. One of the very first things to get cut for space for additional creatures is the spot removal. For one, we still have Pernicious Deed as a catch-all. But, additionally, we're putting in two classes of creatures:

-) Persist-(ant) value creatures that block for multiple turns.
-) Lots of creatures who either gain life or have lifelink.

Remember, via Theory of Life (opposite of Theory of Fire): 3 life = 1 turn. Thragtusk is so strong because just off of the lifegain alone, he gains you a turn and a half -- not counting his two bodies. Kitchen Finks and Spike Feeder are each worth just over 1 turn, again, not including the free blocks.

There's another reason we don't need spot removal for Thune, too: we have a combo.

One of the reasons that Rector ran Pulse/Vindicate was because it was a value+recursion-based control deck. If your opponent had an Academy Ruins online, it needed to be dealt with, because it was another engine that rivaled your own. Now, if your opponent is durdling around with Ruins or some other attritiony engine, you can opt to ignore it and just go infinite instead.

Not having traditional spot removal does admittedly open you up to a weakness to the t2 naturally-flipping Delver openers from tempo decks. However, it is very rare for Delver decks to be able to sufficiently tempo GBW Nic Fit, especially when post-board we gain Carpet of Flowers to operate alongside Veterans and ramp creatures. Sometimes they don't have Delver. Sometimes we have a turn 2 Archangel and they don't have a counter. It's all numbers. More often than not, the general course of game is that they have Delver, we have ramp, we drop some Finks and Spikes and time walk a few times while getting smacked for 3 every turn, and eventually something broken happens. We stick a Deed, or a Pod, or an Archangel or a Sigarda or a Zenith for Sigarda, or a Tusk, or whatever. Delver decks cannot beat any of those things.

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I don't have anything for you guys this morning. I've been sick with a bad head-cold for about four days now, and as such, I didn't make it to Mythic this weekend, which incidentally really depressed me. Well, that, and the 7-game losing streak on League that knocked me back down to Silver 5....I love having more farm as jungle than our ADC ._.

Anyway. Evan, did you play Scape at Mythic? If so, how did it go?

I started playing Scape at a local legacy league- a fairly atypical metagame as there's almost no tempo and very little combo. Last week's 3 rounds featured a draw to Death and Taxes (slow opponent that prevented me from winning in turns by casting Cataclysm), loss to TES in 3 games, loss to Death and Taxes in 3 games with reasonably close losses and a not-very-close Scapeshift game. Revoker naming Deed with Mom backup is a real pain, as is Mirran Crusader. Will likely be adding a Massacre to the board over a Red Blast because I haven't seen many decks that I want REB against. The 1-2 Stoneblade decks don't count as I feel pretty comfortable in that matchup to begin with.

May be trying out Thune in the league at some point, though I'd be playing Sylvan Ranger over Viridian Emissary. I definitely want to test the deck because it seems very powerful and let's face it, it's really sweet. It looks WAY better without the Living Wish package, though I think it's still a little unfinished. Completely without testing, the Mindslicer in the board seems like a bit of a weak slot to me, but I understand the reason it's there and I can't think of a better solution as a "screw you combo" card at the moment. Hopefully I can get some testing in this week and give some real input.

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Originally Posted by MrIggins

I started playing Scape at a local legacy league- a fairly atypical metagame as there's almost no tempo and very little combo. Last week's 3 rounds featured a draw to Death and Taxes (slow opponent that prevented me from winning in turns by casting Cataclysm), loss to TES in 3 games, loss to Death and Taxes in 3 games with reasonably close losses and a not-very-close Scapeshift game. Revoker naming Deed with Mom backup is a real pain, as is Mirran Crusader. Will likely be adding a Massacre to the board over a Red Blast because I haven't seen many decks that I want REB against. The 1-2 Stoneblade decks don't count as I feel pretty comfortable in that matchup to begin with.

May be trying out Thune in the league at some point, though I'd be playing Sylvan Ranger over Viridian Emissary. I definitely want to test the deck because it seems very powerful and let's face it, it's really sweet. It looks WAY better without the Living Wish package, though I think it's still a little unfinished. Completely without testing, the Mindslicer in the board seems like a bit of a weak slot to me, but I understand the reason it's there and I can't think of a better solution as a "screw you combo" card at the moment. Hopefully I can get some testing in this week and give some real input.

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Yeah, I might be biased regarding 'Slicer from my playing Melira Pod in modern -- Slicer has been an absolute house for me there vs both combo and UW(x). It seems like a reasonable thing to test for Thune, although I'm keeping an eye on it as one of my pet cards which may not be good enough.

DnT can randomly be challenging, which is one reason I favor Virtue's Ruin in the sideboard over Perish. If there aren't any Teegs in your meta, feel free to replace Virtue's Ruin with Massacre -- just realize that you're basically stone-cold out against Teeg + Revoker, then. Cabal Therapy always names Revoker vs DnT, as if they don't have a Revoker on Deed, the matchup is largely a joke. If you know that they're on Cataclysm, it may be correct to bring in Slaughter Games to remove that out -- DnT's best weapons against us are Revoker, Cataclysm, and Mangina+Karakas lock. Revoker is an easy blind-Therapy -- the other two you can evaluate and nab on flashback. Sometimes Pyroclasm and Golgari Charm can be massive blow-outs (if you're still on Charm).

Your general plan vs DnT is to ramp up, disrupt, sweep one or two times, and then scapeshift for the kill. You're almost certainly not going to be winning via beat-down against DnT -- their board presence is too massive and Scape's is too insignificant. Thrag doesn't do so hot vs a Mirran Crusader with a Sword on him.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Partially this. My old Rector list barely ran spot removal in the first place -- it ran a 1-of each Pulse and Vindicate, and relied on passing those through Eternal Witnesses and Recurring Nightmare/Sun Titan shenanigans to keep blowing stuff up. Also, obviously, Deed. The list also Rector'd up Moat, which acted as a sweeper in a lot of scenarios. I tested both Swords and Decay in Rector and was disappointed by both.

Thune is a little different -- subtly so, but the difference is there regardless. In Thune, you have a couple of additional deckbuilding constraints. You need a very heavy creature count in order to make Birthing Pod actually function. You can't run one 4-drop, because then you'll have a percentage of games where you either draw that 4 drop, or you need to Pod a 3->5, and you already used it. One of the very first things to get cut for space for additional creatures is the spot removal. For one, we still have Pernicious Deed as a catch-all. But, additionally, we're putting in two classes of creatures:

-) Persist-(ant) value creatures that block for multiple turns.
-) Lots of creatures who either gain life or have lifelink.

Remember, via Theory of Life (opposite of Theory of Fire): 3 life = 1 turn. Thragtusk is so strong because just off of the lifegain alone, he gains you a turn and a half -- not counting his two bodies. Kitchen Finks and Spike Feeder are each worth just over 1 turn, again, not including the free blocks.

There's another reason we don't need spot removal for Thune, too: we have a combo.

One of the reasons that Rector ran Pulse/Vindicate was because it was a value+recursion-based control deck. If your opponent had an Academy Ruins online, it needed to be dealt with, because it was another engine that rivaled your own. Now, if your opponent is durdling around with Ruins or some other attritiony engine, you can opt to ignore it and just go infinite instead.

Not having traditional spot removal does admittedly open you up to a weakness to the t2 naturally-flipping Delver openers from tempo decks. However, it is very rare for Delver decks to be able to sufficiently tempo GBW Nic Fit, especially when post-board we gain Carpet of Flowers to operate alongside Veterans and ramp creatures. Sometimes they don't have Delver. Sometimes we have a turn 2 Archangel and they don't have a counter. It's all numbers. More often than not, the general course of game is that they have Delver, we have ramp, we drop some Finks and Spikes and time walk a few times while getting smacked for 3 every turn, and eventually something broken happens. We stick a Deed, or a Pod, or an Archangel or a Sigarda or a Zenith for Sigarda, or a Tusk, or whatever. Delver decks cannot beat any of those things.

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Hmm...interesting. I always thought of nic fit as a control deck. I guess you don't really need spot removal, though, if you're outclassing your opponent's creatures with a turn 3 thragtusk.

What do you think about running 1 deathrite shaman over 2-drop ramp creatures?

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Originally Posted by pfiremc13

Hmm...interesting. I always thought of nic fit as a control deck. I guess you don't really need spot removal, though, if you're outclassing your opponent's creatures with a turn 3 thragtusk.

What do you think about running 1 deathrite shaman over 2-drop ramp creatures?

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It is a control deck, but it's a board control deck. It controls your opponent's board presence and controls via your own board presence. This is, incidentally, why stack-based combo is about the worst thing you can face.

You could try a 1-of Deathrite, although it's beyond me what you'd cut for him. The Tribe-Elder and the Sylvan Ranger both serve pretty important functions, and being a 2-drop is important. I definitely wouldn't suggest cutting a Veteran. I guess the closest would be cutting Scavenging Ooze, but I like having a bomby 2-drop to get lategame, and the incremental lifegain from Ooze is insanely strong with Archangel onboard.

So, I currently run one IoK and one thoughtseize along with the four therapy in my deck. (Still Thune/Feeder)

Thoughts on replacing those 2 discards with 2 probes?
Or 3 probes for Iok, thought and one land? (currently run 22-3 heath, 3 cata, 2 bayou, 2 savannah, 1 scrubland, 1 karakas, 2 tower, 3 forest, 3 swamp, 2 plains)

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Originally Posted by jbone2016

So, I currently run one IoK and one thoughtseize along with the four therapy in my deck. (Still Thune/Feeder)

Thoughts on replacing those 2 discards with 2 probes?
Or 3 probes for Iok, thought and one land? (currently run 22-3 heath, 3 cata, 2 bayou, 2 savannah, 1 scrubland, 1 karakas, 2 tower, 3 forest, 3 swamp, 2 plains)

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I don't like it. If you're up against combo, knowing how they're going to beat you + drawing a random card seems strictly worse than probably taking some combo piece of an indeterminate variety. You're likely sideboarding these two slots out against fair decks anyway, so the change is meaningless there.

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Sidenote for Pod lists of all color combinations:

Thoughts on Necroplasm?

Comes in off Pod (or cast), destroys all Delvers on the turn it comes in, all Monguise, Grims, Deathrites, and other annoying 1s on the turn after, then all Goyfs, Oozes, Bobs, Stoneforges, and such on the turn after, and then finally takes out Geist of St ******, Clique, and itself on the final turn -- then it can dredge back and do it all over again.

May be too cute, but might also be worth testing.

I've been working on a modern list with Necroplasm. He's a bit slow, but good for taking out flipped delvers and other tokens. He's not that reliable for much else, but can occasionally get there. I suspect in Legacy this will be emphasized more. Test it and let us know what you find.

Well here is what I played Sunday night for MTGO daily. I didn't keep exact notes because I was tired and I was watching football at the same time. Most of my notes are from writing down what I see with therapy.

Lands: 21
3x Forest
3x Plains
2x Swamps
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Windswept Heath
2x Bayou
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
2x Phyrexian Tower

Creatures: 20
1x Starved Rusalka
4x Veteran Explorer
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Fierce Empath
2x Eternal Witness
3x Academy Rector
1x Baneslayer Angel
1x Thragtusk
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Sun Titan
1x Grave Titan

Spells: 19
3x Sensei's Divining TOp
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Pernicious Deed
1x Recurring Nightmare
1x Recycle
4x Green Su's Zenith

Sideboard: 15
3x Extirpate
3x Carpet of Flowers
1x Gaddock Teeg
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Faith's Fetters
2x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Primeval Bounty

Roud 1: Dredge
Game 1: I play first starting off with turn 1 top. He passes and discards golgari grave troll. I already had scavenging ooze in hand which I played turn 2 instead of using top on my upkeep. But he kills it with contagion. He dredges and discards a couple of Ichorids and Nether shadows. I turn 3 green sun's for gaddock teeg. From here on we are a race back and forth. I use Starved Rusalka to keep his bridges out of his graveyard and to save some damage from Ichorid. I eventually get Grave Titan and I win the race.

SB: -1 Sun Titan, -1 Grave Titan, -1 Fierce Empath, -1 Recycle, +3 Extirpate, +1 Primeval Bounty.

Game 2: He reveals the white chancellor so I turn 1 cabal therapy which gets countered, turn 2 gaddock teeg. Then proceed to top deck 2 green sun's. I draw plenty of removal but not enough creatures to keep up with the race. I extirpated his Dread Return and Golgari Grave Troll early on to slow him down but still couldn't keep up.

Game 3: This game was very close, I mull down to 4. Veteran Explorer, Extirpate, Bayou, Phyrexian Tower. I play turn 1 explorer off bayou and he pass and discards grave troll. I draw top attack for 1, sac veteran explorer to play top and extirpate on grave troll. He applies a lot of pressure with nacromoebas and nether shadows. I top deck E. Wit to Exitrpate dread return, and continue to lay out chump blocks. He had me down to 6 and he was at 18 before I get a threat which is Baneslayer. Then proceed to top deck for the win. Next was E. wit getting extirpate to exile ichorid. Then Thragtusk to gain life to block all of the tokens he was getting from the 2 bridges in his graveyard.

Matches: 1-0
Games: 2-1

Round 2: Enchantress
Game 1: This was a blowout, I play first and start off fetch bayou for top. He plays wild growth on a forest and pass. I don't use top I turn 2 veteran explore to sacrifice with phyrexian tower to decay his wild growth then use top. He plays enchantress turn 2 and pass. I play deed and sac for 2. He draws plays enchantress then enchantress precense and I use top to find Sun Titan. After he noticed the recurring deed he concedes.

Sideboard: -1 Scavenging Ooze, -1 Recycle, +1 Gaddock Teeg, +1 Primeval Bounty

Game 2: This was very close. I start off fast with turn 1x explorer, turn 2 gaddock teeg. Turn 3 nothing. Then turn 4 double therapy revealing his hand of humility, assemble the legion, and replenish. I called Replenish the first one and took assemble the legion with the flashback. I figured he had some high cc spells since he played a turn 1 wild growth, turn 2 enchantress and nothing else. I don't draw any big threats, just 2 e wit and ooze. He eventually draws an oblivion ring and starts to lock me out the game. He drops humility and assemble the legion. I have to use Primeval bounty to fight off his tokens. He had 0 cards in deck 7 cards in hand assemble the legion with 3 or 4 counters, 2 suppression fields. I have 4 creatures, 2 which are 4/4 from primeval bounty which got o ringed a couple of turns back. I also have deed in hand with 6 lands. I had to pay 4 to sac my fetch land. one turn, then 4 to use top to find my 7th land. I then blow deed for 3 him having 2 Karmic Justice out wipes my whole side of the board. But I clear out his tokens and his Solitary Confinment to make him deck himself.

Matches: 2-0
Games: 4-1

Round 3: Deathblade
Game 1: I had a great hand, Veteran Explorer, Cabal Therapy, Top, Abrupt decay 2 fetches bayou, forest. He played first and played Marsh Flats and passed. I turned 1 forest top. He plays SFM and gets batterskull, I cabal therapy his batterskull seeing Dark Confidant, JTMS, Vindicate, Engineered Explosives and fetch. I play veteran explorer flash it back and take his Jace. He plays Bob which gets decayed. He play turn 3 grave titan which gets vindicated and tokens get blown up. But he has very few cards. I eventually top into green sun which gets me Sigarda and I ride her to victory.

Sideboard: -1 Sun Titan, -1 Grave Titan, -1 Fierce Empath, +1 Primeval Bounty, +1 Thrun, the Last Troll, +1 Faith's Fetters.

Game 2: He plays a lot similar to game but he gets Sword of Feast and Famine and I have no way to remove it. I started to race him with Sigarda and Thragtusk until he plays supreme verdict then lingering souls.

Game 3: I thought he was just playing Esper until he turn 1 Deathrite. Then turn 2 Bob which I chose to kill Deathrite instead with Decay. I drop veteran explorer which I sac to phyrexian tower turn 2 to play sakura tribe elder (hand is 2 Academy Rector and land). He taps out to play brainstorm into JTMS. I draw another veteran explorer and play rector and pray he doesn't have a counter, which he doesn't I sac to get primeval bounty and proceed to win with veteran explorers, e witness and beast tokens.

Matches: 3-0
Games: 6-2

Round 4: RUG Tempo
Game 1: He plays turn 1 Delver which flips turn 2. He never gets a second land but counters ever spell I play until its to late for me to catch up.

Sideboard: -3 Veteran Explorer, - 1 Fierce Empath, -1 Sun Titan, -1 Grave Titan, +1 Thrun, +3 Carpet of Flowers, +1 Primeval Bounty, +1 Extirpate.

Game 2: I play turn 1 Carpet, the plays turn 1 goose. I then use the carpet to green sun for explorer play fetch and hold tower. I turn 3 sigarda and he scoops.

Game 3: This game I couldn't draw a threat to keep up. I cabal therapy 2 Stifles away, and draw deed for nimble mongoose, and decay for goyf. But I couldn't keep up with the second goyf with counter back up.

Matches: 3-1
Games: 7-4

My conclusion:
-Primeval Bounty is better main than Recycle at this time. I still use recycle a lot but veteran explorer making a 3/3 beast is hard for a lot of decks to deal with. Its probably wrong but I mainly use recycle for combo decks to draw into discard faster.
-I really don't like extirpate, the mana I have to keep up waiting for a spell to get rid of I could of been more proactive and applying more pressure.
-Oblivion Ring is a house with all the show and tell decks. I can't tell you how many times I play Gaddock Teeg and they show into my O-Ring.
-Gaddock Teeg was just a filler card because I didn't know what else to play, but with all the combo decks I'm glad to play 1 MD.
-Scavening Ooze didn't get to shine as much in the tournament but during play testing he is a huge threat.
-The second Faith's Fetters was supposed to be humility but I didn't have enough to buy one. But with Teeg and O-Ring I have never needed it.

Random thoughts:
-I didn't play recurring nightmare all weekend. I don't think this is as strong in this version since I get the same effects attacking with my titans as I do when they enter the battlefield.
-I miss playing Kitchen Finks. He is a house vs tempo and burn decks.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

It is a control deck, but it's a board control deck. It controls your opponent's board presence and controls via your own board presence. This is, incidentally, why stack-based combo is about the worst thing you can face.

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Board control/ramp combo, whichever way you want to look at it

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being a 2-drop is important.

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Why exactly?

I was thinking of cutting STE.

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Originally Posted by pfiremc13

Board control/ramp combo, whichever way you want to look at it



Why exactly?

I was thinking of cutting STE.

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Because birthing pod chain.

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Originally Posted by guelahpapyrus

Because birthing pod chain.

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You can't pod from STE >_>

Or, it would be a bad idea.

I'll post my full list soon when I have it finished. It's basically arianrhod's thune fit with a few changes.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Thoughts on Necroplasm?

Comes in off Pod (or cast), destroys all Delvers on the turn it comes in, all Monguise, Grims, Deathrites, and other annoying 1s on the turn after, then all Goyfs, Oozes, Bobs, Stoneforges, and such on the turn after, and then finally takes out Geist of St ******, Clique, and itself on the final turn -- then it can dredge back and do it all over again.

May be too cute, but might also be worth testing.

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I really like this idea. Especially for its synergy with thune or feeder in thune fit specifically.

What are people's thoughts on inquisition of kozilek vs. thoughtseize?

Sorry for the triple post

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Originally Posted by pfiremc13

I really like this idea. Especially for its synergy with thune or feeder in thune fit specifically.

What are people's thoughts on inquisition of kozilek vs. thoughtseize?

Sorry for the triple post

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I didn't even think of the synergy with Thune and Feeder. That's highly amusing. Theoretically, you could use one of these options to "jump" the 3-spot, ensuring that the 'Plasm keeps growing indefinitely.

New achievement unlocked: combine Necroplasm + Spike Feeder + Archangel of Thune to destroy an Emrakul.

I don't have a Necroplasm, so I can't test it tonight at my local -- likewise, I actually don't know what I would cut for it yet. But it's probably worth trying. I'll have to order one in =)

As for Inq vs Seize, Seize is almost unanimously better. Premier reason why is Sneak/Show, where sometimes they'll have a hand full of dudes, or a Sneak Attack, or whatever, and Inq does nothing. You generally want the extra discard vs combo decks, and vs combo decks the 2 life is generally meaningless outside of corner cases.

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Originally Posted by pfiremc13

You can't pod from STE >_>

Or, it would be a bad idea.

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I've shamelessly flashbacked Therapy via STE already. Shit happens.

I really like Necroplasm. My friend's favorite card when he used to play magic back in the day. I usually go get bone shredder in pod at 3 mana but this could be really good.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

I didn't even think of the synergy with Thune and Feeder. That's highly amusing. Theoretically, you could use one of these options to "jump" the 3-spot, ensuring that the 'Plasm keeps growing indefinitely.

New achievement unlocked: combine Necroplasm + Spike Feeder + Archangel of Thune to destroy an Emrakul.

I don't have a Necroplasm, so I can't test it tonight at my local -- likewise, I actually don't know what I would cut for it yet. But it's probably worth trying. I'll have to order one in =)

As for Inq vs Seize, Seize is almost unanimously better. Premier reason why is Sneak/Show, where sometimes they'll have a hand full of dudes, or a Sneak Attack, or whatever, and Inq does nothing. You generally want the extra discard vs combo decks, and vs combo decks the 2 life is generally meaningless outside of corner cases.



I've shamelessly flashbacked Therapy via STE already. Shit happens.

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This is why I'm with Tao on the Sylvan Ranger boat.

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Originally Posted by guelahpapyrus

This is why I'm with Tao on the Sylvan Ranger boat.

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Yeah, I'm ideally going to have a 1-1 split between Sylvan Ranger and Sakura-Tribe. I can't bring myself to cut Sakura-Tribe completely, at the very least, not yet. Note that my Sylvan Ranger isn't here yet, so tonight I'm going to be running the Viridian Emissary still. This is purely due to availability.

#Has40duals, #doesn'thavecommons.

So I ran a punishing fire nic fit list at a legacy tournament this past weekend, to a 2-3 record...but my game W-L was 7-6...and but for one (well, I guess 2) noob mistakes, I would have made top 8, and I had a blast with the deck, so it was successful in my book.
I ran Tao's primer list (thanks for that, btw), except my board was:

4 Red elemental blast
4 Leyline of the void
3 Chalice of the void
2 Golgari charm
2 Slaughter games



Match 1: DnT
I convinced my friend Chris to come to his first ever legacy tourney, and of course we get paired up. I basically machine-gunned his board with punishing fire for 2 games, and it was over. Sad face for him :(. 2-0.

Match 2: Mono Red Painter.
Game 1 he draws a billion lands and plays only a blood moon before I kill him. So I don't know whether he's playing MUD or painter. I should have guessed painter based on his lands, but my noob-rustiness means I waffle and don't board for game 2. Game 2 he blood moons again, and by a twist of fate my deck gives me all nonbasics. I'm still in it if I can find a forest off the top, but he gets me. Game 3 we battle back and forth a bit, until he flips the grindstone blindly off the top. GG. 1-2. overall 3-2.

Match 3: SnT
Game 1 is -literally- the most epic game of magic I have ever played. We battle back and forth a bit, with me stripping out his hand, but he rebuilds. Then he slams the show and tell: my board is top, perncious deed, and 6 lands. He drops emrakul and passes. I GSZ for an eternal witness to grab liliana back out of my yard and pass. He swings, and I sack 3 lands, the witness, and the top, but I stack in a look at my top 3 before the trigger, leaving me with 3 lands. There is a second liliana in the top three and I think "what are the chances I will need that?" but stack her on top anyways. He passes back. I draw the seocnd liliana and play the first, making him sac emrakul. I pass. He slams show and tell and a second emrakul and passes. I slam a second liliana. A few turns later he scoops up his cards.
Game 2 he puts me away after a protracted fight. Game 3 we are dueling, and he has a full hand, and I slaughter games. I have to choose SnT or Sneak attack (or emrakul). I pick SnT. He has the other 2 and I lose. In hindsight, this was a very poor choice, but I guess that's how you learn. 1-2, overall 4-4.

Match 4: Shardless BUG
This is supposed to be a toss-up for Nic Fit, but in my experience it is a blowout (probably due to variance secondary to limited experience): Nic Fit just doesn't care about any of the cards this deck plays, so they can get all the CA they want. Game 2 was good I guess: he eventually landed a bitterblossom and gilded draked my thragtusk. I perncious deed his token and kill him with the drake. 2-0, overall 6-4

Match 5: Lands
I still really am shaky in this matchup, psychologically: I just don't know what my lines of play should be, when I should be on defense vs. offense. Game one he does the annoying lands thing. Game 2 I slaughter games out his P-fires and loams and kill him with Thrun. game three I mull to 5, but start with a leyline in play. I get a thrun down and have an abrupt decay in hand. His only permanent is exploration while he looks for a loam. Now, my noob error here costs me the game, the match, and a top 8 berth (my opponent top 8'ed instead): I'm thinking...this decay isn't doing anything for me, so I point it at his exploration. Well, next turn off the top he gets ensnaring bridge. He then Krosan grips my leyline and does the land shimy with ghost quarter. 1-2, overall 7-6.

I actually never fetched the badlands or the taiga, and was wondering if those could be replaced with basics (which I was often hoping for more of). My gut sense is probably not, but just thought I'd mention it. I think I will take my SB back more towards the generally accepted version, since surgicals have broader applicability.
My question to the group is regarding plans against Lands and Painter. I feel like I know what I did wrong against SnT, but not for those two.

Thanks,
Ben

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Originally Posted by benofzongo

So I ran a punishing fire nic fit list at a legacy tournament this past weekend, to a 2-3 record...but my game W-L was 7-6...and but for one (well, I guess 2) noob mistakes, I would have made top 8, and I had a blast with the deck, so it was successful in my book.
I ran Tao's primer list (thanks for that, btw), except my board was:

4 Red elemental blast
4 Leyline of the void
3 Chalice of the void
2 Golgari charm
2 Slaughter games



Match 1: DnT
I convinced my friend Chris to come to his first ever legacy tourney, and of course we get paired up. I basically machine-gunned his board with punishing fire for 2 games, and it was over. Sad face for him :(. 2-0.

Match 2: Mono Red Painter.
Game 1 he draws a billion lands and plays only a blood moon before I kill him. So I don't know whether he's playing MUD or painter. I should have guessed painter based on his lands, but my noob-rustiness means I waffle and don't board for game 2. Game 2 he blood moons again, and by a twist of fate my deck gives me all nonbasics. I'm still in it if I can find a forest off the top, but he gets me. Game 3 we battle back and forth a bit, until he flips the grindstone blindly off the top. GG. 1-2. overall 3-2.

Match 3: SnT
Game 1 is -literally- the most epic game of magic I have ever played. We battle back and forth a bit, with me stripping out his hand, but he rebuilds. Then he slams the show and tell: my board is top, perncious deed, and 6 lands. He drops emrakul and passes. I GSZ for an eternal witness to grab liliana back out of my yard and pass. He swings, and I sack 3 lands, the witness, and the top, but I stack in a look at my top 3 before the trigger, leaving me with 3 lands. There is a second liliana in the top three and I think "what are the chances I will need that?" but stack her on top anyways. He passes back. I draw the seocnd liliana and play the first, making him sac emrakul. I pass. He slams show and tell and a second emrakul and passes. I slam a second liliana. A few turns later he scoops up his cards.
Game 2 he puts me away after a protracted fight. Game 3 we are dueling, and he has a full hand, and I slaughter games. I have to choose SnT or Sneak attack (or emrakul). I pick SnT. He has the other 2 and I lose. In hindsight, this was a very poor choice, but I guess that's how you learn. 1-2, overall 4-4.

Match 4: Shardless BUG
This is supposed to be a toss-up for Nic Fit, but in my experience it is a blowout (probably due to variance secondary to limited experience): Nic Fit just doesn't care about any of the cards this deck plays, so they can get all the CA they want. Game 2 was good I guess: he eventually landed a bitterblossom and gilded draked my thragtusk. I perncious deed his token and kill him with the drake. 2-0, overall 6-4

Match 5: Lands
I still really am shaky in this matchup, psychologically: I just don't know what my lines of play should be, when I should be on defense vs. offense. Game one he does the annoying lands thing. Game 2 I slaughter games out his P-fires and loams and kill him with Thrun. game three I mull to 5, but start with a leyline in play. I get a thrun down and have an abrupt decay in hand. His only permanent is exploration while he looks for a loam. Now, my noob error here costs me the game, the match, and a top 8 berth (my opponent top 8'ed instead): I'm thinking...this decay isn't doing anything for me, so I point it at his exploration. Well, next turn off the top he gets ensnaring bridge. He then Krosan grips my leyline and does the land shimy with ghost quarter. 1-2, overall 7-6.

I actually never fetched the badlands or the taiga, and was wondering if those could be replaced with basics (which I was often hoping for more of). My gut sense is probably not, but just thought I'd mention it. I think I will take my SB back more towards the generally accepted version, since surgicals have broader applicability.
My question to the group is regarding plans against Lands and Painter. I feel like I know what I did wrong against SnT, but not for those two.

Thanks,
Ben

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Emrkaul is always the correct blind Slaughter. Slaughter Games (or comparable card) goes after the monsters. Spot-discard goes after the enablers (Show and Sneak).

Imperial Painter is a coin toss. Pernicious Deed is insanely good against them, and the fact that we play 7+ basics and routinely get multiples out via Explorer/Tribe-Elder/etc is really solid. Sometimes we don't draw Deed, and sometimes we get all dual-land hands. It happens. It's mostly draw-dependent, to be honest. Slaughtering away their Painter's Servants is big game.

I don't think anyone in the thread has said that Shardless is a coin toss. Shardless is a bye as far as Nic Fit of any color combination is concerned. I mean, they can obviously nut-draw and then that's that, but the same can be true for any deck -- such is Magic.

As for Lands....I think I would Slaughter away their Loams first and foremost, then go for the Punishing Fires from there. It's worth noting that if they're Dark Lands, that can be a huge problem -- Nic Fit in general doesn't have a lot of ways to get rid of Merit Lage, although Liliana is huge. Generally speaking against Lands you want to ramp as aggressively as you can to dodge their mana denial plan, drop a fatty or two, and try to kill them as quickly as possible. Quick Lilianas turn into half-armageddons vs them, which is sweet -- Deed wraths away their Explorations and such, Decay and other spot takes out Ensnaring Bridge in lieu of a Deed....Slaughter away Loam and PFire to hit their engines as much as possible.

Hope that helps.

Played Thune Pod tonight, the deck felt really really underpowered to me. I never really felt like I had a plan to work towards. Instead the deck was just trying to value-play people out of the game, which definitely doesn't feel good enough. The deck's power plays just never felt impactful enough, unless I was already ahead, and Archangel herself was never good and frequently just got Swordsed for no value. I was DEFINITELY playing poorly, so that didn't help. Perhaps it can be written up to variance and bad play over 3 rounds but the deck left a bad taste in my mouth, I'm sorry to say, because it looked really sweet on paper. I know Kevin's had success with it, but I'm personally gonna write that up to him being a master, and stick with Scapewish.

Trying to be constructive about the deck, the main addressable issue I found was not being able to interact with my opponent at all, and particularly being unable to interact with Batterskull, which I was basically never able to deal with. While Pod may be a fine engine card, I don't think the versatility (or power, or both) of answers is there yet to make it really work as well as some other variants' engines. I don't know if that means more Zeniths to complement it, more redundancy in effects, a maindeck guy like Wickerbough Elder, or what. The potential is probably there, and I hope it gets found. I will say that playing Sigarda was awesome, and Recurring Nightmare + Persist dudes, while a little fragile, is definitely good.

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Originally Posted by MrIggins

Played Thune Pod tonight, the deck felt really really underpowered to me. I never really felt like I had a plan to work towards. Instead the deck was just trying to value-play people out of the game, which definitely doesn't feel good enough. The deck's power plays just never felt impactful enough, unless I was already ahead, and Archangel herself was never good and frequently just got Swordsed for no value. I was DEFINITELY playing poorly, so that didn't help. Perhaps it can be written up to variance and bad play over 3 rounds but the deck left a bad taste in my mouth, I'm sorry to say, because it looked really sweet on paper. I know Kevin's had success with it, but I'm personally gonna write that up to him being a master, and stick with Scapewish.

Trying to be constructive about the deck, the main addressable issue I found was not being able to interact with my opponent at all, and particularly being unable to interact with Batterskull, which I was basically never able to deal with. While Pod may be a fine engine card, I don't think the versatility (or power, or both) of answers is there yet to make it really work as well as some other variants' engines. I don't know if that means more Zeniths to complement it, more redundancy in effects, a maindeck guy like Wickerbough Elder, or what. The potential is probably there, and I hope it gets found. I will say that playing Sigarda was awesome, and Recurring Nightmare + Persist dudes, while a little fragile, is definitely good.

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What were your matchups, out of curiosity? I'm guessing there was a Blade deck of some kind, since you mention Swords and Batterskull specifically.

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Went 3-1 at my local with Thune last night -- beating Reanimator, Burn, and RUG; losing to Goblins. Reanimator was a format neophyte who was borrowing a deck -- I never, ever in a million years should have won game 1, but he didn't know what Birthing Pod does in legacy, so he allowed it to resolve (he had an onboard [turn 2] Griselbrand and could have drawn a million cards). I combo'd off shortly thereafter. Game two I won legitimately without him ever getting a fatty in play, between Nevermore, Cranial, and Ooze. Burn was closer than I would like -- game one I didn't draw anything that gained life and he had Price + Fireblast for exact the turn before I was going to stabilize. Game three I was mana screwed hard, but he had a slow draw with double Sulfuric Vortex. I Deeded away the first one, then hit the second with Harmonic Sliver. There were two turns where I was actually just dead on board to basically anything (he drew a land and then a Grim Lavamancer), but I skated by through the skin of my teeth and made Thrag->Resto/Thrag happen. RUG was, as always, a joke. Game two I had a turn two Sigarda which actually resolved. You can guess how that went. Goblins was a simple case of my deck just failing to play Magic -- game one he vomited out double Warchief + Chieftain + MWM + Piledriver in rapid succession, and I died with Pernicious Deed the top card of my deck after getting smacked for 16 in one turn. Game two I mulled and he had a slower, Port-based hand. I wrathed him once, but he rebuilt into Warchief/Warchief/Mad Auntie and nugged me for exactsies through a Sigarda.

The increased prevalence of Goblins in the metagame is making my Moat instincts itch. I always feel like Goblins is a harder matchup than it really should be -- it's often wildly in our favor, but it seems like ~1/3 of the time they just nut out and kick us right in the nuts before we can say anything about it.

Things I noticed:

Only used Emissary once, would've been a push as to whether it was better as Ranger or not.
Voice was still terrible. I think I've found my Necroplasm slot.
The 3-drop core of Varolz/Spike/Finks was still one of the biggest reasons to play the deck.
Never used Batterskull (or SFM), or Recurring Nightmare. Sun Titan was hideously overkill the one time he saw play. This is a function of my matchups.
I still actively hate Ooze as a card. Can't deny that it was nice having the Reanimator hate, though.

All I've got for now.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

What were your matchups, out of curiosity? I'm guessing there was a Blade deck of some kind, since you mention Swords and Batterskull specifically.

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Junk with Stoneforge, Mom, Knight, Bob, Deathrite, Lingering Souls, then BW with Bob, Stoneforge, Mom, Deathrite, and discard, and then Jund.
Bricked on hitting a Deed or any sort of action to go with my Archangel for a long time against Junk game 1 while I died to Deathrite and Batterskull, did the thing with Recurring Nightmare and Redcap game 2, got Hymned out of the game in game 3.
Drew against BW because he was playing very slowly and it took me forever to kill him game 2. Game 1 I turn 3 a Sigarda off of Tower+Explorer and he gets his 4th and 5th basics (which I was definitely not expecting) and plays Sword of Feast and Famine, equip it to his Bob, attack, trigger, cast Batterskull. The deed in my hand was too slow. Game 2 I eventually grind him out with Finks and Pod into Resto into Sigarda. Game 3 we end up in turns while I have an Archangel in play and he has a Batterskull, he doesn't have the removal for the Angel so I'm drawing live to go off but it doesn't get there.
Jund was good when they didn't have discard and bad when they did, I will note that Deathrite and Ooze were very problematic in these games, but Batterskull was very good in the matchup.

I know some of these are bad beats (that BW game when turn 3 Sigarda didn't do anything) and the bricking on draw steps (with a Top in play, no less) will happen with any build. I'm probably writing off the deck too early.

I'm feeling much more awake and able to put things into words than last night so here are some other notes I have about the deck:
-Voice, as you said, was quite bad.
-Varolz never really did anything but that's probably a function of every opponent having Deathrite Shaman and/or Ooze.
-I wanted more 2-drops to pod into the business 3s, but this is from a small sample size and I don't know if that would be a consistent problem. If you're cutting Voice for a 3-drop that you can't Zenith for (Necroplasm), that may make this more of an issue.
-I distinctly remember wanting to Zenith up a 4-drop to Pod into an Archangel and being unable to.
-Sigarda continues to be awesome.
-The deck felt pretty weak to discard because your cards seem less powerful on an individual level. Nightmare doesn't do anything without creatures, Archangel is only okay without its support, Pod similarly needs guys, etc. Granted when the synergy gets going you are hard to stop, but if they disrupt it, you can end up not doing much.
-The deck really didn't feel proactive enough, which is my biggest issue. In these games I never really felt like I had clear things to play towards, and I certainly didn't feel like I was putting opponents under pressure. I don't know what can be done about this or if it was just the draws I had or what.

@Arianrhod

I tried Angel-Fit and loved it, sadly my meta has plenty of combo decks such as belcher and what not. Seems like the sb plans against such combo is too slow unless I actively mulligan for a hand with therapy (it also does not mean I will definitely hit the crucial pieces). Any plans against such decks for Angel-Fit? I am very used to having burning wish to find answers against them if they go for the empty the warrens route or leave in play a belcher to be activated the next turn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fireiced

@Arianrhod

I tried Angel-Fit and loved it, sadly my meta has plenty of combo decks such as belcher and what not. Seems like the sb plans against such combo is too slow unless I actively mulligan for a hand with therapy (it also does not mean I will definitely hit the crucial pieces). Any plans against such decks for Angel-Fit? I am very used to having burning wish to find answers against them if they go for the empty the warrens route or leave in play a belcher to be activated the next turn.

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Sometimes luck. Sometimes mull to your hate. I played and beat Belcher twice at SCG Mpls (round 3 and 8) with Angel/Feeder Fit.

My report: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post742084 (if you hadn't see it)

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Originally Posted by MrIggins

-I distinctly remember wanting to Zenith up a 4-drop to Pod into an Archangel and being unable to.

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I remember one of our local nic fitters used spike weaver in his list. Doesn't seem bad.
Wickerbough Elder is also a decent option at times.

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Originally Posted by jbone2016

Sometimes luck. Sometimes mull to your hate. I played and beat Belcher twice at SCG Mpls (round 3 and 8) with Angel/Feeder Fit.

My report: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post742084 (if you hadn't see it)

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Pretty much this. You can't be afraid to mull for business against combo decks, even though you sometimes need to throw away perfectly reasonable hands -- they aren't reasonable in the world of what your opponent is doing. And sometimes you do just need to get lucky. We're bringing a knife to a gun fight in the combo matchup.

Pod and Zenith function in much the same way for Thune as Wish does in Scape.

vs Empty you have:

Pod -> Necroplasm (assuming that he does check out and ends up in the list)
Pod -> Orzhov Pontiff
Pod -> Rector -> Deed (assuming sac outlet, or if you can soak 1 hit to then sac to pod)
[Deed]

vs in-play Belcher:

Pod / Zenith -> Harmonic Sliver

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Noted@Sam -- I'll provide some thoughts on this stuff either later tonight or Friday morning sometime.....I'm super busy right now ._.

Ive taken some time to absorb the deck and started testing pretty heavily since im helping a friend build a version of this deck. I would like some thoughts on where the list is currently at:

Lands 22
3 grove of the burnwillows
3 verdant catacombs
3 wooded foothills
3 swamp
2 forest
2 bayou
1 badlands
1 mountain
1 phyrexian tower
1 kessig wolf run
1 thespian stage
1 dark depths

Creatures 14
4 veteran explorer
2 abyssal persecutor
1 scavenging ooze
1 eternal witness
1 huntmaster of the fells
1 thrun, the last troll
1 grave titan
1 primeval titan
1 wurmcoil engine
1 broodmate dragon

PW 3
2 liliana of the veil
1 garruk primal hunter

Artifacts/enchants 6
3 SDT
3 pernicious deed

Sorceries 8
4 GSZ
4 cabal therapy

Instants 7
3 punishing fire
2 abrupt decay
2 crop rotation

Currently 60 cards with more focus on 'titans' and lands. The thespian depths combo really hasnt come up that often tbh but its in for now until I get a bead on it. The persecutors have been insane especially with crop rotation tutoring for tower or finding kessig wolf run (outraced a progenitus today with it). The main things im not sure about atm are thrun, eternal witness, and the dark depths combo. The first two because they always feel underwhelming and the latter because its not often necessary although I dont see why having the option is really a bad thing. The deck can easily start dropping bombs as early as turn 2 onward and I would like to fit something a little nastier in at the 3-5cc slots, just not sure what. Hymns have also come to mind. Any ideas or input?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tombstalker

Currently 60 cards with more focus on 'titans' and lands. The thespian depths combo really hasnt come up that often tbh but its in for now until I get a bead on it. The persecutors have been insane especially with crop rotation tutoring for tower or finding kessig wolf run (outraced a progenitus today with it). The main things im not sure about atm are thrun, eternal witness, and the dark depths combo. The first two because they always feel underwhelming and the latter because its not often necessary although I dont see why having the option is really a bad thing. The deck can easily start dropping bombs as early as turn 2 onward and I would like to fit something a little nastier in at the 3-5cc slots, just not sure what. Hymns have also come to mind. Any ideas or input?

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I had a one of Vraska in my list at times. Isn't horrible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tombstalker

Ive taken some time to absorb the deck and started testing pretty heavily since im helping a friend build a version of this deck. I would like some thoughts on where the list is currently at:

Lands 22
3 grove of the burnwillows
3 verdant catacombs
3 wooded foothills
3 swamp
2 forest
2 bayou
1 badlands
1 mountain
1 phyrexian tower
1 kessig wolf run
1 thespian stage
1 dark depths

Creatures 14
4 veteran explorer
2 abyssal persecutor
1 scavenging ooze
1 eternal witness
1 huntmaster of the fells
1 thrun, the last troll
1 grave titan
1 primeval titan
1 wurmcoil engine
1 broodmate dragon

PW 3
2 liliana of the veil
1 garruk primal hunter

Artifacts/enchants 6
3 SDT
3 pernicious deed

Sorceries 8
4 GSZ
4 cabal therapy

Instants 7
3 punishing fire
2 abrupt decay
2 crop rotation

Currently 60 cards with more focus on 'titans' and lands. The thespian depths combo really hasnt come up that often tbh but its in for now until I get a bead on it. The persecutors have been insane especially with crop rotation tutoring for tower or finding kessig wolf run (outraced a progenitus today with it). The main things im not sure about atm are thrun, eternal witness, and the dark depths combo. The first two because they always feel underwhelming and the latter because its not often necessary although I dont see why having the option is really a bad thing. The deck can easily start dropping bombs as early as turn 2 onward and I would like to fit something a little nastier in at the 3-5cc slots, just not sure what. Hymns have also come to mind. Any ideas or input?

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I'm still testing 1 Kalonian Hydra... it kills in 2 turns, few thing are nastier than that for 5 mana...

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Voice was still terrible

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Yay I get to trade my voice :)

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Here's my current list:

//Creatures
1 Sylvan Ranger
1 Academy Rector
2 Archangel of Thune
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Deathrite Shaman - Maindeckable graveyard hate and alternate ramp source
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sun Titan
1 Thragtusk
1 Restoration Angel
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Spike Feeder
1 Necroplasm

//Instants and Sorceries
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith - In place of a top because I like to search for specific things

//Lands
1 Bayou
5 Forest
2 Marsh Flats
2 Phyrexian Tower
3 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Windswept Heath

//Artifacts & Enchantments
1 Faith's Fetters - Great at stalling/locking down annoying permanents
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Birthing Pod
2 Sensei's Divining Top

//Sideboard:
SB: 1 Nether Void
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 1 Orzhov Pontiff
SB: 1 Cranial Extraction
SB: 1 Memoricide
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor - This gives me lots of options including humility vs sneak & show and choke vs. blue
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Harmonic Sliver
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers

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In arianrhod's article, he mentioned that we couldn't go infinite with melira + redcap/finks + viscera seer. That made me think...what if we could?

We already have the finks, redcap, and pods, and viscera seer could be a sac outlet for explorer too. Thoughts?

I like pod in nic fit, but that combo barely makes it in modern... it shouldnt have any chance on legacy. Also, putting too many 1-of you will find yourself with plenty of marginal use creatures in many matches.

Yesterday I play this list with some friends... i won 4-1 against deathblade, I lost 3-0 against goblins, 2-2 against Patriot... all this games without SB.

Pod Rock

Creatures [19]
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Restoration Angel
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Heons
1 Wurmcoil Engine/ Grave Titan


Engine [8]
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Birthing Pod
1 Recurring Nightmare

Equipments [1]
1 Batterskull

Removals [7]
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay

Discard [4]
4 Cabal Therapy

Lands [22]
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Scrubland
4 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold

SB [15]
4 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

I finally cut off Dryad arbor... think about this... any hand 1 lander with gsz should be an instant mull, so you should keep any hand with gsz and two lands, in this case i rather fetch for veteran explorer than dryad arbor. MVPs metamorph and resto angel are very useful to get plenty of value from your cards. Having kitchen finks in play with pod means to draw free resto angels.

Another card i took out was strangleroot geist.Yes, it's could to pod twice but you only get a 3/2 haste which his cost isnt too easy to play on T2, so I replace it with SFM and it has been great. You can put BSkull on play and then pod the sfm away...you can copy bskull with metamorph and get it back anytime you want to copy something else.

Thrun was a dificult cut, but it has the same function as sigarda and i would never trade thrun with pod for thragtusk or sigarda, so I replace it with Murderous Redcap which has been nice to keep some board control, especially against DRS

Ugh, that BUG Pod list I was working on is way worse than I thought. Tested it a lot over the last week and was super disappointed in everything from the draws to the manabase.

3/10 would not play again.

The white is still intriguing due to Academy Rector, but Pod still has some inherent weaknesses to worry about.

Caleb, have you tried the Scapeshift version yet?

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Originally Posted by CalebD

Ugh, that BUG Pod list I was working on is way worse than I thought. Tested it a lot over the last week and was super disappointed in everything from the draws to the manabase.

3/10 would not play again.

The white is still intriguing due to Academy Rector, but Pod still has some inherent weaknesses to worry about.

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Rector gets recurring nightmare or primeval bounty which puts you waaaay ahead. Except vs show and tell :P

I played the Scape version in an Open. Didn't like it at all.

Would rather just Grave Titan people.

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Originally Posted by CalebD

I played the Scape version in an Open. Didn't like it at all.

Would rather just Grave Titan people.

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Why not just play Natural Order?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blastoderm

Why not just play Natural Order?

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I use Natural Order in SB and it has been good. First game i need graveyard recursion and artifacts (pod bskull) to win the game. Game 2 i took some of this things expecting people will put sb against it and play NO combo on g2/3

Can someone post the core of Rector? I want to upgrade my NicFit list and that seems like a good place to go.
Thanks!