Yeah Primeval Titan is also a good choice but if you want to go for Zenith to finish the game maybe you should go for Broodmate Dragon rather than Primeval TitanQuote:
Originally Posted by Tao
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Yeah Primeval Titan is also a good choice but if you want to go for Zenith to finish the game maybe you should go for Broodmate Dragon rather than Primeval TitanQuote:
Originally Posted by Tao
Got 2nd at Mythic for just shy of $250 credit today, with Scapewish. I'll have a report up probably Monday morning. I went completely undefeated until the finals, then my luck ran out and I died in two very, very narrow games to BUG control. They were easily winnable if he didn't draw quite as good, or if I drew a little bit better...just the way the cookie crumbled. Certainly not displeased, though.
If Burning Wishes weren't quite so hard to find I feel like I could really get behind Scapewish haha. All my aggro-loam lands are already pretty relevant to the list. Doesn't seem to be much of an investment to transition over and honestly, so far, all I see are super positive results haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
I usually green sun into titan or hardcast him to find any land + boseiju to roll out scapeshift the next turn to make u/w control players have it in their faces! :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by kabards
I have liked Prime Time a lot. The flying on the dragon is nice, but the trample and fetching 2 treetop villages is pretty sweet... A lot better vs miracles as they cant terminus away the lands easily.
Broodmate is sometimes not going very far in the control mirror. They Swords + Jace the Token, or Swords + Snapcaster the Swords or Deed everything. Primeval getting 2 Groves is almost impossible to outcontrol in G1, so now they have to race you and not vice versa.Quote:
Originally Posted by kabards
But Broodmate has the evasion that Primeval Titan don't get. Maybe it's case to case basisQuote:
Originally Posted by Tao
Ok this is my Tournament Report for tonight after playing 5 rounds of Swiss battling out for a Box of Return to Ravnica. I'm using my Punishing Nic-Fit 30+ players came to test their newly built deck.
Round 1 vs UW Miracle. 2-0
Game 1 : I won the die roll, I got a good hand, 1 Veteran Explorer, 2 Lands, 1 Zenith, Cabal Therapy and 1 Huntmaster of the Fells, i disrupt his hand early and he doesn't have any answer to Huntmaster and a Thragtusk that came from Green Sun Zenith.
Game 2 : Mainboard out : 4 Veteran Exlorer, 4 Cabal Therapy, 1 Olivia Voldaren, 1 Punishing Fire, 1 Pernicious Deed. Sideboard in : 2 Pyroblast, 1 Red Elemental Blast, 3 Hymn to Tourach, 2 Duress, 3 Carpet of Flowers. Opening hand i got an early disrupt, Carpet of Flowers, Pyroblast and a 2 Green Sun Zenith. Disrupt + Carpet of Flowers + back up Pyroblast wins the game also a couple of Abrupt Decay that hit his counterbalance.
Round 2 vs Sneaky Show 1-2
Game 1 : Opening hand 1 Veteran Exlorer, Liliana of the Veil, 3 Lands and 1 Zenith, 1 Abrupt Decay. Im on the draw. He plays a land pondered then passes the turn. I only play Veteran Exlorer and pass the turn. 2nd turn he put his Ancient Tomb then cast Show and Tell and put Emrakul and i just put my land then passes his turn while smiling infront my face, Im just thinking that i can survive Emrakul if he doesn't have any counter in his hand. During my turn I cast my Liliana of the Veil and hoping that he doesn't have any counter in his hand. Successfuly i used the 2nd Ability of Liliana to put down his Emrakul then he was already controlled by Liliana.
Game 2 : An Easy win for him he has his Leyline of Sanctity in his opening hand, my Disrupt was locked in my hand and i could't get my Maelstorm Pulse in my deck.
Game 3 : Same as game 2 but he mulled for Leyline of Sanctity.
Round 3 : vs Esper Stoneblade. 2-0
Game 1 : Abrupt decay kills his Stoneforge Mystic and a couple of disrupt via Cabal Therapy and Huntmaster sealed the game.
Game 2 : win via Abrupt + Punishing Grove combo and early Carpet of Flowers and early Thragtusk wins the game.
Round 4 : vs Belcher 1-2
Game 1 : Lost via 1st turn Belcher
Game 2 : I play my Veteran Explorer then passes the turn. He combo out via Empty the Warrens with 16 Goblins then passes the turn. I put my Phyrexian Tower and sacrifice my Explorer and Deed for 0. Thragtusk via Zenith sealed the game.
Game 3 : He mulls for 6 then puts the Lion's Eye Diamond then passes the turn. I put my Veteran Explorer 1st turn even if i had an opening Cabal Therapy in hand, i think this was also my missplay during game 3. During his turn he got a top decked Belcher come from a Gitaxian Probe that sealed our game.
Round 5 : vs Dredge 2-0
Game 1 : An early Zenith to Scavenging Ooze sealed the game.
Game 2 : same as game 1 Scavenging Ooze is the MVP.
Thank you for reading my tournament report.
So it seems that Scapewish/Punishing Fit/Jund in general seems like the best bet in a fair environment, but very susceptible to the deck/hand based combo decks. Since Dredge has always been grave-based and, to a certain extent, alpha-strike based as opposed to cheat-in-big-bad-and-win or copy-this-spell-thirty-times-and-win, I'm not exactly surprised by that game.Quote:
Originally Posted by kabards
Though, I have to ask: did you think you could win against Belcher if you had Therapied for something first?
So I've been testing Deathrite Shaman a little and while I haven't played many games with it yet, I wasn't very impressed with it. I feel that Birds of Paradise might just be stronger, more consistently producing mana when that's what's needed (which is what i wanted Shaman to do).
Have any of you done much testing with the card? I'm really curious if it has a place in the deck since it seems really strong.
I don't think Deathrite Shaman does what this deck wants. On the flip side, I'm of the opinion that Deathrite Shaman is going to be the Noble Hierarch / Mom of Jund decks. The introduction of Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay gives me the feeling that straight up Jund decks are actually viable now. They have enough beaters, they have enough disruption now, and they have enough removal now.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrIggins
Maybe i could win my belcher match in 3rd game i would name Pyretic/Desperate Ritual i his hand rather than Belcher or Burning Wish to slower his phase then if i got named the correct card i would already name that match. I think it's better if you would be aggresively disrupt his hand early rather that put a Veteran Explorer and pass the turn, and well that was my Missplay during that game.Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner
I think I won our game 2 with Firestorm on your Ooze. :tongue: Great tournament report, and thanks for the advice on Nic Fit. I am planning to pick the deck up sometime soon, probably by December :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by kabards
Deathrite Shaman would be fit sideboard by BG decks, but for Nic-Fit scavenging ooze is enough for this deck just my opinion
Oh yeah forgot cause i'm already sleepy when i make this report trying to remember all the things that happen :laugh: 2nd game i loss to Dredge via Zombie swarm and a firestorm in the face of Scavenging :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by sherko7
Okay, here's the promised update. This is probably going to end up being a pretty huge post, covering a lot of topics, so I'll try to break it up as best I can.
ScapeWish:
4x Veteran Explorer
3x Wood Elves
2x Eternal Witness
3x Huntmaster of the Fells
2x Thragtusk
1x Primeval Titan
3x Pernicious Deed
3x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Burning Wish
4x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Scapeshift
2x Bonfire of the Damned
4x Taiga
3x Badlands
3x Bayou
2x Stomping Ground
4x Forest
3x Mountain
2x Swamp
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
SB:
3x Red Elemental Blast
3x Thoughtseize
1x Slaughter Games
1x Tsunami
1x Pulverize
1x Damnation
1x Virtue's Ruin
1x Reanimate
1x Innocent Blood
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Scapeshift
Unfortunately, this Mythic event was a bit smaller than usual -- we only had 23 people instead of the usual 30-35. Prizes were still guaranteed down through top 16, so you had to suck to not get something, although they're probably going to be decreasing a bit for the future, sadly. Regardless, there was a pretty good crop of talent in the room, as is normal for upstate New York.
R1: Gabe with Nic Fit Blue
Gabe's a friend of mine from the Ithaca crew, and he's been experimenting with Nic Fit for a few months now. Last I saw him, he was on straight G/B and hating it. I'd advised him to add a color. He'd previously played a lot of BUG Control, so it's hardly surprising that he went with blue. His list is a good bit different than some others that we've seen in here, for good or for ill. Regardless, game one I kept a slightly sketchy hand because I was pretty sure that he was on Nic Fit, and would therefore be accelerating me. It was like a two-lander with a Wood Elves, a Scapeshift, and some other 4+ drops. He didn't accelerate me (in fact neither of us saw a Veteran all game), but my deck decided it wanted to draw lands, so it worked out anyway. We went back and forth for a little while, I Scapeshifted, and he died.
Game two was hilarious, and featured the kind of shenanigans that can only happen in a Nic Fit mirror. We both had turn 1 Veterans. He swung into me, I blocked, and he played a turn 2 Consecrated Sphinx. He was only at 19, so I couldn't turn 2 him with the Scapeshift in my hand. I decided to be funny instead while waiting to get that one more land/point of damage. I Wished for Innocent Blood, then Wished again for Reanimate, taking his Sphinx. On his turn, he bounced Sphinx with Jace. Then he Therapied me, whiffing but seeing the Scapeshift. He didn't have a creature to flashback, so he died to angry mountains the next turn.
1-0/2-0.
R2: Tony with BW Stoneblade
Tony's my local/frequent carmate that appears in my reports a lot because we always seem to play every freaking event. I don't really remember too much about these games. I know that I won with Scapeshift both games, and I know that g2 he had gained a ton of life with a Batterskull and it just didn't matter. I think the mountains hit for like 42...
2-0/4-0.
R3: Phil with MUD
Phil is an acolyte of Timur's, so I knew that his list was going to be much more dangerous than a traditional MUD deck. Game one I have to choose between leading with Top or Explorer, because there's a very real danger of Chalice@1. I elect to go with Top, and pass turn. He makes a Grim Monolith and ships back. I play the Explorer and pass with Top mana open. He makes a Wurmcoil. We dance around for a bit, with me ramping and him not drawing more land. I eventually Wish for Innocent Blood, then Deed away the tokens and his Monolith -- literally the turn before he draws a Voltaic Key. Phew. He eventually digs out while I'm stuck on like 6 lands with the Scapeshift in hand, but with a Huntmaster and a Thragtusk in play, and drops a Steel Hellkite. I spin Top, see Bonfire, and chuckle. Draw step, Bonfire for 5, swing for lethal.
G2 I elect to not board. I'll be on the draw, so bringing in Thoughtseize is a horrible idea because he probably has Chalice@1. He leads Tomb pass, then drops a t2 Lodestone followed by a t3 Wurmcoil, I think via Monolith. I have four lands, so after doing some math I smile. I Wish for Pulverize, and sac my two mountains to wrath his board. He still has the two tokens, and three lands -- a pair of Tombs and a Port. He punches me and passes, then slips up and fails to Port me on upkeep, which lets me breath a sigh of relief and resolve a Pernicious Deed to kill the tokens. We both take a few turns digging out of our respective holes, and I eventually Scapeshift him for way more than lethal. He looks sad.
Note that at various points in these games, I therapied him and he had Platinum Emperions in his hand, which I was absolutely terrified of. It occurred to me later that I could Scapeshift with lethal +3 mountains, pointed the last three triggers at Emperion, and then the rest at his face and he would have still died. At the time, though, I was scared shitless of that thing.
3-0/6-0.
R4/R5 ID.
Top 8 decides to play, since Henry was playing Big Red and was feeling confidant as the first seed. Naturally he lost in the first round of Top 8, but at that point Top 8 felts like playing it out anyway, so whatever. I was 2nd seed, so once he lost, I got the privilege of being on the play every match!
Top 8: Connor with Death and Taxes
Connor is a newer member of the Ithaca crew, and I think this was actually his first legacy event away from home. Timur attempted to console him at various points because this matchup is ATROCIOUS for Death and Taxes. It's almost impossible for them to beat Scapewish. Game one I Virtue's Ruined him twice, then Scapeshift FTW. The Thoughtseizes in my board were relevant for the first time ever here, as I Wished for one to discard his equipment that he tutored for with Stoneforge. I didn't board anything. Game two looks an awful lot like game one, except I won quicker.
Top 4: Nich with Team Italia
Nich and I have a habit of having good games. He usually falls somewhere in the Deadguy/Zombardment/Italia range...he's been playing Bombardment a lot lately, but since Mythic is developing a tendency for MUD decks (which just SHITS on Bombardment), he opted to play something that doesn't scoop to that matchup.
Both of our boards stay pretty clear throughout these games, and Scapeshift does the heavy lifting. He had some good times ripping Therapy off the top on like turn 20 when we have one card in hand, because obviously it's another Therapy. Etc. At the end of the day, he can't overcome the mountains.
Finals: Some dude with BUG Control
Unfortunately I never got this guy's name. Pretty sure he was another member of the Ithaca crew that I'd not met before, since he had borrowed like half of his deck from Timur. My luck ran out hard here. He goes for fast pressure g1, with a Goyf and a Clique beating down. Other than those two, however, he's flooding out hard, but so am I. He has no cards in hand, and is WELL with Scapeshift range. My outs are like any non-land card in my deck. I rip a Badlands. Awkward. First game I lost all day =(
Game two he drops a fast Jace, and has literally just enough counterspells to protect it. Like...if he had one fewer counterspell or I drew one more threat, I won the game. These games couldn't have been closer. If he drew slightly worse or I drew slightly better, it would have been completely different. Still, though, I'm content with my 2nd place finish, good for $240 store credit, which along with some trade-ins means I now have 2 Goyfs again, and I'm back up to a playset of Bobs (which is relevant for vintage and modern). Scapewish has now won me just shy of a grand between Vestal, Mythic, and local events, making it the most successful version...even if I enjoy the Rector version more =(
There's pretty much nothing I would change about the decklist at the moment. Everything has a purpose, and is the best option for that purpose. Pulverize is a little questionable, and can be replaced if you don't have MUD or Affinity in your local metas. The deck just ROLLS to MUD without it, though, so it's probably worth the insurance to keep it around just in case.
Biggest slop of the day: I didn't open a single Slaughter Games in two boxes, and my foil preorders just shipped on Friday. So Friday night at Draft, I literally SECOND-PICKED a Slaughter Games just so I had one for legacy. And then I DIDN'T FREAKING USE IT ONCE. Rage. So much rage.
Steve was running my Rector deck, and went 2-2-1 for a top 16 finish, largely because he's terrible. He lost to Nich's Team Italia because he didn't get back Sun Titan with Nightmare, opting for Thragtusk instead; he lost to Merfolk because he was stupidly greedy; he beat Burn despite slipping up his Yosei lock at 1 life, while looping Cranial Extraction and somehow failing to take Fireblast; he beat Death and Taxes (different player than top 8); and he drew with a different BW Stoneblade player so that they were both in top 16. I think that he technically won that match, though, when they played it out. He'll be practicing with it all week, and then running it at SCG Providence, so here's hoping he does well with it.
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Topic 2: Rector update / boarding thoughts
1x Starved Rusalka
4x Veteran Explorer
2x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Fierce Empath
2x Eternal Witness
3x Academy Rector
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
2x Baneslayer Angel
1x Thragtusk
1x Sun Titan
1x Yosei, the Morning Star
1x Moat
3x Pernicious Deed
1x Recurring Nightmare
1x Faith's Fetters
1x Phyrexian Arena
3x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Diabolic Intent
1x Vindicate
1x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Bayou
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
3x Windswept Heath
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Forest
3x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Phyrexian Tower
//SB
3x Carpet of Flowers
1x Nether Void
1x Raking Canopy
1x Humility
1x Harmonic Sliver
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Aven Mindcensor
3x Extirpate
1x Cranial Extraction
1x Memoricide
This hasn't actually changed that much. I've been thinking about putting in a Vraska somewhere, probably in the sideboard, but I haven't tried it yet. Vraska has impressed me as a card, so far, but I don't know what/where I want to put her yet. I suspect that sideboard will be here eventual home, probably at the cost of the do-nothing Mindcensors. I like Mindcensor in theory, because it helps out vs Maverick while also being effective vs combo. In practice, though, they're somewhat underwhelming.
Yosei over Kokusho is completely correct, and I'm annoyed that it took me this long to realize that.
Harmonic Sliver has been awesome, and I believe is correct over Qasali for the "artifact kill dude slot." It kills something and then leaves a body behind to ramp through Tower, pass through Nightmare, or sac to Therapy. This can be surprisingly relevant.
Sakura-Tribes have definitely been better than Viridian Emissaries for me in testing. If you are in a matchup where you need to Therapy them, you can still flash it back on the snake...you don't get your land, but if you're vs combo you care less about the land and more about the discard. Usually, Sakura-Tribe fogs, ramps, and makes Nightmare active much, much earlier than it otherwise would be, which is all I could ask for from a 2-drop.
Ooze has been great in the sideboard. I still like other cards over it in the maindeck, but I can't disagree that Ooze is fantastic in some matchups.
I think that the only change I'm looking at making is cutting the Mindcensors, probably for a Vraska and a Deathrite Shaman, more for testing purposes than tournament readiness. If you're taking Rector to an event and you want to copy my list, run it with Mindcensors for now. They're the weakest link, but I don't have anything that's "confirmed better," if you will.
Now, for sideboarding. Steve specifically asked me to write this up so that he has something to go on for Providence....largely because I kept yelling at him as he boarded out Sakura-Tribe Elder every match.
I will note before I go into this that these are rough guides, not exact do-or-dies. Depending on the player and their individual style/list/experience level, I'll board differently. But as a rule of thumb, here you go:
Maverick:
IN: Ooze, Mindcensors. If they're running Stoneforge, bring in the Sliver.
OUT: Nightmare, 1 Rector, 1 Veteran. If Sliver is coming in too, take out Pulse.
Notes: Maverick runs multiple Oozes, which will make Nightmare horrible. I usually board out 1 Rector to hedge against a competent player, but if the game goes to 3 and I get the feeling that my opponent doesn't know how to exile Rector to fizzle her trigger (don't spread that secret around, since probably 80-90% of people don't know about it), I'll usually board her back in. Pulse is less good than Sliver is if you need an artifact kill for equips, because Mother of Runes is a card. Boarding out 1 Veteran is fine here, because they'll usually ramp your opponent, and that can be dangerous because a lot of Maverick lists have started to adopt Armageddon to fight Miracles. If they Armageddon you g2, board out 2 more Explorers for Cranial and Memoricide to remove that from the equation. If they're running Armageddon, they'll probably board out Thalia, which means you need the ramp a bit less. You still have 1 Explorer at that point to Zenith for, and you still have the Tribe-Elders. Plus, your cards are better at every level on the curve than theirs are.
RUG:
IN: Carpets x3, Canopy, Ooze
OUT: Yosei, Titan, Empath, Nightmare, Phyrexian Arena
Notes: You ride your 5-drops to victory post-board. Baneslayers, Tusk, and Sigarda are all more than capable of finishing the match. You also have the ability to hardlock their combat via Moat + Canopy. Nightmare comes out because RUG often boards in dredge hate in this matchup. If you don't see gy hate g2, feel free to board it back in g3. Arena comes out because RUG can get some wickedly fast openers, and can put you low enough on life, especially with threat of burn, that you bleeding every turn for a card is a bad idea.
Show and Tell (various):
IN: Everything except Canopy and Ooze.
OUT: Deeds, Moat, Nightmare, Sun Titan, Thragtusk, Yosei, Empath, Vindicate, Pulse, 1 Explorer
Notes: Sliver beats Sneak Attack and Omniscience, which is why it comes in. Sometimes that won't be good enough, but you shave percentages where you can. I hate playing vs Show and Tell decks because you have to take out all of your fun cards. Like, the deck is completely anti-fun. Your sole goal in life is to make their life as much of a living hell as they've made yours. Nether Void rapes Omniscience, especially if it comes down before they Show and Tell. Humility turns off Griselbrand and Emrakul. Cranial and Memoricide are obvious. Extirpate pairs with Therapy to strip key threats, like Burning Wish, or if you get lucky, Omniscience/Emrakul/Griselbrand/Show and Tell. Extirpating Brainstorm is perfectly acceptable too, because it will both slow them down and make their deck much clunkier -- if they can't trade in excess combo pieces for cards that do something, they bog down really quickly. Don't forget that Therapy (they in resp. Brainstorm hiding their good cards), followed by Extirpate can be a pseudo Mind Twist, since it forces them to shuffle away their two best cards. Carpets accelerate you into more bombs. Etc. Try to be as much of a dick as you can, and you're probably on the right track.
Miracles:
IN: Carpet x3, Cranial, Memoricide, Canopy, Sliver.
OUT: Explorer x4, Deed x2, Moat
Notes: Most Miracles players I've played against board out Counterbalance in this matchup. Regardless, if you're on the play, you call Top with Therapy. If you're on the draw, you call Counterbalance just in case. Counterbalance can be a big problem if it comes down early. Mid-late game, though, and it's useless -- which is why IMO boarding it out is correct from the Miracles viewpoint. Explorer is horrible here because they have as many basics as we do, but their threats are Jace+counterspells and Entreat. Sliver gives you can out to Counterbalance, but more importantly it acts as a Green-Sunnable Naturalize for Detention Sphere/O-Ring. Fetters locks down Jace. Canopy nullifies Entreat until they can find a Sphere/Ring. You only need 1 Deed in deck because it's largely horrible against them, but you want 1 copy so you can just sit on it to make Entreat bad. Cranial and Memoricide take Entreat ASAP, followed by Jace. They're a slow, durdly control deck with like 3 win conditions. Strip their wincons and they get much, much worse. Your threat density is insane, especially with Nightmare looping and Yosei threatening to lock them out. Arena is amazing in this matchup, since they have no actual card advantage -- they live off the top of their deck with Top, and can't actually draw cards.
That's all I'm going to say about sideboarding, because I think that you should be able to get the general gist of what you board in vs what. The thought patterns are basically the same for every other legacy deck.
===========================================================
I have one more topic to discuss, but I'll make a separate post for that, since my browser is lagging. I don't like double-posting, but this post has grown large enough that I feel it necessary for my sanity, if nothing else.
Okay, post #2, topic #3: Future Sight.
Timur (Zirath on here) and I were talking about this a good bit Saturday, and after watching Gabe go totally apeshit one game with a Oracle of Mul Daya, I think that there really is something to be said for the idea. However, I think that Future Sight is more of a specific version under the umbrella of Nic Fit Blue, as we have PFire, Scapewish, and Jund under Nic Fit Red, and so on. If you just shove Future Sight into a blue Nic Fit deck, I agree with whoever noted earlier that it's win more. It definitely is. That said, I feel that there is a Future Sight-centered build to be discovered that is at least as good, if not better than the BUG lists. There are two primary issues that I see on inception:
1: no white. Unless we want to get really, really crazy with the mana base (looking at you, City of Brass), there's no way we can easily splash white, and I've noticed that basically every BUG Nic Fit list I come up with is better with white. Sigarda is still the best, Unburial Rites is still amazing, Sun Titan still goes hand-in-hand with filthy Gifts piles, and so on. I will note here that, to my knowledge, there has never been a City of Brass control deck in legacy, while Vintage had 5c Stax for many years. I'm not sure that now is really the time, but the idea HAS been effective in the past.
2: Finding Future Sight. If we're basing a list around the concept of Future Sight, then we need either a way to efficiently find it, or ways to emulate it. Oracle of Mul Daya comes immediately to mind here, as a solid GSZ target if nothing else. The lack of white bites us in the ass yet again, as we can't use Rector or Enlightened Tutor to act as additional copies. At the same time, we don't really want multiple Future Sights, because they're absolutely useless in multiple. "Yeah man, I can REALLY cast shit from the top of my deck now!"
My best thought for #2 invalidates #1: Grim Tutor. Diabolic Intent is also an option, but that depends on how many creatures we're running. I believe that something like 2 Grim/2 Intent is probably a reasonable place to start, and then can be pared/tuned later depending on testing. With Thragtusk and something like Elixir of Immortality, the lifeloss from Tutor should be able to be compensated for, and while most decks care about the 3-mana cost, we really don't.
-This- is a version I can wholeheartedly support Trinket Mage in. Finding Top is going to be very important, and a Future Sight list is going to want to be abusing the topdeck lands as much as possible (Volrath's Stronghold and Academy Ruins). Primeval Titan is probably important. Mage can also find Elixir of Immortality, which buys a chunk of time and provides a cheap, renewable shuffle effect. It would also allow us to not worry about milling out from excessive card advantage...or if we just went balls-deep and ran the Helm/Cloud Key while we're at it, to storm off. Obviously Jace and Brainstorm are the nuts here, as they quickly become Recall depending on what we're putting back on top.
I have yet to sketch up a list, but I am very interested in pushing R&D forward on this. I'd also be very interested to hear what thoughts you've had thusfar, Timur -- hopefully we can get something hammered out here, because I do believe there is potential, even if it'll be a few months before it's ready for Jupiter/Mythic.
Infinite shout outs. For reference, the BUG player is Morgan; he's relatively new to our group (about a month) but he's definitely doing good work. And yes, almost the entire deck was composed of my cards. The only cards that weren't mine were Jace, Deed, Abrupt Decay and Shaman and that's only because my Jaces are on loan.
In addition, we have been calling Nich's deck the White Picket Fence. Originally, he used to play a BR deck that was the evolution of the Gate, which we called the Fence. Why the Fence? You can hop over it. We've added white and here we are now.
On the topic of Future Sight, I have been tossing this in my head for a long time. Here's the cards I know I want to play:
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Future Sight
2-3 Jace the Mind Sculptor
3 Sensei's Diving Top
Luckily, this is very open ended.
In addition to the white issue (Rector is the best tutor), the other problem is the nature of black and blue. Black and blue, by far, are the most parasitic colors in Legacy. The most powerful black cards require you to have absurd amounts of black mana (Grim Tutor) and they require you to tap out. The most powerful blue cards require you to play other blue cards to make those blue cards good (Force). This creates a problem in deck construction because you can't go deep in either color because you will either end up with to much manipulation or too much disruption.
Now the other issue is what does the deck do. You've already suggested the Trinket Mage toolbox (I hate Trinket Mage for reference); however, the Helm-Top combo is something I can get behind because of how powerful of a secondary win it can be. The thought I had was going into the Turboland area. You have Jace and Explorer and we already talked about Oracle. This kind of deck can also reward you for playing permission (Mystic Snake) because you will have an effective extra card. You also get rewarded more for Fact or Fiction since it draws even more cards with Future Sight and it finds Future Sight better than other cards besides Grim Tutor.
I could also get behind 5CC. Gotta play all the Magus of the Moon.
The Rector version is mighty fun to play, but half the reason I asked a couple weeks back about running different versions is because Scapeshift seems to be the nuts. Sadly I am miles away from having the resources for that build.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
I've been on the Nic Fit train for only 3 or so months now and only now feel like I really have it down (though I'm the type of player who needs lots and lots of games w/ a deck). Part of the reason Nic Fit is awesome though, is the complexity makes it fun. Prior to Nic Fit I was on UR Delver for 2 months and couldn't wait to be done w/ it (after GP Atlanta).Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
I'm on a very similar list these days:Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
-1 Baneslayer, -1 SDT, +1 Eladamri's Call, +1 Elspeth Knight-Errant
Not too surprising though, given I modeled it after much of your leg work :cool: I've got some slight mana base changes too, but they're more due to availability than anything. Seems solid as I have it though.
My board differs a bit more:Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
-2 Mindcensor, -1 Extirpate, +1 O-Ring, +1 Thrun, +1 Leyline
O-Ring is good because you can put it on any Show & Tell and take out whatever they play. They'll still get a chance to respond w/ instants off Omni or draw of Grisselbrand, but I think it's solid. Thrun and Leyline I'm less sold on. When I put in Leyline I love it in the opener, but seldom is it worth mulling for, so maybe it's wrong. I actually put Thrun in vs Maverick. Hexproof (stones StP) + regeneration go a long way.
Speaking of new toys, I have yet to figure out how to squeeze in an Abrupt Decay. It replaces neither Vindicate nor Maelstrom Pulse thanks to the occasional need to nuke a land or respond to an Empty the Warrens.
This is a constant battle for me too. "No, do not board out Elders!" It seems like such a lame card, but sometimes you gotta have it. Same w/ Rusalka. It's counter-intuitive to be boarding out Deeds, Explorers, and bombs with this deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
The boarding advice is solid. I should put it in my notebook just so I'm not doubting myself about taking out 'key' cards.
I tend to think of boarding the deck as such: game one, we want the most ludicrous over-the-top shenanigans we can get, because we don't want to lose game one if we can at all avoid it. We need all of those bombs, because that's how we win games.Quote:
Originally Posted by slikwilly
However, some decks, we don't need them. Or we need different bombs.
Like vs RUG -- it's actually impossible to RUG to beat Sigarda. You don't need Sun Titan there, or Yosei. All they do is end up in your opening hand and make you rage because you're going to struggle getting to that much mana (and be Daze proof). They can't profitably interact with Thragtusk. They can Gilded Drake Baneslayer, which is annoying, but they have to find one before she kills them -- and even then, you can either sac your Baneslayer to Rusalka/Tower in resp to the trigger, or you can crack Deed@2, which causes the trigger to fizzle as well. And believe me, there are few things scarier than RUG of all decks having a Sun Titan. He is the literal first card I take out g2 -- even though he's usually an all-star g1. Like you said, it's very counter-intuitive.
Also don't disregard the bombiness of stuff like Cranial Extraction. There are plenty of matchups where that's all the bomb you need. It doesn't fight in the traditional way, and it can't really turn sideways, but it can do every bit as much damage as an unchecked Sun Titan can when used properly.