@DudeItsCorey: Congrats on doing well!
You don't find Sigarda sans Cradle to be problematic?
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@DudeItsCorey: Congrats on doing well!
You don't find Sigarda sans Cradle to be problematic?
Well I'm only boarding her in against the super grindy matchups, where the games last long enough that mana isn't an issue. If I had her mainboard then yes I would need Cradle to battle against the delver matchups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warden
Nice work Corey! If I could turn back time to before SCG Oakland I would and put either Abrupt Decay or Punishing Fire in my list. I am still really wanting to play 4 color for both DRS and P Fire, but I will have to test some more to see if it is worth going full-greed.
Hey guys, I know a lot of you are getting ready for New Jersey. I love seeing Maverick do well (even if it may mean more SB hate for it), so I figured I would drop in and share my two cents on the deck. To give myself a little bit of credibility, I’ve top 8’d three of the last four SCG legacy opens that I’ve played with Maverick. One of my friends let me borrow the deck a few years back (during Innistrad block when it was one of the big 3), and I’ve been rockin the deck ever since. I took a few months off of playing it after it had been proclaimed dead, but shortly afterwards I realized how ALIVE it was. I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format. I am an above average player, but I attribute all of the success I’ve had in legacy to the deck: Maverick.
One of the biggest reasons that I’ve had success where others have not is my decklist (It also takes a little bit of play skill and a good amount of luck ). Unfortunately, many if our Maverick brethren have the wrong idea about how to build a deck. It makes me happy that in the last six months, I have seen a lot of the lists starting to look more like the one I play. Without further ado, I will post my current decklist and explain some of the cards.
Creatures:
4 Mother of Runes
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Courser of Kruphix
4 Knight of the Reliquary
Spells:
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Lands:
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacomb
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gaea’s Cradle
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
SB:
3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Path to Exile
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Choke
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Containment Priest
1 Not Sure- Scavenging Ooze, Gaddock Teeg, Voice of Resurgence, Maze of Ith, Engineered Plague, Oblivion Ring, Wilt Leaf Liege
The main point that I want to stress about deckbuilding is consistency. Just because legacy is format where people do broken things, does not mean that you need to build your deck to be the most powerful. On the contrary, I love Maverick because it is a creature deck with a high level of consistency.
4 Deathrite, 1 Noble Hierarch
Deathrite being printed was a huge boon for the deck. He really is a bomb that wins fair matches, while fixing your mana and hating on the GY. Sometimes he’s an unreliable mana producer, so that’s why we play a hierarch. The biggest upgrade of DS over NH is the second point of toughness. In this format especially, it sucks to have one toughness.
4 Thalia
I can’t tell you whether my favorite creature in the deck is Thalia or Knight. What I can tell you is the 4 is the only number of Thalia’s I would ever consider playing. Any number less is just plain wrong. The format is built on brainstorm (and now to a lesser extent treasure cruise). Doing those things for one mana, really is not fair. Thalia makes them pay for all that cantripping, while crushing a lot of combo decks. Look at the winning delver decks. See how many cards they have that don’t affect the board, then think how bad it would suck to have a hand full of that when your opponent has a Thalia. Seriously- I want every opening hand I draw to have her. After she gets countered of bolted, I want another.
2 Pridemage, 1 SB
Previously I’ve played 4 of this guy, and he really is that good. This is a card that people cut, but in reality he is a backbone of the deck. There are a lot of random legacy decks that needs artifacts and enchantments to function. Even when the targets aren’t plentiful, you can normally snag something to mess up your opponent. Then there are those poor people who can only beat you with artifacts… In that case, you want as many as you can get.
1 Courser of Kruphix
My friend (Impulse on the source- who is the guy who taught me how to play Maverick) suggested this Courser to me. I liked it, but was a little skeptical at first. 3 mana is a lot, and I would have to cut a pridemage… After trying him, I’m hooked. It gains life, draws cards, and provides card selection. You feel like you are doing something illegal when you use him with library. With UR being big now, the lifegain and the ability to block a swiftspear comfortably are huge. Sometimes people like to bring in GY hate, and it’s nice to have a guy that functions well through RIP.
2 Sylvan Library
Many people don’t understand how good this card is… The library may not look sexy but, the ability to match blue decks in card selection and advantage is paramount. The second copy is basically a gimme, because it’s not likely that you will draw it with the first in play. People hate on it for being slow. It actually gives you more chances to draw the cards that you need on time.
1 Sword of Light and Shadow, 0 Batterskull
Back in the day, I played a batterskull… I also played 4 SFM then. With only 2, batterskull is not really that good. It just so happens that SoLS is really good against a batterskull. They can’t block your guy, or attack profitably (after a re-equip). I have thought about cutting the 3rd equipment and multiple in your opener makes for a clunky start, but the 3rd is really good against control decks- miracles and the like.
Manabase
Playing Maverick, you have your choice of utility lands. In the spots that are considered open, I’m maxing on wastelands, and playing a cradle and a canopy. Wasteland is one of the huge draws to playing the deck. I hate it when I see people cutting it. Cradle gives you the opportunity to power out equipment out of nowhere. I often get down to where cradle is my only land, yet I can still cast any GSZ or equipment drawn.
I don’t like stage/depths. It may just be a preference, but the mana is less consistent. It is pretty damn powerful, but I would prefer to err on the side of consistency. When you have activated Knight twice, you are normally going to win anways.
SB Thoughts:
More removal is needed to kill delver. Choke is super powerful in the right situation, but I would never want more than one, because sometimes it doesn’t do enough. Containment priest is the truth. I think ZP is good enough that if you want more of that effect, you don’t need to sacrifice your board and your life.
Cards I’m not playing:
Scryb Ranger- This guy seems like he does cool things, but is actually trash. Just play something else that actually does something. Ostensibly, he blocks delver, but in reality he dies to a bolt. Especially with the x/1 hate now, don’t play him.
Sylvan Safekeeper- It’s just not good. I don’t get why people play him
Aven Mindcensor/any other 1 toughness hate bear- The mindcensor can be very powerful and win you games, but when it comes down to it, it’s not consistent. Plus, with forked bolts and golgari charms here, I want to limit my x/1’s.
Dedicated GY hate- not necessary. You have GSZ and other good cards. Don’t waste space on cards that don’t do anything but hate the GY.
Random Thoughts
The biggest problem facing our deck in the current meta is the amount of hate for X/1s. Ever since TNN was printed, it has been coming. With UR delver being a DTB, more and more people are bringing forked bolts and SB hate. I really don’t like the hate… Maybe that’s how our opponents feel as we drop hate-bear after hate-bear. Anyways, hate sucks, but it’s out there for any good deck. It’s not unbeatable.
When you aren’t playing the blue card selection spells for consistency, your answers have to double as threats. That’s why I don’t like too much removal main, and love pridemages, Oozes, and Teegs.
I don’t love the punishing version due to its much worse mana and reliance on one toughness creatures for mana... And the fact that you are cutting Thalia to play the card. As I stated above, Thalia is awesome.
I may not be right on everything, but I know I’ve been winning a heck of a lot
@Herzog: It is awesome to see you on here. You are the authority on Maverick as far as I am concerned and your advice is greatly appreciated.
Played in my weekly local today with Dark Punishing Maverick expecting a meta of Tin Fins, Bant, and UR. Was met instead with Bant (2-0), UWr RiP Helm Miracles (0-2), and Death and Taxes (1-2).
Nothing notable in the Bant matches, just got there with amazing luck. UWr Miracles was a slaughter because I was not expecting the energy field combo and in each game my opponent got 2 RiPs (I was only playing 2 QPMs in the 75, something I regret). Didn't find them/they got countered when it mattered. Vs Death and Taxes I got there game 1, but games 2 and 3 I fell victim to my greedy manabase and RiP to keep me from punishing, as well as 2 Serra Avengers which I had no outs to after my Maze of Ith was Wastelanded.
@THerzog41
I play a list very much inspired by yours. A question for you: how do you feel about replacing the Noble Hierarch with a Birds of Paradise? Is the exalted trigger really that big of a boost? The fact that BoP taps for black and can carry a sword in the air seems like more upside.
@THerzog41 - Love your list! Courser makes a LOT of sense to me. Watching you play on the SCG circuit made me want to pick up Maverick again (I too thought it was dead when RTR came out!).
What are your thoughts on Abrupt Decay?
@THerzog41 Nice list: looks alot like the one Im working on now, so now i know im going im the right direction. However, I disagree in regards to Safekeeper and Scrub being outright bad.
Safekeeper works as a 1-of for the matchups where protecting your hatebears from removal is paramount. It also works against Karakas, Maze of Ith, and even Wasteland if its used against Dryad Arbor. the cost does suck ill give ya that.
Scrub on the other hand, is there for the same reason you run extra removal in the side. With only 4 stp in the main and only 2 libraries to find them, buying time against a flipped delver is crucial. Also, while iy does die to removal, it also plays nice with Mom to negate that drawback.
Might just be playstyle differences though (Ive been screwed ovr by consistency so i choose power)
About BoP: I have zero cards in the maindeck that can't be cast with a Savannah. I like the benefit of keeping black more of a splash. It may hold a sword well, but exalted is really good, swords already provide evasion, and it doesn't hold a Jitte well at all.
Abrupt Decay: I like it, but one mana removal is just so much easier to cast. For MD removal, I don't want to resemble a Jund deck. If you want that much removal, play Jund.
@THerzog41
I am a big fan of the list, and when choosing a deck for the GP, you are a large part of the reason I chose Maverick.
Right now, the only maindeck changes I have made are swapping out the SoLaS and Gaea's Cradle for the DD combo.
With 1 less equipment, Cradle's mana producing is slightly less relevant, and of course there are only so many land-toolbox slots,
especially ones with the awkward chance of not producing mana early (100% for DD, admittedly).
Dark Depths, while certainly lowering the decks consistency slightly, provides plans against Dredge, Burn, Storm, Elves, Bug, Jund,
and other decks that have none or few ways to deal with Marit Lage. In a few of these match ups, The difference between KotR
winning in 2-3 attacks and the token winning in 1 is large. UR Delver also has no way to answer it maindeck, and it's ability to instantly
end the game is powerful.
Against Delver where speed is key, and decks with sufficient answers for DD, it can be sided out to bring the land count back to 23, and
to potentially take advantage of opponents siding in ways to deal with it.
Without byes at the GP, and some of these decks being popular and cheap (Burn specifically), I am thinking to continue with this plan.
Do you think the logic is sound, or do you truly believe that playing the combo is wrong?
Thanks in advance.
Maverick is a poor depths deck and trying to lean on it to win in certain mus is a poor plan IMO
Also 4 of those decks can simply ignore it and swing through it
I have been testing Containment Priest and loving it.
So far I have brought it in vs Dredge, Reanimator, Elves, Sneak Attack, and Death and Taxes. Did work each time.
I played long time with the DD combo and a singleton Crop Rotation. Often it came unexpected. Also opponent Wastelands a land of mine and response Crop Rotation. Crop Rotation into Karakas against Show&Tell Reanimator. After SB into Bojuka Bog eventually. Crop rotation into a Wasteland is also great sometimes. I think Crop Rotation is a nice card. It slightly helps to improve the DD combo and even can get rid of one piece if the combo is already destroyed.
But I Don't know if the meta right now still allows it.
Stage/Depths is undeniably the most powerful land combo you can put in Maverick. There have been times when I wanted to play it. That being said, I think it's a trap. You always remember the times when lage would win the game. You may not remember the times where it was a complete blank. Unless you have stage, depths is a complete blank. We have no brainstorm. I don't want to run a card that has the potential to do absolutely nothing. That's saying nothing about how poor stage is without depths. It's just not where I want to be on the power/consistency scale. There are decks that are built to do broken things. Maverick isn't one of them.
SoLS, while being the weakest equipment in the deck, does have major upside. In addition to its power against batterskull and it attrition matches, try watching death and taxes try to beat it... It's nearly impossible.
Cradle is right where I want to be on the power/consistency scale. It's ok Everytime I have a creature. It's great whenever you have two, and it's busted when you get 3+. Playing Maverick, that's not hard to do. I mentioned the equipment. You have several other things to do with your mana: big green Suns, creature activations, and most notably, eating their entire graveyard with ooze.
@THerzog41: Thanks for all the input. It's great to see you posting here. I think you're the best pilot in the states with Maverick this year, given your big event success.
A few questions I need your insight on.
1. Your playstyle against Miracles? I've been in a rut against them and it's been literally auto-loss in competition since the summer
2. If you were expecting Miracles (like I am for the GP), what would you specifically pack in your SB to beat them?
3. Your impression of 3x Leyline of Sanctity for the upcoming GP. I expect budget-type burn in droves. Is this a poor inclusion over, say, 3x discard? There are serious pros and cons. I'm wondering your insight.
2 Teegs in the board, which also hose Elves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warden
It's not always that easy. On paper, Maverick seems like a great deck against Miracles. However, given how many answers they have and can dig for its very difficult to stay ahead. Karakas and Council's Judgement takes care of teeg, same with swords and venser should you not have a mother online. Hopefully people aren't going to follow Joe Losset's list and run 2 mainboard karakas. I like deluge for this matchup. Should you have an extra turn to not die to angels it can hit them. I also am playing with 3x Abrupt Decay in my 75 and it has help significantly. All in all its probably one of our most difficult matches of the top tier decks (along with elves). In the hands of the right pilot it can be very difficult to overcome. It comes down to not over committing into a terminus and getting blown out. There is some instances that you need to play around, like holding deathrite/mom when there is a hard lock of top + counterbalance. Play deathrite to bait them into throwing top on top of their deck and from there green sun for your Qasali. Also, destroying their top while they're fetching messes their gameplan. Armageddon is supposedly really good, although I have never seen my once post board so I can't attest to it. Sigarda has won me some games because it's hard for them to deal with after they have already cast a few terminus and don't have access to entreat. This is a deck that I would love having 2 Libraries against. Also, Chains of Mephistopheles is really amazing at stopping their card advantage and can sometimes prevent them from throwing a miracle card ontop of their deck with Jace and Brainstorm.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1mpulse
Either way, I don't imagine very many people want to grind with this deck for 16 rounds. Seem too taxing on the brain. However, many Europeans love this deck and there will be players like Reid Duke and Joe Losset that are going to run it. So it will be there, I just don't think it will be out in droves. It way too difficult of a deck to just pick up and play. Especially for a GP. I believe the biggest showing will be Burn, UR Delver and Patriot Delver/Midrange. However, I feel Miracles is really great against those 3 decks so I imagine that people maybe meta call it and play. So its better to be prepared.
What are Maverick matchups like currently in terms of DtB and popular decks?
Dodge Charbeltcher and Enchantress, against those decks you just cry. Miracles and Elves are probably our worst matchups. Amazing against Storm, Painter stone, Graveyard and creature matchups. Probably require more removal in the current meta for the fast delver decks. Have something in your sideboard to deal with Burn. Have something in your sideboard to deal with the various Combo decks that we are weak too. Have something in your sideboard to deal with 1 toughness creatures. I like Armageddon for Lands, Miracles and 12-Post which can be difficult decks to stay ahead of. Otherwise, it's not a blue deck which is why I don't believe it isn't as popular. Also, it can be more difficult to pilot because it's not blue. It's probably one of the most "fair decks" you are going to see. People call it a tier 1.5/2 deck, but I feel its because not a lot of people are playing it right now. It's a law of averages type situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner
I was largely all-in on the Dark Depths plan (and still am...maybe) but Gaea's Cradle does do nice things to speed up our game to catch up against UR Delver. My complaint against Scooze has been it requires a lot of green mana to put any dent in UR's yard to fight Cruise, and Gaea would certainly enable that for a one-time purge.
I haven't tested it, but it seems worth...marit.
However, Marit Lage can just win the game out of impossible situations or give you additional avenues to attack with - such as having Knights stonewalled by Pyro tokens while Delver swings over head for the win for a few turns, whereas you can use Knight defensively to power up the 20/20. Lage can also accelerate your win by putting the opponent on a 3 turn clock.
I've also been considering Cabal Pit to snipe Delvers and other x/2's, but I don't know if this deck can support the black mana.
My experience with Cabal Pit in Junk was that it was alright, but that I rarely fetched it. It's a nice out to a Mirran Crusader or a Mom, but it's a mix of "too slow" a lot of the time (filling your yard) and too unnecessary (if you're untapping with KotR you're often in an ok spot.)
In Junk I had great success with it in a SCG open, I used it to snipe SFMs all day long. I haven't used it recently though.
I'm currently running Maze of Ith as the flex land right now. I took Sigarda out of my main which now makes my curve end at 3. I don't believe cradle is necessary because I don't need a giant green sun zenith anymore (6 CMC for Sigarda). Maze can act as a "removal" land of sorts and work extremely well against fliers. Not to mention, the combat tricks. The only advantage of running Cradle is scooze in my opinion. However, there are enough green sources that scooze shouldn't be an issue to keep their graveyard down once you have stabilized the board. Against the super grindy matchups where they have ton of removal/board sweepers, cradle is the worst. I would rather have maze to hold back their goyf, batterskull, venser, flipped delver, etc. then run the risk of having a land that doesn't tap for mana.
I do agree, however, that Dark Depths combo is too greedy for our mana base. It can already be clunky as it is, and in certain matches it can be very unforgiving should you fetch for the wrong land. Now you're adding a colorless mana and a land that doesn't tap for anything (aside from when a blood moon or urborg is in play). Leave the dark depths combo for the lands decks I say.
Against miracles: Never ever empty your hand! Play your creatures step by step and start beating with one creature at a time. They always have Terminus! Make them use their best card for only 1 creature. I don't know how often I forgot that and my board got terminused... that's a loss. 1 card each turn loses to blue decks.
I see the point of the DD combo.... sad, but indeed a liiitle bit more consistent then. But what about a singleton Cavern of Souls? Great card against miracles, too. To land a 4/4+ Knight safely is huuuge. Against a lot of blue decks. Also Mother and Thalia benefit.
I think it's playable as there are 11+ humans in the deck and with 5 dorks one colorless land more shouldn't hurt that much! Of course it's much better if we play Nobles instead of DR, but I see that these days that's a no-go at some point!
Also, playing no DD combo I would go to 2 Horizon Canopies main. It's so helpful in longer games.
@DD/Stage:
My only reservation is that I'm averaging a free win each event I play in due to DD/Stage. I'm not sure Cradle + something > DD/Stage in the wins department. I totally agree about the mana consistency issues and the on paper arguments. The big upside for me would be running a 4th basic or 8th fetch -- things I really want in my manabase.
I still find DD = Cradle straight up. Cradle in the opener sucks and it's worthless when your board has nothing (ie; tapping Cradle produces no mana). The times my board is empty I tend to lose. Cradle's real upside is mitigating the "I can't play and equip in 1 turn to bury my opponent" situations I've seen myself fall into.
My greatest concern about not running Stage/DD or Maze of Ith is that it seems to change the value one can get out of KOTR. I understand dying before KOTR goes off is a big concern, however, when KOTR is out and Untapping, do those players still win the games that the DD/stage or Maze players win? I would argue that in many cases they wouldn't have the same chance. Is getting a fetch, wasteland, horizon canopy, Grove, bog really that big of an impact on the game, especially when we are losing in fair matches? I think further testing with the deck is the best proof one can give, but it sure seems scary to lower the power level of the Knight.
Been seeing lots of copies of Spirit of the Labyrinth in Junk and DnT. Has anyone done recent testing with the card in this deck against the Treasure Cruise meta? 1 toughness seems like a risk, but if he is unanswered it could make for a lot of dead cards.
Lastly, against UR delver, has anyone tried to play Mom not first to bate other creatures into getting bolted? It has seemed counter intuitive at times not playing her first, but when she lives to see an Untap phase it's really sweet.
I agree, once you drop all the utility lands for Knight then you may as well be playing Loxodon Smiter. Maze is good, but against UR Delver I feel like you'll lose to two Delvers or the classic Pyro swarm.
I think you're misconstruing it by pretending it's grabbing Bog/Karakas that wins with knight. KotR is relevant without Depths because he often swings as a 5/5 or bigger. Because he is huge you normally achieve lethal in the two untaps that Lage requires to setup (and often a third to swing.) Untapping with him means you've basically achieved board control in any scenario where the opponent doesn't have DRS + Goyf or you're facing lethal from Delver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strassbaw
You make an assumption that untapping with KotR in a losing board state happens often. In the cases it happens I'd argue that Lage isn't going to save you terribly often (since you'll likely need to untap two-three times.)
As an aside, there's never a good reason to play Smiter, and similarly, if you didn't run KotR, you'd run Goyf. KotR outsize nic fit and goyf and skull, he helps you deal with Dredge/Reanimator/S&T/12-Post. He's a "hatebear" of sorts. Claiming that without Depths he's a terrible 3-drop misses why you run him in the first place. He's not here just to beat, he's here to improve the myriad matches where a timely double-Wasteland, Karakas, (or Bog if you are so inclined) would insta-gib your opponent.
In some situations I also played Dark Depths to make an opponent waste it. If it's on the board they are usually stressed and fear the combo out of nowhere. So they need to do something. The combo then is destroyed but the opponent lost some ressources. Against StP decks I usually boarded DD out anyway. It's difficult to say. I wouldn't say it's not working or bad in maverick, but it requires a glod feeling and some mind games with your opponents. Even if they StP the token you get 20 life and a bigger Knight. It's just dangerous to combo out if the board is small and you don't have something left.
Having DD isn't going to miraculously save you from any losing board state that Legacy can present, but I do think that having the DD option is very valuable, and it can swing some board states in your favor. Against a bunch of Pyromancer tokens, or DnT, or Elves, (the list goes on) a big ass Knight charging into battle just won't win the game fast enough for my liking.Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
I will freely admit that even when I run DD, I more frequently skip it and just beat with the Knight after finding X Wastelands/Karakas/Bog/Cabal Pit, but it is not rare to find a game state where going for DD will end the game faster.
You certainly don't NEED to play DD to make Knight good, because Knight is plenty powerful without it. It's just another option you can keep in your wheel house, like Safekeeper is to GSZ, or Sword of Light and Shadow is to Stoneforge.
I agree with this...except KotR is female (she's a nice lady!)Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
When there's a team, I usually dig for wastelands to ensure my opponent can't come back. When KotR is alone, I debate about pulling the DD package -- it really depends upon the situation. Even if I don't go for DD/Stage, KotR is usually kicking so much ass already. Competitive players talk so much smack about her they often forget she's in and around 6/6 for 3 mana.
I've found KotR's role in the delver matchup is typically to fetch wastelands for their few duals. If Delver tosses out Island x2 + Mountain early, I just do my best to race them or keep KotR around to "value" thin the deck while blocking.
Against Miracles, I can't see enough KotRs. They are one of the few cards Miracles panics about -- because KotR has the ability to set up an insta-win in DD/Stage or beat them down a few times.
@Spirit of the Labyrinth:
I'm of the opinion that this card doesn't do enough. Against delver it's literally fodder. I'd much prefer Canonist, which can actually block stuff while limiting spells. Delver also can't 2-for-1 me with Forked Bolt. Spirit is only "strong" against Miracles, where it's 3/1 frame can actually attack.
Yeah, that's a good point. In the beginning I always tried to asemble the combo. That's a big fault. Sometimes just grabbing a Wasteland via Knight is better than setting up the combo. It's very situational and as I said requires some practice and a good feeling. For me it just always felt good to know that the combo exists somewhere in my deck and I theoretically have the opportunity to set it up. For the moment I will keep it in my deck I deck.
Thespians Stage alone also won me games. But copying EoT Dryad Arbor and then swing with Jitte. And if you ever played against another DD deck you will know that copying their DD is very ridiculous :P
I actually got to do that last night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuhl
Made it on turn 4 of turns, and attacked with it on turn 5... but he remembered he had a Karakas in play :( Given the mana available, and turns left, it was the only conceivable route to victory, so I had to gamble that he wouldn't see it.
That's not true actually. I think I can count on my fingers the situations where marit lage DIDN'T save me on a losing position. After that, I see it as an evaluation of the situation, case by case. Sometimes you wasteland them. Sometimes you make the 20/20. I feel like people think that having stage/dd in your list automaticaly means you are leaning on it, when it's simply an option. Sometimes you go for it, other times you just waste them to stone age. sometimes I even fetch my stage and copy my wasteland, and keep them in stone age.Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
Also, untaping with knight is relative, as having knight alone on the board doesn't mean you have board control at all actually. Especially not in a world with pyromancers and TNNs and elves. What I can say tho, marit lage is a nice panic option, or a oups i win option (shockingly, sometimes you can just draw it too). It's just that it's not your main plan.
I used to be vocal about stage/dd, and say that it's horrible. after playing it for a few months on mtgo and in paper tournaments, I think i'm never playing without it. In fact, my only problem is trying to understand if I can fit 4 wastelands, craddle, stage and dd in the same list without terrible inconsistancy. And that's the frustrating part, I only own 3 wastelands online, I won't have time to have a good idea about that in time for NJ.
Congrats on your success with Maverick, good luck on GP. I like your list, and i play similar, but with few changes. I have 3 Teegs in my 75, and 2 Choke in my sb. Also I prefer Council Judgement over O-Ring, I think O-Ring is outclassed now by decay and Miracles playing Judgement mainboard. These 3 cards are key cards to beat miracles + 1 Cavern of Souls, if you want to beat Miracles consistenty play these cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by THerzog41
I also like to have 1-2 strong creatures sb to beat decks that board in GY hate to fight KotR. I play Linvala or Thrun.
Also I used to play 1 Fauna Shaman main. 5th Zenith is great, as is ability to find non-green creatures like Canonist.
E-tutor package anyone?? I've played this package a lot, currently on
2 e-tutor
1 engineered explosive
1 Garruck relentless
1 revoker
1 oring
1 path
1 zp
1 Stoney silence
1 cage
1 choke
1 mind break trap
1 dragon claw
1 e-plague
1 canonist
I don't have any GY hate because 2 ooze n 4 drs main. My list is basically herzogs with some edits. Any cards I'm missing or cards I should just cut?
I don't see the significance of some of those bullets. Namely 1x Mindbreak Trap. No offense, I can't see how that's going to save the day.
Why do you play Dragon's Claw and not Warmth?
Assuming you don't have a red spash and no counterspells, warmth should always be the better choice. Also it is harder to remove enchantments than artifacts for a lot of decks.
Especially for Red decks, which is the most important point.Quote:
Originally Posted by HungryMan
Red is good at killing artifacts, but has no way at all to kill enchantments.
This, plus the fact that Warmth is actually the more powerful effect. :cool:
The one thing I have to add right now is that I really do prefer Decay to Path in the sideboard. They're coming in during the same matches where you need extra removal, but vs. Delver decks you're effectively playing Path as a 2 mana spell already to avoid Daze. Path doesn't really have a major advantage there, but Decay is much more useful in other matchups where you want to hit something other than a creature.
Sadly I'm not headed to NJ, but if I were in the current meta I'd probably side something like:
3 Thoughtseize
2 Warmth
3 Zealous Persecution
1 Choke
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Abrupt Decay
I feel like that's a pretty good start, with some debate between ZP #3 and Tutor #2. Though I'm generally not a huge fan of Tutor-boards, right now it seems like enchantments are very strong (nothing in UR Delver or Burn handles them). It's mostly dead vs. fast combo, but that's a weakness of the archetype. If we can go first and lead Thoughtseize into Thalia, then storm and belcher are doable. Otherwise we'll just die on turn 0.