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I have been testing thoughtsieze main over hymn primarily for converted mana cost issues. I just like that distribution of one and two mana cards better. This is the same reason why I went to three abrupt decay main instead of four. Plus, I felt that targeted discard is sometime just better at getting that early removal spell to protect DRS, delver, or goyf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
Does anyone have any tech for the mirror/other delver decks like RUG and UWR?
creeping tar pit for the mirror.
Also I had a VERY hard time against Rest in Peace today. Turned of all my win cons except Delvers.
Anyway I played a 20man Wasteland event today and came 1st, going 4-1 in swiss (scooped last round to a friend who needed PWP since I was locked 1st seed) before winning out the top8. I've played this deck in 4 events now, winning 2 of them and Top4ing both the other. Currently a combined score of 16-3 in matches played (not including IDs and concessions). Playing a very stock list.
Figured I'd post an updated List since I had some time to spare today.
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tombstalker
1 Vendilion Clique
Instants & Sorceries
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Daze
4 Force
1 Dismember
Lands
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
Sideboard
4 Sinkhole
4 Spell Pierce
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Flex spots. Currently: 2 Submerge, 1 Darkblast
The flex spots are the only hard part for me; I'm thinking something to deal with tribal/creature decks/Jund. Thoughts?
This is my updated list:
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tombstalker
Instants & Sorceries
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Daze
3 Force
2 Thoughtseize
1 Dismember
Lands
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
Sideboard
4 Sinkhole
2 Flusterstorm
2 Disfigure
2 Golgari Charm
1 Divert
1 Go for the Throat
1 Life from the Loam
1 Jace Beleren
1 Krosan Grip
Worth noting my meta has no dredge or reanimator. If I was playing in a GP like event, I'd cut Divert and Golgari Charm for 2 Surgical Extraction
I personally don't like taking out the 4th FoW but that's a personal call. However if you were to take it out, the 4th should be on your sideboard. Losing to combo when you play TA is just.... well bad. Personally I was all pro for Divert but I thought it was kind of meh overall. I'm not quite sure why GftT is in here. Is this for Tombstalker or something? Personally I like the Jace Beleren and I think it's hilarious to play it against JTMS or have it out before they do; it really pisses people off. And it's quite good too.Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneColdEffy
What's in your meta? And yeah I would go with the Surgical Extractions but not before the 4th FoW.
Just wanted to say that I am finding Golgari Charm to be an awesome SB card for the Esper matchup.
I've been playing the following list the past 2 weeks:
1 Island
1 Forest
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
3 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Thoughtseize
3 Spell Pierce
1 Life From the Loam
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
4 Force of Will
1 Sylvan Library
Sideboard:
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Flusterstorm
1 Echoing Truth
2 Krosan Grip
4 Shardless Agent
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Surgical Extraction
Over the past 2 weeks, I'm currently 6-0-1 in rounds. The first week had a slightly different sideboard as I've been trying out different things. I originially started with Dan's GP list, but made changes to fit my playstyle. Mainly I don't care much for Daze without Stifle and I wanted to be more proactive in the games where I would be bringing in Sinkhole.
Week 1:
ANT: 2-0 Abrupt Decay played a major part of winning as I was able to Decay his LED in response to him casting another.
Esperblade: 2-0 Shardless Agent from the board allowed me to put more pressure on him while controlling his threats.
RiP/Helm: 1-1-1 So many Terminuses (Termini?) in game 3.
Week 2:
Manaless Dredge: 2-0
Mono Green Infect: 2-0
B/W Infinite Life + Scepter Chant: 2-0
Maverick: 2-1 Shardless made my clock much faster due to flipping Goyfs.
Regarding some of my choices:
2 Basics - I don't like being dead to non-basic hate. I originally had 1 of each but cut the Swamp week 2 and added the 4th Sea. I may cut it for the 4th Wasteland or another Fetchland.
Clique over Tombstalker - Tombstalker has the bigger body, but I like the flexibility of Clique.
Thrun - For the control match since their only out to it is Terminus (or Humility).
For reference, this is my current meta:
Manaless Dredge
RiP/Helm
Esperblade
Maverick
Spiral Tide (Feline unless she's playing something else)
Occassionally Burn, Infect and other misc decks.
Interesting adjustments. I haven't found any deck I'm comfortable with lately, although I'm leaning toward something like this for SGC Seattle next month since it has game against pretty much anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whippoorwill
Do you find this type of build threat light at all or are six 3 power fliers and 4 goyfs enough? I'd also like to read why you chose Shardless Agent for the board.
Yeah you're probably right about the 4th Force of Will. I added it back into the main, moving the Thoughtseize to the sideboard and cutting the Divert. I haven't tested Divert and I can see where it's sweet but I can also see how it might be bad. Spell Pierce will probably be a better choice. The Go for the Throat is in there as a card I wanted against BUG, Junk, Maverick and other big threat creature decks as another answer that could also deal with cards like Tombstalker. However I have cut it for Dismember now. The Jace Beleren is there for BUG Control and other Jace decks since Jace is obv a huge threat and Jace Beleren seemed to be the best answer I could come up with that was proactive instead of just an answer (like another counterspell).Quote:
Originally Posted by aznepyon7
Also Golgari Charm feels relatively unneeded and I can see one copy being swapped for a Submerge or another Thoughtseize
Preparing for my first legacy tournament in like 4 months. Thinking about playing good'ol bug delver. Expecting alot of combo and control with a small amount of jund/junk and random decks. Looking at taking the following list.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tombstalker
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Daze
4 Force
1 Dismember
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
Sideboard
4 Sinkhole
4 Spell Pierce
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Life from the Loam
2 Submerge
1 Darkblast
List is almost the same 75 as BarbedBlightnings. We are good friends and made the list together. Any ideas/comments would be helpful.
can someone explain submerge to me? submerge seems like a card rug should be playing when lightning bolt can't do the job. we have black and access to real removal, so whats the point exactly?
was going for a free spell in that slot. I was also thinking about adding in 2 Disfigures in place. Thoughts?
I think it's just personal preference, really. I think that having access to Black mana reduces the desire for Submerge, but I don't think you can really fault people for playing it. lambert's meta sounds fairly similar to mine (it's a small group of legacy players), but I think in my case there's enough potential for non-green beatdown decks that I would prefer a card like Disfigure in place of Submerge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus
@lambert101 - I really like the list BTW, I'm thinking that I may play something similar to that at my next local Legacy event. I like the 4 Spell Pierces, but have you thought about a split with Thoughtseize? I'm considering a 2-2 split in my SB, largely because there are some matchups where I like to have access to selective discard spells.
The list is solid. The spell pierce are for against combo so you have 12 counterspells for combo followed by hymns, surgicals, and cheap beat sticks. The only spot in my board I am not sold on are the 2 submerges. I need something for against the aggro decks namely Jund besides my wasteland/sinkhole/loam package.
@lambert
Why v clique ovee something like sylvan library??
Why not? It has positive interaction against combo and control, and acts as Delver 5. I've always won on the back of CliqueQuote:
Originally Posted by pingpong
Clique can mirror Thoughtseize where it makes all of your spells better and acts as a good mana-efficient clock otherwise. You could make an argument that is sucks to pass with your hand face up having 3 mana open but a lot of the time it doesn't matter either. It's also a great response to most planeswalker activations, something that this deck typically struggles with, or it can double as removal. Worst case situation, it comes in and you tell your opponent that they can keep what they have. How often is your opponent going to win those games?
Clique vs Library is dependent on what you expect to play against. If you expect to go long more often or you want more fluidity, library is the better choice. If you want a threat and disruption in the same card, clique is a great way to go.
Sorry for the late response.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Nilla Pac
I haven't really had any issues with the number of threats aside from the U/W Helm match I had where he had removal every time I had a threat on the board. I did end up changing the 4th Sea to a Creeping Tar Pit as an additional threat.
Agent was mainly because I wanted to be more proactive in the control matches. Instead of worrying about controlling my opponent's plays, I want to make them worry about mine. I was also trying it for the burn matchup due to the card advantage since that's one of the harder matchups I've faced.