[Primer/Deck] Pox

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Originally Posted by Quitrex

I agree that you want a 25th land, and that it should be a swamp. I'm not in agreement on not needing mana acceleration, but if you're considering drown yard temple, you want to at least consider mox diamond over rit. Personally I can't stand spinning darkness in this meta, i'd actually rather see contagion, murderous cut, or even disfigure/dismember in this meta, as darkness doesn't do a single thing to death rite shaman. Also, I don't care for trinisphere in the main, although it's perfectly fine in the board. the point of the nether void is to have an over the top, game ending effect, which trinisphere has noticeably more trouble being. I'd consider a second pox or a crucible in that slot, as either one can provide backbreaking advantages, while still being perfectly serviceable in the matches where they don't shine, unlike trinisphere, which actually has the capacity to hurt you more than it hurts them in half of the matches you're likely to face.
Slight change of pace, Who all is going to columbus this weekend?

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hmm, i wouldn't say the 24-land configuration is wrong, i've seen it work in some lists; but i personally feel more comfy with 25 or even 26..i run 26, with the 26th land being a maze of it and 3 rituals instead of the usual 4..

@ Quitrex
that is also the reason why i relegated the spinning darkness to the board(i still run 1 copy in my 75)..can't hit shaman, stryx, etc..i like a toxic deluge, a ratchet bomb, a murderous cut or a contagion(a very old favorite of mine) in its place instead..i'm not a fan of dismember in pox, i think i prefer disfigure or a smother over it, but thats just me..

i think adding multiple big poxes is actually very good right now, its good against miracles(helps keep them off 4 mana to cast jace and makes it difficult for them to cast entreat..) and eldrazi.......


on trinisphere:
-i board them against decks that like to cast brainstorm and ancestral visions..its surprisingly good against bug..
-it slows down burn, makes it hard for them to fireblast your face..
-and of course combo..
-i don't like it against decks that run vial like death and taxes and/or merfolk, etc...

I used contagion vs delver, but with the Eldrazi around Innocent Blood may be better.
That and slaughter pact.

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

I used contagion vs delver, but with the Eldrazi around Innocent Blood may be better.
That and slaughter pact.

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hmm, slaughter pact..interesting..
i recommend rituals to anyone who'd like to toy with it..

Yeah, you are right. It is castable too late to be of use.

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Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag

hmm, i wouldn't say the 24-land configuration is wrong, i've seen it work in some lists; but i personally feel more comfy with 25 or even 26..i run 26, with the 26th land being a maze of it and 3 rituals instead of the usual 4..

@ Quitrex
that is also the reason why i relegated the spinning darkness to the board(i still run 1 copy in my 75)..can't hit shaman, stryx, etc..i like a toxic deluge, a ratchet bomb, a murderous cut or a contagion(a very old favorite of mine) in its place instead..i'm not a fan of dismember in pox, i think i prefer disfigure or a smother over it, but thats just me..

i think adding multiple big poxes is actually very good right now, its good against miracles(helps keep them off 4 mana to cast jace and makes it difficult for them to cast entreat..) and eldrazi.......


on trinisphere:
-i board them against decks that like to cast brainstorm and ancestral visions..its surprisingly good against bug..
-it slows down burn, makes it hard for them to fireblast your face..
-and of course combo..
-i don't like it against decks that run vial like death and taxes and/or merfolk, etc...

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I think the best sideboard for the moment probably is engineered plague, since cavern of souls is getting a upswing and tribal strategies in general are getting bonuses, a great deal of decks get's randomly punished as well by the card and it has great value on everything from Merfolk, monks and pyromancer elemental tokens.

I run GB Pox so I don't run rituals, though I believe 28 lands and mana sources are correct including effect lands.

I played 7 matches on Cockatrice with the 5-0 league list posted a page or two back. I went 5-2 however a couple of my matches were against unoptimized lists, so take that with a grain of salt. I think Thoughtseize over Inquisition might be correct now barring a Burn heavy meta. Taking Jace, Ad Nauseum, Natural Order, and Batterskull felt really good. The life loss aspect never really affected the outcomes of the games either.

I think the Leyline + Helm combo in the board also feels good. I found myself sideboarding out my Nether Spirits and a Scroll or two to become more of a pure prison deck with a combo finish quite often. The Funeral Charms never killed a creature and were used purely as discard spells. Ob Nixilis proved to be a very powerful card and was only countered once in my matches. I had been using him as a singleton in my sideboard, but he might actually belong maindeck.

I'm still not a fan of not having first turn removal against two toughness creatures. Deathrite was stickier than I'd like and Stoneforge could have been a major problem without Thoughtseize. Ratchet Bomb never really did much aside from one game against a mono green Elves list. I think the list is strong and with a couple of tweaks could prove to be a nice alternative to the Reid Duke build.

First turn removal is probably better than first turn discard, generally speaking. I tend to die to bad board position rather than combo.
Of course, the list mentioned above can probably run both.

I currently only run a singleton innocent blood as turn 1 removal, though I run the full playset of my abrupt decays at 2 cmc + ofc smallpox.

incl 3 crop rotation and cabal pit this gives my deck

17 removal spells (13)

for discard
18 discard (inlc 3 entomb for raven's) (15)

and lands incl 2 non mana producing
28 lands (26)

what have people found to be an optimal distrubution for their builds?

About how much removal, discard and lands are people playing?


As stated above Hardcore has focus on hard removal, though I have trouble with having such cards at my local meta with quite a bit of storm and combo. Therefore, cutting down on removals and instead using nether spirit (entomb) as a way of dealing with the most aggressive decks and crop rotation to deal with smaller threats.


My latest succesful build of reference
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11331&d=264344&f=LE

List I'm registering at the gp in a couple hours

1 bayou
2 drownyard temple
1 dust bowl
1 Forest
1 marsh flats
4 Mishra's factory
3 swamp
4 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 wasteland

1 nether spirit

4 abrupt decay
1 chains of Mephistopheles
2 crucible of worlds
2 cursed scroll
1 grim tutor
4 hymn to tourach
4 Liliana of the veil
4 mox diamond
2 nether void
4 smallpox
1 the abyss
4 thoughtseize
1 warping wail

2 black sun's zenith
3 chalice of the void
2 ensnaring bridge
1 night of soul's betrayal
3 pithing needle
4 surgical extraction

With the possible change of turning the chains into either a second warping wail or a third chains

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quitrex

List I'm registering at the gp in a couple hours

1 bayou
2 drownyard temple
1 dust bowl
1 Forest
1 marsh flats
4 Mishra's factory
3 swamp
4 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 wasteland

1 nether spirit

4 abrupt decay
1 chains of Mephistopheles
2 crucible of worlds
2 cursed scroll
1 grim tutor
4 hymn to tourach
4 Liliana of the veil
4 mox diamond
2 nether void
4 smallpox
1 the abyss
4 thoughtseize
1 warping wail

2 black sun's zenith
3 chalice of the void
2 ensnaring bridge
1 night of soul's betrayal
3 pithing needle
4 surgical extraction

With the possible change of turning the chains into either a second warping wail or a third chains

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I'm not seeing verdant Catacombs on your list and you suggested making a chains be a 3rd chains. Make sure you go over your decklist carefully before registering. I am counting 2 possible decklist errors from your post.

I like the idea of more chains rather than a warping wail. I just don't think it does enough for us.

Just finished another match with the League list and it was awesome. Does anyone know how to post a Cockatrice replay? Game three was truly insane and I'd like to share it with you guys. :tongue:

Missed the verdantly there, but not on the decklist, meant cursed scroll.

Time for another stupid question.

Is Ratchet Bomb our only way to deal with Chalice of the Void? All the 1 drops in the deck (Thoughtseize, Innocent Blood, Funeral Charm, Cursed Scroll) will be dead cards if that thing gets dropped turn 1 off an Ancient Tomb or land + Petal.

You have a problem with Eldrazi?
Myself i run a deck that is practically immune to chalice since i only run two SDT and three shrieking affliction as my turn one drops. (Nothing important.)

That is one method. The best probably, because the other is to run ratchet bombs and powder kegs which doesn't kill the Eldrazi creatures.

I wasn't thinking Eldrazi specifically, just looking at all of the 1 drops and wondering what our outs would be. Things like t1 Chalice for 1 would kill a good portion of the deck.

I currently play burn (has issues with chalice), mono red sneak attack (plays chalice itself), and i am building this deck as well (current build only has ratchet bomb sb as anti chalice tech). I'm just trying to get an idea to the decks strengths and weaknesses.

Mono-black's only outs against resolved Chalices involve artifact nukes. Ratchet bombs and Powder Kegs vs. Enemy Pithing needles and Chalice of the Void are probably your best bet. Pox's biggest problems are nonland non creature permanents so the following will help deal with said issues:

Ratchet Bomb
Powder Keg
Plague Boiler (nukes planeswalkers and is all inclusive)
Culling Scales (Not a Jace killer sadly but with a Nether Spirit, very dangerous against low cmc slow decks)
Nevinyrral's Disk (4 mana for a super nuke that doesn't include walkers...)

Mono-B never could deal with enchantments or artifacts easily. This is the reason why Crucible and CounterBalance games are so annoying. At least with Crucibles, we have GY hate, but decks that solely win by playing the 'bad' permanents are a real issue. Enchantress, Aether Vial to a lesser degree come to mind.

Any other suggestions? Those of you who have G/B with Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse or the more rare B/W with Vindicate obviously have it easier. I like Dark Ritual and I'm cheap when it comes to dual lands. Only money card I'm saving for is Tabernacle.

Us resolving a counter to an opponents hate is effectively a timewalk for them. Against a fast deck like just Eldrazi it is a losing strategy. Since your whole deck is vulnerable you need to pay close attention to how your Meta develops. A total rebuild is in order if you start seeing two or more players including chalice in their main deck.

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Originally Posted by OmniStrata

Any other suggestions?

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I had successfully stalled the boardstate and used Liliana's ultimate to pick between all their lands or the moat or whatever it was that was stopping me from winning.
So not ideal, but there is that as well.

Gate to phyrexia is an option as well with nether spirit if you're really having issue with chalice and artifacts.

Ratchet bomb is just great against most of the format currently.

Is enchantress really that bad of a match up for you guys? In my experience we pretty keep them off mana and we easily answer their draw engine of Argothian enchantress with all of our non targeted removal. I have experienced enchantress as a positive match up

It is very rare and i can ignore it.