[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

I choose UB Stiflenought for the last Magic League 1.5 trial (finishing 2nd and losing to Bant: in G1 he casts his single Jace when I have no outs to it; G2 I have 6 cards in hand while he has 2, and Top on the battlefield, I cast Perish, but his 2 cards in hand are Spell Pierce, on Perish, and untap cast Jace-again as singleton, no additional copies in sb- GG) just to test it for a little tournament I'll have tomorrow. I know ML tests are not very reliable but I just wanted to give the deck a try.

Here's the list I was running: http://www.magic-league.com/deck/698...tml#Bant144364

I decided to bring Counterbalances only post sb, given the high amount of decks abusing Vials in my meta, and bring them in only for Combo and Burn. I also decided for full set of Snare because is pretty strong against GWB rock as Rico said, and my meta is pretty full of Rocks , Junk and so on.
3 Hurkyl's in sb for the rising amount of Affinity both on ML and IRL ( using the W splash too I'd cut these for Peacekeeper)

I choose not to run Standstill because of Vials (see Counterbalance above), so I added the 4th Confidant.
Tolaria West / Academy Ruins package is so good: TW can fetch Factories / Wasteland / A Ruins / EE / Tormod's Crypt, while Ruins paired with EE and Dreadnought seems pretty obvious.

@Rico: What are your thoughts regarding TW / AR instead of 2 Factories?

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Originally Posted by Solar Ice

Rico, what do you think of Propaganda replacing Plague in the board against creature decks in general? I'm running Rich Shay's list almost card for card (currently -1 Daze +1 StP) and it can be tough against fast aggro decks like Zoo as well as resolved creatures in general (with removal for Peacekeeper) assuming no Dreadnought on the table.

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One of the tradeoffs of playing Uwb is that we gain Peacekeeper and Perish, which are awesomely powerful, but we lose Firespout. Any match where we might have wanted creature control we can often achieve a stronger and more complete control suite by playing Peacekeeper/Perish instead of Firespout (ex: Elves, Merfolk, Affinity, etc), but there is one exception to this and that is Goblins where both Peacekeeper and Perish are weak and/or worthless.

At one point Goblins was very popular a few months ago, and E.Plague was used to stay Uwb while shoring up a weakness against a popular deck. E.Plague is a relatively narrow card and I probably wouldn't play it unless Goblins was really popular.

So it's difficult to directly compare E.Plague to Propaganda. That being said, I don't think Propaganda is all that good, because decks like Merfolk or Affinity or even Zoo can still kill you through it with celerity and ease.

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Originally Posted by kiblast

Tolaria West / Academy Ruins package is so good: TW can fetch Factories / Wasteland / A Ruins / EE / Tormod's Crypt, while Ruins paired with EE and Dreadnought seems pretty obvious.

@Rico: What are your thoughts regarding TW / AR instead of 2 Factories?

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Well, I don't think the deck can afford to cut any Factories if it is playing Standstill, and I've already expressed that I feel Standstill is quite good right now.

But even if Standstill were not present, I have trouble getting on board with Tolaria West. It's pretty terrible as a mana source, and if you are transmuting it then it seems Trinket Mage is a whole lot better in almost every possible way.

Also, everyone seems to want to cut Factory, but I don't get it. You did lose to Jace twice in a row in that match, and you know Factory is great at killing Jace, right? I'm just confused why people want to cut Factory - the card is really good.

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Originally Posted by Rico Suave

Well, I don't think the deck can afford to cut any Factories if it is playing Standstill, and I've already expressed that I feel Standstill is quite good right now.

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I was running only 2 Factories and so cutted Standstill. Of course if you are playing Standstill, the full set of Factories (and Wasteland) is mandatory. Standstill is not only good, it's awesome. Problem is that in my meta, in the last tournament, I faced 3/ out of 6 decks playing Vials. If the meta lets you do it, play Standstill, but when I know that I'll be facing a good number of decks packing Vial, I don't know if I still want it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rico Suave

But even if Standstill were not present, I have trouble getting on board with Tolaria West. It's pretty terrible as a mana source, and if you are transmuting it then it seems Trinket Mage is a whole lot better in almost every possible way.

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Trinket is counterable, whereas TW is not. And the ability to fetch a Wasteland or an Academy Ruins is so gamebreaking sometimes.But I see your point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rico Suave

Also, everyone seems to want to cut Factory, but I don't get it. You did lose to Jace twice in a row in that match, and you know Factory is great at killing Jace, right? I'm just confused why people want to cut Factory - the card is really good.

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I know, as an UWx/Landeed player I know Factories are good :D. I'll test a 4 Mishra's Factory version soon, as I'd like to have a side plan when Stifle Nought is not possible; Mishra's + Jace + critters seems the best viable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rico Suave

At one point Goblins was very popular a few months ago, and E.Plague was used to stay Uwb while shoring up a weakness against a popular deck. E.Plague is a relatively narrow card and I probably wouldn't play it unless Goblins was really popular.

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What would you replace Plague with? I'm currently trying Meddling Mage, though I can't comment yet about its effectiveness. It does hit relevant stuff like GSZ, Pridemage and Grip. Not to mention it's an additional beating against combo (not like we really need it :P).

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Originally Posted by Solar Ice

What would you replace Plague with? I'm currently trying Meddling Mage, though I can't comment yet about its effectiveness. It does hit relevant stuff like GSZ, Pridemage and Grip. Not to mention it's an additional beating against combo (not like we really need it :P).

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I do know that I'll probably want to play 3 StP somewhere in the deck, and whatever copies are not maindeck will likely end up in the SB.

If you're playing StP in the main, you might just consider playing some measures in the SB which cover other matches. A singleton Mindbreak Trap might be good, a sprinkling of Duress/Thoughtseize might provide a tremendous edge against combo, and I'd probably lean towards an extra copy of some kind of graveyard hate. I'm not sure about playing 1-2 Pithing Needle between main/board right now, but that's a strong option.

Past that? The best thing you could do is take a list of common/expected archetypes, come up with a tentative boarding plan for stock lists of each deck on that list, then ask yourself if your SB'ing is smooth and fluid. This helps avoid the problem where you have tons of cards for match X, but you end up not even using them all because you've got like 65 amazing cards for that match and can't even fit them all in. This might end up resulting in having only 55 good cards for match Y, and in these situations you get a lot more value out of switching some of your SB cards to cards that help match Y - even if it's already a good match.

Here is a list that I was testing yesterday. I wanted to get some feedback and suggestions that might improve this list. I do agree that the standstills are necessary. The enlightened tutors over trinket mages have been awesome.

4 brainstorm
4 force of will
3 dreadnought
3 counterbalance
2 sdt
3 dark confidant
1 EE
3 standstill*
4 stifle
1 illusionary mask
2 jace*
3 swords
1 crucible
1 pithing needle
2 enlightened tutor
2 snare

2 underground
3 tundra
4 flooded*
2 island
4 wasteland
2 polluted
4 mishra

1 crypt
1 etherstorn cannonist
1 relic of progenitus
1 null rod
1 engineered plague
3 perish
3 peacekeeper
3 spell pierce
1 plains*

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Originally Posted by Scrum

1 illusionary mask

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I'd play Trickbind instead.

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Originally Posted by kiblast

I'd play Trickbind instead.

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I knew you would say that, lol. I don't think that trickbind is bad at all. I like to be able to tutor for either piece of the dreadnought combo with the enlightened tutors. Thanks for the feedback.

Does anyone else have any suggestions or ideas?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kiblast

I choose UB Stiflenought for the last Magic League 1.5 trial (finishing 2nd and losing to Bant: in G1 he casts his single Jace when I have no outs to it; G2 I have 6 cards in hand while he has 2, and Top on the battlefield, I cast Perish, but his 2 cards in hand are Spell Pierce, on Perish, and untap cast Jace-again as singleton, no additional copies in sb- GG) just to test it for a little tournament I'll have tomorrow. I know ML tests are not very reliable but I just wanted to give the deck a try.

Here's the list I was running: http://www.magic-league.com/deck/698...tml#Bant144364

I decided to bring Counterbalances only post sb, given the high amount of decks abusing Vials in my meta, and bring them in only for Combo and Burn. I also decided for full set of Snare because is pretty strong against GWB rock as Rico said, and my meta is pretty full of Rocks , Junk and so on.
3 Hurkyl's in sb for the rising amount of Affinity both on ML and IRL ( using the W splash too I'd cut these for Peacekeeper)

I choose not to run Standstill because of Vials (see Counterbalance above), so I added the 4th Confidant.
Tolaria West / Academy Ruins package is so good: TW can fetch Factories / Wasteland / A Ruins / EE / Tormod's Crypt, while Ruins paired with EE and Dreadnought seems pretty obvious.

@Rico: What are your thoughts regarding TW / AR instead of 2 Factories?

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Once you cut Standstill the factories go, your manabase becomes more solid, and you can run StP more easily. I made this realization when survival was on it's way out and Merfolk was very popular. I think you want Counterbalance over spellsnare as a better way to protect your Nought and ensuring you have a solid "control" plan should you not draw aggro. I think this is more important once you cut Standstill. This also frees up your board as your maindeck has the edge against combo & control. Oh, btw Toleria West is garbage.

1 Pithing Needle
3 Spell Snare/Counterbalance
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Daze
1 Trickbind
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Stifle
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Trinket Mage
4 Dark Confidant
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Swords to Plowshares

3 Island
1 Swamp
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta

SB:
1 Plains
3 Peacekeeper
3 Perish
3 Extirpate
1 Crypt
1 EE
3 EPlague/Spell Pierce/xx

Hello everyone,

Long-time lurker, first time poster! Here's my report for our monthly Legacy tourney, all the way over here in sunny Singapore. We usually have between 16-20 players, topping out at 25 last month when some of our Filipino friends showed up. This time round, the tourney clashed with a sealed GPT at another venue, so we had quite a small pool of players.

I apologize in advance if any of the references may be culturally-dependent; I wrote this report for our local card game forum, and haven't taken the time to make the International edition just yet. :tongue:

Sick of playing a slow, piddling deck and always missing out on lunch, and not brave enough to sleeve up a Legacy take on a Standard deck again (like I did the month before), I decided to play a combination of my favorite cards in the format. In truth, the name Dreadstill is a misnomer; the deck is more of a Dark Confidant deck than anything.

This is what I SUITED UP with:

Bob-Go

4 Dark Confidant
3 Trinket Mage
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Standstill
1 Daze
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives

4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
3 Island

Side
4 Peacekeeper
1 Sword to Plowshares
3 Perish
3 Spell Pierce
1 Counterbalance
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Plains

Round 1: Ruizhi w/ Permanent Waves

So sometime during the week, amidst our playtesting (read: constant, abject but loving mutilation), Ruizhi and I had decided that the match-up was horrible (read: unwinnable even with the Dreadstill pilot asleep) for Waves G1, given the way Dreadstill was set up, and in particular given my love for all that is Dark Confidant. One session involved me keeping the loosest hands in the world, hands that even Paris Hilton would be considered a prude in comparison to. Alongside Counterbalance, Stifle, Force of Will and a miser’s Daze, The Great One made Meditate an unwise, at times even suicidal, spell to play.

I joked that 1) we’d play in the first round, that 2) I’d get stuck with 3 Swords at all times, and 3) just get overrun by him. I was at least a third right. Round one pairings go up, and I hear this familiar voice behind me going “Chuiiiii” (in our local dialect, this roughly translates to "arghghghghhhhh").

Game 1:

I keep a hand of 4 lands, a Brainstorm, a Stifle and a kick-in-the-nuts-for-Waves (KITNW, or more commonly Counterbalance/CB/*audible groan*). Turn 2 I draw Bob, and we’re off to the races! I run KITNW out there, more naked than the statue of David, hoping that the enormous number of games we tested, and the key role that KITNW played in all of them would have Ruizhi believe I’d a second copy.

If he has Meditate then, he’d be likely to Force since he can then tank me and set up, with one KITNW now out of the way. However, Meditate is almost blanked entirely by the presence of Bob, made worse by his accomplice, the Mishra’s Factory Worker. He untaps into Meditate mana, frowns at Bob, and I leverage that position into a desperation Candelabra untap that gets Stifle’d.

Sideboard: (Out) -3 Swords to do Nothing, -1 Engineered Never Gets Candelabras (In) +3 Spell Pierce, +1 KITNW

Game 2

I keep a Bob, Pierce, Brainstorm, Jace, Stifle hand. My Bob gets Forced, we fiddle around for a bit. Ruizhi has become very adept at playing the post-board game, so I play this a little bit safer, keeping Pierce mana up. I find a Top, stick it and dig for a KITNW. I eventually stick a KITWN with Pierce backup and Ruizhi on 5 lands. I figure that if he has the Force, Pact hand, I’m at least safe to untap into the Jace and look for my own protection. If he doesn’t keep KITWN off the table, then he has blanks (in terms of going off) against my soft-lock, or he has land-Spiral as a reset. He goes for the latter, and I show him the miser’s Daze. He attempts to rebuild, but I leverage Top and Jace into Bob and some blue-collared friends. I flash him my hand of 3 Forces and 2 Pierces, and he packs it up.

Chuiiiii!

Round 2: Thanapatt Thanchitt, or “Pat” w/ Tezzeret Affinity

I sit down opposite “Pat”, who immediately strikes me as being friendly and pretty chatty. We exchange stories about our respective stays in Australia, and a little bit about the whole pimpin’/foil cards thing. All this while, I’ve no idea what he’s playing, so I figure I’ll look to keep a hand that’s good against ‘Folk. If I can beat ‘Folk, I can beat anything, right (judging by my past performances)?

Game 1:

I fan open a hand of Wasteland, Wasteland, Island, Stifle, Force, Brainstorm and Trinket Mage. Seems decent against ‘Folk (you can see this is a recurring theme)! He opens on Seat of the Synod and Mox Opal, and snap passes. This surprises me somewhat; why would you lay an inactive Opal on turn 1? Maybe he had me on some kind of Chalice deck. I smell blood in the water and waste his Seat of the Synod, maintaining the illusion of MUDness on my part. He plays Vault of Whispers and passes back. I waste again. He draws, grimaces and says done. I stick a Standstill, have to explain the Japanese text to him (serves me right) and draw a bunch of cards off it. Somewhere along the way, Big Boy makes it into play and rumbles for the win. Pat plays out Frogmites in an attempt to put speed bumps in the path of Big Boy, but like Sandra Bullock, my Dreadnought keeps on truckin’

Sideboard: (Out) –2 Dreadnought, -3 Counterbalance, -2 Standstill (In) +4 Peacekeeper, +1 Swords to Plowshares, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Plains

I was extremely tempted to bring in the Pierces to combat Tezzeret, since his only way of meaningfully interacting with me post-Peacekeeper would be Tezz’s ultimate, but I decide to leave that to Force of Will, so as not to dilute the deck. I keep one Big Boy in, just in case I need an emergency blocker, or need to suicide a Bob in play once I’ve a spare Peacekeeper in hand.

Game 2:

I very quickly mull a hand of blue spells and a single Island, since I can’t afford to miss a beat against this deck. I’m rewarded with a grip of 4 lands, a Brainstorm and a Peacekeeper. The Brainstorm is ace, as it lets me hide Peacekeeper from a Thoughtseize, as well as filter away some of the excess lands, should I continue to brick on my draws (which I did). I need to tattoo “4 Brainstorm” into my arm and just submit my decklists with my arm alongside it (OK, maybe “4 Force of Will, 3 Sensei’s Divining Top” too); the card is batshit-insane. Pat leads off with Pithing Needle on Jace, and assembles some nasty robots that attempt to tear off my face. I Brainstorm, tuck Peacekeeper safely away, and Swords an Enforcer to keep my life total high, in the event that I draw Bob. I stick Peacekeeper, and the game slows to a halt. Pat, however, resolves a Tezzeret that my land-filled hand has no answer to. I do, however, have a Stifle, and profit when Pat decides to go all-in the turn after Tezzeret hits play, Stifling the huge-ass drain.

Pat, however (this is a trend), rips and sticks another Tezzeret shortly after. I have yet another Stifle, but Pat skillfully reads me for it, despite my best Meryl Streep impersonation. He goes up to 5 loyalty, and threatens to zap zap me the following turn. All this time, I’ve a Trinket Mage spinning around like Kylie Minogue on the top of my deck (thanks to Top), but am hesitant to grab it for Needle. I decide on my line of play, grab the Minogue Mage, and play Needle on Tezzeret. I play out another Trinket Mage (much less spinning required) and grab Engineered Explosives, planning to then find the last Needle (or Mage) in my deck, resetting the Needle situation, unlocking my Jace and replaying my second copy to lock out the now very lethal Tezzeret. I explain this line of play to my opponent, who I put on being a carbon copy of Blake McKracken’s list from one of the SCG Opens, and he nods in concession.

Round 3: Kelvin Ho w/ Permanent Waves

I’m permanently hungry, so we permanently ID and permanently head out for lunch with Kaiser from the other not-so-permanent bracket.

Round 4: Albert Fu w/ Team America

You may remember Albert (at least I do) from our slight disagreement over Tarmogoyf and player responsibility. This time, we meet much more amicably, with me offering him the ID as another friend of mine is coming by to trade and play some EDH.

Top 8: Kelvin Ho w/ Permanent Waves

Kelvin is a local Legacy ringer, and a fellow Japanese card aficionado, so it’s always cool to play against him. We get along pretty well, so the game is casual, though technically sound. Several times throughout the game, he tries to convince me to sell him my Bobs. Bad Kelvin, bad!

Game 1:

I stick a KITNW with Force backup, though I’m not forced (hur hur hur) to use it. He attempts a Merchant Scroll the following turn, and I blindflip a Dark Confidant. I play Confidant, and the game goes (rapidly) downhill from that point on.

Sideboard: (Out) -3 Swords to do Nothing, -1 Engineered Never Gets Candelabras (In) +3 Spell Pierce, +1 KITNW

Game 2:

I quickly assemble Bob and Counterbalance, stick a soft-lock with Jace and begin amassing counterspells. The game hinges on a cunning (more Magic puns!) series of plays on Kelvin’s part. He casts a Turnabout that seems like bait for a Force, and I’m holding Force x2, Stifle, Trinket Mage. I also have the top of my deck set to 1 already, having stuck a Jace and Brainstorm’d gratuitously. I figure that if he goes for the same plan as Ruizhi in our rd 1 game, of land-Spiral, he has to run it out with no High Tides active. If he has Force in hand, then I can let the Turnabout stick, and just double force my way to glory. However, if he has double Pact in hand, I don’t have a land on top of my deck to Counterbalance them with, which leaves me even colder post-Spiral, since I no longer have Pierces/Brainstorms as outs and Stifles as pseudo-outs. I pay cash to counter it anyway, figuring it leaves me in the best position in the event of a worst-case scenario. If he Pacts this Force, he has to spend next turn paying for the upkeep cost. If he sandbags them to resolve the Spiral, I still have 1 mana up to interact.

Kelvin does indeed have Pact and Spiral, so we shuffle up and deal! I mise a hand of Brainstorm, Stifle, Pierce, Top (thus assembling the soft-lock if and when I get my turn back) and lands. He attempts a Chain of Vapor on my Counterbalance, I Brainstorm in response. He attempts an Intuition, I blindflip a Force of Will, now invalidating any countermagic on his part (assuming he brought in 2-pac only) and he fizzles. A couple of turns of insane countermagic later, Kelvin attempts to Spiral again with an island and a Scalding Tarn untapped. I Pierce, he goes for the fetch, and I Stifle. Kelvin gives me a “you still had all those?!”-look, and dies a turn later to Bob and his blue-collar buddy.


Top 4: Albert Fu w/ Team America

We split the top 4, and I get to trade with my buddy Jay and have dinner with Ruizhi (chuiiiii) and Ivan, who made the trip all the way down here from Malaysia!

Props

Angus, for running these tournaments despite the losses he potentially incurs every month.
Ruizhi, for running the Waves deck against me all week.


Slops

Joel, for not showing up with ANT. I don’t know what you’re talking about, I never had to miss tournaments to finish my papers in university!
Ruizhi, for not beating Zoo in the Top 8 :tongue:

I really enjoyed reading that report! :)

-Matt

Really a nice first post! Welcome to the source!

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Originally Posted by SMR0079

Once you cut Standstill the factories go, your manabase becomes more solid, and you can run StP more easily. I made this realization when survival was on it's way out and Merfolk was very popular. I think you want Counterbalance over spellsnare as a better way to protect your Nought and ensuring you have a solid "control" plan should you not draw aggro. I think this is more important once you cut Standstill. This also frees up your board as your maindeck has the edge against combo & control. Oh, btw Toleria West is garbage.

1 Pithing Needle
3 Spell Snare/Counterbalance
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Daze
1 Trickbind
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Stifle
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Trinket Mage
4 Dark Confidant
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Swords to Plowshares

3 Island
1 Swamp
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta

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How are you exactly supposed to Stp opponent's creatures with that manabase?
My meta is pretty much fast aggro, aggro control and Vial aggro, and very few control and combo. Tell me what can Countertop engine do against those decks. In this kind of meta, Spell Snare is strictly superior.
I recognize the fact that most of the time Tolaria West sits unused in hand or becomes only a non Waste proof island, but it gives me the opportunity to set an EE lock by searching Academy Ruins and not to deck myself. Last tournament I attended, if I had Academy Ruins and EE soft lock I would have win 3rd round against Bant Tempo (and reached top4). Instead I decked myself and was unable to win under the attacks of 2cc and 3cc beaters.

Good report. Very entertaining!

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Originally Posted by kiblast

How are you exactly supposed to Stp opponent's creatures with that manabase?
My meta is pretty much fast aggro, aggro control and Vial aggro, and very few control and combo. Tell me what can Countertop engine do against those decks. In this kind of meta, Spell Snare is strictly superior.
I recognize the fact that most of the time Tolaria West sits unused in hand or becomes only a non Waste proof island, but it gives me the opportunity to set an EE lock by searching Academy Ruins and not to deck myself. Last tournament I attended, if I had Academy Ruins and EE soft lock I would have win 3rd round against Bant Tempo (and reached top4). Instead I decked myself and was unable to win under the attacks of 2cc and 3cc beaters.

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My bad on the manabase, just check Rico's post.

Spell Snare is great, maybe even better for your meta, but Coutertop is better in a developed metagame where it is both superier at protecting Dreadnought and enables it's own control strategy. That being said, if I Was playing Merfok & Goblins all day I would board it as well...actually I would just play a different deck.

I think your last experience against Bant is leading you to arrive at poor conclusions on the merits of Toleria West and Academy Ruins. The latter can be a solid card in 2 color StifleNought, but Toleria West is not what you want to be spending your resources on.

Hello, I've been reading this topic for a long time, as I really like this deck and how it plays, but I'm not sure if it is a good choice for my metagame. For reference, the last big tournament meta was as follows:


Merfolk: 8
GWB Rock: 6
Goblins: 6
Countertop RUG: 4
Zoo: 4
Enchantress: 3
Mono Black: 2
NO Bant: 2
2 Land Belcher: 2
Sneak and Tell: 2
Dredge: 2
Elves: 1
Affinity: 1
Welder Red: 1
Mono Red Burn: 1
New Horizons: 1
WW: 1
Rogue: 1
GW Aggro: 1
Mono Green Aggro: 1
Thopter Sword: 1
Eva Green: 1
Landstill: 1
High Tide: 1
Team America: 1

I would really appreciate any input you could give me on playing this deck in that meta, if it is worth building, or if I'm better off with something else.

Thanks!

Wow, you've got a lot of Rock in your meta. Where do you live so I can teach them the ways of the Force?

Not sure if this deck is so hot against Folk, Rock, and Goblins. Those are our toughest matchups, aren't they?

-Matt

I didn't have so many problems vs. Folk actually (I have to admit I go lucky with many draws, sticking early noughts many times), although Goblins was certainly tough post board (not so much preboard).

I live in Argentina, you could teach them, the plane ticket is a little pricey though :P

Quote:

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Torpor Orb
Artifact - 2

Creatures entering the battlefield don’t cause abilities to trigger.

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How's this? We can then focus our stifles for other purposes (stifling opponent's permanents i.e. fetchlands but also have it as a backup when Torpor doesn't stay on the board)

Also hurts decks (namely goblins) that have creatures that have come into play abilities.

Where's that from?

-Matt