I've seen lists playing Smokestack. How do we effectively play that card? Do we typically have enough permanents in play to let it sit around with a few counters on it?
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I've seen lists playing Smokestack. How do we effectively play that card? Do we typically have enough permanents in play to let it sit around with a few counters on it?
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Staxbuilds often run Goblin Welder, Tangle Wire and Crucible of Worlds in conjuction to most of the "other" usual suspects. You could choose to not run Chalice and go with Voltaic Key and Sensei's Divining Top next to Daretti.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch253
But also the UB Tezzeret Super Stax ran it along with Jace and The Abyss. Also seen with Braids, Cabal Minion.
Anyway, i am not sure if we want to be doing thus over Cloudpost and Ugin.
Edit: and dont forget about white stax aka Dutch Stax...
Nowadays its hard not to gain an advantage from Smokestack. The problem is that it takes 4 mana and a turn before it does anything. Smokestack becomes incrementally better the longer it stays in play because all the easy sacrifices are made first. You essentially win with Smokestack when the difficult choices have to be made. Therefore, you don't even need to combine it with Crucible of Worlds, or more obscure cards like Flagstones of Trokair, Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai, or Prototype Portal. The permanent density is already high enough to feed Smokestack. This is why I've recently become more and more interested in the Braids build. I can see a deck do well that can land a turn 2 Braids and stick it next to an early Ophinomancer, Bitterblossom or Crucible of Worlds. Last tournament I played with I did manage to lock out several games with Smokestack, so for all the times he's dead in your hand, you can also steal some games.
Vryn Wingmare - 2W
Creature - Pegasus
Flying
Non-creature spells cost 1 more to cast .
2 / 1
this is from MTG origins. I like the idea of playing a 3-drop , but I don't think this is powerful enough. A symmetrical drawback should have pushed this card to being more than a 2 / 1 . Cutting cloudposts mana to play this without draw spells is also rough . At least red gave you Welder and access to Faithless Looting .
Maybe a MUD list playing Scroll Rack and Land Tax will be competitive
Another interesting development:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=86701
He uses several lifegain effects to draw with well of lost dreams.
If Glowrider didn't see play, I don't see how this will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll_ov_Grimness
I've been trying to playtest it in MTGO but haven't managed to get the Well in play yet .Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverflame
I cut Staff Of Domination, Thousand-Year Elixir, Spine Of Ish Sah, 1 City of Traitors, and 1 Trinisphere, for 3 more lands and a Coercive Portal though . Otherwise it's the same list . And I took out Cavern and replaced them with Wastelands and Blasted Landscape ... I still think Blasted Landscape is really good.
I think you missed the point on that build. You need extra mana to pay for the well, hence no wastelands or landscape. You need to gain life, so 4 wurmcoils with cavern.Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll_ov_Grimness
The spine is meant to be sacced with trading post ,netting you a card and reusing it for a soft lock.
Staff and elixir are 1-ofs for the I win button, since you lose tempo to set up the shenanigans.
Hi there,
I've been looking for a sideboard guide for MUD but can't seem to find one. Since many high-performing lists are starting to look very much alike, I thought it would be a good idea to look at sideboarding from that perspective. So I made a list, also to save on time during tournaments.
The current list I'm playing:
(which I'm bringing to GP Lille btw)
//Main 60 cards:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
4 Grim Monolith
4 Metalworker
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Angel
1 Blightsteel Colossus
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Karn Liberated
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Staff of Domination
2 Coercive Portal
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
//Side 15 cards:
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Trinisphere
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Wasteland
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Batterskull
Sideboard
IN
OUT
Patriot delver
1x Wasteland, 1x Crucible, 2x Phyrexian Revoker, 1x Ratchet Bomb
3x Grim Monolith, 1x Karn Liberated, 1x Spine of Ish Sah
Shardless BUG
1x Ratchet Bomb, 1x Ugin, 1x Wasteland, 1x Crucible, 2x Revoker, 1x Needle
4x Chalice, 2x Grim Monolith, 1x Platinum Angel
Sneak & Show
2x Revoker, 1x Needle, 3x Thorn, 1x Bridge
2x Ugin, 2x Coercive Portal, 1x Platinum Angel, 1x Sundering Titan, 1x Trini
Storm
1x Trinisphere, 1x Ratchet, 1x Revoker, 3x Thorn
1x Karn, 1x Sundering Titan, 2x Coercive Portal, 2x Ugin
Elves
1x Ratchet Bomb, 2x Revoker, 1x Batterskull, 1x Needle, 1x Bridge,1x Ugin
2x Grim Monolith, 2x Coercive Portal, 1x Karn, 1x Sundering Titan, 1x Spine
Goblins
2x Revoker, 1x Ratchet Bomb, 1x Batterskull, 1x Ugin, 1x Crucible
3x Trinisphere, 1x Karn, 1x Sundering, 1x Chalice
Death & Taxes
2x Revoker, 1x Ratchet Bomb, 1x Needle, 1x Wasteland, 1x Crucible, 1x Batterskull
3x Trinisphere, 1x Grim Monolith, 1x Sundering Titan, 1x Platinum, 1x Karn
Dredge
2x Tormod's Crypt, 1x Trinisphere, 1x Ratchet Bomb, 1x Batterskull, 2x Revoker
1x Karn, 2x Coercive Portal, 2x Ugin, 1x Sundering, 1x Spine
Burn
1x Trinisphere, 2x Revoker, 1x Batterskull, 3x Thorn, 1x Ratchet Bomb
1x Karn, 2x Ugin, 1x Karn, 1x Sundering, 1x Spine, 2x Coercive Portal
Pox
2x Revoker, 1x Ratchet Bomb, 1x Needle, 1x Batterskull, 1x Wasteland, 1x Crucible
3x Trinisphere, 1x Sundering, 1x Platinum, 1x Spine, 1x Grim
Affinity
1x Ratchet Bomb, 1x Batterskull, 2x Revoker, 1x Needle
4x Lodestone Golem, 1x Sundering
High Tide
1x Trinisphere, 3x Thorn, 2x Revoker
2x Ugin, 1x Spine, 1x Sundering, 2x Coercive Portal
MUD
2x Revoker, 1x Ratchet, 1x Wasteland, 1x Crucible, 1x Needle, 1x Bridge, 1x Batterskull
4x Chalice, 3x Trinisphere, 1x Sundering
Miracles
1x Needle, 1x Batterskull, 1x Ugin, 1x Ratchet
1x Platinum, 2x Grim, 1x Spine
Reanimator
2x Tormod's Crypt, 2x Revoker, 1x Bridge
2x Coercive Portal, 1x Platinum, 2x Ugin
Bant
1x Ratchet Bomb, 1x Ugin, 1x Wasteland, 1x Crucible, 2x Revoker, 1x Needle
3x Trinisphere, 2x Grim, 1x Karn, 1x Platinum
Punishing Jund
1x Crucible, 1x Wasteland, 1x Needle
1x Platinum Angel, 1x Spine, 1x Cavern of Souls
Merfolk
1x Batterskull, 1x Ratchet Bomb, 1x Ugin, 2x Revoker
3x Trinisphere, 1x Karn, 1x Sundering
Stoneblade
1x Ratchet Bomb, 1x Wasteland, 1x Crucible
1x Grim Monolith, 1x Trinisphere, 1x Platinum
RUG Delver
1x Ratchet Bomb, 1x Crucible, 1x Ugin, 1x Batterskull
2x Coercive Portal, 1x Lodestone, 1x Karn
Maverick
2x Revoker, 1x Ratchet Bomb, 1x Needle, 1x Wasteland, 1x Crucible, 1x Batterskull
2x Grim Monolith, 3x Trinisphere, 1x Karn, 1x Platinum Angel
NicFit
2x Revoker, 1x Batterskull, 1x Wasteland, 1x Ugin
2x Grim, 1x Platinum, 1x Spine, 1x Cavern of Souls
Painter
2x Revoker, 1x Ratchet Bomb, 1x Needle, 1x Ugin, 1x Wasteland
1x Platinum, 3x Trini, 1x Sundering, 1x Vesuva
12post
2x Revoker, 1x Batterskull, 1x Wasteland,1x Crucible, 1x Bridge, 1x Needle
3x Trinisphere, 1x Platinum, 1x Sundering, 2x Ugin
UR Delver
1x Ratchet Bomb, 1x Ugin, 1x Batterskull, 1x Trinisphere, 3x Thorn
1x Karn, 4x Lodestone, 1x Coercive, 1x Spine
Grixis Delver
2x Revoker, 1x Trinisphere, 1x Ugin, 1x Ratchet Bomb
1x Karn, 4x Lodestone
Grixis Control
1x Needle, 2x Revoker, 1x Ugin, 1x Ratchet, 1x Wasteland, 1x Crucible
1x Platinum, 4x Lodestone, 2x Grim
Infect
1x Needle, 1x Ratchet, 1x Wasteland, 1x Crucible, 1x Trini, 2x Thorn
2x Coercive Portal, 2x Ugin, 2x Wurmcoil, 1x Vesuva
Lands
1x Needle, 1x Wasteland, 1x Crucible, 1x Bridge, 2x Tormod's Crypt
3x Trinisphere, 2x Ugin, 1x Coercive Portal
Omnishow
3x Thorn, 1x Bridge, 1x Trini
1x Platinum, 2x Coercive Portal, 2x Ugin
I'm sorry for the long post. Any (constructive) criticism is welcome! :smile:
Great sideboarding guide, thanks! Pithing Needle seems to missing from the sideboard though.
How does this deck get by with only 21 lands?Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverflame
The lack of Ugin/Karn is also interesting...
Thanks, Pithing Needle replaces Spine of Ish Sah in the sideboard, forgot to change that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Avez
Great idea, ser. I will be playing MUD aswell during the GP. Wanna meet up there with other MUD players?Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwave
I have scanned the boarding strategies and have a few comments. I'll be trying to be positive and constructive.
you have some matchups where you put in Crucible + Wasteland nr 4 but take out a number of Trinispheres. I would say that this is a weird move since with Trinesphere you can often lock them out of the game. Like Shardless, POX (yes POX plays loam, but it can still lock them out/slows them), Bant (cleanup basics with Sunderig Titan) and Stoneblade.
Also against Sneak you don't bring in Spine nr 2 and take out Platinum Angel?
Batterskull against Elves?
What are the Revokers for against Dredge? LED on the play? Does that happen often enough? And why you take out Ugin vs Dredge? It sweeps the board of zombies and big Golgari Grave-Troll. Also it provides a wincon when the board is stalled under a Trinisphere and blockers from both sides.
Last, but not least. Boarding out Forgemaster package can be great against RUG- and UWR Delver to dodge Stifle. They basicly got a dead card on which they count iot prevent getting zapped by Colossus. MUD has a very solid midgame vs those decks and playing it controllish forces them into Midgame. Ugin is also very strong here.
Seems like a good idea. Thanks for the comments, I'll make changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Some remarks:
- Crucible+Wasteland package can be offensive to break the opponent (+Trini) or defensive. In the latter case Trini can be hurting myself as well and I don't want it to backfire. Pox has Smallpox, Sinkhole and a full set of Wastelands. Yes of course I can lock him, but the opposite can be true as well. I don't like to take that risk. Same goes for Bant with Reliq, it can be very dangerous, especially after mulling. Shardless has a lot of 3+ cards already so I guess Trini doesn't hurt them that much. Against Stoneblade I should keep it in, I'll change that for a Grim monolith.
- There is no Spine in the sideboard, it should have been Pithing Needle (my bad). Otherwise I would have put it in for sure. I took out Platinum Angel because it seems useless. Emrakul will eat it alive.
- Batterskull against Elves isn't the best, but it's a decent beater at least. What else to put in? Keep one more Grim monolith in? I'm not sure.
- Revoker can stay in the sideboard against Dredge, you're right. I'll keep the two Ugin's in.
I'm going to test the Delver matchups without Forgemaster package, maybe it's better indeed.
Id' like to add that trinisphere is useful against shardless because of fow and the opponent would have to pay 3 for the cascade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwave
Usually S&S players won't cast show and tell on g2-3 because we also have game ending permanents, so Spine gets less useful.
Elves can combo faster than us, so it's always useful to have ratchet bombs, silent arbiter and bridge to hold while we try to combo.
I didn't brew this deck, but I tested it a bit. The main thing is getting some cloudposts online, specially with vesuva. The lifegain works as timewalks so you can set your board. I had a match against BUG where I got about 38 life from lands (cloudpost, cloudpost, glimmerpost, glimmerpost, vesuva copying glimmerpost, etc) Sure, you will suffer if the opponent landlock you in the first turns, but you can still combo off city/tomb + into monolith into metalworker with greaves or elixir on the field. Overall I didn't few the need for extra lands, except against Lands, as there is no pithing needle on the SB.Quote:
Originally Posted by keys
SB also have a few tricks. If you managed to do some gy shenanigans on G1, you can side in helm of obedience to use the opponent's leyline or RIP for a win. Contagion Engine is also fun with chalice and ratchet bomb, specially against elves.
I didn't manage to use canonist effectively, as you need to copy a white mana or use cavern, so I sided in against Esper and miracles (they have to choose wisely what to counter).
You're right, forgot about the cascade. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverflame
Trinisphere should stay in I guess, probably instead of Chalices/Grim Monoliths.
Agree on Elves btw, think I've got that covered as far as possible in this setup.
On another note: I'm expecting a lot of Miracles, Omnishow and Grixis at Lille.
I played in MTGO Fight Club , ... you can win store credit!
free Legacy tournament on Gatherling.com in MTGO.
I went 4-0 with this list, beating Elves , Miracles, and a Cloudpost deck
Wasteland is a house . I think it won me the game against Miracles . Coercive Portal also curves very nicely with the deck (you don't need to waste a Monolith activation to cast it) . The biggest under performing card is always Spine but I keep it in the list in case I want to nuke a Batterskull with it and it's in my hand . I wish there were a better alternative. I used to slot a Triskelion instead which nukes planeswalkers. I kind of want to keep playing Triskelion because it's funky. but it doens't hit Batterskull.
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Blasted Landscape
1 Blightsteel Colossus
4 Chalice of the Void
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
2 Coercive Portal
4 Glimmerpost
4 Grim Monolith
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Lightning Greaves
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Metalworker
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
3 Trinisphere
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Vesuva
4 Wasteland
3 Wurmcoil Engine
Sideboard
1 Contagion Engine
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Dodecapod
2 Duplicant
1 Omen Machine
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Trinisphere
1 Witchbane Orb
Doesn't the main deck spine of ish sah get over redundant with the steel hellkite and the 2 ugins? Also, how do you lil the omen machine sideboard? And what do you bring it in against?Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll_ov_Grimness
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHawkX9
Spine of Ish Sah (out of Forgmaster) has kept me from losing more then once. Last time i was able to take out a summening sickness Mangara of Corondor before it got to untap (he also had Karakas tapped to cast it obviously). I agree that Spine is not a card i want to be running, but happens pretty often that it provides an out that can be fetched by Forgemaster. Where Steel Hellkite is to conditional and Ugin (Karn) is to random. Triskilion might be an alternative, but would have been better in a Welder list. And even there it is not standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll_ov_Grimness