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With Dryad Arbor and 4 copies of Lingering Souls, Academy Rector, and Veteran Explorer this should warrant for some additional copies of Diabolic Intent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
Edit: saccing Rector for Intent could potentially dig-up the combo in one go.
Edit2: There is also Enlightened Tutor of course, but i don't realistically see myself searching for any enchantment other then Deed.
I mulliganed a lot, but really never because of too many enchantments - it was always because either no land or no action. It's tough, because all of the enchantments have been all-stars at one point or another. That said, if the meta at CFB stays the same (lots of DRS) I'll probably move Cruel Reality to the sideboard - it's still great in some matchups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulysse95
I played with 1 Dryad for quite a while, but just found too many cases where it was bad (usually involving cracking Deed).Quote:
Also I would had 1GSZ to find more easily those veterans and 1 Dryad has been really relevant for me as ever fetchable leap sacrifice.
Your feeling?
Ah! Yes! Question: on the reading I see a lot of DRS. Did your opponnents often forgot to deal rector with it too? :wink:
No, most of the people knew the interaction, unfortunately :). This is one of the reasons why Collective Brutality was great for me.
Yeah, I thought about making it a package with Enlightened Tutor, but I decided to just leave it as a one-of-surprise to put in whenever the Leylines would go in anyway. Definitely something I'll play around with, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
Interesting decision point came up in my local event last night, thought it might generate some good discussion.
Playing Scape against ANT in game 3, I won game 2 on the back of turn 4 Wish-> Lost Legacy and am on the draw game 3. He leads Delta->Sea, Ponder and keeps off Ponder. My hand is: Badlands, Bayou, Verdant Catacombs, Thoughtseize, Surgical Extraction, 2x Cabal Therapy.
What's your sequence of plays?
Bayou, Thoughtseize to keep him off winning next turn, then if he could go off with 1 more card (Dark Ritual, LED or Infernal Tutor) I'd Surgical anything to force a shuffle. This becomes even better if there's a Tendrils, Infernal Tutor or a double of anything in his hand that you want to Surgical. Then you follow up with the Cabal Therapies over the next turn(s), but how you do that I guess depends on what pressure you can apply and what cards you can get from his hand, this is a more difficult aspect to reply to.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrIggins
I think this is perhaps not a very controversial choice of plays, it becomes more difficult when considering what cards are reveiled form the opponent's hand. Like, if there is a Brainstorm which normally would be chosen, I would consider letting him keep it when you Thoughtseize and let him play it in response to a Cabal Therapy, only to use Surgical after Brainstorm resolves (old trick mentioned before in this thread).
I would probably mulligan that hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrIggins
Assuming you don't though, I would Thoughtseize and aim to disrupt a T2 win. Your primary goal here is to live long enough to use your disruption so Thoughtseize is what you want to stop a T2 win.
On T2 I would hopefully have something else to do since there would be 2 draw steps to find action.
T3 is more complex, and you again have to disrupt if you don't want to die. If they pass with a blue up, you have to assume Brainstorm. So start with Cabal Therapy, if you have a creature down, you can reasonably infer that they plan to Brainstorm on the second casting. So if they do nothing, name Brainstorm. If they cast Brainstorm in response let it resolve, then with Therapy still on the stack use Surgical Extraction on Brainstorm to force a shuffle and see their hand. Name whatever seems appealing with Therapy. Then follow it up with the second Therapy, and a flashback if necessary. If you get through this sequence without using the Extraction, fire it off as another discard spell if relevant.
From here, you've probably bought yourself until turn 5 or 6. So you really need to follow up with a clock. If you drew something big, and you had a creature from T2 I would consider a Flashback therapy over a casted one in order to put the mana towards a bigger clock.
Edit: More detail on the line.
I'll fetch first (into bayou) just to increase my chances to draw another business card next turn.
Turn 1
1) Fetch -> Bayou
2) Play TS
3) Depending on what I chose with TS, I would hold or play Surgical
Turn 2 (I don't take into account the drawn card here)
1) Badland
2) Play CT then the trick if needed (CT in the stack -> BS in response -> Surgical after BS is resolved to not miss on the CT)
3) Play CT n°2
Holding Surgical for Brainstorm is actually interesting. I would not have thought of that. Good line to keep in mind.
I went for Surgical your Ponders to force the shuffle, then evaluate which discard spell to run based on his hand. My reasoning was that there are certainly hands he could have that kill me through Thoughtseize even with a random draw, but which Therapy would disrupt effectively. Stuff like 2x Tutor I guess, but in that case I'd Surgical the Tutor so I think that was just a mistake. Didn't fully think it through.
Turns out his hand was Ritual, Ritual, Duress, Echoing Truth, 2 lands with an Ad Nauseam hiding off the Ponder. Therapy for his Rituals brutalized his hand and I effectively destroyed all his resources over the next few turns (and lost to topdecked Ad Nauseam when he was at 0 cards, but that's not the point). I thought the early game decision point was pretty interesting and I do think I ended up on the wrong line, even though it worked out very well against what he had. I'd love to hear other arguments or sequences.
EDIT: Mulliganing that 7 seems insane to me, yes you need a clock but you get so much time with all that disruption
I think my line world be: surgical -> badlands -> therapy. This way we get to see his hand and possibly hit 2 cards with therapy. Further we shuffle his deck with surgical. But not sure if it's more important to keep the surgical for later...Quote:
Originally Posted by MrIggins
Edit: whoops my phone didn't load the other posts.. sry ;)
Gesendet von meinem SM-J320F mit Tapatalk
Ive been working on a list that tries to push the* excavator/azusa interaction. Since we seem to be in a lull time. Its been playing out alright but i dont know how strong it is. I want to believe in crucible of guy.
Decklist -- Dig fit -- Shared via TopDecked MTG
Dig fit:
Maindeck (61)
Creatures (19)
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
3 Veteran Explorer
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Eternal Witness
1 Heartwood Storyteller
1 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Ramunap Excavator
3 Tireless Tracker
2 Titania, Protector of Argoth
Noncreature (19)
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Crop Rotation
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Pernicious Deed
Land (23)
1 Bayou
4 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Ifnir Deadlands
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Savannah
1 Scavenger Grounds
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
Sideboard (15)
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Liliana's Defeat
2 Path to Exile
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Golgari Charm
2 Lost Legacy
1 Painful Truths
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
So there are some interesting card choices outside of the midrange fit staples (ooze, drs, tracker, pridemage, etc)
Heartwood storyteller: may i present his royal majesty, the begger king of card advantage. Poor man's leovold theoretically helps shore up the fact that once this deck goes into topdeck mode the panic button gets pushed hard. Ideally it eats a kill spell that would be otherwise reserved for tracker and you get to draw a card for the privilege. It can draw your opponent some cards too but you can generally play around that since the majority of the non creatures in the deck are hand disruption (cabal/ts) or a 241 like deed. Also, its fun. Not a terribly serious card. It just wants to be loved and I have love for all of garfield's creatures.
Sylvan safekeeper: i genuinely don't know how many of these guys i should be playing. It synergizes so well with what the deck wants to do but is a horrible top deck and needs the other pieces to be relevant. One plus 4 gsz seems fine for now, but can be reevaluated.
Scavenging grounds: its a repeatable effect with excavator. Doesn't etb tapped. You can choose when it goes off if youre forced to play it for mana. A desert
Ifnir deadlands: i know its slow, but it seems better than cabal pit for a few reasons: counters are more relevant. Kills mentors where pit wouldnt. It can tap for colourless instead of pinging you when you need it for mana. Can also combo with the scavenging grounds. If your graveyard is targeted you can kill something without threshold. 5 mana is a lot, dont get me wrong but it seems interesting so im putting it through the scientific method.
Overall when it works it works. I havent had a large enough sample size to really point to how strong this list is, but it's fun to go off with azusa. There's a lot of synergy and enough answers to commom graveyard hate between the main and board that i dont feel like im completely dead to it. The list seems a little removal light, so im still workshopping the numbers.
The board, as always is subject to change but i feel like it gives me a wide array of answers to the bad match ups. Ive tried to cut as many 3 mana spells in the board cause this curve is kinda wackadoo. Forever a dog to jace.
Things im notably not playing are horizon canopy or the dark depths combo. The reason for this is i dont think the DD combo is where we want to be as that cuts into a huge chunk of deck space and we arent better than turbo depths. I just dont own a horizon canopy but i can see that in placeof my janky storyteller.
Life from the loam is also a consideration but i dont know if this deck needs it.
What does everyone think?
My argument is that disruption doesn't win games. Disruption plus a clock does. I would gladly trade 2 pieces of disruption in that hand for 1 threat.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrIggins
While I agree with you in general, I think your average 6 is going to be a lot worse in the matchup than THAT degree of disruption. I'd swap a Therapy for a Tracker in that hand in a heartbeat, but the risk of mulliganing to a 6 that just doesn't interact is too high, especially in the Scapeshift build.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
I think you forgot Courser of Kruphix. At least 1 instead of a Ramunap, probably a 2 instead of storyteller. Bolt proof, gain life and filtering your draw (a lot with Azuza + Tracker). And you become weakless to grave hate.Quote:
Originally Posted by removedfromgame
Also, scavenging ground isn't recursive at all and destroy your grave too... (yeah, you sac it in the cost of its ability, then you remove cards from both grave, including grounds)
My two cents
Edit: I also didn't saw any dryad arbor... And as DRS is a pleague against your grave land storage, and as you can easily discard any land without too much drawback, I would play collective brutality over thoughtseize
On the Lands Matter Fit list: I'm not sure if it'll work. The land toolbox is nice, but you give up on easily being able to pressure your opponent. I expect a lot of durdling and very little of actually doing anything. The problem with a lot of your engine pieces is that they die very easily and do very little on their own. It just seems like a bad place to put yourself in.
Has anyone seen Mengucci's list? I really fell in love with this :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhKS46IORx8&t=4165s
No, but NO Fit has been done to death and has always been found wanting. While NO gives Nic Fit a powerful plan, it's clunky and will often fail due to the lack of disruption NO Fit lists can support.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosdar
Simply put, when you want to run NO you're best of w/ Elves! and when you want to pilot Nic Fit you're best off running cards that work well without the help of other cards. NO Fit lacks the speed of Elves! and the disruptive ability of traditional Nic Fit lists (regardless of the chosen tertiary colour). The only reason you might do well with NO Fit is b/c the meta is soft to it and people come in unprepared for your NO plan.
You gotta wonder, how much better is Progenitus (plus the space for NO) compared to Carnage Tyrant. Is that really worth the effort?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosdar
On the other hand, the people in this thread, including myself always seem to discard performing lists if those do not fall into flavor. Just look at how people always piss on Birthing Pod. Then the excuse is always something like: 'luck' or 'that card is bad' or 'my variant is better'...
There was some discussion around the time that the video was published. I couldn't find a publication date but I checked the comments and they were from about a month ago so it should be the same stream that was discussed here. Below you'll find a lengthy comment and there is some discussion before and probably after that post too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosdar
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...=1#post1025780
So true. If blue duals were cheaper I think we'd see people playing BUG builds a lot more. Siege Rhino is a joke of a card in the meta at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
I agree that the Natural Order plan is not great. But I like the blue shell...
So, basically we have a million versions:
Natural Order
Valakut / Scapeshift
Normal BUG version
Academy Rector
Which is should I move in to?
Pro and cons of each version?
There's a reason we are discussing one million versions in this thread, and it is at least partly due to there not being a specific best version. I suggest you start with a version that you are interested in, that fits your playstyle, that is close to what you have in cards and close to what you aim to play in the future or in parallell. So if you have the blue lands and think that version seems fun, I would start there. If you have zero cards, I would probably start with a simple, straightforward list like a Rhino-list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosdar