[Deck] GW/x Maverick

@ maharis - the land card seems like a cool choice, however, 5 mana in my build and black mana are hard to come by. I'll consider that option if I change things up.

@T-101 - I play punishing dark maverick and my Mu isn't good with UR right now. Sivvis's Ruse might allow me to stabilize for free and untap my dudes leading to win I'd hope. How do you board against UR? Do you play the DD/Stage combo or any specific board cards? Bloodmoon makes this matchup very awkward for me.

@Thediscopower - Sivvi's Ruse is free and helps all creatures I control (maybe some cool life saving blocks could happen after resolution) and it's just a board card. I'd never try a card with a similar function main deck. I've been playing pyroblast and Zealous Persecution out of the board in the match, and I never feel like they are enough or much better than what I already take out of my deck.

While I'm pleased with GP NJ (10-1-3 Fri and Sat), the bigger takeaway is how well positioned Maverick is. If you have decent experience piloting the deck, you can literally outplay less sophisticated players. Not sour my final 2 opponents didn't scoop to push me to day 2, but I wonder if I could have made top 100.

Of the few cards I acquired, I really want to run Titania. I think Titania + Geddon will create some extremely uncomfortable blowouts for control to deal with. Titania also turns fetches + knights into multiple 5/3's. That's nothing to scoff at either.

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Originally Posted by Warden

While I'm pleased with GP NJ (10-1-3 Fri and Sat), the bigger takeaway is how well positioned Maverick is. If you have decent experience piloting the deck, you can literally outplay less sophisticated players. Not sour my final 2 opponents didn't scoop to push me to day 2, but I wonder if I could have made top 100.

Of the few cards I acquired, I really want to run Titania. I think Titania + Geddon will create some extremely uncomfortable blowouts for control to deal with. Titania also turns fetches + knights into multiple 5/3's. That's nothing to scoff at either.

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What about Titania and Sylvan Safekeeper? Plus, Safekeeper with Gaddock Teeg is pretty good too.

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Originally Posted by H

What about Titania and Sylvan Safekeeper? Plus, Safekeeper with Gaddock Teeg is pretty good too.

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I thought about including Titania this weekend, but opted not to because I didn't want to try completely untested tech. I am already running 1 Safekeeper, and I think if I included a Cradle to boost mana production for GSZ, Titania could easily have a place in the deck.

EOT, sac all my lands, make a bunch of 5/3 Elementals seems like it would end most games. Paying 6 mana is a rough, but if it presents you with a 1 turn clock, that seems worth testing out. I'll give it a whirl and see if there's anything worth posting by next week.

I generally don't like safekeeper. I understand the alpha strike combo but can't see a matchup where that's "better" than simply using Titania and grinding out 5/3 guys. Miracles can at any moment terminus you out or respond to Titania triggers. If she's on the table, I'm happy with whatever else happens. Against crap like DnT or UR Delver, again, I like Titania being on the table and her triggers being gravy. I don't believe my playstyle needs to milk Titania. She's fucking powerful based on the players who used her. Even the ability to recur a land when she comes into play ---> wasteland ---> is nuking resources while making a 5/3. That's serious value. I wouldn't jam Safekeeper despite the synergy. I think Safekeeper detracts from the overall list. That's my 2 cents.

Titania is the fucking truth. She is so good.

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Originally Posted by Warden

I generally don't like safekeeper. I understand the alpha strike combo but can't see a matchup where that's "better" than simply using Titania and grinding out 5/3 guys. Miracles can at any moment terminus you out or respond to Titania triggers. If she's on the table, I'm happy with whatever else happens. Against crap like DnT or UR Delver, again, I like Titania being on the table and her triggers being gravy. I don't believe my playstyle needs to milk Titania. She's fucking powerful based on the players who used her. Even the ability to recur a land when she comes into play ---> wasteland ---> is nuking resources while making a 5/3. That's serious value. I wouldn't jam Safekeeper despite the synergy. I think Safekeeper detracts from the overall list. That's my 2 cents.

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I guess we just have a difference of opinion on Safekeeper.

I'm not advocating Safekeeper based solely on the "Combo-Kill" of giving something Shroud 4 or 5 times and making a bunch of 5/3s, I just like Safekeeper as a Zenith target. Being that when I play this style of deck that I'm already including a Safekeeper, the option of EOT army seems worth keeping in the ol' wheelhouse.

Of course, going all in with Titania/Safekeeper vs. Miracles is... unwise (assuming we don't have a Teeg in play). But I wouldn't mind going for it against other decks. If I'm against Delver/Storm/Elves/Dredge, I could see myself going for it.

So, I know recently Tom commented on here and was saying that he has enjoyed the inclusion of Courser of Kruphix in his deck. If the meta begins to shift away from UR Delver style decks and shifts towards UWR Blade deck, do you guys think that slot would go back to Qasali Pridemage?

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Originally Posted by ironclad8690

So, I know recently Tom commented on here and was saying that he has enjoyed the inclusion of Courser of Kruphix in his deck. If the meta begins to shift away from UR Delver style decks and shifts towards UWR Blade deck, do you guys think that slot would go back to Qasali Pridemage?

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Why not both?.jpg

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Originally Posted by Koby

Why not both?.jpg

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I guess it just comes down to if 3 QPM or 2 QPM/1 COK (lol) is the right call. I have been testing Courser and liking him, but he seemed to be an inclusion mostly for UR delver. A couple of the local players at my store have opted for the new flavor of the week, UWR blade, over their previous UR Delver decks.

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Originally Posted by HoneyT

Titania is the fucking truth. She is so good.

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I know man. It's a shame we aren't discussing her more.

I ordered one just in case. I think she has a lot of potential, especially with knight on the field (which isn't really a winmore scenario).

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Originally Posted by HoneyT

Titania is the fucking truth. She is so good.

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Pretty much, if you wanted to run Sigarda, you should run Titania instead.
However, if you were not running Sigarda, then you probably should not force Titania.

Assuming most players are playing with some number of Deathrite Shamans over Noble Hierarch, what does your manabase look like? The singleton bullets like Karakas, Cradle, Arbor, Maze, etc. are fine to discuss, but more interested in the things that get you to casting Knight. Are 6 forest/plains/swamps enough for 9 fetches (and the occasional Knight for fetch)?

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Originally Posted by TMagpie

Pretty much, if you wanted to run Sigarda, you should run Titania instead.
However, if you were not running Sigarda, then you probably should not force Titania.

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I don't know if I agree with that. Sigarda has different applications. The hexproof is great against heavy removal midrange decks. The flying makes her especially great against any planeswalkers and at carrying equipment. Her can't have you sac from opponents spells/abilities is relevant against Liliana, Eldrazi, etc.

Titania is only good if you have Knight out, or have wasteland and fetches on your board. I assume if you hard casting/green sunning for her, you probably have already ran through your fetches and wastelands (besides the 1 land you get with her entering the battlefield). However, having 5/3 is never a bad thing. I just don't think that you're going to be making as many tokens as you think you are. It isn't a young pyromancer or anything. Now this is all being said without play testing her. However, Titania only seems conditional good while if Sigarda hits the table, its usually an assured victory.

Good afternoon, everyone. Long time reader, first time poster on The Source. I post over at MTG Salvation under the same user name (TheoryCraft). I do not claim to be an MTG master, though I do have a few IQ Top 8's under my belt and I've been reading and playtesting long enough to feel comfortable to chime in.

I am planning on getting some significant playtesting in next weekend with different Maverick variants, but nonetheless my mainstay list has been - and will likely continue to be - a list akin to Tom Herzog's (no DD/Thespian, load up QPM, 2x Sylvan, 4/1 DRS:Noble split, no cute Safekeeper/Scryb Ranger stuff, etc.). As an aside, Tom, I greatly respect your patient game play and championing of the Maverick banner at SCG events this year (and also the fact that I am a Michigan State law grad, so the MSU ties run deep). I too have felt like Maverick has been underrated for quite some time now. I am in agreement with your earlier statement that any Maverick list that does not run 4x Thalia is just not well-equipped to handle the general meta right now (obviously YMMV at local gaming stores).

My question is, have you (Tom) or anyone else had an opportunity to get impactful testing in on Courser of Kruphix? It seems like an interesting pet card and particularly strong against UR Delver and Burn, both of which are well-positioned at the moment, but I can't help but think that a 2x mainboard Ooze is just better most of the time. Courser with Sylvan is ridiculous, I agree, but then again so is an Ooze with Gaea's Cradle in play. Also, in general, Ooze presents a strong threat that most decks need to remove immediately or suffer the consequences (especially decks that do not have AD or StP). What are your thoughts on the 2nd Ooze?

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Originally Posted by DudeItsCorey

I don't know if I agree with that. Sigarda has different applications. The hexproof is great against heavy removal midrange decks. The flying makes her especially great against any planeswalkers and at carrying equipment. Her can't have you sac from opponents spells/abilities is relevant against Liliana, Eldrazi, etc.

Titania is only good if you have Knight out, or have wasteland and fetches on your board. I assume if you hard casting/green sunning for her, you probably have already ran through your fetches and wastelands (besides the 1 land you get with her entering the battlefield). However, having 5/3 is never a bad thing. I just don't think that you're going to be making as many tokens as you think you are. It isn't a young pyromancer or anything. Now this is all being said without play testing her. However, Titania only seems conditional good while if Sigarda hits the table, its usually an assured victory.

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I guess, to me, you can only really have one 4 or 5 drop in the 75 and I like having explosive options as my trumps as opposed to safer options.

Or maybe I'm just enthralled by the artwork--in either case, I feel like (as a trump card) Titania seems like something you could leverage for more 180's in game state than a "mere" (and I say that jokingly) 5/5 flyer.

That being said, I was a staunch Sigarda loyalist until I tested Dark Depths for the first time, so maybe I'm just in a token kick.

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Originally Posted by ironclad8690

I guess it just comes down to if 3 QPM or 2 QPM/1 COK (lol) is the right call. I have been testing Courser and liking him, but he seemed to be an inclusion mostly for UR delver. A couple of the local players at my store have opted for the new flavor of the week, UWR blade, over their previous UR Delver decks.

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I love Courser. I made the change before the GP after reading the suggestion and I was extremely happy with it. I can't imagine needing (okay strictly speaking blowing up all their equipment is good, but w/e) more than two pridemages, especially in the SFM mirror, for game 2 perhaps there's another pridemage and k-grip to bring in.

ninja edit - Courser synergizes very well with Sylvan Library. In a midrange mirror it's very important to get card advantage and Courser + Sylvan Library fits the bill.

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Originally Posted by barcode

I love Courser. I made the change before the GP after reading the suggestion and I was extremely happy with it. I can't imagine needing (okay strictly speaking blowing up all their equipment is good, but w/e) more than two pridemages, especially in the SFM mirror, for game 2 perhaps there's another pridemage and k-grip to bring in.

ninja edit - Courser synergizes very well with Sylvan Library. In a midrange mirror it's very important to get card advantage and Courser + Sylvan Library fits the bill.

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I agree with this. I ended up trying the card online first, just because I wasn't sure about it, but I am now very happy with it. Even if you can't hide anything when it gets into play, generating card advantage and gaining free lifes is just so good. And the power toughness are also good.

Yep, I am convinced by it now.

Now, if I could just get a Titania online, or any cmd 2014 card for that matter...

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Originally Posted by ThediscoPower

I agree with this. I ended up trying the card online first, just because I wasn't sure about it, but I am now very happy with it. Even if you can't hide anything when it gets into play, generating card advantage and gaining free lifes is just so good. And the power toughness are also good.

Yep, I am convinced by it now.

Now, if I could just get a Titania online, or any cmd 2014 card for that matter...

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Which aspect of the card is good--the "land draw" or the lifegain? It seems like it has too little of each for 3 mana, but how is it actually playing out? What matchups do you actually zenith for it instead of a Knight?

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Originally Posted by TMagpie

Which aspect of the card is good--the "land draw" or the lifegain? It seems like it has too little of each for 3 mana, but how is it actually playing out? What matchups do you actually zenith for it instead of a Knight?

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Being a flat 2/4 means it's quite good at holding the ground. "Drawing a card" every now and then also very good value in almost every matchup. The lifegain in this metagame is not irrelevant. Synergizing with Sylvan Library (which we want to play anyways) is also top notch.

All of these things make me want to play Courser.

I Zenith for one when I'm behind on lands or need to hold the ground against Burn or UR Delver. Courser is a good mid-game stepping stone to the late game 9/9 Knight plan.

Good day guys;

i'm an old italian magic player since 96 and i'm playin Maverick atm, after a couple of years idle.

Last night testing with my team shows me that UR delver really kick my ass. ATM i'm play herzog list with black for DSR and Adecay in side.
I feel bad with that list, (only scyb's for ooze is my change and no cradle :cry:)

Really this deck seems to lose after the good early phase of the game, maybe too many :1: drop and nothing to freeze the game when in advantage, this is what i see.

How do you feel against UR burn or UR pyromancer deck based? what You side in?

I don't like also the COK (even if is very good with sylvan) for the same reason, it does not seal the game when in.

any suggest to my problem? in my zone ur decks are 50% of the meta.

If the meta was nothing but stonebladedurdlemidrange.dec, Courser would be great. Otherwise it is irrelevant against most everything else in the field. It gives up all of your information, the lifegain is too slow and irrelevant, and it can't block a Swiftspear worth more than any other 3 drop creature you could use.

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Originally Posted by Zulabnar

Good day guys;

i'm an old italian magic player since 96 and i'm playin Maverick atm, after a couple of years idle.

Last night testing with my team shows me that UR delver really kick my ass. ATM i'm play herzog list with black for DSR and Adecay in side.
I feel bad with that list, (only scyb's for ooze is my change and no cradle :cry:)

Really this deck seems to lose after the good early phase of the game, maybe too many :1: drop and nothing to freeze the game when in advantage, this is what i see.

How do you feel against UR burn or UR pyromancer deck based? what You side in?

I don't like also the COK (even if is very good with sylvan) for the same reason, it does not seal the game when in.

any suggest to my problem? in my zone ur decks are 50% of the meta.

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What seems to be your issue with UR delver? I haven't experienced an issue with the deck so far. Everyone playing UR delver is what made me start experimenting with maverick.

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Originally Posted by JankMaster

What seems to be your issue with UR delver? I haven't experienced an issue with the deck so far. Everyone playing UR delver is what made me start experimenting with maverick.

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I've never lost a series vs a UR delver deck, but a lot of my almost losses I pulled out due to random Marit lage token. Do you run Dark Depths?

I'm running the depths combo. This week I beat UR delver in a game I mulled to 4. After that game I don't know if I will ever remove the combo.

Recently I have been doing a lot of testing with Punishing Dark Maverick on Twitch, and I have recorded the match ups. Not all of my lists are the same in the testing, and some of the hands are hard to see, but I think the videos will be interesting to watch. I hope people like what they see. I played the same 60 as Fabian Gorzgen but I changed the board drastically to improve some match ups.

Maverick vs Patriot blade (BBD build)

Start here and we start the match around 10 mins in

http://www.twitch.tv/phlogisten/b/591324479

http://www.twitch.tv/phlogisten/b/591384455


After several matches I cut two swords to plowshares into the board and kept the DD combo to get around TNN lock.

Lesser quality pre-GP NJ testing vs UR and UWR MIracles before I realized how hard it was to see my hand when I played.

This was a play test day before the event. It's about 3 cards different than the other list played in the video before. Around this time I was considering Maze of Ith. I made room for sword of fire and ice, and it wasn't worth it. Batterskull in this list is enough. The miracles matches were great to see. Learning more about the deck from a second hand perspective has helped me beat it in games. You can watch my over extensions and shake your heads as terminus ruins my games. 3 teegs in the 75 will be my next try when I record and test against the deck.

http://www.twitch.tv/phlogisten/b/588497620
http://www.twitch.tv/phlogisten/b/588552057
http://www.twitch.tv/phlogisten/b/588605073

More videos to come. I hope you enjoy watching.

Knight/fetchland/zenith + courser on board means you can manipulate your draws and shuffle away cards you definitely do not need. I think that's what matters most.

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Originally Posted by JankMaster

I'm running the depths combo. This week I beat UR delver in a game I mulled to 4. After that game I don't know if I will ever remove the combo.

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That's generally how I feel about it. I admit I was running "only" using cradle at the GP. Cradle held its own against the wide field in ways the DD/Stage would have felt a turn too slow. It made me feel naked at times. I also couldn't "just auto-kill" -- a feature I love against durdly decks.

@UR Delver:
The key was Scooze. I crushed TC delver at the GP and had ridiculous wasteland/thalia/scooze end them. Also, if they fetch a dual to open, you burn an available wasteland in your hand to strand them. My opponent kept a 1 lander and I pushed him turn 1 by wasteland-ing his opening dual. He bricks for 5 turns without lands while I thalia/scooze him out.

I agree on ooze 100%!!!

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Originally Posted by JankMaster

I'm running the depths combo. This week I beat UR delver in a game I mulled to 4. After that game I don't know if I will ever remove the combo.

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May games are like this.

Either an early thalia wrecks their tempo
Or a midgame night is just unkillable
Or I stabilize, and before they burn me out I DD them

Without DD I feel that Maverick will too often get "burnt out" by treasure cruise drawing them the last 2-3 burn spells needed to finish you off. I'm just trying to get a gauge if there's a pattern between DD players having an easier time vs UR Cruise Delver than non-DD players.

Has anyone tested 1-2 Bitterblossom out of the board? Saw Glenn Jones' article on SCG last Thursday had one in the board. Primarily for Miracles and Stoneblade (and other grindy decks).

I've been testing with it some over the weekend and very impressed so far.

In the DGA thread I was mentioning that I think Bitterblossom is best for a Junk deck (but is perfectly acceptable in the side for miracles or something. Though I think Elspeth/Garruk will treat you better.) The reason is:
A) Junk is typically a Goyf Deck; so you can give him an easy +2
B) It's not in your primary color, and your primary color can do the same thing with stronger cards.

For instance, a Junk deck can't comfortably run Elspeth any more than you can jam in Lily. I think Souls is generally accepted as stronger (especially next to SoLaS, if you run it) and I'd say that that logic applies here as well, since you don't have much black and since you don't run Goyf.

Went 1-2 in my weekly local.

Burn 1-2 tied up and then during the last game which I think I was going to win some little kids came into the store (which I work at) so i had to help them and when the round timer went off i conceded.

Death and Taxes 2-1 crazy jitte battles in all games, but KOTR ended up saving the day in the games which i won. I love having large green creatures in the face of all these little men. Zealous doing work in game 3 as well.

UWR blade 0-2: game 1 mulled to 4 and almost got there but the bricks hurt real bad. TNN finished me off, i should note that he cast 2 DTT this game. Game 2 i built up my board and to my surprise opp played supreme verdict. I couldnt rebuild, he casts at least 3 force of wills and 2 DTTs again.

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Originally Posted by tescrin

Though I think Elspeth/Garruk will treat you better.

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The biggest advantage to Bitterblossom is that it comes down so early. In a Miracles match that likely doesn't matter, whereas 2cmc is a very real concern vs Counterbalance.

Of the 3, I personally think Garruk is the best option. That's just me though.

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Originally Posted by Cambriel

The biggest advantage to Bitterblossom is that it comes down so early. In a Miracles match that likely doesn't matter, whereas 2cmc is a very real concern vs Counterbalance.

Of the 3, I personally think Garruk is the best option. That's just me though.

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Due to the nature of the miracles matchup in conjunction with its sudden rise in popularity, I have been using 3 slots in my sideboard for 2 Armageddon + 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All.

My question is this--is it better to run planes walkers instead? How big a trump is a token generator vs miracles? Is it a bigger trump to run geddon?

I used Kjeldoran outpost once to test the theory (I know it's janky.) My general experience was you not only need the token generator but you need disruption coming over the top of it (in your case, Teeg/Thalia) to last long enough for that token clock to matter. Instead of this; if you have a stream of tokens attaching equipment, this is enough to establish a good clock without commiting anything. The equips are the important part. The tokens are not quite enough by themselves IME.

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Originally Posted by tescrin

I used Kjeldoran outpost once to test the theory (I know it's janky.) My general experience was you not only need the token generator but you need disruption coming over the top of it (in your case, Teeg/Thalia) to last long enough for that token clock to matter. Instead of this; if you have a stream of tokens attaching equipment, this is enough to establish a good clock without commiting anything. The equips are the important part. The tokens are not quite enough by themselves IME.

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I don't feel bad about not running elspeths anymore then.

Top 4 with Punishing Dark Maverick today at a scg IQ with 45 people. Here is my list.

http://www.mtgpulse.com/event/18566#261707

Punishing Fire and Pyroblast have been pretty nice as blade decks in my area have become more prevalent than UR delver decks. The E tutor board was nice, but I think the deck can still do well without it. Life from the Loam in my 60 is feeling okay, as it's a great card historically in the deck, however, it may not be necessary.

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Originally Posted by Strassbaw

Top 4 with Punishing Dark Maverick today at a scg IQ with 45 people. Here is my list.

http://www.mtgpulse.com/event/18566#261707

Punishing Fire and Pyroblast have been pretty nice as blade decks in my area have become more prevalent than UR delver decks. The E tutor board was nice, but I think the deck can still do well without it. Life from the Loam in my 60 is feeling okay, as it's a great card historically in the deck, however, it may not be necessary.

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Damn dude, not bad, how many of these things have you top 8'ed at this point? I feel like I am always seeing your name on decklist websites. Have you always played the punishing version?