[Primer/Deck] Pox

Yep, that's a typical eldrazi decklist. Personally I find that my list has a fairly good matchup against that deck unless they have a thorn start and I stumble. The early drops can be handled by scroll/decay, and the late drops can be handled with discard and the edicts. It's also not unreasonable to keep them off the mana for smasher, which is actually the most dangerous threat for us when it hits the table. I find that I can keep them off smasher mana about one out of four or five games we play.

Hi guys,

looking for a standard Pox decklist to start tinkering with. What would be a good starting point ?

Thanks.

Didn't you just post a similar comment in the Armageddon Stax forum? If you don't want people to like you, you could just avoid people. That is why I tend towards Stax and Pox.

If I had to sleeve up a Mono Black list tomorrow and play it, this is the 75 that I would likely be on.

Deck pox (60)

Lands
2 Dakmor Salvage
4 Mishra's Factory
10 Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland

Creatures
1 Nether Spirit

Spells
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Cursed Scroll
3 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
2 Spinning Darkness

Sideboard
3 Engineered Plague
3 Extirpate
1 Nether Void
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Pithing Needle
1 Spinning Darkness
1 Surgical Extraction
2 The Abyss
1 Toxic Deluge

Time for another stupid question.

Before I ask, this is the current list:

4 Dark Ritual
3 Innocent Blood
2 Funeral Charm
3 Thoughtseize
2 Cursed Scroll

4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach

4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Nether Spirit
1 Pox

1 Night of Souls' Betrayal *temp while waiting for mail*
1 Murderous Cut

4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
12 Swamp

2 Flex Slot, currently 2 Crucible of Worlds

SIDEBOARD
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Trinisphere
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Pithing Needle

In the mail: 1 Nether Void, 1 The Abyss, 1 Chains of Mephistopheles

Now onto the stupid question.
Well, more like 4.

1- I wonder if my sideboard is just wrong? I have no way to get any card advantage, so hoping to topdeck the right card after turn 4 or 5 seems bad. Maybe change some of the 2x cards into 3x cards, just for consistency?

2- When I get those cards in the mail, I want to find space in the sb for The Abyss, and possibly the 2nd Chains. However, there is an underlying question that leads me to the right path. Do I need Trinisphere in the board? Or am I just used to running it because I hate counterspells that much?

3 - Other than Ensnaring Bridge, I have no way to survive a resolved Marit Lage token. Should we consider Diabolic Edict?

4- Toxic Deluge, should I consider it? There is a lot of Delver, DnT, and Jund in my meta.

5- I really want to find room for a 2nd Pox. Any suggestions?


I know, it's like I'm asking to be spoonfed answers here, but building the correct sideboard has always been an issue for me. Also, the last time I played a deck similar to this was at least 10 years ago, before the addition of Planeswalkers to the game.


Edit:
Main: -1 Night of Souls' Betrayal, -1 Dark Ritual, +1 Pox, +1 Swamp. Left a sharpie mark on the sleeve to see how the hand looks as a Nether Void instead of a swamp.)
Side: -2 Trinisphere, +1 Night of Souls' Betrayal, +1 Murderous Cut. Murderous Cut will become The Abyss after I receive it in the mail.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AceOfJacks

1- I wonder if my sideboard is just wrong? I have no way to get any card advantage, so hoping to topdeck the right card after turn 4 or 5 seems bad. Maybe change some of the 2x cards into 3x cards, just for consistency?

2- When I get those cards in the mail, I want to find space in the sb for The Abyss, and possibly the 2nd Chains. However, there is an underlying question that leads me to the right path. Do I need Trinisphere in the board? Or am I just used to running it because I hate counterspells that much?

3 - Other than Ensnaring Bridge, I have no way to survive a resolved Marit Lage token. Should we consider Diabolic Edict?

4- Toxic Deluge, should I consider it? There is a lot of Delver, DnT, and Jund in my meta.

5- I really want to find room for a 2nd Pox. Any suggestions?

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1. Your sideboard seems fine. It is perfectly fine to diversify your options. You cover most of your problem match ups with your board.

2. I doubt you really need trinisphere. Some number of them can be decent, but it isn't necessary.

3. Pithing needle, leyline of the void and your land destruction should be enough to keep lands down where marit lage can be managed.

4. I like toxic deluge a lot for the fact that it can X for 1 an opponent at the small cost of some life, which is what we do. We do not generally have library manipulation or card advantage in card draw, so we need as many X for 1 effects as we can get. Hence why we run Hymn, Liliana, Nether Spirit, Smallpox, etc.

5. 2nd Pox I usually am not happy with. But if I had to drop anything it would be a thoughtseize since the additional 2 life lost can be a big deal when losing 1/3 your life rounded up multiple times.

I run four pox, but then i built a deck that is happy to do so. For the control variant, discussed here, it is often not run at all.

The new card "Collective Brutality" looks interesting. I suppose the escalate cost is paid as part of casting cost?

Yes, it would be. Nice way to empty your hand for Bridge? Seems too all-in unless you're utilizing Life from the Loam, and even then, very risky.

It is a kind of charm. Would be nice against fair decks and burn.

Actually, it will be sick in Loam decks.

:mad: No, this is not the card i am looking for. The mechanic of Escalate is restricted, possibly to avoid creating something broken, but that also limit the playability of the card.
If it had been possible to choose one and the same of the modes, as many times you could pay for it, THEN it would have been strong.
For example making a Drain life paid for by card discard rather than mana.
As i understand it now that is not how it is supposed to work.

Having said that there IS a pox like quality to it.

The new Liliana is as bad as the old is good. Wonder what wizards was thinking when they designed it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

The new Liliana is as bad as the old is good. Wonder what wizards was thinking when they designed it.

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Likely trying to keep it as balanced as possible. I will give her this, she kills Pyromancer which can be problematic, unflipped delvers, thalia and every other x/1 out of dnt, she nerfs goyf and shardless agents, kills strix, kills most elves, she can return a tombstalker from the bin if you run them and lose one, her ultimate can close a game to a decent extent. The issue is, she doesn't replace liliana of the veil so that is obviously a big shot to the prospect of running her. Her +1 which protects her could potentially be ok since the veils -2 leaves her vulnerable for 2 turns.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mykatdied

Likely trying to keep it as balanced as possible. I will give her this, she kills Pyromancer which can be problematic, unflipped delvers, thalia and every other x/1 out of dnt, she nerfs goyf and shardless agents, kills strix, kills most elves, she can return a tombstalker from the bin if you run them and lose one, her ultimate can close a game to a decent extent. The issue is, she doesn't replace liliana of the veil so that is obviously a big shot to the prospect of running her. Her +1 which protects her could potentially be ok since the veils -2 leaves her vulnerable for 2 turns.

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She's obviously balanced for standard, in which she is a really good 3 mana planeswalker. I don't think pox will ever get a better walker for us then Liliana of the Veil. I can see her as a potential roleplayer in shardless agent and other decks though. Getting back your best threat (goyf I guess) sounds pretty neat.

With that said, the oath almost looks like as a sweeter 1 of to run alongside 4 liliana of the veil.

Yes, the oath looks nice, but if you draw no lilianas then it is just a one for one card. We have lots of better cards for three mana.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mykatdied

Likely trying to keep it as balanced as possible. I will give her this, she kills Pyromancer which can be problematic, unflipped delvers, thalia and every other x/1 out of dnt, she nerfs goyf and shardless agents, kills strix, kills most elves, she can return a tombstalker from the bin if you run them and lose one, her ultimate can close a game to a decent extent. The issue is, she doesn't replace liliana of the veil so that is obviously a big shot to the prospect of running her. Her +1 which protects her could potentially be ok since the veils -2 leaves her vulnerable for 2 turns.

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If her ability had been -1/-2 then she could have killed the most problematic creatures: DRS, SFM and flipped Delvers...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

If her ability had been -1/-2 then she could have killed the most problematic creatures: DRS, SFM and flipped Delvers...

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That much is true, but standard is a format all about creature interaction -1/-2 is important there since it will trump all creature combat. The -2 ability is also very relevant for the format.

If you would build a more graveyard creature centric build (Probably splashing green or blue) this could be an alternative. This discussion may very well be more suited to a nic fit or jund forum though.

I am pretty interested in her in (modern) Jund, and having -1/-2 would've been amazing, but yeah she has no place here. She's best fighting alongside creatures (zombies) where her +1 can tilt combat math in your favor and her -2 can return creatures that you lose.

I feel she plays differently with mid-range decks than Veil because she allows you to hold onto your removal, so she can continue to +1 while your creatures and drawn cards hold off their creatures, as opposed to being vulnerable to top decks.

I am warming to the Collective Brutality. It will be useful against various decks, and its casting cost is less than the other cards in the series. My problem now is more about getting good threats.

I don't hate one of new Lili as an option vs elves and D&T, and I actually think that this is the best format for collective brutality, as so many decks have so few ways to actually get ahead on cards, it's basically a scaling smallpox that doesn't touch their mana. It's not the best spell we have access to, but it offers some of the versatility that we lose by virtue of not playing counterspells and brainstorm in our long-game plan