[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

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Originally Posted by MoonDark

Test porcelain legionarie, he can block wild nacatl and kird apes. He will eat removal though, but in that match I think it's better than revoker.

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TBH i play with 2 Revoker Main, there is hardly a matchup where I dont wanna have em

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Originally Posted by bokwinkle

As far as equipment goes...I will never cut Jitte or SoFI from my list. Jitte is a swiss army knife and SoFI is the most consistent fast clock and only equipment that flat out draws you cards when considering equipment. All of the other equipment talked about here (SoBM, SoLaS, SoWaP, SoFF, Batterskull) is conditionally good, depending on your meta and your build. Batterskull is quickly becoming another "must have" equipment though, IMHO.

As for SFM, I'll continue to look for ways to maintain a package of about 7-8 finishers in this deck as through my testing and experience this always seems like the right number. In that 7-8, I include all equipment and stoneforge mystics...and anything over 3 mana is probably also a finisher. If my primary win con was SFM and equipment then I'd probably run a 4/4 split with SoFI, Jitte, Batterskull, and the 4th equipment would depend on meta. Alternatively, I'm also actively persuing ways to include at least one enlightened tutor in the deck, so having more equipment targets will make E-Tutor stronger, and it gives the opportunity to run stuff like Moat and Runed Halo in the board. IMHO running more E-Tutor and SFM also turn the deck more to white though and more susceptable to Null Rod and losses to Affinity (because equipment is slow and you can't run null rod yourself as easilly), so if you have a meta prepared for affinity I'd probably look for different SFM counts...and I'd be cautious about running Vial or Chrome Mox as well.

Filter lands...They are great in white heavy lists trying to run Hymn, or black heavy lists trying to run Crusader, or any deck trying to run Obliterator. However, they are more non-basics in a deck that is generally pretty resiliant to wasteland...I guess it depends on if you think you are gaining more from running hymn, crusader, and/or Obliterator than you are loosing from becoming more vulnerable to wasteland. I don't necessarilly fear wasteland, but it's the most common card in legacy, so being able to play around or through it will make any deck more resilient.

Chrome Mox...I hate this card. I've tried to like it, but it's straight up card disadvantage and more weakness to Null Rod (as stated above). To me, DGA is all about card advantage, so running chrome mox just seems counter intuitive...personally, if I'm going to run a card that has card disadvantage, it's going to be E-Tutor or Dark Ritual.

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Lotus Petal is concievably better, but not by much. Dark Ritual is the only viable alternative. Turn 1 Ritz into Thoughtsieze and Bitterblossom seems pretty good to me :)

Guys just a couple of questions:
1) Do you usually play dark confidant and bitterblossom at the same time? Will the lifeloss be worth it?
2) How do we beat Merfolk?
THANKS

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Originally Posted by nestle_19

Guys just a couple of questions:
1) Do you usually play dark confidant and bitterblossom at the same time? Will the lifeloss be worth it?
2) How do we beat Merfolk?
THANKS

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1) It depends on the matchup and how early you can lay them down but most of the time, yes, I don't mind having both in play. The life loss can be outset by Jitte or VNH.
2) I beat merfolk by sneaking a SFM through and securing a SoFI or Jitte. I pack 2-3 Eplagues for G2-3.

Here is my list for reference, I don't think i've ever posted it:


Creatures (14)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
3 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Phyrexian Obliterator

Spells (19)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Bitterblossom
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate

Artifacts (6)
3 Chrome Mox
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Lands (21)
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Swamp
1 Plains

Sideboard (15)
3 Pithing Needle
4 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Engineered Plague


I really dislike the idea of Chrome Mox and its card disadvantage but It is definitely more powerful than Dark Ritual. My deck really lacks 1CMC cards so making full use of a ritual on T1 is a rare thing. Furthermore, Mox stays on the field for subsequent turns and allows me not only to drop my bombs on T1 but also to keep up the pressure on T2 while laying down a Wasteland. I have no problems with my manabase and playing around Wasteland. I am not yet sold on Batterskull and will have to see it get more action. Obliterator stands tall like a mountain against aggro and carries equipments unblocked when the air is crowded.

If i play with BB I play confidant the same time, but I dont play BB to be honest. But yes I would.
And how we beat Merrow? Stoneforge T2 SoFaI and best another Stoneforge for Batterskull, then it should be easy - atleast for my list.

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Originally Posted by Philipp802

If i play with BB I play confidant the same time, but I dont play BB to be honest. But yes I would.
And how we beat Merrow? Stoneforge T2 SoFaI and best another Stoneforge for Batterskull, then it should be easy - atleast for my list.

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But the thing is sometimes their Lords pump their guys and SOFAI cant kill their dudes. So its off to the races then?or Jitte? Im really having a hard time with merfolk for some reason -sigh-.

you have to save your removal and discard for their lords, run E-plague after board, and play around daze/cursecatcher.

merfolk plays 8 cards that are straight-up card disadvantage (FoW + Vial), so if you can set up a few key blocks and or removal spells early and follow that up with stuff like Jitte and/or Batterskull they will fold quickly. Jitte, Batterskull, and SoFI are absolute beatings for them since they are card advantage AND make your creatures bigger than theirs - they generally don't have removal and they don't like attacking into big dudes. I win a lot of games against merfolk at less than 5 life with them having either just a FoW or just a vial in hand...it's all about stabalizing and establishing board position and then winning through card advantage.

Guys, ive been testplaying a team america list today... the one showed at the thread at DtB... and it was unbelieveable... i won 9 out of 10 games. Oh god I want this Deck at all my tournaments :)

What do you guys think of this really weird Vial Deadguy version?


Creatures (20)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vault Skirge
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Etched Champion

Spells (8)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Inquisition of Kozilek

Artifacts (12)
4 Mox Opal
4 Aether Vial
2 Cranial Plating
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Lands (20)
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Ancient Den
4 Vault of Whispers

Sideboard (15)
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Diabolic Edict

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Originally Posted by Philipp802

Guys, ive been testplaying a team america list today... the one showed at the thread at DtB... and it was unbelieveable... i won 9 out of 10 games. Oh god I want this Deck at all my tournaments :)

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With what list ? :)

the standart one: FoW, Daze, Snuff out, Goyf, Tombstalker, Brainstorm, Ponder, Thoughtseize, Sinkhole... I think that was the core - it was easy as.....babypoo :)

@Philipp: What does that have to do with Deadguy?

@Qweerios: I'm not a huge fan of Vault Skirge. I would probably drop them and run some combination of Revoker/Canonist instead. You should definitely also check out Dispatch. Maybe a 2/2 split with swords, or drop IoK or something. E. Tutor is also something worth considering. It gives you a ton of flexibility main, and even more sideboard. 2 Main and 1 in the board is a pretty good start.

If using Tutor boards I recommend having a phyrexian metamorph against progenitus, emrakul, iona and other trubblesome legends. Cant be Missteped, spellpierced or spellsnared :P

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Originally Posted by Rizso

If using Tutor boards I recommend having a phyrexian metamorph against progenitus, emrakul, iona and other trubblesome legends. Cant be Missteped, spellpierced or spellsnared :P

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too bad Tutor can be :(

Metamorph is also theoretically really good against TA. If you copy their Tombstalker, they can't hit it with Snuff out, GftT, or Doom Blade. All they can really do is trade with it.

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Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

Metamorph is also theoretically really good against TA. If you copy their Tombstalker, they can't hit it with Snuff out, GftT, or Doom Blade. All they can really do is trade with it.

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Of course they can GftT it...

EDIT... nvm it stays an artifact

So I've been testing DGA for weeks, and never felt like I could get the deck consistent enough until I started cutting a few cards regarded as staples in the resurgence. I decided I hated Thoughtseize, hated Bitterblossom, and hated Phyrexian Obliterator, so I did Taco stuff and cut them all. The result was a faster, more consistent, much more streamlined Deadguy Ale.

So I decided to break from Blue (Mostly. See Sideboard) and play it at locals tonight. I played the following list:

4 Marsh Flats
1 Polluted Delta
4 Scrubland
5 Swamp
3 Fetid Heath
3 Wasteland
3 Chrome Mox

1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Duress
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

3 Mother of Runes
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Mirran Crusader

SB:
3 Mental Misstep
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Pithing Needle
1 Gerrard's Verdict
1 Engineered Plague
1 Perish
1 Darkblast
1 Serenity
1 Phyrexian Unlife
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Tidehollow Sculler

I managed to beat Zoo 2-0, some weird Myr deck 2-0, Death and Taxes 2-0, and Junk/Rock 2-0. Semifinals went 2-0 over Junk/Rock again, and split with Death and Taxes. I didn't drop a single game.

The following was what I learned:

1. Stoneforge Mystic into Batterskull is format-defining. I'm not sure any 2-drop shapes this format more right now. It's what Counterbalance used to be. Batterskull won me so many games I can't even count, and the game I came the closest to losing was when Death and Taxes got on the better end of the Batterskull.

2. Sensei's Divining Top won me every game it hit. I've since cut both Duress from main and added a fourth Inquisition and a second Top.

3. Fetid Heath was a monster all night except for the one hand I had to mulligan where it and Wasteland were my only two lands. I think the right number is about 2.5 of them. I'm rounding up at current.

4. Mental Misstep is a godsend on the draw. Every Deadguy Ale player has had those hands where you get the discard spell, and the Hymn, and the Confidant, and you're just racing to stabilize because while you're trying to do all this, guys are hitting you in the face. Misstep makes you able to round that corner so much more efficiently.

5. Every time I saw a 1CMC Black discard spell in my hand, the best card it could have been for the situation was Inquisition of Kozilek. Every time.

6. My sideboard's pretty goofy. Not necessarily ineffective, but goofy. I'd probably change a couple cards up. Tidehollow Sculler, Ethersworn Canonist, Engineered Plague, and Phyrexian Unlife all saw no action all night, and I'd contemplate switching out any of them but the Canonist.

OH DAMNIT ITS FREAKING good to see a DGA-List that high rated. Very nice, good work, really, Im impressed, didnt expect my Archtype(the only Deck i got :P ) to be that good :)
Do you think to be experienced enough to turn my Vial-list in a aggro-comptetive Version? Cause when i play vs Control, im nearly as good as you are (9-1 vs TA 5-0 vs Supreme Blue) but Zoo ánd other aggros are just overrunning me. What would you change?

4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
2 Fetid Heath
3 Swamps
2 Plains

4 Aether Vial
1 Sword of FIre and Ice
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawas Jitte

4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Serra Avenger
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Jotun Grunt

4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Duress
2 Inquistion of Kozilek
2 Hymn to Tourach


Thank you very much for trying :)

Greetings

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Originally Posted by Philipp802

OH DAMNIT ITS FREAKING good to see a DGA-List that high rated. Very nice, good work, really, Im impressed, didnt expect my Archtype(the only Deck i got :P ) to be that good :)
Do you think to be experienced enough to turn my Vial-list in a aggro-comptetive Version? Cause when i play vs Control, im nearly as good as you are (9-1 vs TA 5-0 vs Supreme Blue) but Zoo ánd other aggros are just overrunning me. What would you change?

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It looks like crusader would be better served as a beater than grunt or avenger. Every creature in your list dies to bolt, path, stp, (except grunt) and you have very little to protect them outside of sof&i. It is my opinion that either mom or misstep will help out against targeted removal, and the crusader will help out against goyfs, nacatls, knights, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Philipp802

OH DAMNIT ITS FREAKING good to see a DGA-List that high rated. Very nice, good work, really, Im impressed, didnt expect my Archtype(the only Deck i got :P ) to be that good :)
Do you think to be experienced enough to turn my Vial-list in a aggro-comptetive Version? Cause when i play vs Control, im nearly as good as you are (9-1 vs TA 5-0 vs Supreme Blue) but Zoo ánd other aggros are just overrunning me. What would you change?

4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
2 Fetid Heath
3 Swamps
2 Plains

4 Aether Vial
1 Sword of FIre and Ice
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawas Jitte

4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Serra Avenger
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Jotun Grunt

4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Duress
2 Inquistion of Kozilek
2 Hymn to Tourach

Thank you very much for trying :)

Greetings

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Four major things, without going into too much analysis.

1. Jotun Grunt is the blows. Make him go away.

2. Mother of Runes is an absolute monster with both Dark Confidant and Stoneforge Mystic. I'd try to get a trio of them in at least. Equipment is very prone to fast removal that eats your tempo for breakfast, and Deadguy Ale is already one of the slower decks of its type in Legacy.

3. Your land count is dangerously light. Maybe not with the Vials, but I tend to err on the side of caution and want at least 20 lands in a deck like this.

4. If you're having the most trouble with aggro, just sell out and run four Inquisition of Kozilek instead of Duress (Keep a couple Duress around for board, though.).

So basically, I'm advising you to cut two cards and somehow add about five or six. Good stuff, no?

FWIW, I don't like Serra Avenger in Legacy. While I think the undercosted body is pretty neat and I appreciate the Vial synergy, I can't think of very many matchups at all where she actually shines compared to guys who are either huge or do stuff. That said, in your given list, she's probably pretty decent, so there you go.