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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
short report delayed one week by my vacation, LGS, 27 players:
Grimflames fullmoon UBer Storm
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Badlands
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Lotus Petal
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Ponder
1 Grim Tutor
3 preordain
2 Past in Flames
61
SB: 2 Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Lightning Bolt
SB: 1 Tropical Island
SB: 3 Xantid Swarm
SB: 2 Notion Thief
SB: 2 Young Pyromancer
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Teferi's Realm
15
decent player 1 UB Reanimator
G1 - dieroll lost, I expect tempo and keep slower solid hand, he starts Watery grave, take 2, study, bin Elesh Norn, I laugh inside and ponder, 2 turns later he has Elesh in play he, nothing in hand and nothing for life total, based upon the watery grave start I debate over naming Spell pierce instead of Fow with therapy but resist the idea succesfully discarding the later
-3x preordain, -island, -swamp, -thoughtseize, -duress, -probe, -pif, +karakas +2x chain of vapor, + pithing needle + tropical +3x xantid swarm +Notion Thief
G2 - I keep 7 feat. needle and karakas, I needle a Griselbrand, he has T2 Iona (naming black) via Study and T4 Angel for my Karakas binning Iona again, my poor combat math tells me 10 goblins and lifeloss from Reanimate are incompatible with life if he fails to find and reanimate Griselbrand in the 1 turn window...
poor player 2 monoB discard
hmmm, he met with elves R1, justifies random 1-0 I guess, dieroll lost
G1 - he mulls 6, starts swamp go / 14 Goblins go ... probe check shows card to beware is Funeral Charm, he doesn't try to mimic any outs like ratchet bomb, no charm used (haha)
-preordain -therapy +2x chain of vapor
G2 - he mulls 6, starts swamp go / 14 Goblins go ... probe check shows card to beware is Funeral Charm, he fails to draw 2. land and live the dream of any outs
unknown player 3 LED Dredge
foreign, came here for a GP, I remember him visiting for the same reason 2 years ago playing dredge (I traumaticaly lost g1 to not desideboarding and and g3 to mono Putrid Imp aggro racing mono Painter aggro), I finaly win the die roll knowing he is still on dredge beating UBR Ant last round:
G1 - he is looking for Bazaar mulling to 5 = casual 3 after probe+therapy on 2 LEDs, his hand doesn't have bazaar nor dredger but 3 draw spells which he loses next turns and dies shortafter not bricking on lands
+lightning bolt +2x chain of vapor, +pyroblast, -swamp, -preordain, - thoughtseize -therapy
G2 - he hesitantly keeps 7 with leyline of the void, doensn't appreciate how good it actually is against my list because his slow hand cannot compete with casual 14 goblins T2
Christian UBrg Ant (16 cantrip modified)
good player, he wants to split (only players with 3:0), I want to play, my build is much better prepared for the mirror, he has Dark Confidant in SB, I win the die roll:
G1 - T2 I have tough decision which to discard - IT / Ad Nauseam / accel .. I choose DR, if he draws a ritual I'm likely dead, fortunately he has to cantrip into one which buys me the turn to kill him on my 3rd before he could do so
+lightning bolt +pyroblast +2x Notion Thief, -island, - swamp, - preordain, -duress
G2 - I have strong hand, regulary check for problems and discard him to 0 cards at one point with therapies, Notion Thief runs most of the distance despite facing late Dark confidant and natural ToA seal the deal after tricking him not to block last turn that matters
4-0 (8-0) ~27 players = Bayou, the shopkeeper is low on U duals and adds 4th player prize instead of played Tundra for the 1st =/
to be honest GP side events were a different story, empty luckpool offered incredible 3+ land draw rows, poor BSs, unneccesary close games and 1 punt resulting into 1-4 score and ultimate disgust, all bitter loses 1-2 obv., crushing reanimator doesn't count to "awesome" evening, although Notion Thief run the distance again... limited GP do not offer trading opportunities for me but jap. LED and kor. Meditate finds offer some comfort
Young Pyromancer is unfortunately too slow, neither swing the pendulum enough nor provides enough time compared to resources spent, therefore is crap in the deck... Teferi's realm used for rogue points, I don't have an opinion yet, but prefer Pernicious deed (now missed without Bayou)
1, @Ivanpei you are destined to lose the long games with 7 fetches and 4 targets, I don't understand the logic behind Gemstone mine, I shortly tested and watched Ant with Gemstones numerous times, Gemstone mine is exactly the card you want to fetch away, stifleproofness and opps hesistant to waste the Mine are larger merrits for me than color pseudostability it provides, which you chose to reduce by running 2 islands. Also why run suboptimal 7 fetches? you reduce consistency, I'd happily run 10 but cannot go under 6 fetchable targets... gemstone mine is poor t1 land for Ant although best played early and overall poor topdeck
2, @Cabalpit - wtf? ok I'm open to rogue ideas, but I have to smell some sence behind it, disfigure, now cabal pit - why the hell would you want to play that? have you read that card? read that again... ok now read that again again... and imagine some real gameplay scenarios, now switch off superman mode... only, ONLY reasonable application is Cannonist in a blue deck... and so many conditions to use that... ehm...
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
You guys goldfish MD waaay too much. If you don't take your sideboard into account, it is a problem. Of course more fetches are great MD, but once you play postboard games when you consistently need green for Decay and Xantid, you will thank yourself for playing Gemstones. I'm also playing islands and a swamp, resistance to wasteland is fine. You can always sandbag gemstones the same way you sandbag duals. A T1 Gemstone is not ideal, but the 3 counter limit has not really affected me. Smart play and tapping the right lands can save your Mine from expiring. Having 4 fetchable is fine. Along with gemstones, 5-6 lands as max is totally fine. In the long game mana is usually not the issue.
Not running Decay in the Sideboard of Storm is wrong wrong wrong. It is the best anti Counterbalance and Chalice of the void card in existence. Not only does it take care of the 2 biggest threats to this deck, you can even board it in against hatebears. It does everything and not playing them in the board is bad. Your board totally folds to Counterbalance and Chalice @1.
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ivanpei
You guys goldfish MD waaay too much. If you don't take your sideboard into account, it is a problem. Of course more fetches are great MD, but once you play postboard games when you consistently need green for Decay and Xantid, you will thank yourself for playing Gemstones. I'm also playing islands and a swamp, resistance to wasteland is fine. You can always sandbag gemstones the same way you sandbag duals. A T1 Gemstone is not ideal, but the 3 counter limit has not really affected me. Smart play and tapping the right lands can save your Mine from expiring. Having 4 fetchable is fine. Along with gemstones, 5-6 lands as max is totally fine. In the long game mana is usually not the issue.
Not running Decay in the Sideboard of Storm is wrong wrong wrong. It is the best anti Counterbalance and Chalice of the void card in existence. Not only does it take care of the 2 biggest threats to this deck, you can even board it in against hatebears. It does everything and not playing them in the board is bad. Your board totally folds to Counterbalance and Chalice @1.
I agree, a mix between Fetches and Gemstones works best, I have not had a problem with mana with a spilt of 7 fetches, Tropical Island in the board, and two Gemstones.
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ivanpei
You guys goldfish MD waaay too much. If you don't take your sideboard into account, it is a problem. Of course more fetches are great MD, but once you play postboard games when you consistently need green for Decay and Xantid, you will thank yourself for playing Gemstones. I'm also playing islands and a swamp, resistance to wasteland is fine. You can always sandbag gemstones the same way you sandbag duals. A T1 Gemstone is not ideal, but the 3 counter limit has not really affected me. Smart play and tapping the right lands can save your Mine from expiring. Having 4 fetchable is fine. Along with gemstones, 5-6 lands as max is totally fine. In the long game mana is usually not the issue.
Not running Decay in the Sideboard of Storm is wrong wrong wrong. It is the best anti Counterbalance and Chalice of the void card in existence. Not only does it take care of the 2 biggest threats to this deck, you can even board it in against hatebears. It does everything and not playing them in the board is bad. Your board totally folds to Counterbalance and Chalice @1.
I dislike Decay, the prohibitive casting cost makes it unwanted option vs. hatebear decks and other options are more effective for me, I understand you try to make it less prohibitive but worsen your g1 for SB which is wrong imho, although the Decay is perfectly castable with trop+bayou setup I still do not like it, Chalice is not a thing I'm afraid of (decks that play that are pretty bad and underplayed = Tezzeret, Stax, Chalice Goblins or questionably good and underplayed - MUD, Cloudpost, R-stompy -which is obviously worst match-up possible; still you can kill through CoV, Golem, I killed a guy with Trinisphere once from 20 - funny thing he had Mindbreak trap in hand and could not cast it =D, it's totally luck based, like maverick) , CB is classic argument - current iterations are mostly associated with RiP which totally kills me so my plan is to dodge the match-up (usually 0-1 in my 20+ people LGS meta), only situation I really miss the Decay is Ethersworn Cannonist vs. blue based decks...
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
So you're saying that you don't want to run an out to the main lock of one of the most popular and powerful decks in the format because you can dodge the matchup? Pertaining to your meta, that's fine and good, but that's not a very convincing reason for the rest of us not to run the card.
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bjholmes3
So you're saying that you don't want to run an out to the main lock of one of the most popular and powerful decks in the format because you can dodge the matchup? Pertaining to your meta, that's fine and good, but that's not a very convincing reason for the rest of us not to run the card.
and I'm not trying to persuade you to abandon the card I'm defending my cardchoice, it's not good for me so it's usually not in my lists, that's all...
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sloshthedark
and I'm not trying to persuade you to abandon the card I'm defending my cardchoice, it's not good for me so it's usually not in my lists, that's all...
I agree with you that decay doesn't really belong in this deck. Against all of the decks where you want decay except for counterbalance, they have wasteland to punish you for splashing removal. Too often, I find them just rotting in my hand and wishing they were any other card, usually echoing truth or something. Against counterbalance, you're boarding in 2-3 cards to deal with their 4 of, which would be fine if they had no other way of interacting with you, but they have clique, force, pierce, flusterstorm, some blasts, counterspell, sensei's top floating a force, etc. I'd rather have discard against them and use it early to nab a counterbalance than board in a card that will probably just end up sitting in hand doing nothing.
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Nice read, Slosh. I was sad you hadn't time on Thu, but nvm, maybe we'll see each other this week. I think I'll finally take ANT, I'm quite disgusted with Thresh right now.
What about the GP, any remotely interesting experience?
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bjholmes3
Nice double gemstone, double swamp manabase/not. I see no reason to run gemstone mine over tropical island + bayou or change a swamp into a bayou and turn the mines into fetch + trop to save on sideboard space. Gemstone mine is super meh as an unfetchable land. And 2 swamps? Why would you ever need two swamps. Black fetch > second swamp. Your list is Prosak's list with a slightly different sideboard/nothing new.
The reason decay is in here is due to just counterbalance and other permanents out of miracles that they board like canonist and meddling mage. I think 3 is the right number, but it depends on how much miracles you expect. If the field is going to be miracles heavy I'd run 4. My only problem with decay is not hitting leylines and against decks with wasteland it becomes a lot worse/hatebears.dec and DnT especially when they can port you as well. And for it sucking with basic island and volcanic island.
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bed Decks Palyer
Nice read, Slosh. I was sad you hadn't time on Thu, but nvm, maybe we'll see each other this week. I think I'll finally take ANT, I'm quite disgusted with Thresh right now.
What about the GP, any remotely interesting experience?
Not much:
3 lands in opener, 4 lands drawn in a row, winning the game
merfolk player not finding single counterspell in the entire game, 2 standstills broken
Pithing needle on LED
Killing the Reanimator guy with Notion thief, no cards drawn, just aggro
Losing to 1 drop zoo without hate, winning the die roll
4/5 matches my opps were from our lgs
Not selling a single card
5 different animals met driving home :)
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sloshthedark
Not much:
Pithing needle on LED
Oh, the good ol' Pithing Needle naming LED.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sloshthedark
5 different animals met driving home :)
List?
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bed Decks Palyer
Oh, the good ol' Pithing Needle naming LED.
List?
and his mean brother Stifle your LED missed me by a seat next 8-man...
doe, jackrabbit, squirell, stray cat, marten... in that order
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Ritual
Nice double gemstone, double swamp manabase/not. I see no reason to run gemstone mine over tropical island + bayou or change a swamp into a bayou and turn the mines into fetch + trop to save on sideboard space. Gemstone mine is super meh as an unfetchable land. And 2 swamps? Why would you ever need two swamps. Black fetch > second swamp. Your list is Prosak's list with a slightly different sideboard/nothing new.
The reason decay is in here is due to just counterbalance and other permanents out of miracles that they board like canonist and meddling mage. I think 3 is the right number, but it depends on how much miracles you expect. If the field is going to be miracles heavy I'd run 4. My only problem with decay is not hitting leylines and against decks with wasteland it becomes a lot worse/hatebears.dec and DnT especially when they can port you as well. And for it sucking with basic island and volcanic island.
Oh dear, I meant 2 Island, 1 Swamp.
Also, forget you and your condescending remarks. This isn't a creativity contest, my list is similar to Prosack and Xu's lists because those are successful and proven builds. Everything in my deck has been proven by multiple pilots to be effective and powerful, even the 2 Gemstone Mines. They're my least favorite part of the deck, and the first I'll be changing, but don't you tell me that they don't work, because they do.
Also, neither Stifle nor Pithing Needle work on Lion's Eye Diamond, because it's a mana ability.
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
How many times have you had your working Gemstone mines stifled?
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
That can't be Stifled either
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bjholmes3
Oh dear, I meant 2 Island, 1 Swamp.
Also, forget you and your condescending remarks. This isn't a creativity contest, my list is similar to Prosack and Xu's lists because those are successful and proven builds. Everything in my deck has been proven by multiple pilots to be effective and powerful, even the 2 Gemstone Mines. They're my least favorite part of the deck, and the first I'll be changing, but don't you tell me that they don't work, because they do.
Also, neither Stifle nor Pithing Needle work on Lion's Eye Diamond, because it's a mana ability.
Thanks for saying stifle works on nothing in this deck except fetchlands and storm triggers. Anyone who knows what they're doing knows that same with pithing needle.
I know Jake Xu in real life, and he wouldn't be on storm combo if it wasn't for me so shut the fuck up. If it wasn't for me, he wouldn't have put up the result with ANT that he did at SCG Minneapolis. I'm not claiming all the credit for his essentially first place finish but at the same time he doesn't have all the credit either.
I love how you immediately contradict yourself by saying that gemstone mine works and that it's the first thing you'll be changing in the list just like I told you to do. Gemstone mine does not belong in storm combo outside of TES. How many doomsday fetchland tendrils lists run gemstone mine when that's 5 color? Oh right they run zero because the card is meant to be tapped for mana once for a cantrip, second time for the kill typically. We don't run silence or rite of flame, so I don't see how that card helps us more than running, say, another underground sea or getting more sideboard slots by running a tropical island or bayou over it so you don't have to run a land in your sideboard that isn't named karakas/having more precious sideboard slots to help out in games 2 and 3.
I love how you also said that your list was very similar to Prosaks list when it is Prosaks list card for card in the maindeck with a few sideboard changes for metagame consideration in all likelihood. We all know Prosak and his list as his list is common knowledge. Cutting and pasting his list with a few tiny sideboard changes doesn't make you remotely clever, just saying.
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
What is your problem? I'm not trying to be special or clever by showing off my "fancy original deck list". I'm posting the cards that I've been using so there is a point of reference for my opinion on cards and for my changes in the future. It doesn't matter that they're the same as anybody else's because creativity doesn't matter like results do, at least not to me. Last I checked, this was a forum for people to discuss ideas and the like, not for geniuses like you to throw around how awesome they fancy themselves to be and how unworthy players like me are, players who are just still learning, which is really the lot of us.
Nonetheless, I can respect your suggestions on the Mines, and I'll promptly make better adjustments to my mana base, but your opinion would've been much nicer to swallow without an aftertaste of dick.
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bjholmes3
That can't be Stifled either
Well, I know...
@rogueideals - I'm playing Bloodmoon in SB today...
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Played ANT at a local 50person tournament this weekend. Situation that occurred was the following, although details are a bit fuzzy.
My hand: Therapy + ritual, LED, infernal (basically enough to kill him)
Graveyard: 1 ponder, 1 preordain, 1 brainstorm, nothing else that is relevant.
Opponent's hand: Surgical, FoW, 1 unknown
I have a line where I can therapy his FoW, and kill him without going through PiF.
Therapy takes FoW, but reveals stifle as the unknown card. This means I need to go through PiF in order to win. I do not have enough mana to both cast PiF, flashback therapy, cast Infernal (which I assume he will take with surgical) to find tendrils and kill him. He ends up exiling my therapy when I cast PiF instead.
I need to find the following things
- Some ritual/mana as I do not have enough to cantrip + duress/therapy + tendrils
- Said duress of therapy
- Tendrils
The question I have is whether you start by flashbacking your cantrips first, relying on brainstorm to put back dead cards in case you ponder/preordain into nothing. Or do you go for infernal tutor first to find your singleton tendrils, but then cards like LED are dead if you find them with your cantrips.
I started by flashing back preordain and ponder, finding a land and a duress which took his stifle. I then needed to cast Infernal to find a LED, and then cast brainstorm hoping to find my tendrils in the top3 (which I did).
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sloshthedark
and his mean brother Stifle your LED missed me by a seat next 8-man...
Oh, the good ol' Stifle countering LED. Really a pro-only setting, I see. I'm glad I did not come...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sloshthedark
doe, jackrabbit, squirell, stray cat, marten... in that order
Pictures or didn't happen. Also, is there anything you'd change in this list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjholmes3
What is your problem? I'm not trying to be special or clever by showing off my "fancy original deck list". I'm posting the cards that I've been using so there is a point of reference for my opinion on cards and for my changes in the future. It doesn't matter that they're the same as anybody else's because creativity doesn't matter like results do, at least not to me. Last I checked, this was a forum for people to discuss ideas and the like, not for geniuses like you to throw around how awesome they fancy themselves to be and how unworthy players like me are, players who are just still learning, which is really the lot of us.
Nonetheless, I can respect your suggestions on the Mines, and I'll promptly make better adjustments to my mana base, but your opinion would've been much nicer to swallow without an aftertaste of dick.
Well written.
Martin, I wouldn't play Blood Moon. (If you were joking, consider me duped.) I know how amazing it can be against certain metas, but I fail to see how you wish to use it with a two-basic-only deck.
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PissedNumlock
My hand: Therapy + ritual, LED, infernal (basically enough to kill him)
Graveyard: 1 ponder, 1 preordain, 1 brainstorm, nothing else that is relevant.
The question I have is whether you start by flashbacking your cantrips first, relying on brainstorm to put back dead cards in case you ponder/preordain into nothing. Or do you go for infernal tutor first to find your singleton tendrils, but then cards like LED are dead if you find them with your cantrips.
depends how many cantrips (3) LEDs (?) and rituals (1?) are in gy and if you've played a land (how many fetches left) and which mana do you have left... usualy I'd start IT->LED, preordain, ponder , bs in vacuum... maybe preordain, bs, IT, ponder - without landrop, having UUBBB already
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bed Decks Palyer
Pictures or didn't happen. Also, is there anything you'd change in this list?
Martin, I wouldn't play Blood Moon. (If you were joking, consider me duped.) I know how amazing it can be against certain metas, but I fail to see how you wish to use it with a two-basic-only deck.
http://stlmeat.com/images/Pic1.jpg
...hmmm I know a badger lives by nearby hill...
no, Moon is serious idea, kills 1/3-1/2 of our lgs meta without pressure ... I just want to see those curious faces IT 3R floating and after =D ... you obv. kill with 3 spell warrens 30 turns later (dodging 3 fow)... for that fun 1 slot is ok
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Ritual
Thanks for saying stifle works on nothing in this deck except fetchlands and storm triggers. Anyone who knows what they're doing knows that same with pithing needle.
I know Jake Xu in real life, and he wouldn't be on storm combo if it wasn't for me so shut the fuck up. If it wasn't for me, he wouldn't have put up the result with ANT that he did at SCG Minneapolis. I'm not claiming all the credit for his essentially first place finish but at the same time he doesn't have all the credit either.
I love how you immediately contradict yourself by saying that gemstone mine works and that it's the first thing you'll be changing in the list just like I told you to do. Gemstone mine does not belong in storm combo outside of TES. How many doomsday fetchland tendrils lists run gemstone mine when that's 5 color? Oh right they run zero because the card is meant to be tapped for mana once for a cantrip, second time for the kill typically. We don't run silence or rite of flame, so I don't see how that card helps us more than running, say, another underground sea or getting more sideboard slots by running a tropical island or bayou over it so you don't have to run a land in your sideboard that isn't named karakas/having more precious sideboard slots to help out in games 2 and 3.
I love how you also said that your list was very similar to Prosaks list when it is Prosaks list card for card in the maindeck with a few sideboard changes for metagame consideration in all likelihood. We all know Prosak and his list as his list is common knowledge. Cutting and pasting his list with a few tiny sideboard changes doesn't make you remotely clever, just saying.
i was thinking the same the other day, ill try a bayou and a tropical over the 2 gemstones, these lands just help top reach threshold (and maybe red mana for past in flames or something), but meh, with all the cantrips you can reach it easily, the only thing that is keeping me away from the switch are my foil gemstones
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sloshthedark
no, Moon is serious idea, kills 1/3-1/2 of our lgs meta without pressure ... I just want to see those curious faces IT 3R floating and after =D ... you obv. kill with 3 spell warrens 30 turns later (dodging 3 fow)... for that fun 1 slot is ok
Yes, I understand that Moon stops most of the decks, but the problem is that you simply need to wait for your LPs and/or single Swamp and in the meantime they kill you with a random 2/2 green Boar token. I think you're once again too overripe and the whole Moon idea is very decadent. I'd much rather test City of Solitude, as it completely stops both spells and abilities, but sadly it's far too expensive...
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bed Decks Palyer
Yes, I understand that Moon stops most of the decks, but the problem is that you simply need to wait for your LPs and/or single Swamp and in the meantime they kill you with a random 2/2 green Boar token. I think you're once again too overripe and the whole Moon idea is very decadent. I'd much rather test City of Solitude, as it completely stops both spells and abilities, but sadly it's far too expensive...
unfortunately I was unable to attend yesterday... you misunderstand me (besides decadent idea), it's obviously meant for clear board, therefore no boar tokens ...although the boar matchu-up improves as more alpha lighting bolts are showing up
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sloshthedark
unfortunately I was unable to attend yesterday... you misunderstand me (besides decadent idea), it's obviously meant for clear board, therefore no boar tokens ...although the boar matchu-up improves as more alpha lighting bolts are showing up
So, can you share the main idea behind Moon? I understand that a 2nd turn DRit->Moon is pretty unexpected and quite devastating against the myriads of four-to-five controls that pester our lgs, otoh, I still can't see how you wanna win with a mere basic or two, unless you're sb-ing into some Dragon Stopmyesque Tendrils-aggro that miraculously draws the needed mana to play the buttloads of dorks outta sb.
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Honestly, its a gimmick. It may work, though. Might need to go in a deck a bit more dedicated to red (Rite of Flame would probably be a big help), but with the direction that ANT is going with the whole Ad Nauseam being dropped in favor of another PiF and Empty the warrens, I don't think it's a half-bad way to go, at least to test.
-ABC
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
There was a four-rounder in our lgs today, my list follows:
Qty Name
// Lands
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
//\\
// Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Infernal Tutor
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
3 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
//\\
// Sideboard
2 Chain of Vapor
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Virtue's Ruin
2 Disfigure
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Bayou
In retrospective I should have cut one of LDV (and maybe CT), move EtW to sb and use the two/three slots for Preordain. Nvm.
Round 1, Luke, GBW aggrocontrol
I won the die roll and kept a hand with a potential for massive discard and a few tokens. Unwilling to mull it, I kept the hand and went turn1 blind CT naming Thoughtseize, miss. I was hit by IoK (IT?) and on my trun2 I went Drit + EtW, flashback CT. Then I played Ponder, another CT, and for a while we exchanged some discard and stuff until I LDVed myself out of game from some twelve life when I was facing lethal.
sb: in some removal, out some discard
g2:I won with the PiF combo after I stripped his hand of irrelevant cards.
g3: Lost to Cannonist followed by Confidant. No removal drawn, of course.
Loss.
Round 2, Martin UGW aggrocontrol.
g1: I won the die roll and stripped BS of his five-cards keep. He played some 1/1 dorks and turn before I won, he topped Clique, sent away my IT and then Karakas sealed the game.
Loss.
Nice evening, indeed. Thank God, the dilemma seems to be solved. So ANT it won't be...
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
I have no clue what's the issue ... 2 tourneys in a Row :/
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
I have no clue what's the issue ... 2 tourneys in a Row :/
Issue is that I was given a sign from above and will sell the ANT.
And seriously, seeing that Clique was one of the most annoying moments in the whole 17 years I play MtG. Next time I'd rather enroll to a dice-roll olympiade than join another tournament...
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bed Decks Palyer
Issue is that I was given a sign from above and will sell the ANT.
And seriously, seeing that Clique was one of the most annoying moments in the whole 17 years I play MtG. Next time I'd rather enroll to a dice-roll olympiade than join another tournament...
Sign from above? Your opponent got lucky. It doesn't matter what deck you're playing if your opponent is a lucksack who rips what they need when they need it.
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bed Decks Palyer
Issue is that I was given a sign from above and will sell the ANT.
And seriously, seeing that Clique was one of the most annoying moments in the whole 17 years I play MtG. Next time I'd rather enroll to a dice-roll olympiade than join another tournament...
You should see some of the games I've played on stream where I got nutsacked all over my clever deck by a host of mediocre decks. That's the variance of MTG. Suck it up and learn to not internalize it. It's part of the game. Playing a combo deck will especially be brutal on that swings because the deck is so unforgiving compared to something like StoneBlade.
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
I joined Source to make an informed decission on which deck to keep. ANT is the first deck to go. And I say good riddance.
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
I will happily relieve you of your ANT deck, lol.
In the interest of helping you decide which deck to work with next, what is it about ANT that is not doing it for you? From the look of it, you are having consistency issues, and it sounds like from what you say it is not a piloting issue, just bad luck. Also, it looks like you pilot everything, from what I've seen around the forum, lol. You probably don't think so, but I would venture to say that that alone would greatly impact your success with the deck. But, your decision is your decision.
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Hi guys,
I'm currently testing:
Maindeck
4x Polluted Delta
3x Flooded Strand
3x Underground Sea
1x Volcanis Island
1x Tropical Island
2x Island
1x Swamp
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Ad Nauseam
1x Past in Flames
1x Grim Tutor
4x Infernal Tutor
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
4x Dark Ritual
4x Cabal Ritual
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
2x Preordain
4x Duress
3x Cabal Therapy
Sideboard
4x Dark Confidant
2x Xantid Swarm
3x Dread of Night
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Chain of Vapor
1x Karakas
It works great, and I'm happy to use my Grim Tutor again. I used to play some Burning Wish lists, but after a lot of debate I think that this list works better. I can now play a more diverse sideboard and feel more consistent! But when decks like Maverick were more popular I didn't want to loose to a turn 2 zenith for Teeg.
While testing I keep changing my sideboard. My last change was +3 Dread of Night and -2 Surgical Extraction -1 Slaughter Pact, because Mom + Thalia (and Mindcensor) were such a pain in the ass. However, I did some nasty stuff with Surgical vs Reanimate and it could even be played in the Mirror, so I'm not completely sure yet. Most of you will probably argue with me that Dark Confidant is not good enough, but I've won a lot of games vs decks like Shardless BUG on the back of Confidant, while their discard would otherwise destroy me. Confidant can also be played against Jund and Esper Blade, or some slower control decks. The fact that you can flashback Cabal Therapy is also a huge benefit in the turn you want to go off.
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bjholmes3
I will happily relieve you of your ANT deck, lol.
Sell threads/posts (moreover off topic) are not welcome here, so lets keep this for the PMs. :smile:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bjholmes3
In the interest of helping you decide which deck to work with next, what is it about ANT that is not doing it for you? From the look of it, you are having consistency issues, and it sounds like from what you say it is not a piloting issue, just bad luck.
Yep, true, at least to some degree.
I won't start about what's wrong about ANT as once I decided, there's no reason to poke in it anymore, except that not answering your question would be arrogant.
Basically it boils down to the fact that I feel like I've got enough of fighting through hate over and over again and losing to some random card been not some other random card, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bjholmes3
Also, it looks like you pilot everything, from what I've seen around the forum, lol.
Correct. :smile:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bjholmes3
You probably don't think so...
Incorrect. :tongue:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bjholmes3
...but I would venture to say that that alone would greatly impact your success with the deck.
Correct.
But normally I stay true to one deck for a longer period, at least several months, sometimes even more. (Speaking of ANT, I played it for one-and-a-half year in a row.)
Right now I play as many decks as possible to get an overall idea of what is keepable and what isn't, to start the trimming of cards some time towards the end of year. Also, sometimes I just play for fun, but sadly Terrageddon is completely obsolete and I keep it just for the nostalgia reasons.
So yes, I know this affects my results, otoh, I lack time to tinker with decks for years and the more I lose the better, at least it forces me to make some decission at all...
/off topic
I'm leaving the thread as there's nothing more for me to learn and there's nothing more than whinning that I may bring, so my pressence would be hardly wished for. I may peek one or two more times just in case, but unless something drastic happens, good bye, fellow Stormers. gl, hf! :cool::smile:
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
So I have an ignorant n00b question about this deck. I've played ANT for about 3 months now, trying to get my head wrapped around it and I'm doing pretty well with it at this point. I decided to take some time to give TES a try as well, and it's just so much less reliable, and way clunkier. I know it's more explosive, but I couldn't bring myself to keep playing it. However, the one thing I really liked about it over ANT was the choice of Silence over some of the discard. My meta has a not insignificant amount of Show and Tell variants, all of which run Leyline of Sanctity, and Silence is SOOOO much better at helping you beat leyline than Xantid Swarm or any of the other options (especially since you get to play silences maindeck and you can still bring in swarms if you want, you have fewer bricks in your hand games 2 and 3 if they open on leyline).
I find myself wondering why there isn't a version of ANT that plays Silence instead of discard. I mocked it up and goldfished quite a bit, and while you take a little more damage from your lands (due to unfortunately having to run city of brass), it really didn't feel like I had that much trouble with my manabase, even allowing for wastelands at times. I chose to play 4 City of Brass and 0 Gemstone Mine because of all the cantripping, I prefer to have my lands not die, but that could easily be adjusted to some split, if necessary, the rest of my manabase was 2 Underground, 1 Volcanic, 1 Trop, 1 Tundra, 6 blue duals. (total of 15 lands). I took a standard ANT list, trimmed 1 preordain, and ran 4 Silence, 2 Duress, 1 Cabal Therapy.
This idea seems so obvious to me that I can only assume someone else has tried it and it hasn't been successful. Silence just seems so much better to me than discard in a lot of matchups, for reasons I'm pretty sure I don't need to lay out here. Can someone explain to me why this is a bad idea, if it is?
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jeff
So I have an ignorant n00b question about this deck. I've played ANT for about 3 months now, trying to get my head wrapped around it and I'm doing pretty well with it at this point. I decided to take some time to give TES a try as well, and it's just so much less reliable, and way clunkier. I know it's more explosive, but I couldn't bring myself to keep playing it. However, the one thing I really liked about it over ANT was the choice of Silence over some of the discard. My meta has a not insignificant amount of Show and Tell variants, all of which run Leyline of Sanctity, and Silence is SOOOO much better at helping you beat leyline than Xantid Swarm or any of the other options (especially since you get to play silences maindeck and you can still bring in swarms if you want, you have fewer bricks in your hand games 2 and 3 if they open on leyline).
I find myself wondering why there isn't a version of ANT that plays Silence instead of discard. I mocked it up and goldfished quite a bit, and while you take a little more damage from your lands (due to unfortunately having to run city of brass), it really didn't feel like I had that much trouble with my manabase, even allowing for wastelands at times. I chose to play 4 City of Brass and 0 Gemstone Mine because of all the cantripping, I prefer to have my lands not die, but that could easily be adjusted to some split, if necessary, the rest of my manabase was 2 Underground, 1 Volcanic, 1 Trop, 1 Tundra, 6 blue duals. (total of 15 lands). I took a standard ANT list, trimmed 1 preordain, and ran 4 Silence, 2 Duress, 1 Cabal Therapy.
This idea seems so obvious to me that I can only assume someone else has tried it and it hasn't been successful. Silence just seems so much better to me than discard in a lot of matchups, for reasons I'm pretty sure I don't need to lay out here. Can someone explain to me why this is a bad idea, if it is?
There is some development of silence within this thread, I suggest you skim from the beginning to find it. the manabase at that point becomes kind of obnoxious and you may as well be playing doomsday or TES at that point. i don't quite understand how you have come to the conclusion that silence is better since show and tell places a xantid swarm into play for free alot of the time and silence costs a mana on your combo turn( and can still be countered). with show and tell they just gave you an uncounterable silence effect. and the mana you saved can now be spent chaining the leyline back to their hand so you can win.
also cutting fetches is pretty rough they are one of your best filtering tools for card selection. with no fetches you as well just play more rainbow lands and play TES
Honestly i have not played within the past 6 months much so the new show and tell mono blue dream halls decks may be a bit harder since when they resolve show and tell they win. so i am not so sure how that one plays out.
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
I agree, adding a fifth color to ANT seems counterintuitive. One of ANT's strengths, compared to other storm combo decks, is it's manabase. By not splashing in the fifth color you get to play with basics and more fetch lands, which are really good with Ponders and Brainstorms. Also, having less colors means your digging for straight combo pieces and disruption, and not wasting time looking to fix mana. Consider the following opener:
Dark Ritual, Ponder, Polluted Delta, Lion's Eye Diamond, Duress, Infernal Tutor, Preordain.
Assume you are on the play. This hand seems very keepable. It has ever element that you want, business spell, protection, acceleration. With this hand, my goal would be to cantrip turn one getting Underground Sea. Duress cantrip turn two, which gives me perfect information and allows me to cantrip into exactly what I need. Assuming there is no more protection needed, I can look for more rituals to Past in Flames or go for an Ad Nauseam if the second turn cantrip doesn't show any extra mana sources to combo.
Now, take the same hand into consideration replacing Duress with Silence. Instead of getting an Underground Sea and molding your hands as you want and disrupting while protecting, you would have to be looking for the proper mana to go off and protect. This hand has a 26.4% chance to draw a land on your first draw step, 27.4% on turn 2 if you reshuffle with your cantrips and don't draw a land. This means you're probably shuffling away cards that you would normally want with Duress or Cabal Therapy. Also, since we do not have access to Chrome Mox, our combo will become slower because you need an extra mana to go off the turn that you do. Another point to keep in consideration is if we were to start replacing any fetch lands with more rainbow lands, our graveyard will fill up slower, which can and will be relevant.
The more you try to incorporate silence into ANT the more it will turn into TES. Stick with which ever you seem more fond of playing and accept that neither decks does everything better than the previous one.
The reason you like Silence better against Show and Tell versus discard is simple, TES is better against combo decks than ANT. The fact that you have a superior combo protector and disruption spell and you clock them a whole turn faster, gives them less time to dig for both combo pieces and disruption and protection spells on their end. I just picked up ANT but played TES for quite some time, and I was always impressed with the combo matchup while piloting TES. I haven't gotten to play in a big tournament with ANT yet , but my assumption that TES being better versus combo seems logical.
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Re: [DTB] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jeff
So I have an ignorant n00b question about this deck. I've played ANT for about 3 months now, trying to get my head wrapped around it and I'm doing pretty well with it at this point. I decided to take some time to give TES a try as well, and it's just so much less reliable, and way clunkier. I know it's more explosive, but I couldn't bring myself to keep playing it. However, the one thing I really liked about it over ANT was the choice of Silence over some of the discard. My meta has a not insignificant amount of Show and Tell variants, all of which run Leyline of Sanctity, and Silence is SOOOO much better at helping you beat leyline than Xantid Swarm or any of the other options (especially since you get to play silences maindeck and you can still bring in swarms if you want, you have fewer bricks in your hand games 2 and 3 if they open on leyline).
I find myself wondering why there isn't a version of ANT that plays Silence instead of discard. I mocked it up and goldfished quite a bit, and while you take a little more damage from your lands (due to unfortunately having to run city of brass), it really didn't feel like I had that much trouble with my manabase, even allowing for wastelands at times. I chose to play 4 City of Brass and 0 Gemstone Mine because of all the cantripping, I prefer to have my lands not die, but that could easily be adjusted to some split, if necessary, the rest of my manabase was 2 Underground, 1 Volcanic, 1 Trop, 1 Tundra, 6 blue duals. (total of 15 lands). I took a standard ANT list, trimmed 1 preordain, and ran 4 Silence, 2 Duress, 1 Cabal Therapy.
This idea seems so obvious to me that I can only assume someone else has tried it and it hasn't been successful. Silence just seems so much better to me than discard in a lot of matchups, for reasons I'm pretty sure I don't need to lay out here. Can someone explain to me why this is a bad idea, if it is?
It is possible, but Iggy is unreliable engine and PiF would be a bit unstable (maybe ok with one Volc), besides "stable manabase" the all in one color is much bigger stability factor TES does not have (you have to play weird sequence of Silence, RoF, DR sometimes) ... again rainbow lands is not way to go... tundra+scrubland and W SB seems kind of ok, I tried splahing W before (for sb Grand Abolisher which is insane, while SS heavily underplayed) but disliked the Silence and white lands just for sb are not worth it. I don't see silence as better vs. Show and Tell, it's better vs S&T with LoS in play a year ago seeing LoS used to be sign of bad player for me... Swarm is FoW or die and dodges SP, Silence doesn't stop their combo, Leyline inself makes their keeps much weaker, if they don't have it you rip them apart with discard, if they do you have time, if they have combo, LoS and countermagic it's acceptable loss and still their is a good habit of having some bounce in SB... btw. Dark Confidant used to be great with S&T w LoS, other options are available - Needle, Karakas, Pyroblast...
