Wait, what?Quote:
Originally Posted by RexFTW
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Wait, what?Quote:
Originally Posted by RexFTW
If mage was good, we would have realized it. Doesn't the fact that you thought of it almost immediately imply to you that we thought of it and dismissed it? In fact, even if you're not willing to have this minimum level of faith in our not being braindead, I think there are still remnants of evidence in our old thread suggesting we've thought about it and dismissed it. Here's why:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Removal is diverse: Mage used to be able to keep out THE lone removal spell when people came with just 4 snuff out, just 4 smother, or w/e. Even then it was kind of bad because people also came with lightning bolt AND fire ice. Also, it only rarely stop swords, since we run it too.
It was good against ANT, but that was about it. It just ate removal all day, and good lightning rods cost W; if it costs 2, it definitely needs to replace itself. (See knight, for instance) or it needs to be broken and not burnable. (See, for instance, grunt)
Court hussar was much better because it at least replaced itself before biting the dust. And court hussar is only a runner-up to our list right now, since spell pierce has shown itself to be reasonable.
Today, mage eats all kinds of removal. Path to exile is here, zoo is much bigger than it was before, team america and sui black variants are almost nowhere to be found...
What would you cut? And why would you cut anything? I dunno, whenever Matt and I pull lists off the internet, unless there are obvious strict improvements, we don't change the lists because we assume that the creators knew something we don't. But it seems like you're not willing to extend us that courtesy, so try the mage and see how it goes. Unless your meta is like 100% TES you'll be sorry you wasted your time.
It is not even that. If a person lands a Meddling Mage, then he/she is hesitant to attack/block with it. The only creature that is hesitant to attack in the entire list is Mother of Runes, as Weathered Wayfarer makes a great attacker/blocker after he has done his job. Other than Mother and Serra Avenger (who are opposite in this respect), all the creatures do something, THEN are able to attack and/or block. Meddling Mage does something, but for it to still have an impact on the game, it cannot die, which makes attacking/blocking with it difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by pi4meterftw
I've personally always hated NoGoyf (the name) as 'No' can also stand for Natural Order.
+1 to Land Hax -> leagues better.
Now, if we had more 187's in this deck I'd say that Reveillark as a one-of might be tech.
Meekstone seems like a good idea in a Goyftastic meta (Goyftastic being my word), but it's not stopping much else. Merfolk can easily play around it.
Mistmeadow Skulk might be worth a look-see, as would anything with Shadow that's marginally efficient. Also, Auriok Champion might help you out.
Incidentally, I talked to Aaron Wayne (the guy piloting NoGoyf/Land Hax at the last tournament).
He pretty much just picked it up, though, and so some mistakes were inevitable. He was apparently not splitting Grunt triggers the entire night as well as making a few other mistakes consistently. He said something about thinking Cumulative Upkeep was exponential, which would make Grunt very hard to use. (I think he thought it took 2, then 4, then 8 cards, requiring all from the same yard).
He sounds like an extremely good pilot other than some unfamiliarity with the deck (and a nice guy). I wouldn't recommend just picking up a deck and rolling with it if you're an average pilot (although it seems to be working for him, he's now in the lead in Star City Games points).
I talked to him about posting a tournament report/his thoughts. He said he'd never written one before, but maybe I can talk him into saying a few words.
As a semi-spoiler, on the swiss, he beat: Natural Order Bant (2-0), Countertop (2-0), Survival (2-0), ANT (2-1), Imperial Painter (2-0), and drew against Merfolk (ID) and Aggro Loam (1-1).
Also, the Too Much Information is out, so it can be confirmed he was the only person piloting it at Dallas. NoGoyf's combined tournament record in SCG 5ks is 11-0-4 on the Swiss, and 1-2-0 in top 8 play. It has only seen play twice and has two top 8s. Swiss games it's 23-4 and top 8 games it's 4-4. I think that's pretty good. We're all waiting on a larger sample size, but I think it's fair to assume that so far NoGoyf has risen to my high expectations for it.
To the creators:
What is the best option for dealing with EE or chalice @ 1?
1) Counter it/don't walk into it (it's easy to tell the decks that have EE).
2) Be on the play and just cast any 1cc, counter it on the draw, and generally board to avoid 1cc against decks you think will have it.
Those two cards are definitely I'd guess you'd say "problematic," but the decks that run them generally don't have many other scare cards.
Basically if you end up eating a 2:1, 3:1 or even 4:1, you can still win the game against those decks (and certainly have a high matchup percentage because they'll only open with a Chalice @ 1 like 30% of the time, and you have to be on the draw really to care).
The only other "problematic" card that I see is progenitus via natural order or show and tell. Meekstone is probably the best answer! Or meddling mage.
Wow. Meekstone.. Thats a dam good idea. The biggest creatures are Grunt and Avenger but you only run 2 Grunt and they don't usually last more than 3 turns anyway while avenger doesn't even tap so it avoids meekstone entirely. Grunt is really the only disynergy. It would improve matchups like zoo where everything but kird ape is like a 3/3 nactl, 4/5 goyfs, 6/6 KoTR's, etc. It would also be great against merfolk and elves because they play lots of lords. It would probably be weak against goblins as they play far fewer lords. It does answer Prog. like RexFTW mentioned, which is pretty sick, as it also answers reanimator creatures that don't have vigilance (most builds I have seen run only 1 or 2 vigilance creatures those being Sphinx and Akroma). Worth testing?Quote:
The only other "problematic" card that I see is progenitus via natural order or show and tell. Meekstone is probably the best answer! Or meddling mage.
I don't like meddling mage as an answer for combo anymore. Its too easy to hate and can block nothing in the format short of lackey without you losing him. Runed halo is far better and can answer Tendrils against ANT, etc.
Meekstone is completely dead in a ton of matchups.
Ichorid, ANT, Landstill, the mirror, Goblins, Elves, Enchantress.... That makes it a sideboard card.
But even when it's not dead, it's not even good. For instance: Zoo it doesn't counter Nacatls and Goyfs, it just turns them into Lightning Bolts and Fireblasts when it's working optimally. And for Nacatl, we'd probably have to decide not to waste them or else they could just untap with a 2/2 Nacatl and then reswing. One goal is to color screw them. If we succeed with that, they get their 2/2 beaters back. Doesn't seem good since we have to use a card just to put them in that position.
There's no way in hell I'd board it in against Zoo. I'd rather have Blessed Wine. It only turns Goyf into Fireblast, Nacatl into something between a Lightning Bolt and an unaffected Nacatl, doesn't affect Kird Ape, Lavamancer, or Qasali Pridemage (which could also be sacced to kill Meekstone).
Maybe I'm missing something, but my first reaction is: Holy sweet jesus that card is shit.
The idea with meekstone is to let them tap down then play it. Block with mother or something first then drop a meekstone as a surprise tactic!
Seems good vs thresh where it stops everything they have or vs merfolk once they have dropped several lords.
At first: I LOVE this decklist..
But.. I pretty hard got owned by BGw Loam.. was it me or is it truely that nasty?
Also, I've got problems with boarding stuff out. Usaly I know what to throw in.. but the worse part for me (has always been and will always be.....) boarding out.
Any 'basic' about that with this list?
Ruining their non-basics is fine.. screwing their fetch might be awesome, so maybe stifle to think about?
And last but not least: sower of temptation side..? With Mother ánd countermagic backup, sower should seal the deal with a vew turns, stealing a goyf/tombstalker/'nought/regenerated angel/*insert random fatty*..
I have a pet peeve: when people list the effect of two cards side by side and pretend they have synergy. Mother stops you from taking the damage, and then meekstone keeps the creature tapped. If you didn't have mother, then the creature would be tapped (presumably, although not really cause meekstone sucks) and if you didn't have the meekstone then you get to not take the damage. I don't see how the sum of effects is worse than the effect of the sum.Quote:
Originally Posted by RexFTW
The other peeve we have is people making suggestions without studying the deck. We're not asking you to invest a year of magic playing into the deck like we did, but unless you sit on it for a few weeks, maybe even months, you're not going to hit anything worth thinking about, unless you do so randomly, but then we won't be reading the posts so it won't matter if you do. I mean we read them now, but if I see another few suggestions of this sort I'm just going to start ignoring them. We've been optimizing this list for years. Even if you were as good or even better at building decks, you're not going to catch up in less than a year, and it might take you longer since we put both of our heads to it and we're good at what we do.
What we do encourage is posting "horror" stories where you lost even though we reported like a 60% matchup. You should keep in mind that even 90% matchups by definition will be lost 10% of the time. I'm surprised that BGW loam "Trashed" you though. But I can't tell you what you did wrong unless you post more details. Can't you just win because we're nogoyf, and then on top of that, they even play a strategy that is land hungry? This is obviously addressed at the last post. Also addressed at the last post is: please read the thread before asking questions, I posted a HUGE list for sideboarding, and if you follow it exactly you won't get screwed over. If you use it as a guideline and are highly knowledgeable about the list, then even better.
Wind Zendikon u
(C)
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Land
Enchanted Land is a 2/2 Blue Elemental Creature with flying. It's still a land.
Whenever enchanted land is put into a graveyard, return it to it's owner's hand.
46/145
Way to reuse Wasteland. Useful?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil Credo
Wanna guess if I am happy? 'Cause the answer is, I'M NOT. My patience for this thread and its visitors is officially OVER, and should have been LONG ago.
From now on, this is Sunshine-And-Ponies Zone: EVERY single goddamn comment that is
1) ANYTHING LESS than impossibly polite and respectful. I'm talking diplomatic-dinner-at-Buckingham-Palace-polite
or
2) that in ANY WAY impugns another poster's penis size, mother's profession, intelligence, personality, or skill at Magic
or
3) that gives off even the SLIGHTEST vibe of sarcasm, cynicism, or derision
or
4) that attempts to answer in kind to a post of the 1, 2, or 3 type, instead of using the REPORT POST button
gets you, at a MINIMUM, a FULL WARNING for EACH such post, with all that this entails for those of you who have already collected some. More egregious behaviour will directly get tempa- or perma-bans.
Furthermore, every time I or another staff member have to write in red in this thread, it gets locked for a WEEK.
Finally, the *same rules* apply to any PM you write about the deck or about people in this thread.
Now get on with your fucking life.
Considering how often this deck bounces its lands, probably not. It really needs the Genju text (return the enchantment) to get around that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus
However, even if it returned both itself and the land, I can't see this deck efficiently Wastelocking anybody. In most cases, it seems better to just find another Wasteland with Wayfarer since you thin your deck that way while using the deck's (barely) dominant color to do so. Leaving the Wayfarer untapped by using the Aura seems weak since Wayfarer is such a bad attacker, and you're not really down a card in the same way by finding another Wasteland as you are by intentionally exploding the Aura when you sacrifice Wasteland.
I'm not much a fan of Wind Zendikon either. I'd rather splash green for Loam to wastelock (splashing for a 3rd color is possible). With green, perhaps picking up Knight of the Reliquary to compliment Wayfarer might be useful (I won't suggest the anti-namesake; although it tested fine).
If I wanted to concentrate on the Wastelock without adding green, going to the 4th Wasteland (which is what I've chosen to do in my build) seems like a good idea. A singleton Rishadan Port could be decent, especially as Wayfarer can tutor it up nicely. Obviously, Port isn't so amazing when you are sitting at the 1-land softlock position. However, going into the mid-game, there are situations where Port can be powerful.
peace,
4eak
Did you drop a spell for the fourth Wasteland? How stable was your mana with four colorless producers?Quote:
Originally Posted by 4eak
More stable, imho. I run 1-extra land.Quote:
Did you drop a spell for the fourth Wasteland? How stable was your mana with four colorless producers?
-2 Spell Pierce
+1 Daze
+1 Wasteland
While I'm a huge fan of spell pierce, I don't think pierce is as strong as plain Daze/Wasteland in the main. Daze is exceedingly useful in this deck beyond its synergy with wasteland, as it obviously has synergy with Wayfarer (the money-maker). I think spell pierce would make a very strong sideboard card for several matches though.
peace,
4eak