Which list are you referring to?
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Which list are you referring to?
Well with seeing Temporal Mastery I was pondering a new build and what cuts would be made, how many to run, etc. Curently going to say 2, and that 3 would be a lot and becomes too reliant on multiple brainstorms, seeing it on top with ponders, Snapcaster Brainstorms, and having Jace going for multiples in a row or something. Although it could be great as a 3 of, more testing to do still.
What have you guys thought?
Thanks Fade for the Youtube video about Esper Blade with Bernie Wen and Mark Sun, and that is the deck that I started my first testing of this deck with. I am from the Columbus area and know Mark Sun (Hey if you read this forum much) playing in Columbus Ohio area, CTown, and SCG locals etc. I think this deck is well suited for most of the decks that get played in the meta now.
Playing more of a mid-range Aggro Control with counters for more of a protection than: I am going to counter all your spells and you wont have anything, because that doesn't work. But with Discard, Counters, Removal and good win conditions like Flying Tokens with Jitte, + Jace, & Batterskull. It seems to be well rounded out as a deck.
Then because you usually play more games Sideboard than you do Main deck, or at least half if you are that amazing. The Esper color combo gives great access to meta hate cards right now.
New List - based off of list from previous page I posted.
Any advice appreciated to variations in builds.
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughseize
2 Ponder (is it possible this should be a 3-4 of now with TM ?)
3 Lingering Souls
1 Vindicate
2 Temporal Mastery (3)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Force of Will
1 Counterspell
1 Intuition
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Riptide Laboratory (Because I am taking Karakas out with Vclique)
SB- changes depending on where I am but last week I played and currently like~
1 Force of Will
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm (maybe 2 for heavy combo meta)
1 Vindicate
1 Perish
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Zealous Persecution (also kills empty the warrens, elves, mom, thalia, hierarch, scryb etc)
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Path to Exile
I am not sure if Temporal Mastery is Correct for this deck but I think with the proper Engine of Brainstorm and Jace to back it up in consistency and FOW pitch if it is a dead Card unfortunately. If this deck can abuse this card then we can aid the problem of being a slower control deck and making more land drops, drawing more cards, making our probability of brainstorm Jace and ponder see the right cards when we need them and get that extra needed setup turn that sometimes you just don't have when someone is bashing you in the face with fast aggro and you are just barely behind ;x
ops forgot link.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
http://www.decklists.net/index.php?o...k&deckId=13266
this one.
Assuming a stock list, what are the common ins/outs for the common matchups (sneak, mirror, mav, rug, etc)? I don't have a huge amount of experience with the deck and was wondering what everyone's "typical" board plans were.
Haven't searched that much, but I have some ideas for this deck. Venser, the Sojourner? Tombstalker? Phantasmal Image out of the board vs. Reanimator/Sneak Show? I seriously doubt I am the first to come up with this stuff.
I tested Lingering Souls by itself, with Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, and Sorin by himself. I don't think any of those are what this deck wants to be doing. Just my opinion. Maybe in the right matchup they could be OK, but... that's it. OK. I run Vendetta and Tombstalker in their place, I've found I want more critter removal sometimes. Other times I want more counterspells, or bigger threats.
Ive just started morphing over to Esper with a list inspired by, but not exactly the same as Martell's.
In the list above, I think I'd prefer a Wasteland instead of a Riptide. Riptide is very controlly, and It can be good in a long grinding match, I think that is at odds with the increased aggressiveness of the Esper build (mostly in the form of discard, but also the Lingering Souls, if you're running them). Wasteland can kill problematic lands like Tower of the Magistrate, Maze of Ith, or Grove of the Burnswillows. On the other hand, a singleton Wasteland may not offer enough consistency.
Alternatively, depending on your meta, Tower of the Magistrate might be good.
I watched a couple of Bernal's games. Bob did some heavy lifting for him, but overall I thought the deck was not focused enough. Two SFM seems like too few, I felt the Cabal Therapies were not all that great, and diluted the the Lingering Souls+Jitte plan. I also don't like the no counter plan. He wasn't able to handle a grinding match very well, literally losing Game 3 to his own Bitterblossom, and Maverick is a real deck that is going to cause grinders (Bernal's list, and I daresay all Stoneblade lists, cannot utilize tempo as efficiently as RUG Delver, and shouldn't try).
I think Rubin's list (linked above) is more promising. The discard is the most valuable thing Esper has above UW, I think. The Lingering Souls can be explosive, but now everyone else is ready for them via the likes of Sulfur Elemental, and Dread of Night. You have to be ready to board them out if you're playing against a deck that can bring that hate to bear. Or, you can eschew LS in the first place and just go with the discard and sideboard hate that black brings.
I'm a big fan of Geist of St. Traft, so if I found myself packing 3 Vedilion Cliques, at least one of those would be a Geist instead. Sometimes it's good to just have a beater who is immune to removal and can close things out, especially if you're playing a sword main instead of a Jitte.
Hi all.
I’ve been testing Joe Bernal’s list that top 8’ed in the past SCG event and tweaked it to my liking. For reference, here is my list:
2 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
3 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Bitterblossom
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Chrome Mox
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lingering Souls
1 Mortarpod
2 Ponder
2 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Thoughtseize
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Vindicate
1 Zealous Persecution
The main difference from my list and his are the use of Confidants over Snapcaster Mage. His deck is basically Dead Guy Ale that splashes blue for draw and Jace. I’ve omitted Jace in favor of more discard and a Vindicate to answer other threats and most of all, Planeswalkers. The deck plays nicely and will clutter the board with lots of tokens to chump any creature w/o protection but mostly has a hard time connecting at least once with an equipment attached to it. A recurring Darkblast killed my side as the equipped creature never got to connect. It is strong against control since Cabal Therapy + Gitaxian Probe assures that we won’t miss but with the token generation, we will not have any problems with Therapy fodder. Lastly, as you see I put Mortarpod in place of Sword.xx is a meta call. I expect lots of x.1 crits running around which could help a lot.
A few things:
1) Should I put in Batterskull for added muscle?
2) Is Jace really needed? I plan to take out 1 Blossom and 1 Snap for either 2 Jace TMS, 1 Eslpeth and Sorin or either of the 2 as a 2 of.
3) Other than the endless tokens that can hold equipment, what is the advantage of the token version compared to Tom Martell’s list that uses a UW blade shell with the addition of Lingering Souls and a couple of discard? I plan to use this in an upcoming event and haven’t decided what version to play. Thanks in advance!
I've been toying with this list as something sort of like your list, and on the other hand something like Martel's. Its crazy in legacy how many choices there are and it was hard to me to choose what to cut for certain cards I wanted to play, like bitterblossom. Ultimately, snapcasters got the cut because I didn't want to play less Jace's, and because I didn't have enough fuel for them. And... Jace seems good with a lot of tokens? A lot of chump blockers helps ensure he can brainstorm over and over without having to bounce things, which is cool.
Things I'd maybe like to play - spell pierce, discard, a vindicate, snapcasters (but they take some work)...
4 bitterblossom
4 stoneforge mystic
3 vendillion clique
4 lingering souls
1 batterskull
1 umezawa's jitte
4 swords to plowshares
4 force of will
4 spell snare
4 brainstorm
2 ponder
3 jace the mindsculptor
2 island
1 plains
1 scrubland
4 tundra
2 underground sea
4 polluted delta
4 flooded strand
1 marsh flats
3 wasteland
You need discard. Discard is one of the strongest components that black adds to the Stoneblade equation.Quote:
Originally Posted by rchinnock
yeah, i was thinking that. It was either discard or more counters. But that does seem like it might be the right call. Maybe -3 spell snare, -1 force of will, +2 inquisition +2 thoughtseize, like Martel's list? I don't know though - counters do have their own kind of advantage that discard doesn't have, and I'm not sure you can fit both. Discard is more direct in some ways than something like spell snare, but counters give you a tempo advantage which can be cool. Force is free, AND makes them cast the spell. inquisition is not free, even though it is cheap, but then even again they also never have to cast the spell. Same goes with snare vs discard. Also no discard means you are less dependent upon black mana.
Permission is not necessarily a tempo gain, if you consider the number of plays you don't make so you can leave mana up. I suspect this is why tempo-oriented decks like Canadian Thresh rely heavily on free counters like FoW and Daze.Quote:
Originally Posted by rchinnock
But yes, there is an interesting tension between permission-based control and disruption-based control. One thing to consider is that right now, disruption is cheaper. Inquisition is almost like a hard counter, since it can grab most problematic cards in Legacy, and Thoughtseize can grab almost everything (except lands, which can't be countered anyway). Meanwhile, blue's 1cc counters are all much more conditional: Spell Pierce can't hit creatures and becomes increasingly irrelevant over time; Spell Snare's limits are obvious.
And now there's this Cavern of Souls, which probably won't see wide play in Legacy, but who knows?
Played Esperstone Blade with Maindeck Bitterblossoms rather than the conventional one with Snaps and SFM splash black in a recently concluded tourney in the Philippines. Total players were 107. Figured I could grind out the games and dodge the hate being thrown at Mav decks (white hate you know). Details are as follows:
My list for reference:
2 SNAPCASTER MAGE
3 STONEFORGE MYSTIC
1 BATTERSKULL
4 BITTERBLOSSOM
4 BRAINSTORM
1 CABAL THERAPY
3 FORCE OF WILL
2 INQUISITION OF KOZILEK
1 INTUITION
2 JACE, THE MIND SCULPTOR
3 LINGERING SOULS
2 PONDER
2 SPELL PIERCE
1 SPELL SNARE
4 SWORDS TO PLOWSHARES
2 UMEZAWA'S JITTE
1 ACADEMY RUINS
2 CHROME MOX
2 FLOODED STRAND
2 ISLAND
1 MARSH FLATS
1 PLAINS
3 POLLUTED DELTA
1 SCRUBLAND
1 SWAMP
3 TUNDRA
3 UNDERGROUND SEA
3 WASTELAND
Round 1: Osmond Go with Thopter Combo
G1: I amass a number of Spirit tokens vial Lingering Souls but he counters with a Vedalken Shackles with Humilty on the board eating away my tokens 2 at a time. I conceded to save time.
G2: He got overrun with Fae and Spirit Tokens.
G3: I opened with Inquisition on Ensnaring Bridge. Critical play: I see that he has not enough gas to race me so I opted to Surgical the brainstorms instead of the Ennaring Bridge. We went to the last 5 turns and he was down to one and top decked the other Bridge that I can't do anything about. Game ended on a draw.
0-0-1
Round 2: Esperblade Mirror (Tom Martell's list)
G1: We played Draw Go for sometime and he reveals that he is also playing Esper Stoneblade like me. I eventually got overran by spirits wielding a Batterskull.
G2: We boarded in almost the same and reached a stalemate for a time. A Batterskull for his and a Jitte for my Jitte. He eventually hits his Souls and won from there.
0-1-1
Round 3: MBC
G1: He casts a bunch of Vampires and a Hexmage. I luckily called a blind Therapy for Go For The Throat which he was holding 2 copies. Faes started to pop per turn chumping the Vampires and a Batterskull wielding Fae did it for me.
G2: Almost same as the previous he has no answer for Bitterblossom as he was stuck on 2 lands and got overran by Faeries and Souls.
* I think this is a budget MBC deck with no wastelands. I was puzzled that he let me draw from Jace multiple times with a Hexmage in play. Lucky me
1-1-1
Round 4: BANT enchantment deck
G1: I got an early Bitterblossom going and he answered with a Troll Ascetic. Chumping the Ascetic, he eventually landed a Geist and an echantment that gives the ascetic +2/+2 and flying. Couldn't keep up with him as my STP's were useless.
G2: Mulligan to 5 and got stuck with 2 lands and a bunch of removal. When I reached 3 lands, a Geist was flying over me and an Ascetic. Last ditched effort: at 4 lands Snapcaster Mage for Edict was Spell Pierced and I die.
1-2-1
Round 5: MBC
G1: I kept a hand of 2 Inqui and 1 Therapy with plains and swamp. Saw Ritual, Hymn and a HAUNTING ECHOES. Hate bear.dec. Won through discarding everything in sight and on the back of Fae tokens.
G2: I got hit by Extirpate on Ponder(no idea why), Sadistic Sacrament on 2 Blossoms and 1 SFM, and Haunting Echoes on Delta, SFM and 2 others. WTF. Luckily I was holding all the equipments and the lone bitterblossom left and stabilized from there. Intuition for 3 Souls is da bomb.
2-2-1
Round 6: GW Tron
G1: Dragging game with him going online Turn 3 casting Wurmcoil Engine. I am ahead by 1 turn in Fae production so I got to chump the Wurm easily. He made a mistake of using Karn's ability to kill the Germ Token instead of Batterskull nad eventually I overrun him with a horde of flying spirits and Fae wielding Batterskull.
G2: He opened with Land expedition map and I played a land. I was holding Wasteland already and drew Surgical Extraction hitting Mine and left him to hard cast everything the normal way. Last 5 turns was called and he emptied my board with a timely all is dust. on the 4th turn he cast Emrakul and while on the stack, I edict his Primeval Titan away and let Emrakul resolve. He can't kill me so I took the match.
3-2-1
Round 7: Dredge
G1: I opened with plains and he opened with a City of Brass into Faithless Looting and an LED. 2 turns later we were off to G2.
G2: Boarded in 8 and I mean EIGHT cards against him and drew nothing but blanks. Mulled to 6 into a hand with 2 brainstorm, chrome, 2 wasteland and something else. His first dredges were also blanks but eventually won since mine were worse.
3-3-1
Overall, I like the deck. The direction is strictly different to the one that Tom Martell made popular. This has close resemblance to the Joe Bernal used to make top 8 in 2 SCG opens if am not mistaken. What I did was make a hybrid of both to see the interactions. Fun to play with but here are some of the changes I would make:
1) I will take out Force of Will already. The deck plays a lot like BW tokens only with splash blue. All my games I took them out and were hardly a factor against what I have faced. Might come back eventually depends on the meta I guess.
2) Stick to discard effects. It is better to become proactive than just wait for their threats to land. The Discard along with Pierce and Snare are enough to deal with them anyway. Tokens will eventually outnumber them.
3) Both decks cannot coexist. The role you play will greatly differs since the Tom's build has the mindset of UW stoneblade that splashed black. Joe's however is BW with splash blue making it the minority. With my build, Joe's design is better and I think suited to my play style.
4) I would like to try this with the new Miracle cards that will be released. The deck has potential given a few more practice runs.
Any suggestions?
If you have 8 GY hate cards and don't see any of them, why stop mulling at 6? I say you keep going. You almost have to, since without hate you're at such a disadvantage.
You might try replacing the Snapcasters, an maybe even Jace, with Bobs. Especially if you're dropping FoW.
How about this?
4 stoneforge mystic
1 umezawa's jittte
1 batterskull
3 snapcaster mage
4 lingering souls
2 inquisition of kozilek
2 thoughtseize
4 swords to plowshares
4 spell snare
4 force of will
3 jace, the mindsculptor
4 brainstorm
2 ponder
4 underground sea
3 tundra
2 scrubland
4 polluted delta
2 flooded strand
3 marsh flats
1 swamp
1 plains
1 island
1 karakas
@Matunos
Thanks for the reply. Am actually leaning towards this list and testing it right now:
TX Esperblade 4.0
2 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
3 Polluted Delta
3 Scrubland
1 Swamp
3 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
3 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
2 Bitterblossom
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Chrome Mox
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Lingering Souls
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Thoughtseize
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Vindicate
1 Zealous Persecution
@rchinnock
Nice list but isnt Bob+fow a bit suicide? Also I've seen lists running Chrome for the 1st turn bob and others doesn't it also warrant inclusion in this?
just recently put this decktype together and I was thinking about a single card with the rise of power in the form of Life from the Loam and decline in power of Hymn to Tourach, wouldn't Gerrard's Verdict be a decent consideration. I know it's 2cc, but this deck runs a bunch of 1cc and 2cc, would it fit in? Again, I'm new the arch type and am still getting last minute pieces.
If you were going that route, why not Castigate?Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeinVoncy
I'd rather go Extract b/c it's at least a 1cc 1 for 1. Castigate is a 2cc 1 for 1 where at least Gerrard's Verdict is a 2cc 2 for 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by matunos
I feel that if you're going to use a more then 1 mana for discard, it should hit more then 1 card. Why I suggest Gerrard's Verdict is b/c a person playing with Life from the Loam will have no issue pitching lands, we at least would gave life from it.
Forgive me for not knowing, but what difference is there between UWB Esperblade and the UWB lists I see in the Blade Control thread? I've been reading through both threads and many UWB lists in the threads look very, very similar to each other.
I actually really like the idea of running Extract along side Snapcaster Mage. You can find the opponent's Loams, Jace's, Tendrils, Ad Nauseam, etc. You can also fuck up the most optimal Intuition piles.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeinVoncy