[Deck] U/R Delver

Are you playing fireblast? I think in most cases I would rather have that 3rd Price of Progress or 1 of 2 Fireblast vs Vapor snag.

I do think 3 lavamancer feels right in here. I moved the 4th to the board and did bring him for the maverick matchup. The decks this beats are just blowouts because of our speed. The decks that give us trouble I don't see the main deck bounce helping as much as more game ender spells (price and fireblast)

I am looking forward to testing this deck tonight. I really want to see what a deck running smaller numbers of all the goods comes out like.

3 Force of Will
3 Ponder
3 Price of Progress
3 Spell Snare
2 Daze
2 Fireblast


What does your list look like?

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Originally Posted by millerd33

Are you playing fireblast? I think in most cases I would rather have that 3rd Price of Progress or 1 of 2 Fireblast vs Vapor snag.

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Yes, as a 2 off finisher

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Originally Posted by millerd33

3 Force of Will
3 Ponder
3 Price of Progress
3 Spell Snare
2 Daze
2 Fireblast

What does your list look like?

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Somewhat similar to yours and also Shrout's:

Lands (18):
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Red Fetches
3x Blue Fetches
3x VI
2x Islands
3x Mountain

Creatures (14):
4x Delver
4x Goblin Guide
4x Grim Lavamancer
2x Snapcaster

Burn (12):
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Chain Lightning
1x Fire/Ice
2x Price of Progress
2x Fireblast

Counter (9):
2x Daze
3x Spell Snare
4x Force

Dig (7):
4x Brainstorm
3x Ponder

As I said, I'm not happy with Fire/Ice 'cause it rarely trades 2:1, even in the Maverick matchup they usually have a Mother and protect one creature. Best thing is to put it down with Force. That's the reason why I didn't cut it for a 3rd price or 4th Chain lightning yet.
Two Snapcaster are fine for me, since I only want them in lategame. Some goes for Fireblast. I'm unsure about the 4th Lavamancer, those are about the 2 spots I would change. The rest seems fine in my meta.
3 VI worked out very well in regards to wasteland and stuff but VI is always nice to sac with fireblast when targeted by a Wasteland. You wanna mana screw me, here is a bolt and there is a blast. Let's see if you can handle this.
Feel free to comment!

considering all the shuffle and peek effects this deck has, it may be more viable to run the majority of your business spells as 3-ofs only. We'll see when miller gets back from testing this version of the deck. I still wouldn't cut bolt or CB down to 3 though but I suck at magic so

Capitalization and punctuation are required. Please use them. -zilla

So after testing roughly 30 games tonight with videogamer99's list. That list runs smooth like silk. It's a Aggro/Tempo/Control deck all in one. the 3 of's were amazing. I was able to ponder or brainstorm into any answer I needed at the right time all the while keeping the pressure on with our efficient beaters. With bs and ponder along side price and fireblast i was "topdecking" (dig find and natural) for the win all night long.
Reanimator needs to land an Iona or elish norn EARLY like turn 2/3 or it was a blow out. I have a feeling the Reanimator deck I played against was not the best that archtype could be based on how much trouble it had getting a guy into the yard/finding the reanimate spell/having counter backup very early. (they should have a giant dude out on turn 3 right?)

Back to the list itself. I found myself siding out the snapcasters and lavamaners for echoing truth and Surgical Extraction. I would drop my turn 1 guy and start the beats. Left the mana open to spell snare or bounce any threat he did manage to land. Free daze, force, surgical were all just bonus throwing instant burn at the head at end of turns.

I took his advise and went to 3 volcanic island and 3 basic island. Didn't really notice the 4th was gone. If they have wasteland i'm just gonna fetch basics. If they don't then 3 volcanic's to fetch is the exact number we want in play.

This is 100% the list I will be playing with.

Thoughts?

you can't argue with results. how many different decks would you say you went up against? Did you have to deal with any shrouded creatures your burn couldn't touch viz. nimble mongoose? and if so were you able to outrace the opponent if they were able to resolve one and reach threshold? I only ask because I've been seeing it pop up more and more often at my lgs and it becomes a big problem quickly if it resolves. Instead of wastelands has anyone considered running 1-2 maze of ith instead? A lot of the g/w/x decks tend to only have 1-2 creatures out and attacking at a time and this strategy hits a brick wall and accordions like a collapsed lung against maze. One weakness I definitely noticed with this deck is, because of the low volume of creatures you'll usually only have one on the board at any time attacking unless you've determined you'll have to race your foe and just overextend with a delver and guide. A single maze will shut down your delver and you'll be forced to sit on your hands waiting to draw a snapcaster or some other burn spell to torch off those last points of your opponent's life while they draw jace or whatever.

I think Ponder is better for the lists that play Force of Will but I'd play Magma Jet instead of Ponder when you're not playing Force of Will. The scry 2 is a good enough effect to make sure your Delver flips or that you draw sufficient gas. The damage part of the spell obviously fits the deck well.

Three Snapcasters and three PoP seems good. Gives the deck more powerful mid to late game plays. I also like two Fireblast as finishers.

oh man. i just played some dude with a belcher.dec and managed to burn him down to 1 life at the end of my turn. next turn he cracks LED and belches me for 43. damnit. if i had held that fireblast instead of torching his wall of tinder with it that game would have been mine. live and learn.

Use capitalization. Thanks. -zilla

I only tested against reanimator last night. So this post is pure speculation.

Maze of Ith is a problem that I have been thinking about myself. So far my plan has been to keep KotR off the table and hope they don't draw it. Bloodmoon? Boom/Bust? Wasteland? Raze? Scorched Earth? They all seem to be the "best" choices even though I do not like any of them other then maybe scorched earth or bloodmoon now that our island count is up to 3.

The question is are we able to race the decks packing this without our creatures? Maverick is very popular right now and has the tools to use maze very well.

As for shroud creatures like the Mongoose and the big guys reanimator brings in. Against Mongoose I'm just going to trade blows with them throwing all the burn I can dig up to the dome. Against inkwell/empyrial archangel spell snare hits 7 of the 11 spells they have to get him into play preboard (if they are even maindecking him) out of the side our hate comes in and we just have to stay live to force the show and tell.

I'm not sure if this is the correct way to attack these problems it's just in a bubble the approach I would take.

I would love to see some matchup analysis and sideboard strategy others are using against the different decks out there.

As this deck evolves it's important we keep pointing out it's weaknesses in hopes of finally putting together an optimal list.

Is there a common agreement that a burn heavy list with snapcaster is the optimal route or are there still a lot of people playing around with stifle in a burn deck?

Has anyone tested Dismember in that deck to stop KotR, Goyf, Tombstalker, Jin-Gitaxias or big Ooze?

Price of progress -4 life, 2 fetches -2 life, dismember -4 life. Maverick puts down threats just as fast as we do. Can we afford to lose that extra life?

With how popular Maverick has become and only getting more weapons with each set. What is our best plan of attack against them?

Has anyone tested against it? Any Brainstorming on possible cards to turn that matchup in our favor?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by millerd33

With how popular Maverick has become and only getting more weapons with each set. What is our best plan of attack against them?

Has anyone tested against it? Any Brainstorming on possible cards to turn that matchup in our favor?

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I do test a lot vs. punishing maverick and see the MU around 50/50 maybe 60/40 in our favor, since you only have to watch out for their lifegain, but still need to hold a hand that's sets a clock. Lavamancer is pretty good, goblin guide in early game for damage, in late game for blocking. Delver is great, especially when you Snare Punishing Fire and Bolt Mindsensor or Sryb Ranger...
Usually Price of Progress is the finisher, even flashbacked with Snapcaster. Since they can't counter, there is no problem in tapping out. But in a situation where both are in topdeck mode we usually grap the faster solution.

The new ooze is pretty tough, though *indestructible* and growing every turn.

I can't see dismember in this deck. If I need 5 damage there is Lavamancer+Bolt or something like that and I can shoot that around opposing blockers. Knight need to be FoW or you have to be faster...

Does this mean 3x Sulfuric Vortex is a must in our board at the moment?

Sideboard:
3 Echoing Truth
3 Submerge
3 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Force of Will

Because we are fast would Cage > Surgical Extraction as it will take them time to find the answer and go off? -3 SCM +3 Cage

EDIT: @catmint: The real strength of the deck IMO is it's able to play aggro/tempo/control depending on the match up. By adding stifle instead of say our bomb burn spells we are giving them an extra turn (taking away a land drop but adding a card drawn). I like being fast. This could be wrong and would love to hear people's throughts on a wasteland/stifle package.

I feel like i'm high jacking this thread but this is a deck that I enjoy playing and discussing.

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Originally Posted by millerd33

Does this mean 3x Sulfuric Vortex is a must in our board at the moment?

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I believe it is, maybe just as a 2 off, but I would also play 2 Flusterstorm SB!

I don't want a wasteland, best situation ever: my VI gets wasted I take the mana, sac 2 mountains into fireblast and cast Pop, without dealing damage to me and forcing my opponent to fetch and or get blown out by it.
Goblin guide syergyses with Pop, Wasteland does not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by millerd33

Price of progress -4 life, 2 fetches -2 life, dismember -4 life. Maverick puts down threats just as fast as we do. Can we afford to lose that extra life?

With how popular Maverick has become and only getting more weapons with each set. What is our best plan of attack against them?

Has anyone tested against it? Any Brainstorming on possible cards to turn that matchup in our favor?

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I usually have something about 18 life or more when they play a 4/4 or 5/5 KotR and my guide cannot attack anymore.
It is not a problem when they have less than 10 life already but if they don't I am in the defense mode.

It is not so easy to Fow a KotR when you are playing against Bant because they have Fow too. I would also always side Fow out for Maverick matchup to bring in submerges and artifact hate.

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Originally Posted by dave8

It is not so easy to Fow a KotR when you are playing against Bant because they have Fow too. I would also always side Fow out for Maverick matchup to bring in submerges and artifact hate.

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If they force your force, they don't force your price. Vs Maverick I would side out daze and maybe a couple of goblin guides, to have access to smash to smitherens and submerge, but especially sulfuric vortex.

What about a single copy of Riptide Laboratory? For reusing Snapcaster, instead of Vapor Snag.

I thought about a single riptide lab but, honestly a lot of the time I won't even play a snapcaster unless it's to flashback pop or to flash a bolt back to kill a creature. It's a great card but more often than not it turns into force food.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dave8

Has anyone tested Dismember in that deck to stop KotR, Goyf, Tombstalker, Jin-Gitaxias or big Ooze?

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I use Dismember in place of Chain Lightning, in game two and three against green opponents I bring in Submerge in its place. It works well and I would recommend it.

Is this the first time a U/R deck has been in the DTB list? Pretty impressive.

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

Is this the first time a U/R deck has been in the DTB list? Pretty impressive.

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Painted Stone