Every card that's banned in Vintage is banned in Legacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbiteitholmes
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Every card that's banned in Vintage is banned in Legacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbiteitholmes
Every card that's banned in Vintage is a dexterity/ante card, which doesn't mean much since they're banned in every format.Quote:
Originally Posted by clavio
If you meant that every card that's restricted in Vintage is banned in Legacy, that has never been true since the lists were split.
I believe he was trying to point out exactly that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil Credo
I'm gonna say this is sarcasm. I feel confident in pointing that out.Quote:
Originally Posted by joemauer
[Keanu Reeves]
What if Wizards printed Temporal Mastery to get us used to the idea of an emergency banning so they could emergency ban Reforge the Soul?
[/Keanu Reeves]
haha, awesome, thanks for the laugh!Quote:
Originally Posted by majikal
Personal Tutor will now replace Mystical in Storm because of Reforge the Soul, thus Wizards made Reforge the Soul to show three things-
1.They don't hate Combo.
2.They don't hate Red.
3.They don't hate Tutors.
Thanks Wizards.
will this card see play? yes. but heres the thing, i dont know how many of you have actually cast a timewalk in vintage but to be honest its often a non-event. you cast it, untap, draw and say go.
as far as what deck it should be played in i'd probably cobble together some combination of the following
Jace TMS
Brainstorm
FOW
Dark Confidant
Delver
KOTR
Ancestral Visions
Vendilion Clique
It's not a non-event but a big part of the reason why is that you usually play a couple Moxes and or a Lotus and can do way more with that extra turn or you just casted your bomb and now you need one turn to lock the game down.Quote:
Originally Posted by yadda
If the card is so mediocre in Vintage like people say here, then I truly wonder why everyone keeps playing it. I don't know all that much about Vintage, but I know that with all these awesome 1-offs deck slots are very valueable.
I think that Temporal Mastery will make most non-blue decks unplayable.
It hardly has any drawbacks, as it doesn't need any setup if it's not in your opening 7.
If it is in your opening 7, then you can pitch it to Force of Will or put it on top of your library via Brainstorm or Ponder into Brainstorm.
One extra turn IS a big deal:
Just imagine the worst case, in which you don't have anything on the board that you can attack twice with or another permanent that you can activate twice.
One extra land drop is a huge boost as it makes Turn 3 Jace possible and makes other strong plays possbile one turn earlier.
Just think about the often mentioned sentence: If card X cost 1 less, then it would be playable/nuts.
I think we'll see a backshift to the MM-area where Jace was all over the place.
This time though, there will also be many combo decks around that incorporate Reforge the soul which is also clearly broken imo.
I think Temporal Mastery and Reforge the Soul will get the axe for sure in Legacy...
Hell, even Thunderous Wrath in a UR Delver deck scares the shit out of me...
Here are 2 potential deck lists:
Temporal Bant:
4x Hierarch
4x GSZ
4x StP
4x FOW
4x Temporal Mastery
4x Bstorm
3x Ponder
3x Daze
3x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Jace
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Sc. Ooze
1x Clique
20 lands
UR Delver:
4x FOW
3x Temporal Mastery
3x Thunderous Blast
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Daze
4x Delver
4x Goblin Guide
4x Vexing Devil
4x Bstorm
4x Ponder
4x Chain Lightning
18 lands
(T1 Delver
T2 Guide, swing(15), setup Mastery via Ponder/Bstorm
T3 Mastery, swing(10), Burn or another threat
Untap, swing, burn -->dead)
This scenary is not unlike as there are many other Turn 3 clocks via T1 guide or Vexing Devil into Thunderous Blast etc...
But taking extra turns is the worst kind of tempo according to some. The setup is so hard! It's like I would need a card that could put cards from my hand onto of my library while also cantripping...
Yes it is bad if you are spending a turn to set-up an extra turn without doing much else in that turn.
Yeah. So is Spell Snare when it counters Daze.Quote:
Originally Posted by bilb_o
Get real. We're not talking about players with brains the size of a nut that get their only fix by taking OMG AN EXTRA TURN!!!11 and would do anything to do so.
He was being dramatic and I responded to that. I don't think anyone here thinks it's bad tempo to take an extra turn. People are questioning the restrictions imposed by the Miracle mechanic and the marginal advantage you can get from the card in the Legacy format.
Edit: Ok sinced I argued I need to leave my own opinion too. I still think that a 2cc Time Walk is most effective with a bomb or extra card advantage to pull way ahead, or end the game in that extra turn. I don't think Legacy has enough accelerants, or kind of bombs as Vintage has to pay for 1cc (cantrip/set-up) + 2cc Miracle + Bomb/Card draw in a turn that really matters. Sure you can do it on turn 4-5, you can do amazing things by then but you can do very powerful things before those turns in Legacy and end the game as well.
Because casting Brainstorm with TM on top or Sensei's Divining Top cantripping into TM during your opponents turn is "not doing much else". Yes, getting two full free turns with all of your mana open is "not doing much else".Quote:
Originally Posted by bilb_o
I'm not being dramatic at all. It was either this topic or the other where people were claiming that getting an extra turn ala TM is bad tempo. Problem is, they assume the worse case scenario, where I top deck it on turn 3 with two lands. If anything, I was showing how silly their dramatic attacks on the card are.Quote:
Originally Posted by bilb_o
Please show us the best case scenario? And why it would be common place and over powered.
It doesn't matter. Stop picking on straw man arguments. In case you don't understand, if someone showed how Time Walking was overpowered in certain scenarios, you would just answer "But how often does that even happen? It's irrelevant!" thus rendering your question useless in the first place because you explicitly asked for the best case scenario which of course is different from the "average case" application of the card.Quote:
Originally Posted by bilb_o
So you also have mind reading skills as well as future sight? What am I going to have for dinner tonight?Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
Edit: And I realized that in your passion filled blind snap response you missed the part where I also said "and why it would be common place" indicating the thought process behind it and the follow-up question I had.
I wish you the very best with breaking Time Walk 2.0 and taking all the turns. I am skeptical until people start squeezing actual advantage out of it compared to their other options.
i never said it was mediocre, i was just saying that often resolving timewalk does not mean that you win the game, even in a format where you can do absolutely insane things in a single turn. i think TM will find a home but that like in vintage there will be plenty of decks that don't play a single copy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tao
the thing people dont seem to understand about why vintage decks are so powerful is that it isnt really the P9 cards that are broken but rather its the cheap tutors and cards with yawgmoth in their name.