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The thing is, in my opinion, SoH seems to be the worst card in the deck.
I really often have the situation that im drawing this card, without a direct source of blue mana. If I play Land Grand, my first target is Bayou and my 2nd is Taiga.
But you can allways play Confidant. And yes, I totally would "discard" first Turn Lotus Petal or Dark Ritual for First Turn Confidant against the most Decks.
I mean, its better to get Confidant countered, then a Land Grant or a Tutor.
Ok so why wouldnt I want blazing speed against that deck? I usually want to win before gro has the mana to cast Counterspell. Playing around Daze, and through FoW. Meddling Mage can be raced similarly. Id rather run more discard to fight against Thresh. Duress would take out enemy hate cards yet can be grabbed with Burning Wish as well. Not bastardizing the sideboard with Bob. I cant think of any other matchups Id want him in. Confidant doesnt help with Meddling Mage anyways..Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nightmare
Ive been bringing in 3 Xantid Swarm, 3 Duress against Thresh. With good results.
The fact is they won't counter it, they'll Plow or Fire/ice or bold or Pyroclasm or anything else it. This way they're gonna take advantage of an otherwise dead card in their hand. Not only, they're also doing a 2 for 1!Quote:
Originally Posted by Windux
The field is well prepared to deal with a X/1 creature from the first turn (read lackey) this is why confidant might only find its place in the sideboard (when people remove maindeck creature hate).
Sleight of hand might be not the best card in the deck, but i find MD confidants much worse. If you want something on-color (black) you can try to run Brain Pry even if seems playable only with a helm in play: noone tested it.
I've not been an avid Nausea player, but when the entire idea of a deck is blazing speed, talking about not going for speedy wins is kind of stupid in my opinion. Gro will make its hand better. You will not. Confidant will take time to work. Gro will kill it or just not care because it has enough counters in hand and enough mana to cast them since you've given them all that time. While I don't feel Confidant's potential has been fully realized in Legacy, fast combo and slow draw engines do not mix.
Confidant makes the deck more consistent but slower. Its great in the sb as grow boards out plows against you and if they counter it its one last counter for your helm. But considering how this deck wants to race gobbs and such, i think this confidant has a better place in TJS.
Dark Confidant makes the opponents critter removal good. That, against Rifter and Gro, is bad news. If you want to play the deck slower, it shouldn't be a matter of changing the deck, but changing your play.
If you're really 'hellbent' on putting Confidant in the deck I'd take out a couple of sideboard cards and just bring him in game 2 when your opponent takes out their swords.
The thing is, what exactly is Bob going to improve? Not Rifter because they won't side out Lightning Rift. Against gro they still have counters, and against any other mid range control deck I'll assume they can still deal with the 2/1.
I guess my point is wtf are we talking about Bob?
What about Bob?
LOL... I haven't seen that movie since I was like ten.Quote:
Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living
Anyways if you want to have a creature in the sideboard to help out when they side out creature hate I think Phyrexian Negator would be a better choice.(But still a bad idea)
It seems the talk has been alot about speed recently.
A few questions:
1) What's the percentages of kills on goldfishes? Is your first turn kill like 10%, second turn 35%, third turn 45%, fourth-x turn 20%? Something like that?
2) What matchups are improved with less disruption and more speed?
3) What matchups are improved with disruption?
4) Are there any other pieces of disruption that can be considered aside from counterspell disruption? For instance, Engineered Plague against Goblins, etc.
I haven't got around to percentages yet with the new list, but I can explain some other things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenpence
For your second question, Threshold. Threshold really doesn't get online till turn four. they have to spend these turns using cantrips to optimize their hand. If you don't give them that time, they will almost always only have one counter in hand. This is actually why Solidarity is so bad against Thresh, because they have to go off on the turn that Thresh will have a close to optimal hand.
The matches that would be improved by disruption are very low hence the reason I don't have any. That and the fact that adding disruption just seem useless, almost any of your spells can be a Duress for a counterspell if you play correctly.
Also, I wouldn't be worrying about your aggro match. It is quite possibly the least of your worries.
Do you have a list with Infernal Tutor that you feel is optimal yet?
I'm very much interested in seeing the new face of Nausea.
I picked up the deck and started screwing around with it after seeing Roopey topdeck like Squee last Saturday.
A half-decent list:
Nausea
main
Mana
4x Dark Ritual
4x Cabal Ritual
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
4x Land Grant
1x Taiga
1x Bayou
4x City of Traitors
4x Helm of Awakening//Whee!
Scary cards
4x Night's Whisper
Tutors
4x Burning Wish//See sideboard.
3x Spoils of the Vault
4x Infernal Tutor:
1x Ill-Gotten Gains
1x Diminishing Returns
1x Tendrils of Agony
//18 cards.
Eggs
4x Chromatic Sphere
4x Darkwater Egg
4x Shadowblood Egg
//12 cards.
//Main
Sideboard
3x Durress
3x Xantid Swarm
Wishboard:
1x Promise of Power
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Diminishing Returns
1x Regrowth
1x Infernal Contract
1x Ill-Gotten Gains
1x Echoing Ruin
1x Hull Breach
1x Chain Lightning
//8 cards.
I really like this build. Playing it feels like driving a tank into suburbia - broken if beatable. It has eleven tutors (effectively). I at first tried no Spoils, then two, then three, as it gives you a chance at scoring a crucial Helm of Awakening, but you only want to play one in a game (if any). This build even forces you to tutor/wish for Tendrils, which cuts down on dead draws. I moved the fourth Whisper to the maindeck because the Lion's Eye Diamonds facilitate such more ridiculous plays that it seems laughable. However, LED is a veritable suicide bomb vs. Force of Will, so it could be better anyway. Best maindeck change I can think of is moving a Whisper to the board (taking out Hull Breach or Regrowth, most likely) and putting something terrible in the maindeck to replace it. Maybe a fourth Spoils.
So this is an adequately consistent (and onanistic) list with Infernal Tutor in it. At least until Ramsaroop comes along and beats me across the face with better ideas.
P.S: Isn't it nice to finally kick Sleight of Hand to the curb?
i'd like to have a maindeck meditate instead of diminishing returns:
- Costs 1 blu less (this version is more blue-light) so can be easily cast when you draw it
- it doesn't make my opponent draw any new force of will / daze
- it doesn't remove my other 1 ofs when i cast it. If I remove my copy of tendrils in the maindeck i can only go for burning wish -> tendrils.
- 4 cards are usually enough to win.
I think diminishing returns is in the sideboard because is a sorcery, but maindeck we can run istants too, as Infernal Tutor tutorizes for anything.
I hope you know Roop cut night's whisper for infernal tutor. Also he runs meditate over diminishing returns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrokinesis
Meditate over Returns maindeck: Better.
Sleight of Hand over Night's Whisper: Just stupid. THere's almost no reason to take out WHisper instead of Sleight for IT.
In fact there is. You see Sleight of Hand cost 1. Night's Whisper cost 2. See the huuuuge margin in between that? It's big, trust me. This is also the reason why I am only running 3 IT and 4 Spoils. Making the deck as consistant as possible when you don't have a Helm is actually the main objective here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrokinesis
Also, I haven't tested it yet, but Brainstorm might go back in with the addition of more shuffling effects.
Roop
everybody is talking about your list Roop, so can you post it?
I think 3 IT are enough because of its 1B CC
Thanks,
Skullclamping
Not only that but the fact that it is still a situational tutor makes it less then optimal when you draw them in multiples, especially without a Helm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullclamping
Nausea 2.1
// Mana
4 City of Traitors
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Taiga
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Land Grant
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
// Cantrip
3 Darkwater Egg
4 Chromatic Sphere
3 Shadowblood Egg
3 Sleight of Hand (Maybe Brainstorm?)
1 Meditate
// Other Shit
4 Burning Wish
3 Tendrils of Agony
4 Helm of Awakening
4 Spoils of the Vault
3 Infernal Tutor
// Sideboard
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Night's Whisper
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Promise of Power
1 Regrowth
1 Infernal Contract
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Simplify
1 Echoing Ruin
1 Firebolt
4 Xantid Swarm
I noticed roop made a comment about brainstorm over SoH and I like it. I was testing it out and it seemed to be better most of the time. In roop's current list there are 8 shuffle effects which seem enough to take advantage of it. Brainstorm is also good for setting up your cantrips or meditate after LED. It protects against discard somewhat. Maybe someone,who is better than I, can test it further, I think it should work out well.
The deck originally ran Brainstorm and I think it was a bad idea to replace it with Sleight in the first place. I never really liked it in the deck, a draw 3 is just way more powerful when setting up for the turn 2 kill.