Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Star|Scream
Thanks for the write-up
I tried to read it in English and it's really difficult to understand.
Nemesis would give it an excellent weapon to resist in those matchup where the large number of removal on his knees during the initial assault of Men Muscle Blue, allowing you to tuck the last lethal damage before the incremental benefit dell'opponent
Blue Muscle Men on their knees?!
This article has been Unicorn Approved.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Star|Scream
Thanks for the write-up
Nemesis would give it (Merfolk) an excellent weapon to resist in those matchup where the large number of removal stops the initial assault of the Muscular Blue Men, allowing the deck to tuck the last lethal damages before the opponent's incremental advantage takes off the game.
Translation fixed.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
While it's probably not Legacy-pertinent, I think the interaction between The Nemesis (as I like to call it) and Earwig Squad is worth noting.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
The nemesis of legacy.
I believe people is utterly underestimating the power level of TNN and the impact it will have on legacy.
Assuming the current meta, TNN blows most matchups. It is not only a beater, it is the ultimate wall and the ultimate beater all in one nice blue package. For decks not tuned to beat it, once it lands there is almost nothing that can be done. One single resolved TNN is gg against D&T and almost against JUND, Canadian, Stoneblade, BUG and UWR. That makes for half the DTB. Obviously there are things that can be done with this decks, but you need very specific answers or you will be in for a very uphill battle.
This bring me to the point of where does it fit better. People are considering current decks, while I am convinced that TNN centric decks are the way to go.
I think there are some things to be considered while doing this deck:
- If it dominates as much as I belive it will do, combo will increase since TNN does nothing against it, so you need a tempo shell to take most value out of it. Stifle also owns miracles, one of the few solutions to TNN.
- One possible bottleneck of the TNN plan is resolving it -> aether vial, it also fits good with the tempo plan since it lets you have all your mana open once you resolve a turn 1 vial.
- Creatures: TNN, Pantasmal image as extra copies, SFM for the equipments that will make tnn unstoppable, delver to put extra pressure while we keep disrupting everything
- Since most fights will be for resolving TNN, a red splash for red blasts in the SB, many of them.
- Most of the SB devoted to combo
So the list I have been testing with some success is as follows:
// Lands
2 [ZEN] Island
4 [TE] Wasteland
3 [R] Tundra
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [R] Volcanic Island
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
// Creatures
3 [M12] Phantasmal Image
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
4 [C13] True-Name Nemesis
// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [NE] Daze
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [NPH] Batterskull
1 [JGC] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [JGC] Stifle
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [M10] Ponder
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [JU] Envelop
SB: 3 [4E] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [RTR] Rest in Peace
SB: 3 [DGM] Wear/Tear
I acknowledge that there are options for the opponents (golgari charm and zealous prosecution being the most notable), but the fast tempo shell, and the fact that this cards are off-color against a heavily disrupting deck makes me believe they can be managed.
Btw, I think R&D know the true meaning of the card, it is designed to be the nemesis of legacy, the final card that will break the equilibrium of the legacy metagame so at last people will start moving to modern.
What do you all think?
Am I over exaggerating things?
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
I agree with you that a lot of people aren't seeing the card's power yet, but I don't see the conspiracy. If WOTC wanted to damage Legacy, they'd just unban Mental Misstep. That said, I loathe this card and think it was extremely poorly designed.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Quote:
What do you all think?
I think Aether Vial in a delver deck is terrible.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
It may be a strong card, but at the end of the day it is still just a 3cc 3/1 creature that doesn't end the game the moment it is dropped.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Albert
The nemesis of legacy.
I believe people is utterly underestimating the power level of TNN and the impact it will have on legacy.
Assuming the current meta, TNN blows most matchups. It is not only a beater, it is the ultimate wall and the ultimate beater all in one nice blue package. For decks not tuned to beat it, once it lands there is almost nothing that can be done. One single resolved TNN is gg against D&T and almost against JUND, Canadian, Stoneblade, BUG and UWR. That makes for half the DTB. Obviously there are things that can be done with this decks, but you need very specific answers or you will be in for a very uphill battle.
This bring me to the point of where does it fit better. People are considering current decks, while I am convinced that TNN centric decks are the way to go.
I think there are some things to be considered while doing this deck:
- If it dominates as much as I belive it will do, combo will increase since TNN does nothing against it, so you need a tempo shell to take most value out of it. Stifle also owns miracles, one of the few solutions to TNN.
- One possible bottleneck of the TNN plan is resolving it -> aether vial, it also fits good with the tempo plan since it lets you have all your mana open once you resolve a turn 1 vial.
- Creatures: TNN, Pantasmal image as extra copies, SFM for the equipments that will make tnn unstoppable, delver to put extra pressure while we keep disrupting everything
- Since most fights will be for resolving TNN, a red splash for red blasts in the SB, many of them.
- Most of the SB devoted to combo
So the list I have been testing with some success is as follows:
// Lands
2 [ZEN] Island
4 [TE] Wasteland
3 [R] Tundra
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [R] Volcanic Island
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
// Creatures
3 [M12] Phantasmal Image
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
4 [C13] True-Name Nemesis
// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [NE] Daze
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [NPH] Batterskull
1 [JGC] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [JGC] Stifle
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [M10] Ponder
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [JU] Envelop
SB: 3 [4E] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [RTR] Rest in Peace
SB: 3 [DGM] Wear/Tear
I acknowledge that there are options for the opponents (golgari charm and zealous prosecution being the most notable), but the fast tempo shell, and the fact that this cards are off-color against a heavily disrupting deck makes me believe they can be managed.
Btw, I think R&D know the true meaning of the card, it is designed to be the nemesis of legacy, the final card that will break the equilibrium of the legacy metagame so at last people will start moving to modern.
What do you all think?
Am I over exaggerating things?
You act like this card can block more than one creature. If there are 2 goyfs against this card, 1 is still going to get through. And it's easier to get 2 goyfs on the field than 2 TNN
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Star|Scream
And it's easier to get 2 goyfs on the field than 2 TNN
How do you come to that conclusion? It's possible to get 2 goyfs SOONER, but I doubt very much it's easier. In fact, the stats are exactly the same in non-GSZ builds.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Secretly.A.Bee
How do you come to that conclusion? It's possible to get 2 goyfs SOONER, but I doubt very much it's easier. In fact, the stats are exactly the same in non-GSZ builds.
And...obviously it's easier to get rid of 1 goyf than a tnn. Tnn will be an insane equipment-carrier.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Secretly.A.Bee
How do you come to that conclusion? It's possible to get 2 goyfs SOONER, but I doubt very much it's easier. In fact, the stats are exactly the same in non-GSZ builds.
In a format with stifle, wasteland, and daze, spells with a casting cost of 2 are much easier to resolve than spells costing 3.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
testing32
I think Aether Vial in a delver deck is terrible.
In a vacuum yes. But in this case they serve two different purposes:
- Vial ensures that your TNN lands uncountered -> good against counter decks (and they will rise since the only option against TNN are combos)
- Delver excels against combo as the fastest threat available. Delver is just a complement to the speed of the deck, and from time to time you get those delver-stifle-waste-fow-daze hands that are unbeatable on their own. And as I said I expect combo to rise to ignore TNN altogether.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Albert
The nemesis of legacy.
I believe people is utterly underestimating the power level of TNN and the impact it will have on legacy.
Assuming the current meta, TNN blows most matchups. It is not only a beater, it is the ultimate wall and the ultimate beater all in one nice blue package. For decks not tuned to beat it, once it lands there is almost nothing that can be done. One single resolved TNN is gg against D&T and almost against JUND, Canadian, Stoneblade, BUG and UWR. That makes for half the DTB. Obviously there are things that can be done with this decks, but you need very specific answers or you will be in for a very uphill battle.
This bring me to the point of where does it fit better. People are considering current decks, while I am convinced that TNN centric decks are the way to go.
I think there are some things to be considered while doing this deck:
- If it dominates as much as I belive it will do, combo will increase since TNN does nothing against it, so you need a tempo shell to take most value out of it. Stifle also owns miracles, one of the few solutions to TNN.
- One possible bottleneck of the TNN plan is resolving it -> aether vial, it also fits good with the tempo plan since it lets you have all your mana open once you resolve a turn 1 vial.
- Creatures: TNN, Pantasmal image as extra copies, SFM for the equipments that will make tnn unstoppable, delver to put extra pressure while we keep disrupting everything
- Since most fights will be for resolving TNN, a red splash for red blasts in the SB, many of them.
- Most of the SB devoted to combo
So the list I have been testing with some success is as follows:
// Lands
2 [ZEN] Island
4 [TE] Wasteland
3 [R] Tundra
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [R] Volcanic Island
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
// Creatures
3 [M12] Phantasmal Image
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
4 [C13] True-Name Nemesis
// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [NE] Daze
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [NPH] Batterskull
1 [JGC] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [JGC] Stifle
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [M10] Ponder
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [JU] Envelop
SB: 3 [4E] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [RTR] Rest in Peace
SB: 3 [DGM] Wear/Tear
I acknowledge that there are options for the opponents (golgari charm and zealous prosecution being the most notable), but the fast tempo shell, and the fact that this cards are off-color against a heavily disrupting deck makes me believe they can be managed.
Btw, I think R&D know the true meaning of the card, it is designed to be the nemesis of legacy, the final card that will break the equilibrium of the legacy metagame so at last people will start moving to modern.
What do you all think?
Am I over exaggerating things?
I agree that people aren't seeing its power until they get to face it.
However, I don't think your deck has enough creatures to support Aether Vial. How does it work in this deck? Tick it to 3 as soon as possible? Leave it at 2 and tick it if you draw Nemesis?
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
I created a thread to discuss the proposed list in particular:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...Legacy-Nemesis
But to answer your question the main point of using vial is to protect TNN weakest point, the stack. This does not mean that we have to go on autopilot ticking vial to 3, it will all depend on amount of mana, colors available, pressure we are under or that we want to apply etc. For the games I have played so far there is no clear cut answer, each game can be different.
Another thing to consider as comparison to merfolks or D&T is that we run 4 Brainstorm and 3 ponder plus fetchlands, so our searching capabilities are way superior than in those other decks.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Stifle does not answer TNN. You can not stifle static (as...enters the battlefield) abilities with Stifle.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenpoe
Stifle does not answer TNN. You can not stifle static (as...enters the battlefield) abilities with Stifle.
Stifle answers Terminus , one of the few cards that can get rid of TNN.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
I'm so afraid of facing lists that have both goyf and tnn it's not even funny. Also, what about the new green instant that stops a creature from being countered and replaces itself.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Secretly.A.Bee
I'm so afraid of facing lists that have both goyf and tnn it's not even funny. Also, what about the new green instant that stops a creature from being countered and replaces itself.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
Lol that's an awesome combo. I need to try this now O_o Flash in an uncounterable 4/2 TNN before blockers, kill an attacker, then attack with it :) I think you just broke the format.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Secretly.A.Bee
Also, what about the new green instant that stops a creature from being countered and replaces itself.
Got no idea what card you're referring to here. Savage Summoning comes to mind, but it doesn't replace itself and is quite mediocre.
Re: [SCD] Identity Nemesis
Insist does it at Sorcery speed for G.
Bound // Determined does it at Instant speed for UG.
