Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
The Legacy version also moved away from Processing.
In my opinion this is incredibly wrong, short sided, and blind to the format of legacy. The modern version moved away from processing because 1) it's not easy to get online and 2) there are only a few graveyard strategies in modern.
In legacy, relic of progenitus is bonkers if it's a main deck engine as well. None of these lists in this forum can beat lands. It's basically an auto lose. I could say similar things about reanomator. These decks are really weak to graveyard strategies, so why not play main deck relic.
Then, once you have main deck relic, you play wasteland strangler. The card obliterates bug delver, and is great vs all the delver decks. Cards get force of willed, lands get exiled with deathrite shaman. I think it's crazy not to play wasteland strangler in legacy unless you go all in on the Agro strategy-which I find naturally week in the field.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gkraigher
In my opinion this is incredibly wrong, short sided, and blind to the format of legacy.
Yet on the last page I lamented that Relic would be really good in the deck, except it clashes massively with Chalice of the Void. And Chalice is overall simply the better card in Legacy.
Maybe RiP + Karakas can get around some of the deck's weaknesses. Who knows.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Here's a preliminary list a couple friends and I developed last week without looking at this thread to see how we would build it without suggestions from outside our group so that we wouldn't be influenced by others and overlook some potential choice due to others saying they are bad before we did any testing with our list.
This is a more tuned list that the one my friend made top 16 at the Mythic Legacy event this past weekend that had over 50 players where we made the list pretty much the day before/drive out there, so we weren't running the Temples, but had Ports instead, along with other suboptimal choices. With that said and without further ado, here's our list (I already know it's 61 cards).
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Eldrazi Mimic
2 Endbringer
4 Grim Monolith
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Trinisphere
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Warping Wail
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
2 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Wasteland
Board:
2 All Is Dust
3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Null Rod
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Sundering Titan
3 Thorn of Amethyst
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
So far I'm really happy with how aggressive Eldrazi Stompy is progressing, the only testing I need to worry about is Wasteland vs. Factory in the main at this point (and in my opinion, it's still in Wasteland's favour). I've also continued to tinker with RG. The initial list had too few RG sources between the eight "tri-lands", so casting SB cards was difficult, as was casting World Breaker, occasionally (though Cavern helps with that). That being said, World Breaker is friggin insane. He is the reason to be going into any colours in my opinion, as he is by far the best "big" Eldrazi after Reality Smasher - much better than Endbringer, in my opinion, who I've been pretty unimpressed with.
As such, I cut the Monoliths and added...ugh... Talismans. This puts our RG count quite high enough to reliably cast our removal and cards out of the sideboard, at the cost of having less explosive draws - we can't even turn one Trinisphere anymore. Maybe Mox Diamond could remedy this by giving us a coloured source that still casts Trinisphere on turn one, but I already have reservations against Diamond, unless we run a Crucible package. Also I love the incorporation of Sylvan Library as a consistency tool as suggested! The life loss may get a bit much between Tombs and Forests, but Sylvan Plug has had success with Sylvan Library and Tomb, so it's probably fine.
Anyway, current RG list is this:
Creatures: (19)
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 World Breaker
2 Conduit of Ruin
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Non-Creature Spells: (16)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Talisman of Impulse
4 Punishing Fire
1 Sylvan Library
Lands: (25)
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 City of Traitors
Sideboard: (15)
3 Kozilek's Return
3 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Sylvan Library
1 All Is Dust
1 Pithing Needle
As you were asking Barook, what are the perceived strengths of RG over other midrange builds... Well, theoretically they would be:
- It is able to beat small creature decks (Elves, D&T, Grixis Delver) much more easily thanks to PFire and Return from the sideboard. Probably the most important reason to go RG.
- It goes over the smaller Eldrazi builds (who knows if this is a real issue in Legacy) thanks to again, solid removal for Mimics and World Breaker who blocks everything in the mirror and, most importantly, shuts down Eye/other Sol Lands.
The cons are:
- As you've said, our sideboard options are pretty limited still. Grudge/other Naturalize effects can be strong (eg. Krosan Grip), and RG does have great sweeper options.
- Deck still gets crippled by Wasteland, even moreso than other builds due to occasional reliance on Grove.
I think the GW list does have a lot of merit too, as white sideboard cards in Legacy are, of course, amazing. My tentative build (again, untested) for such a list would be:
Creatures: (20)
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 World Breaker
Non-Creature Spells: (15)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Talisman of Unity
3 Trinisphere
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Warping Wail
Lands: (25)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
Sideboard: (15)
3 Rest in Peace
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Sylvan Library
2 Warping Wail
1 All Is Dust
1 Karakas
The big benefit here looks like Rest in Peace, which means we don't auto-lose to Dredge etc. like the other lists. We also have the option of running hatebears too, though I'm sure our combo matchups are already fine and Canonist could just be unnecessary. I'm sure there's other white sideboard cards I'm forgetting (eg. even just straight Disenchant could be better than the Revokers). I'm also unsure whether Eldrazi Displacer will pull his weight, but this deck often feels like it needs mana sinks and having Displacer filling both creature or removal slots, in a way, is quite nice. He could just be trimmed down and the Conduit/Ulamog package reincorporated.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
I forgot to mention O-Ring effects as potential benefit of a white-heavy splash. Thanks for bringing it up. Although Banishing Light should be better here since we can't abuse trigger stacking.
Aside from RiP, Karakas and O-Ring effects, white also offers Ethersworn Canonist (which is probably better than Thorn; bonus points for a Plainless manabase; GG, Massacre! :laugh:) and Containment Priest.
Priest in particular is interesting - it hates on Reanimator, S&T, Elves and some other shenanigans. While that in itself isn't outstanding, it enables the creature nuke combo with Displacer. Might be too cute, especially since Displacer has been mediocre so far, but who knows - might be cool with sufficient numbers of both cards in the 75.
As for Sylvan Plug: Yes, they run Library and Tombs, but also shittons of life gain to not kill themselves. 4x Tomb + 3x Canopy without lifegain is just asking for trouble.
Edit: On a slightly different note: Baleful Strix is not something we want to face. It hurts.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
RG build looks kinda cool, but what does it bring to the table compared to the other builds that's an advantage? PF and K-Return seem interesting but do they really address our problems? Don't get me wrong, I like the build.
As ChemicalBurns mentioned, it is much safer vs Creature Stuff, especially if All is Dust ist often to slow (Elves) are useless ("Aggro Eldrazi", i am sure we will see it more often the next time). And as i mentioned, K-Return will be combo very well with World Breaker. The benefit will be "exploring" our own Graveyard, which also means that it is harder for your opponent to bring hate cards (Anti GY-Stuff vs Eldrazi, really?:tongue:)
But i clearly see K-Return over PFire here, because i like the "Sweep more Dudes" over "Snipe one and IF i have Grove i can do it again next turn". What is nice about Grove, most opponents will have a hard time to chose the right Wasteland Target^^
I would test the following very experimental RG brew:
More or less Core-Lands: 4 Temple, 4 Tomb, 4 Cavern, 3 Eye, 3 City
RG-Lands for a deeper Splash: 4 Grove, 2 Karplusan Forest, 1 Forest (or one more Karplusan)
Creature-Core: 4 Smasher, 4 Seer, 1 Ulamog, 4 Endless One (or Reshaper, but this deck want also an early Creature)
Big Ones: 2 Conduit of Ruin, 3 World Breaker, 1 Ulamog (i would avoid the World Breaker playset, because Conduit is also good and sometimes it will matter if you have 6 or 7 mana avaible etc.)
Rest: 4 Chalice, 4 Mox Diamond (or Talisman), 1 Crucible (works good with Eye, City, Mox), 1 Library, 3 K-Return, 1 Trinisphere, 3 Warping Wail
The real choice here is Mox or not, it is not clear: Mox will help with a "Cloudless" Manabase, as it stabilize you well with multiple City/Eye draws and it is more explosive, but it will also need some lands (which is hard if the land reads: 2 Mana for Eldrazi or 1 Mana with Mox), later it is more or less a dead draw. Talisman itself isnt explosive but will be much better vs Moon (it can also be used for colorless mana).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gheizen64
Karakas is main playable imho, just cut into wastelands and go for full toolbox list.
EDIT: ah you play post list. Well, that's a bit harder but still doable i guess.
I think, if we explore a deeper Splash it will not work with Cloudpost&Co. The Post-List will be ok if you only have 2-3 Eldrazi targets (Cavern also helps a lot) but will struggle with any colored Sideboard Stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gkraigher
In legacy, relic of progenitus is bonkers if it's a main deck engine as well. None of these lists in this forum can beat lands. It's basically an auto lose. I could say similar things about reanomator. These decks are really weak to graveyard strategies, so why not play main deck relic.
Relic is nice, but Chalice simply is better unless you get a good build with other protection (Cabal Therapy+Reshaper, Ancient Strings as a "Cantrip" etc.), legacy contains so many decks, not all will fear a relic at main.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
Aside from RiP, Karakas and O-Ring effects, white also offers Ethersworn Canonist (which is probably better than Thorn; bonus points for a Plainless manabase; GG, Massacre! :laugh:) and Containment Priest.
Priest in particular is interesting - it hates on Reanimator, S&T, Elves and some other shenanigans. While that in itself isn't outstanding, it enables the creature nuke combo with Displacer. Might be too cute, especially since Displacer has been mediocre so far, but who knows - might be cool with sufficient numbers of both cards in the 75.
Edit: On a slightly different note: Baleful Strix is not something we want to face. It hurts.
Canonist is not better at all, because combo will still bring Decay&Stuff (Hurkyl's Recall^^ etc.) for Chalice, so taxing the removal seems better, against Elves Canonist is an Artifact that will also die to Rec.Sage. Thorn is also very usefull vs Burn (and you can also use it vs Show&Tell, Reanimate because it will slow them down). I would go with 2x Thorn and 1x Thalia (with 2 Karakas for Protection^^).
Containment Priest is also nice, i used 2 in my white build and it worked really well with Displacer /the real king vs SneakShow and Reanimate!) as a Combo (MUD, Mirror etc.).
Strix: Really? Warping Wail (All is Dust) the bird or simply run over it with Smasher etc. At my games i never had a problem with Strix, sure it is annoying but nothing more.
If you would ask me for a deeper GW Splash, i think it should work very similiar to the RG-List above (no Cloudposts). 3 Displacer and 3 Endless One would be in my first sketch and i would squeeze in 2 Library Main (the upside is not only to use "Life" for more Draw, but rather control what you will get). I also like 1 Karakas main (2nd Side), but in case of Sneak&Show i think they will try to get Blood Moon online vs Eldrazi, so it will only work G1 (and is good vs Reanimate, a little bit harder for lands etc.).
The question is Mox or Talisman (see above)...
-----------
RG vs GW:
RG will be superior vs most creature based decks (K-Return+World Breaker+PFire)
GW will be superior vs most unfair stuff (GY-Decks, Sneak&Show, Lands)
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MD.Ghost
The real choice here is Mox or not, it is not clear: Mox will help with a "Cloudless" Manabase, as it stabilize you well with multiple City/Eye draws and it is more explosive, but it will also need some lands (which is hard if the land reads: 2 Mana for Eldrazi or 1 Mana with Mox), later it is more or less a dead draw. Talisman itself isnt explosive but will be much better vs Moon (it can also be used for colorless mana).
I think Mox Diamond is best in places where you have a lot of 3 drops with colored mana symbols and 4 Eye of Ugins and a lot of City of Traitors. 2R, 2U, 2W drops (Eldrazi Skyspawner, Ruinator Guide, Eldrazi Obligator, Vile Aggregate, Eldrazi Displacer, etc).
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MD.Ghost
The real choice here is Mox or not, it is not clear: Mox will help with a "Cloudless" Manabase, as it stabilize you well with multiple City/Eye draws and it is more explosive, but it will also need some lands (which is hard if the land reads: 2 Mana for Eldrazi or 1 Mana with Mox), later it is more or less a dead draw. Talisman itself isnt explosive but will be much better vs Moon (it can also be used for colorless mana).
I think, if we explore a deeper Splash it will not work with Cloudpost&Co. The Post-List will be ok if you only have 2-3 Eldrazi targets (Cavern also helps a lot) but will struggle with any colored Sideboard Stuff.
Canonist is not better at all, because combo will still bring Decay&Stuff (Hurkyl's Recall^^ etc.) for Chalice, so taxing the removal seems better, against Elves Canonist is an Artifact that will also die to Rec.Sage. Thorn is also very usefull vs Burn (and you can also use it vs Show&Tell, Reanimate because it will slow them down). I would go with 2x Thorn and 1x Thalia (with 2 Karakas for Protection^^).
Cloudpost hasn't been very impressive for me so far. Without Vesuva or any land tutors, it will rarely net you extra mana due to the way the deck is set up. The only reasons I haven't dropped it yet are a) the life gain from Glimmerpost (I do think we need some life gain somewhere) and b) not having found a better alternative yet (I hate City, too be honest).
As for Canonist, it's still better than Thorn vs. Elves since they can mostly ignore Thorn.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Just stating Essence Depleter and Ruin Processor are alternatives to life gain from Glimmerpost
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bruizar
Depleter seems very cool since it gives us a way to handle excess mana and win through a stalled board. The initial black requirement is problematic, though, and requires to go back to the black splash. Ironically, it would play best with Post mana (if you can achieve it).
Ruin Processor is too expensive at :7: and processing as additional requirement just kills it. I would rather just run Jitte instead.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
Depleter seems very cool since it gives us a way to handle excess mana and win through a stalled board. The initial black requirement is problematic, though, and requires to go back to the black splash. Ironically, it would play best with Post mana (if you can achieve it).
Ruin Processor is too expensive at :7: and processing as additional requirement just kills it. I would rather just run Jitte instead.
I agree on Ruin Processor. At 7 mana, you are probably tapping Ancient Tombs for it. So the 5 life is probably only 3 or 1 life in practice.
The black mana encourages Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth which also helps reduce the damage taken from Ancient Tombs. So, a black splash is probably easiest on your life totals if you aren't using the post-manabase. Besides Jitte, there is Batterskull, and more fringe equipment such as Sword of War and Peace and Sword of Light and Shadow which can gain life. Sword of Light and Shadow is notable tech because it gives protection from Germ tokens and Stoneforge Mystic. In modern, Blue moon plays Batterskulls and the Eldrazi deck cannot really beat a resolved Batterskull.
Here is the replay of Eldrazi vs Blue Moon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awannXC4-eQ
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Ok, so finally got to take the aggro Eldrazi Stompy list to our weekly; went 3-1, losing in the finals. List was:
Creatures: (24)
4 Endless One
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Non-Creature Spells: (12)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
Lands: (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Sideboard: (15)
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Endbringer
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Spellskite
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
No changes from the last aggro list I posted.
Round 1: Adam (D&T)
In actuality, the guy rocked up with his Standard deck and got crushed. After our games I offered him up D&T to borrow for the day and he really enjoyed it. I tested one game and had Chalice on 1 while my opponent drew Plows and Vials. Only relevant creature opponent drew was Revoker, which got smashed over. Mana denial still really hampered us tho (he had double Wasteland), but luckily he drew no real beatstick, we smashed.
Round 2: Hamish (Grixis Control)
Game 1:
I think Chalice got forced, but Thorn resolved. Revoker and Endless One beats began as he Thoughtseized away a Smasher. He cast a Pyromancer that got Wailed and then Thought-Knot backed up by Wasteland stifled him too much to continue.
-2 Dismember
+ 2 Endbringer
I might of trimmed something to bring in two Wails and two Bombs for Pyromancer, but I'm not sure.
Game 2:
Grizzly Bear Endless One came out after a Chalice got forced, I think. Opponent resolved a t3 Blood Moon... But I drew Mimic and then Grizzly Bear and Goblin Piker beats got the job done as my opponent drew bricks?! Sweet. In actuality, Blood Moon could've completely wrecked my face... Not sure if we should bother with some kind of answer to it (though I guess Bomb counts, in a way). Or just hope we're Smashing before it comes down.
Round 3: Steven (Goblins)
Game 1:
Steve mulled to five and double Thought-Knot shredded away all his relevant Goblins (Ringleader etc.). I took a billion damage to keep Dismembering a Warchief in response to a lethal Gempalm on my Seer. This pays off, as I draw another Seer and the 4/4s bring it home.
-4 Thorn
-4 Chalice
+2 Wail
+2 Needle
+2 Ratchet Bomb
+2 Spellskite
Game 2:
Steve happily goes Mountain Vial... And I have Needle. He needs to use his mana to deploy Gobs. Matron's target of Krenko gets Thought-Knotted. I get Wasted a little but my hand is mana-heavy, and I have my own Waste for his Port. A Thought-Knot gets Pyrokinesised eventually, but Steve doesn't draw much significant. Eventually I get smashing and the little Goblins cannot chump block to live.
Match 4: Jeremy (Miracles)
Game 1:
The deck finally poops on me. I mulligan to five after neither hands have Sol Lands nor disruption. My five is good though - T1 Thorn (gets Forced) plus Revoker which is strong vs. Miracles. Revoker and Endless One beats continue as I pace my threats, though my hand is cluttered with 2 Seers and a Smasher I cannot cast (the mulligan was rough, all I needed was a land!). My opponent stabilises at two but then Mentor + two Tops (even when cast expensively with a Thorn that's on play) get the game for him.
-2 Dismember
+2 Warping Wail
Game 2:
Same deal - Revoker and Endless One beats backed up by a Thorn. I again pace my threats... My opponent forgets to Miracle his naturally drawn Terminus and then idiots win the game.
-4 Eldrazi Mimic
+2 Pithing Needle
+2 Ratchet Bomb
I expected the game to go longer on the draw, and the Mimic topdecks are not where I want to be... Though maybe we just need to keep more threats against Miracles? I'm not sure.
Game 3:
Chalice on 1 gets Forced, Thorn resolves and then another Chalice comes down from me. I'm not able to apply enough pressure because all I have is a Revoker on Top and on Jace, while again Seers and Smashers sit in my hand. My opponent eventually resolves a Counterbalance, I give zero shits... Until he has Mentor in play and I have to resolve a Ratchet Bomb to push through - Thorn also screwed me over becuase I continually needed to tap Wasteland, Temple and Tomb to cast things... Which does a number on my life total. Of course, my opponent blind flips the Snapcaster he needs to counter the Bomb, Ancient Tomb has brough me down to a super low life total and Mentor is enough to kill me.
So ended up 3-1 (though first round doesn't really count, I guess). Miracles felt easy when I've played it before, but alas, the deck is pretty high-variance at times and the clunky draws are real. Their man-plan is also quite an issue if you don't pressure them fast enough - though I still don't think we want Dismembers in the main for Mentor (despite how much a pain in the ass he is). That being said, I was still happy with the list, I think the only sideboard slot I want to worry about is the Endbringer, it's been pretty lacklustre so far. I actually love the techonology of Sea Gate Wreckage (as someone mentioned before) to gas up in this matchup; unlike Endbringer this is uncounterable, and most MUs where we bring Wreckage we need not fear Wasteland. Might try this next time.
Any thoughts on how I sideboarded or anything? Also... Some answers to Mentors and co.?
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ChemicalBurns
snip
Pithing Needle is probably not good enough versus Miracles in my opinion. There are many draws where you get wrecked by things besides Top. I'd rather have the extra Endbringers to maintain threat density so that you can pace your threats effectively. It also shoots down Mentor tokens, albeit slowly.
How was Simian Spirit Guide for you? Did you feel like you needed the extra velocity? In my testing, at least, it seemed like I didn't really need it, and would prefer to have some higher impact cards in those slots to make the deck a little more resilient to disruption.
As for Blood Moon, there's always Mind Stone, but that card is so durdly and feels wrong to be playing in an aggro shell. More proactive answers are extremely expensive and/or unreliable: All is Dust, Oblivion Stone, Spine of Ish Sah, Coercive Portal, Ulamog, etc. And finally, last and definitely least, there's basic Wastes, and if red Stompy decks and Painter variants are so omnipresent in your meta that we're talking about basic Wastes, I'd probably play a different deck.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ChemicalBurns
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
So ended up 3-1 (though first round doesn't really count, I guess). Miracles felt easy when I've played it before, but alas, the deck is pretty high-variance at times and the clunky draws are real. Their man-plan is also quite an issue if you don't pressure them fast enough - though I still don't think we want Dismembers in the main for Mentor (despite how much a pain in the ass he is). That being said, I was still happy with the list, I think the only sideboard slot I want to worry about is the Endbringer, it's been pretty lacklustre so far. I actually love the techonology of Sea Gate Wreckage (as someone mentioned before) to gas up in this matchup; unlike Endbringer this is uncounterable, and most MUs where we bring Wreckage we need not fear Wasteland. Might try this next time.
Sea Gate Wreckage would not have worked as you can only draw if your hand is empty - I would much rather play Mishra's Factory/Factories to have some action if you get Terminused. Factory is almost never dead and great against all kinds of control decks.
How about adjusting your list to 2-3 Thorns and the manabase to:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Mishra's Factory
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Imho any less than 4 Caverns is just plain wrong in the Legacy metagame. It lets you disregard your opponent and happily play your stuff. It's one of the main strenghts of the deck that gives blue decks alot of trouble.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
Imho any less than 4 Caverns is just plain wrong in the Legacy metagame. It lets you disregard your opponent and happily play your stuff. It's one of the main strenghts of the deck that gives blue decks alot of trouble.
Agreed. Fixes mana and nullifies the stack
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
You are an agro creature deck, with some high CC cards (4 and 5). I would play Mishra's Factory over Wasteland all day in a deck like that.
I also agree that it is WRONG to not have 4 Caverns in your 75. They don't have to all be main deck, but they all have to be there.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
I was thinking about whether or not Descendants' Path + Sylvan Library + Conduit + Mutavault could be made relevant in a green-heavy list, but I don't think it's worth the trouble.
Food for thought: But why not go a different route? A B/W Helm Combo/Eldrazi hybrid:
Sol manabase, Cavern of Koilos, Cavern of Souls, Urborg, Mox Diamond, and the other usual suspects as mana base.
4x Leyline, a few copies of RiP for consistency, multiple copies of Helm
Displacer, Wasteland Strangler (repeated creature kill with the Displacer + Strangler if an exile effect is in place), TKS, Smasher
Fill the rest of the slots with disruption and/or other Eldrazi.
Something like this (just rough numbers):
Mana: 28
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Mox Diamond
Eldrazi: 16
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Wasteland Strangler
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
Disruption: 7
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
Combo: 9
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Rest in Peace
3 Helm of Obedience
Edit: Included a rough sideboard:
1 Banishing Light
1 Rest in Peace
1 Helm of Obedience
2 Karakas
3 Warping Wail
2 Conduit of Ruin
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Containment Priest
2 Ratchet Bomb
I call the deck "Eldrazi with Hats on". :laugh:
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
Imho any less than 4 Caverns is just plain wrong in the Legacy metagame. It lets you disregard your opponent and happily play your stuff. It's one of the main strenghts of the deck that gives blue decks alot of trouble.
Certainly. I'm still trying to gather experience with the various builds of the deck, but one thing that I am sure of is that Cavern is very good, and I probably won't go below 4. Some folks are shaving Eye to 2 or 3, and the same with City. But Temple, Tomb, and Cavern of Souls are definitely 4s in all my builds.
Force is everywhere, and Daze is also pretty common. There's also Counterspell and Counterbalance to consider. I'm still on colorless, so I'm not getting "full value" out of Cavern, but I'm always happy to draw 1 or 2.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
After some playtesting, "Eldrazi with Hats on" is just too much of a pile to be any good. :rolleyes:
Back to the way better G/W build.
@MD.Ghost: How would you build the GW manabase without post? As I said, I'm unimpressed the Cloudpost manabase and a third Eye would be nice.
