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Don't think that Sea Sprite is only in the deck because of Goblins. Red is the second most common remoaval color being run in Legacy. Sea Sprite will greatly help out the Goblin matchup, as well as the UGr Thresh, Red Death, R/G Beatz, BDW, Sligh, etc. matchups. Weatherseed Faeries are a good replacement, but slightly harder to cast.
Rainbow Efreet is a beast in the control matchup, but I can't even imagine how long I'd have to wait to get the 3UUU I'd need to cast it.
I played this deck lately in our local Vintage tournament just for fun and to get used to the deck for later at the Legacy tourney. Surprising results.
I know this is not a good example of anything, but I thought it was funny. I added a Mox Sapphire to make it type one lol (mainly because I only own 3 Chrome moxes anyway). It's single elim by the way.
Faerie Stompy vs powered Oath.
I start off winning the roll and dropping Tomb, Chrome mox, Cloud of Faeries, untap, drop Sword. go to 17 life.
He plays Mox emerald, Island, Oath meeting FOW. No backup Yes!
Rest of the game is him scrambling to drop another oath giving me 2 tokens in the process and the Faeries proceed to smash. He gets the oath the turn before I swing for the win.
Next game is about the same
I drop island, go
He drops Island, go
I drop faeries, untap and Jitte. He lets it go.
He drops tropical, oath, I FOW, He FOW's, I FOW back again. Yes! Dumped hand but least I have no Oath to deal with.
Jitted faerie goes all the way again with his buddy Sea Drake drawing a mana leak, but too bad I actually have the mana now to pay for it. They end the game together.
Next game
Not sure exactly what he was playing, but it was a massacre. It had black in it. I think it was a reanimator of some sort.
No contest, he must have drawn badly.
Food Chain Goblins (full power) vs Faeries!
I win roll.
I drop ancient tomb, mox, faeries, Sword. Man I love that start.
He drops Lackey.
Sword eats lackey drawing another sword and sea sprite comes down to guard.
He drops Warchief off mox, go
Sea Drake and Jitte come out to play.
He plays Gobby Recruiter and stacks for the kill
I play another sword, equip both it and jitte on Sprite. Swing for win
Board in 4 Chills and another Sea Sprite. (we have a ton of red here)
Next game he gets early chief off moxes. I can't remember much of the game but it's fairly back and forth. He pulls off the combo with sharshooters and seige gangs though.
Next game was no chance. :(
I drop island, go
He plays mountain, sol ring
I play ancient tomb and Serindib.
He drops food chain and commences to combo into 2 seige gangs, 2 piledrivers, and a warchief. Smash. Wow... I keep forgetting gobbos can do that ridiculous stuff sometimes.
I guess that's what I get for playing this in Vintage anyway. Least I kicked out an Oath deck.
Oh well it was funny and let me know some of the strengths of this little deck. It's evolved quite a bit from the old Blue Sligh from a long time ago and to be honest is nothing like that original deck anymore. I'll have to let you know how I do in the Legacy with it. I think I'm going to like this deck.
Well Faerie Stompy can work in Vintage i made a unpowered Version of the deck and finally got this:
// Lands
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Seat of the Synod
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
5 Island
1 Strip Mine
// Creatures
4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Trinket Mage
4 Cloud of Faeries
1 Darksteel Colossus
// Spells
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox
1 Trinisphere
1 Black Lotus
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Black Vise
1 Tinker
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Force of Will
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
But the time hasnīt come for Faerie Stompy to be a DTB in Vintage...
Lol, yeah I play this against vintage decks too, and often do well.
Since we can only play 1 Chrome Mox and 1 Fact or Fiction in Vintage and since we usually allow five proxies, I make these changes...
-3 Chrome Mox
-2 Fact or Fiction
+1 Black Lotus
+1 Mox Sapphire
+1 Trinisphere (Black Vise is a great idea too)
+1 Ancestral Recall
+1 Time Walk
Now getting back to topic...
As someone mentioned, some decks splash red for removal and the only monored or heavy red decks are sligh, burn and goblins of which only the last sees any play. Of those decks that splash red, they often splash for Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning and that's about it. And frankly, if they hit my 2cc il-vec with that, I'm usually very happy as that's one less burn spell that can kill my Sea Drake.
Also with the 2 il-vec I'm running that draws cards, and the fact that I am running 8 Islands and 2 Seat of Synod which reduces the likelihood of mana screw, do you think I made the right decision in running Fact or Fiction instead of Thirst for Knowledge??
I really want to know that. I always get a bomb or usually 2 bombs off of Fact and Thirst often left me with nothing useful and no card advantage either bc I had to discard two cards, so I really want to tune the deck to best support Fact or Fiction over Thirst for Knowledge.
Do you think the 10 Islands and 2 il-vec are enough to support that change?
I understand your thinking that Sea Drake > 1/1, but don't forget that this deck run equipment, and an unremovable weenie with a sword or jitte on it is much more valuable than a Sea Drake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
I'm not replacing my Sprites, but as to il-vec in general, his ability is quite impressive, but don't forget that Flying > Shadow. One of my (and Eladriel's) favorite functions of this deck is that we get to dictate tempo by blocking when we want, and bashing face when we want.
As to your question of optimizing your FoFs, you should def start running fetches. Facts can often get clogged with useless accel and fetches can help thin some mana producers out.
Got my hands on 4 foil SoFI today. Soooo nice.
Just got done wrecking face against another Faerie Stompy player today.
A few things about the mirror match:
Side in four misdirections, if you pack them. I quite enjoy smacking my opponent for 6 when he tries to psiblast my creatures or me.
Put any creatures you have into play as soon as possible. Don't hold them off to FoW or anything.
Chalice is completely useless. Laugh at them when they cast it. Nothing like watching him drop a chalice for one, then I drop a one land sea drake, go, third turn win. Thanks for stopping by.
You need to play the aggro role in this matchup, at all costs.
Obviously. Here're my experiences:Quote:
Originally Posted by mikekelley
Binding Grasp, Misdirection, any potential extra Psionic Blasts come in for Sea Sprites, Chalices and possibly Needle (depending on your approach, one alternative is to side out Jittes and bring in Needles in hopes of Needling Jitte. SoFI is too good to take away though. Remember that the deck has nothing that survives a Blast, so it's a great way to win tempo with). Also, Binding Grasp is Misdirectable, very important to remember. Trinket Mages are nearly worthless, but they're still creatures and facilitate various plays for the next turn by ensuring the availability of the mana. SoFI is also a nuclear bomb in the mirror, and equipped creature often spells game, although it rarely can actually kill opposing creatures (life advantage matters a lot in that you can afford to take hits from SoFId creatures, and hit back harder, even without SoFI).
EDIT: Oh, and Chalice, regarding game 1. If you know you're in FS-mirror, try to drop it for 0 after playing your Moxes, Vintage-style, or at 1 to protect your Jitte from Needle.
Eldariel, have you read the comments on il-vec. What do you think of his pros and cons?
Phantom, I think someone showed that statistically, the thinning of fetchlands is insignificant even with moderate card draw. I don't think it's worth the life loss, esp considering all the life you already lose from Ancient Tomb and Psionic Blast.
Remember this deck only runs 3-4 card drawers. You only play about one per game, so I think it likely is insignficant.
If someone has the link to stats on fetches, I would love to see them.
Experience tells me Shadow is superior to Flying. Our meta has too many bigger flyers, from Exalted Angel to Mystic Enforcer to Reanimated Akromas. Normally, any of these, esp Akroma, can shut this deck down to a halt a turn or two before it can win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom
It helps to be able to swing thru them to draw cards off of SOFI, or gain Jitte counters without losing creatures.
Quote:
SOFI is what enables turn 3 kills, all while drawing you cards. How could that not be neccesary?
The way y'all keep talking about these turn 3 wins, how often does it actually happen? I've calculated some probabilities and I know this deck has a tough enough time just getting 3 mana consistently.Quote:
Nothing like watching him drop a chalice for one, then I drop a one land sea drake, go, third turn win.
Regarding the mirror match, I find that Jitte is awesome. An active Jitte will wipe out every opposing creature. Here's a quick example.
Quote:
What I do remember is, he played Umezawa's Jitte and I chose not to Force it, thinking I could either outpace it or draw out of it. The fatal flaw in my plan was the fact that my SoFI didn't kill his guy, nor him quickly enough to prevent his Jitte from wrecking me.
Sweet. I just got my playset of Arabian Nights Serendib Efreet. No more attacking with the green wine connoisseur.Quote:
Got my hands on 4 foil SoFI today. Soooo nice.
lol, green wine connoisseur.
The third turn win thing is pretty consistent for me. I get it about once in every 8 or 9 games.
City or Tomb and Mox, sea drake, go
turn two, drop a city or tomb, sword of fire and ice, equip, swing for 8, draw, go
turn three, play another sword-equip-attack for 12 or chuck a psi blast in their face after the attack or before, whichever you prefer.
Even if you couldn't do that, you could do it with Efreet which leaves them at 1 after three turns.
Nice. I, sadly, still have to turn green cards sideways in a monoblue deck. I'm ashamed to admit this since I was one of the first to pick this deck up, but I never got around to picking up Sea Drakes. I have no excuse since I knew how good the deck could be, and helped it get to the point it is now. God I'm dumb.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamest
@Clark: If you do like Shadow more than flying, Thalakos Scout deserves some testing in your build.
2U (3), Creature - Soldier 2/1
Shadow (This creature can block or be blocked by only creatures with shadow.)
Discard a card: Return Thalakos Scout to its owner's hand.
Whoa, Thalakos Scout is good, real good.
But honestly, I think I would miss the card drawing of il-vec too much. I'm not sure how important resilience of a 1/1 or 2/1 in a deck with 3/4s and 4/3s is, but draw is something this deck really needs.
Flying >>>>> Shadow Try to Block flying creatures with shadow creatures ^^ so many times you need that blocker to block first turn lackey. if i played goblins i wouldnīt stp any shadow creatures.. only if theyīre wearing equip... and we got draw.. well i got draw i play 4 thirst for knowledge and 2 facts... and no psionic blasts but iīm going to pack them in the deck... and donīt try those creatures with: Discard a card: Return ~this~ Creature to its owners hand... they are bad...
For everyother matchup shadow is better than flying since there are a ton of flyers in this metagame, and Serra Avenger adds one more, where as there are no shadows guys in Legacy other than the Soltari creatures all of which would have to trade with il-vec, something that I don't think most players would want to do.
If you fear first turn lackey, you could play one of your 16 other creatures turn one instead.
Goblins is dying out in most places anyways.
Maybe in place of the Sea Sprites. But I couldn't see running 4 maindeck. Maybe SB if your meta is shadow heavy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
I'm looking at the decklists and T8s for the last Duel for Duals Day 1-2, Worlds, and Mana Leak Open, and I see plenty of Goblins. It might not be as popular as before, but it probably remains the most played deck and the one with most appearances in the T8s of recent major Legacy tournaments.Quote:
Goblins is dying out in most places anyways.
It's not just first turn Lackey that's the threat. It's Piledriver, Hooligan, Warchief, Incinerator, Ringleader, Matron, Wasteland, Port ... dang every card in that deck is good against us. In my testing, I've gone 1st turn Drake on the play, 2nd turn SOFI equip attack, and still lost! How? 1st turn Vial, 2nd turn Hooligan, 3rd turn Incinerator.Quote:
If you fear first turn lackey, you could play one of your 16 other creatures turn one instead.
By the way, I won't argue with replacing Sea Sprite. I didn't run it in TMLO and neither did the T4 list.
I hope youīre speaking from the Tin Street Hooligan.. In that case who is playing Goblins with G-SPlash?? And how comes you donīt have any more Creatures or Jitte or something else to handle that..... thatīs strange...Quote:
Originally Posted by jamest
I'll move the discussion away from Looter-il-Kor to another interesting discussion.
Compulsive Research vs. Thirst for Knowledge.
The chief reason Research doesn't see play in other blue decks is bc Research is that it's a sorcery. This is because other blue decks play Mana Leaks or Counterspells and need to be able to leave lands untapped and at the end of your opponents turn, cast their card draw. This deck has no such need at all. In fact it's often better off playing draw during it's own mainphase so you can cast any Chrome Moxs you draw and play stuff of them and things like that.
Now why is Research better than Thirst?
Two main reasons...
A.) You play 17 lands and 15 artifacts. But of those artifacts, the only ones you ever want to discard are 4 Chrome Moxes. Everything else, Jitte, Chalices, Needles are gamebreakingly powerful and you rarely like discarding them.
B.) As others mentioned, it sucks drawing land after you reach your 3-4 mana (read 2-3 land) need. You have little use for land after that and being able to discard them over business spells is a great boon.
I've actually used Compulsive in an Angel Stompy build splashed blue and found it to be rather good. As for in FS, the one issue is that late game, chrome mox are REALLY bad, whereas extra lands are at the worst mediocre (unless they're ancient tombs). I don't disagree with compulsive in this deck, I just think this may actually be a case where TFK may have an edge. Or at the very least, does it really make a huge difference either way?
Holy triple post batman, how did that happen!? :laugh:
Yes Chrome Moxes are extremely dead cards, but they're the only ones and you only run 4 of them.
Once you have the 3 mana to play Thirst or Research, you don't need more land anyways. And seeing as how you run 18 lands, you're more than 4 times as likely to have an extra land than a Chrome Mox. You can also always discard a Chrome Mox and some other junk card just like you could discard two cards for Thirst.
Also, my favorite thing about Research is that it lets me get away with running a solid 8 islands and 2 seat of synods for 18 lands, without having to worry about extra lands cluttering up my hand post draw, and without screwing my self out of blue sources in my opening hand a third of the games I play. I am even contemplating going up to 19 lands with 4 Researchs! :eek:
I'm guessing both of you guys are testing Research, so I really want to hear back from you after you've had a little more playtime with it.