yeah, but chances are, the artifact you need to kill is in play before you drop warchief, say chalice set to 1 on their first turn or needle set to vial, means no lackey, no vial before you kill it.
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yeah, but chances are, the artifact you need to kill is in play before you drop warchief, say chalice set to 1 on their first turn or needle set to vial, means no lackey, no vial before you kill it.
Hey here is my RG deck, I was wondering if anyone could give me advice on it. It is a pretty standard build but anything with the MD or especially SB you could help me out with is apreciated since im not sure what would be good for the general meta game after the banning of flash. So here is the list:
Land (23):
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
6 Mountain
2 Taiga
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
Artifacts (4):
4 AEther Vial
Creatures (33):
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Tin Street Hooligan
Sideboard (15):
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Krosan Grip
4 Pyrokinesis
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
I used to have a mono-R with 2 goblin tinkerers and REB + Tormods Crypt in the SB instead of Chalice and Grip. I also had one Goblin King(Engineered Plague) and 1 Sharpshooter in the SB. MD I had 2 Jitte at one point but found that they were too slow and goblins were too weak to power them up. I feel that this build with the Green splash is more versitile than the Mono-R version though head to head it maybe a little worse because you can wasteland taiga but the addition of Krosan Grip and Tin Street I think more than makes up for it, what do you guys think?
Your MD looks good, although I might run 1 more Taiga. Pyrostatic Pillar SB also doesnt seem so good, with Solidarity on the decline and Storm combo not need 10 storm anymore (and comboing before Pillar lands), that slot is probably better served as Engineered Explosives. My current SB is 4 Chalice, 4 Pyrokinesis, 4 Engineered Explosives, 3 Krosan Grip. Overall it looks good though.
Well I would drop 1 tin street hooligan for starters. Why? It has major dyssynergy with warchief, but Tinstreet is too good to pass up for MB but if you feel it doesn't work for you try tinkerer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onphyre
I would then also drop 1 Siege Gang for 1 Kiki Jiki, because he can copy any goblin which is major awesomesauce. Which also allows the 3rd turn Goblin win which is unlikely I know but is just awesomesauce when you see it.
I agree somewhat with Bovinious on pillar. If your meta plays Solidarity, SI, Belcher you probably want to run it. But if your meta doesn's have combo do not run it. I would also get rid of Chalice if your Meta doesn't play combo.
No, you keep the tin-street count as it is. There are so many relevant artifacts in the format. So what is warchief is in play congrats it is the only time it is bad and most of the time if warchief stays in play long enough for you to not use hooligan you should win the game anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosomo.
Kiki-jiki is win more. If you go in to top deck was with any deck like gro, zoo, or goblins siege-gang is always better.
Also cut a mountain for the 3rd tiaga, sometimes later in the game it is hard to find the green source even of you play 7 fetches, also wasteland is a major issue in the format currently so it shouldn't damage your manabase to badly,
What artifacts? Except for opposing vials and pithing needle what artifacts are hurtful?Quote:
Originally Posted by calosso
Kiki-jiki is sort of win-more but is very useful in a tight situation with low goblins.
But I agree with your mana base choice in this situation.
Uh, Umezawa's Jitte?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosomo.
Don't forget T.S. Hooligan (I love calling him this. He's like the T.S. Eliot of Vial Goblins) contributes to mana denial against Mox Diamond and Chrome Mox against decks that depend on these cards to stabilize against Goblins, and that it also picks of random roguery like Juggernauts, Masticores, the ever annoying Cursed Scroll, and everything in Stax and Affinity. I run 3 and would run 4 if I could figure out a way to do so without making the deck worse.
Jitte, Scepter, Sword of Fire and Ice, Cursed Scroll, and anything else that is random like Smokestack and crap.
Well Jitte is run usually only in aggro controls or some agrros and Usually the have powerhouses to keep the jitte beatsing alive and to benefit from it so kill the creatures and they stop on kill the one jitte since all decks that run jitte do not run many kill that 1 with a TS and you have boughten yourself enough time usually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jak.
Scepter:TS does nothing against it that is what sideboard Krosan Grips are for orim's chant lock.
Sword of Fire and Ice: Fish usually only runs this and almost all their creatures only have 1 backsides, target the creatures and same as Jitte the artifact is useless.
Cursed Scroll: Only Pikula runs this and if the pull this out and are at mid game to use it efficiently enough it is going to be tough to win anyway but only 1 TS is needed for this and if they get out 2 and have the mana to use them then it is usually GG anyway unless you have already gotten them almost dead.
Smokestack:It is so random to see stax at a tournie but if I see one those Grips come in handy and I might lose the first round to stax but I am willing to take the risk.
I've played so many matches with Goblins and I have to say tin street is mvp I only wish I could fit more in the deck..
He is a house I just choose to run 1 because I value creature contol higher than artifact kill. Then leave side for that. When I played goblins 3 TS side and 4 Grips side. It was dissynergy to draw a TS when they have no artifact when you could draw a all around creature.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceofWill
Kiki isn't necessarily win-more. It could be techy in the Cephalid Breakfast match-up.
The deck already has Mogg Fanatic against CB what more could you ask for!Quote:
Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges
Then add REB's (Ive gone back to these) and a few Pyrokinesis and your solid.
What is all this naysaying about Tin Street? Are you playing the deck correctly? I come upon the Warchief anti-synergy once every 20 games or so and its not even enough of a problem to lose.
Pyrostatic Pillar has been a bad card for quite some time. Drop a Tarmagoyf and just kill you with it? Storm up to 6 and make 12 goblins??
If Pillar is so bad what should I run instead of it? Crypt seems not as good anymore and neither does REB. Someone suggested Engineered Explosives but are those good enough for SB, what are they used to kill? I might add another Taiga lol the prob is they are expensive to buy and 2 seem to be working fine for me right now with my 7 sac/search lands, but i know 1 more would prob help more than it would hurt incase they double wasteland my 2 taiga's and a little extra chance to get green mana if i need it. For TS i find 2 a useful number, not to many not too little and like most people said the disynergy with warchief is rarley a problem because you do have those grips SB which will b in if you need TS badly anyway and u are getting a 2/1 haste for 1 if chief is in which seems pretty good to me. Thanks for the advice so far just need help on replacing Pillar right now I guess.
Explosives takes care of Empty the Warrens which is a scoop em up situation without them. It takes some of the combo off your back from Iggy Pop, TES, and Belcher.
It can also be used to destroy all kinds of goodies such as Jitte, Silver Knight, Engineered Plague (if your playing white) and Tarmagoyf.
Blowing up a Pithing Needle naming Vial and a Nimble Mongoose in one sweep is also game breaking.
I played at the dual land draft in SD and went from a 2 win in a row in the begining to a end 3-3. Why? Grow was evil. I underestimated the power and players that would use Goyf so I focused on Artifact kill with 3 TS main and I regreted it. R/G is not very viable anymore because of goyf. If Grow can stop you to a certain extent Goyf can plow them to a win. I had 2 kenisis main and I couldn't even come close to a win against them. Then when I boarded out TS for more creature kill they board in 2 more Needles.
And for Bane overthere, I love explosives that is dangereous and techy but seems right is the SB.
how many of you guys advocate the use of the goblin goon?
I played against goblins twice at the same event Nosomo has been talking about, and the only reason that I had lost those matches was because I had never heard of that such card, which both had been running.
I can see the body fitting right in, and your opponent will rarely run more creatures than you... especially if you run it as a 1-2 of in the deck.
is this just a rogue idea that they came up with, or just something not condoned by the goblin community?
in a high goblin meta do you guys ever consider running 1 pyromancer main to wrath the opp. EOT so you can kill them your turn?
what would you board against the mirror in that case?
IBA has run goon in goblins in the past. I personally don't like him because if you have more creatures than your opponent you should be winning. as a tutor target I'd rather have ringleader every almost 99% of the time for the same mana and against plague if they are playing black they can remove him if hes your only guy or just play more creatures while you sit under plague.
As for pyromancer he isn't always a wrath of god. I've played the mirror against a player with pyromancer many times and usually what they will do is not over commit and try to use pyromancer while I have a ton of guys. If they aren't over commiting then I'll usually have a gempalm in hand and just save mana cause I see it coming. In the end they tap out for mancer and I gempalm him before eot and sit with overwhelming board position.
Explosives are a meta call for Threshold and similar type Blue-based aggro control decks, as well as things packing Empty the Warrens. I like them personally due to their ability to be backup Engineered Plague slayers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onphyre
And when did Tormod's Crypt cease to be good in the eyes of the Legacy community? We're talking a card that doesn't slow you down in the slightest to cast that disrupts a lot of shit. Namely two of those new-fangled combo decks running around, Kid Ichorid and Cephalid Breakfast. It also hurts things like Iggy Pop, gives you outs against the ever underplayed Reanimator, can slow Survival in a pinch, and is just generally awesome. Sure, it doesn't single-handedly shut any of these decks down, as most decks can recover from a Crypt, but the Crypt isn't the only thing you're throwing at them. It's just an additional little card that can buy you a couple turns for 0 mana, and with Goblins that's generally all you'll need.
Personally, I just offed Chalice and decided to soak up my losses against Storm Combo (The match isn't even good if we -are- packing hate), and went with Pyrokinesis/Grip/Needle/Crypt in 4/4/4/3 increments, and have been quite satisfied with the results. I keep Explosives handy (Like, in the box, unsleeved) if I expect Tarmogoyfs or Empty the Warrens, though.
I thought goblin goon was more of a meta call like sharpshooter or Kiki-Jiki, it may warrant some thought now that it dwarfs Tarmogoyf on most occations.