Putrid Imp helps you play through Crypt, as well Chain of Vapor/Ancient Grudge can be good answers to Crypt as well.
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Putrid Imp helps you play through Crypt, as well Chain of Vapor/Ancient Grudge can be good answers to Crypt as well.
@Bovinious as for the list I played I actually only played 1 cephalid sage and 4 cabal therapy. Also the only reason I was playing life from the loam was I couldn't find a 4th thug. I really wanted thug in every given situation during the tourney. You can play through crypt without needles. If you look at my matchup against red death I got crypted for over half my deck and still won.
You went to eight cards and started using your discard phase, dumping shit into the rfg pile rather than the graveyard. If you really had CoV in your hand your foolish.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceofWill
Platinum Angel is the shit. Sometimes Sage wont be good because you cant kill your opponent for some reason. Ghostly Prisons, Confinement, whatever.. Angel just says you dont lose. People scooped to it.
Did you see what I was dumping? my hand was terrible but I wasn't going down to 5 when I had a hand with leyline CoV land.
I am def playing 2 sage in my next tourney with the deck although I'm not sure if I will keep the ancestors chosen or switch to platinum angel.
I dont really see how Platinum Angel is all that good, your opponent wont scoop to it if they have any sort of sweeper/burn/targetted removal/artifact kill, in fact I cant think of a single deck that doesnt have one of these things.
Isn't this deck more like Bridge from Below/Dread Returns combo than it is Ichorid combo?
Anyway, I have faced a situation twice in the past dozen or so games that I have 3 Narcomoebas in play and no (or 1) Bridge from Belows in the graveyard. What do you do here? Assuming you've run out of ways to draw (Deep Anal, Cephalid Colliseum) outside of Dread Returning Cephalid Sage, do you just wait until the next turn, dredge something and hope to hit a Bridge? The other option is to sac the Narcomoebas, dredge most of the rest of your library, and next turn bring back 3 Ichorids to Dread Return a FKZ for lots of Zombie tokens.
I'm just trying to make sure I'm not missing something obvious :)
With Breakthrough, Deep Analysis, Narcomoeba, and Cephalid Sage all in this deck, and Chain of Vapor in sideboard, what are the thoughts on Force of Will as a sideboard option? You're usually going to lose most of your hand pretty quickly anyway, and opening hand Narcomoebas kind of blow.
I'd run force of will if it could counter turn 0 leylines which is this decks biggest problem. I find that other combo decks (that don't run leyline) are not huge threats to you. You can race them and have therapies. What exactly would you bring in force of wills against?
We really dont have enough blue cards to support FoW, especially considering you would almost never want to pitch a Breakthrough or the lone Cephalid Sage. Also Force just doesnt seem like a better answer to anything, what would you need it to stop?
Yeah I shouldn't have scooped round 6! But I was hoping you'd take control out of the top 8 because I'd rather see ichorid across the table from me than anything running force and daze.
As far as I could tell from your post, Cabal therapy seemed like the decks MVP card all day. Hitting yourself with it speeds the deck up and later being able to flash it with an ichorid post-combat main seems tight. Also, the early game pressure it applies, especially against control, keeps them on the defense the whole game.
I realized I was going to say exactly what Bovinious said but I do completely agree. LFtL seems like a weak reason to cut a solid card like therapy. Is there no other cut to make?
I didn't cut therapy for life I cut the 4th thug because I couldn't get it. I cut a therapy for a sage because so far I have been finding dread returning sage is almost always gg.
Has anyone concidered/tested Crippling Fatigue as a SB Option vs. MM or Sutured Ghoul + Breath against multiple Extirpates/Crypts..?
That 2 mana would be the problem there. 2 mana is really tricky for us to consistently get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valdez
I also support the use of Platinum Angel. It's a big surprise for most decks when they realize they didn't plan on having to deal with artifacts Game 2. You can usually clear out any relevant creature removal (i.e. Swords to Plowshares, one of the few removal spells in the format that can deal with it) before Dread Returning it. It's a 5 turn clock (usually less because you have zombies) and you're untouchable. Also good if you deck yourself. I strongly recommend it as a sideboard option.
So here's my SB:
4 Chalice of the Void - Set at 0, preempts Tormod's Crypt.
3 Chain of Vapor - Standard anti-Leyline weaponry.
3 Reverent Silence - Main reason to run duals + fetches and not rainbow lands.
2 Ray of Revelation - Good off of an Lion's Eye Diamond?
2 Tropical Island - I always loved having lands in the board. -2 Sea, +2 these when siding in Rays and Reverent Silences.
1 Platinum Angel - She's a beauty.
And the maindeck, just for kicks. Pretty standard except for the manabase. Also, if anyone has Bridges from Below for sale, send me a PM.
// Lands
4 [OD] Cephalid Coliseum
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [U] Underground Sea
1 [FS] Dakmor Salvage
// Creatures
4 [FS] Narcomoeba
4 [TO] Ichorid
4 [FS] Street Wraith
2 [RAV] Flame-Kin Zealot
2 [TO] Cephalid Sage
4 [RAV] Golgari Grave-Troll
4 [RAV] Stinkweed Imp
3 [RAV] Golgari Thug
// Spells
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [FS] Bridge from Below
3 [TS] Dread Return
4 [TO] Deep Analysis
4 [TO] Breakthrough
However, ever since Gencon I've been wondering: What makes this deck better than Cephalid Breakfast? What do you guys think?
I definately wouldnt say Ichorid is better than Breakfast, Breakfast is probably the best deck in the format, but it does have some advantages, such as less vulnerability to counterspells and a greater chance of winning turn 1-2.
Ernest Turck, Lion's Eye Diamond
2007 Legacy Championship Top 8
Main Deck
60 cards
7 lands
4 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Underground Sea
1 Dakmor Salvage
25 creatures
3 Putrid Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
2 Cephalid Sage
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Stinkweed Imp
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
28 other spells
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
2 Careful Study
4 Deep Analysis
4 Breakthrough
3 Dread Return
3 Lotus Petal
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
15 sideboard cards
1 Unmask
4 Pithing Needle
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Tropical Island
1 Wonder
3 Reverent Silence
1 Chalice of the Void
this is the deck that I have been playing with(which its exactly this list because earnest got it from joe george, the same person i talked to to build my list) and it works wonders.
although my sideboard is a little bit different my sideboard kind of looks like this.
4 pithing needle
4 leyline of the void
4 chain of vapor
3 chalice of the void
i always felt that the sideboard earnest used was really bad. i never found the reason for 1 unmask or the 1 tropical witht eh reverent silences when most of the time u dont draw that land which makes 4 cards worthless. i have never tried the wonder but i might try it next week since the tourny i go to has a lot of empty of the warrens.
and as for if this deck is better than breakfast. i couldnt tell ya. they both made top 8 at gencon. and right now i would put necrobridge(thats the real name of the combo since the narcomebas and the bridges are the main combo) over breakfast because the guy who played breakfast had alot of testing before he played it and earnest picked up the deck the day of the tourny and didnt know what bridge's second part of the text said.
oh and also to all of the ppl here who have more than 2 undergrounds and the coluseums. maybe you should just try it. most of the time when i get a first turn or second turn i only need 1 land or a petal. that second mana only helps in a mirror matchup. in which it goes to who ever gets the better draws from your sideboard.
playing 6 land and 3 petal makes it a lot harder to cast chain of vapor/pithing needle. if you have breakthrough in your opener and no discard you would also want to have more land leading to the turn 3 win almost every time (granted this isn't as good as the turn 1 win but it improves consistency which is why I started playing the deck). That seems like it would be a lot less consistent especially since you took out 2 mana sources and made 3 of them one shot deals only to add a spell you need your lands/petal to cast. Also Your playing putrid imp gets a lot worse with that manabase.
What I dont understand about the GenCon list, other the the obvious downfalls like 1 Forest and 3 Reverent Silence, 3 Island and a Wonder, is why would you ever want Lotus Petal over a rainbow land? The only time Petal is better...I cant even think of a time to be honest, and it doesnt help you cast SB cards either if you have to play a business spell as well.
It's not better. My guess is that he couldn't find the rainbow lands, hence the awful mana base. I'm almost positive that unless you're running Wonder there is no reason not to run a rainbow land mana base.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bovinious
Speaking of which, I've been looking at other rainbow lands. I think the best are City + Mine, but is there anything else anybody thinks is any good?
I've considered Undiscovered Paradise and Tarnished Citadel, but those are both probably worse than Gemstone Mine. Citadel actually doesnt seem THAT bad, but the life loss you will already be suffering from City and Deep Analysis may make it too costly.