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so you play the 4 color version then? U/G/W/R? I don'tknow what your mana-setup looks like but you might wanna try and not run so many non-basics. Or maybe just add a land in general since you're more mana dependant.
we should analyze the advantage disadvantages to playing U/G/W over U/G/R or even play U/GW/R for the following matchups:
Goblins
Soliditary
Mirror (U/G/W-U/G/R-U/G/W/R)
dead guy ale
Landstill
Survival
Angel Stompy/White Controll
any other good decks you can think of
Adding a single copy of the non-blue dual is something I've considered, but never actually wanted. To fit it in, you either have to cut a blue source for it or up the land count, and it isn't worth either. I mean, I don't even run a basic Mountain.
I usually judge hands as keepable as long as they have blue mana and cantrips. Most everything else (including offcolor mana) will sort itself out as you fix your hand and draws.
Of course, my build is significantly different from yours, Wastedlife. I only have 4 red cards in the main. I also play 3 Counterspell, so I find nonblue lands poor in general. But what specifically does your manabase look like with the offcolor dual added?
Edited By Obfuscate Freely on 1135454174
My mana base looks like..
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Flooded strand
3 Volcanic Island
4 Tropical island
1 Taiga
1 Mountain
1 Forest
2 Island
It's amazingly stable, I rarely ever get color screwed.
EDIT: opps 4 trop.
16 lands, and only 13 blue sources? Did you type that out correctly?
Also, the UGr version can't support the taiga because if you are holding an island and a fetch, that fetch HAS TO BE A FOOTHILLS. Where in UGw, all of your fetches can find the savannah, too bad there are no off color fetches...damn wizards...
That is typed out correctly. As I have been playing wastedlife's exact decklist i can attest that the mana base is extremly stable with RR harder to get than any other combination. And RR is only needed later game so you normaly have it by the time you need to cast dragon. Otherwise the manabase is rock solid, along with the decklist as a whole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obfuscate Freely
No, I forgot a tropical island there are 17 lands. I'm just a dumbass.Quote:
Originally Posted by brolio
QFT (I've been doing that too much lately)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadishack
I've found many situations when I would want a Savannah, but I've never known what to cut for it. Incidentally, Polluted Delta doesn't grab it. My manabase looks like this:
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Windswept Heath
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest
I suppose I'd have to drop a fetch to put it in.
I've been tempted to switch to the red version for some time, but lately I've been playing Meddling Mage and he's just been a house (although I always seem to be a luck-sack and name exactly the cards they have in hand. Maybe I'll bust out those Peeks). How many people have tested the UGrw versions? It seems like you'd have to run exactly 0 non-basics (maybe an Island) and that seems dangerous. Especially when you won't have any room for Pithing Needle ;) Thoughts?
I find that eight fetches is too many. They really hinder the effectiveness of Predict, your vulnerability to wasteland, and your life points. I would recommend trying out my manabase from the gp-- I think I was only hurting for a color two games the entire tournament. 4 nonbasics works out fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego_Army_Man
@ Hat: I've never considered the anti-synergy of Predict and Fetches, but I believe you may have a point there. I'll go ahead and drop my count to three, but would you still recommend playing 17 lands over 18? That would leave me one more slot in the deck, and I don't really know what to do with it. Hmm, maybe I'll include both Mongoose and Meddling Mage main.
Right now I've got 14 cantrips, 10 counters, 4 Mage, 4 Werebear, 3 Mystic Enforcer, 18 lands, 4 Swords, 3 Pithing Needle. What would you recommend I did if I dropped a land, and what do you think about the other numbers?
That's basically what my list was only -1 land +1 cantrip. I've been pretty happy with 17 lands as long as you have needles for the wastelands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego_Army_Man
Hi everyone, I tested the mirror match against Mr.Nightmare tuesday. Nightmare was running U/G/w and I was running U/G/r, I ended up winning 13 out of the 16 games. The white version had a hardtime if I went full out aggro, But If I played control too long, I found myself with no cards in grip and not alot of creatures. I even came back and won a game I had no right winning, Nightmare had 2 enforcers and a bear, I had a goose. I took my turn being at 7, played a dragon and said," go." (he had a needle on dragon.) He swang balls out and lost 2 dudes to a fire/ice. I was at 1 and he still had an enforcer, I drew, then predict, double bolt, played goose and won shortly after. I typed this out to prove that this is one scenario where you can win out of enforcer. Many people think that U/G/r gro/ Threshold loses to a single enforcer which is not true. On a different note I'm with Ridiculous Hat oh the fetch lands because, honestly I hate seeing them when I have a predict in my hand. This is why I've never gone up to 6 or 7 fetch lands.
Wastedlife, you have an extremely burn-heavy list of UGr-- this is probably why you have a potentially easier time against UGw and enforcers. I'm not sure if that approach is correct but it is worth nothing that the normal number of burn spells is 6 or 7.
I don't see why everyone says my list is so burn-heavy. Yes it runs 12 burn spells but 8 of them cantrip. In my opinion magma jet is a cantrip, yes cantrips are supposed to draw cards. Magma jet scrys and is card advantage which should qualify for a cantrip. Yes, fire/ice is a cantrip I use Ice just as much as I use fire. My decklist may be different but it is still gro and follows the basic skeleton. It has 11+ cantrips, the 10 creatures, and the removal is higher because it doubles as a cantrip. Sorry if I come off defensive, but people need to see that magma jet, and fire/ice are not just burnspells. They may double as cantrips.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridiculous Hat
Edit: people shouldn't be afraid to try new things with gro/ threshold. One of the best things about the deck is that there is no solid list for it. Many people on this board are trying to stick to one list which in my opinion brings the deck down.
I really like the design that Wastedlife came up with. The high number of Scry cards makes Predict alot better, and means that you can avoid playing mediocre cantrips. The high amount of burn is great against Goblins and the mirror... which seem to be the most played decks atm.
Given some of the wierd stuff in the GP Lille lists that made it to day two, I think Wastedlife's list looks pretty normal. It's not running 4 colors, or Dryad, or Troll Ascetic, or Meddling Mage as a 2-of, or Vineleasher Kudzu (all of which appeared in various day two decks of the GP)... I think the extra burn in place of mediocre cantrips is fine.
One thing though on your list a few pages back looked like it totaled out to 61 cards- 17 land, 10 creatures, 34 spells... wasn't sure if I miscounted or if you mistyped the list or if you run 61 cards? I've been trying out your list -1 Magma Jet and it looks good.
I'm not saying your list is bad, I'm just saying that conventional wisdom does not apply to that matchup when you have double the normal amount of burn. Jet is close to a cantrip and I'm not deriding the card, but you can't really say that your list fits to normal conventions. Granted, not a lot is fitting to normal conventions at the moment, considering the format is about as wide open as it's ever been in terms of innovation-- but I'm just commenting on it.
Ok I lost this matchup in the cuse once. So I decided that I might put some insight into the deck. All versions of gro/thresh have at least Blue as a main color and Green as the next splash. But it's really not a splash.... this deck is main Ug with x as the meta goods. I have flirted with a 5 color 'skirt hike' where I include a lil bit of the best BLUE/GREEN (and/or X) components available. This encludes White for stp/enforcer, Red for dragon/bolt, and black for TOG/demise. The deck is filled with 'one of's' like a Survival deck. But with the search lands and draw, it's extreamly viable. I don't have the faith yet to post or play it, but once built, I don't expect the 'Cuse ringers' to turn it down. It seems all decks have Ug as their main idea. The splash is so easy, don't limit yourselves! (I won't post without results)
PS: draw+search= 5 color gro
The problem with 5c Gro (aside from obvious mana stability problems) is that the black cards you listed are inferior to the cards in the other colors. Tog is crap in Gro. I could explain why, but it's already been discussed, and this is a widely agreed upon fact. Between Mongoose, Enforcer, Werebear and Mage, you've no shortage of badass threats. Tog is superfluous. As for Demise, it's decent, but it's not better than StP and Bolt at their respective roles. If black deserves splashing at all, it should be for Night's Whisper, and maaaybe Dark Confidant. That's pretty much all. Given that 4c Gro already has a metric fuckpile of viable threats and draw, I don't really see the fifth color as being at all necessary, aside from the "look what I can do" factor.
I agree with Zilla. The only reason I could see adding black is for Night's Whisper, which is agreeably better than any cantrip we're playing yet. Dark Confidant seems too risky in a deck playing 4 Force of Will, and anything else that black offers seems to be taken care of in the other colors. I wouldn't want to run Duress or Therapy, so I'd shy away from the 5th color.
4 Color Gro provides some nice options, but the question is how the metagame is going to shape up. You seem to either be setting yourself up for Wasteland screw or color screw, neither of which seems to be worth the added power.
1st I thought the Black splash was kicked out of this thread???
But since it was brought up....
@Dark Confidant:This is the NUTS. It's a free draw, and beats for 2. If your worried about the Life Loss, it's not really a problem with Brainstorm, Serum Visions, and not to mention that your opponent will shoot, stab or remove it ASAP. Just remember the only life point that matters is your last. The other 19 are just resources to use for the WIN.