Maybe a single Mirror Entity for the Rebel toolbox (you creatures are very small exept for grunt) and a single Maze of Ith for the land toolbox (could be nice againt that annoying phyrexian dread or goyf)?
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Maybe a single Mirror Entity for the Rebel toolbox (you creatures are very small exept for grunt) and a single Maze of Ith for the land toolbox (could be nice againt that annoying phyrexian dread or goyf)?
I thought about it, the problem being that you can't go too far in this tutoring strategy. Knight of the holy nimbus and to a lesser extent CoK are good by themselves and are synergic with the rest of the deck (knight + mana denial saved me a couple of games). So is the lands package (as I said mishra's factory is quite nice against sweepers like deed). On the other hand, I think I wouldn't be happy to draw a maze of ith in alot of situations, and I don't have enough mana to make mirror entity really good (I'm often running on 2 or 3 lands). In short, I think they are too situational, even as singletons. I'll have to give it a gtry though.
My result of MC in Paris, France. 16/02/08
47 players
my list :
12 Plains
4 Wasteland
3 Karakas
2 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Serra Avenger
3 Mangara of Corondor
3 Stonecloaker
3 Silver Knight
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Weathered Wayfarer
2 True believer
4 Mana Tithe
4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Cataclysm
3 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard:
1 Jotun Grunt
2 True Believer
1 Cataclysm
3 Tivadar of Thorn
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Oblivion Ring
1 Ice floe
1st match : WG equipments- I loose the die roll.
Sword and creatures give me victory (2-0)
2nd match : Goblins R/b (finish 5th)- I loose the die roll
1 round : Wayfarer gives me recursive wasterland for destroying these bilands and Rishadan ports. Grunt kills.
2 round : Cataclysm+Tivadar+Jitte are too strong. (2-0)
3d match : Faery stompy (finish 7th)- I loose the die roll
1 round : I don't know what my opponent plays. I have Vial, sword, and one plains in my opening hand. He begins with City of traitors=>Chalice at one.
I can't do anything.
2 round : I begin with Vial. him, chalice at one. his knocks are stronger than mines, whith his flying creatures. I can't play my swords and no drawing my oblivions. (0-2)
Why I put a Ice floe in my side ? Maze of ith is better !
4th match : White stax- I loose the die roll.
Recursive wasteland and cataclysm (against his artefacts) do the job. (2-0)
In the first round he kept crucible of worlds on cataclysm, but after, i play grunt who replaces his lands under his library. Grunt is great against crucible !
5th match Faery stompy :frown:
I win the die roll (Yeahhh baby !!! )
1 round : Recursive wasteland and 3 serra avenger give me the victory.
2 and 3 round : I loose for the same reasons the 1st match against FS
I want Maze of ith !!!
6th match : Burn- I loose the die roll...again and again and...:mad:
1 round : he kills me on my turn 3, i have Jitte on board but no creature
2 round : he kills 3 True believer before me. I have Jitte on board but he kills my creatures when i equippe.
It's a bad day because i didn't have the mangara lock during this tournament. :cry:
Conclusion : D&T is a very good deck against control and aggro but aggro control is more difficult. The good cards in this tournment are :
1-Cataclysm
2-wayfarer+wasteland
3-oblivion ring
4-Grunt, because it's strong and it replaces my wastelands in my library.
The worst cards : True believer, Ice floe.
I'm going to cut the 2 true believer in maindeck for 1 maze of ith and 1 Epochrasite, to put one more true believer in the side and -1 ice floe.
Sorry for my bad translation french=>english
Hey guys, I have been tinkering with this deck for a couple of weeks, and I noticed some people around here have done away with the Jitte. It seems to make sense with the addition of Oblivion Rings, but I am wondering if that is a standard build.
Advice: don't do it if you're running the mono-w build. You can neglect it when you're running things like Goyf which is huge despite Jitte, or if you're cantripping into what you need. But Jitte on the mono-white weenie package is too good in D&T to let go. If possible Serra Avenger is almost always your best equip target. Isamaru often is a great target early on. Jitte is pretty much what allows you to outclass mid-range decks with your creatures.
I hate the card and think it's ruined alot of good game play. But I can't deny how good it is and even despite my inclinations to not run it when I have other options, it simply belongs in the mono-white builds. Just remember to keep your creature count high. It's what keeps death and taxes consistent. Try not to drop below 22 creatures, even that seems a bit few sometimes.
I can't stress this enough. I was running 20 creatures at one point. Top decking lands and Mana Tithes with no way to dig is the suck!Quote:
Originally Posted by Galroth
I can't stress this enough. I was running 20 creatures at one point. Top decking lands and Mana Tithes with no way to dig when you desperately need threats is the suck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galroth
What do you think is the best splash for D&T?
Green offers
- Gaddock Teeg MB/SB shuts off EE, Wrath, Force etc. Only thing that sucks is that he shuts off Cataclysm, too.
- Goyf.
- Krosan Grip in the Side to fight Deeds/random Enchantments/Artifacts you want to fight against
Black offers
- Dark Confidant, as teh Drawengine
- Thoughtseize
- Vindicate in the place of Oblivion Ring
Blue offers
- a bunch of cantrips
- Daze and FoW (only with heavy amount of Islands/Blue Spells)
- Meddling Mage SB
Did I forget anything?
Green seems kinda sweet but black and blue look nice, too.
Maybe we should not splash at all. Any suggestions?
And finally another question: What do you think are D&T good/average/bad Matchups...? This would help to decide which splash is the best :smile:
In the playing i've done with this deck, I perfer no splash, green is the best i've found. blue and black are ok, but green tends to run better for krosan grip, with all the artifacts and enchanments running around, and goyf is a nice beat for 2cc.
None whatsoever. Splashing makes you vulnerable to Wastelands, Moons, B2B, and makes it harder to use Cataclysm, which is the nuts in this deck. Splashing also makes you run fetchlands, which really hurts the Dragon Stompy matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joon
In the black splash, Vindicate is only a slight upgrade over Oblivion Ring. Thoughtseize is nice, and Bob is pretty sweet, but I'm not sure what matchups black improves enough to warrent the splash.
The green splash is worse. Gaddock Teeg helps with Storm, but that matchup is always going to be bad, and there are already plenty of white/artifact cards that help: Orim's Chant, Abeyance, Mana Tithe, Glowrider, Chalice of the Void, Thorn of Amethyst. Tarmogoyf is a great beater, but is anti-synergistic with the graveyard denial strategies of Samurai of the Pale Curtain, Jotun Grunt, and Stonecloaker. Krosan Grip does very little that Oblivion Ring, Disenchant, and Mangara don't do already.
Blue isn't that great either. Brainstorm, Ponder, Stifle, Meddling Mage, Leyline of Singularity was always fun, but I've never had a build that ran enough blue to use Force of Will or Daze, which is the biggest reason to add blue.
I just don't see how splashing adds to the deck. You make yourself more vulnerable to mana denial which hurts the Aggro Loam, Dragon Stompy, The Rock, and Vial Goblins matchups. Since the cards I've seen cut the most from these lists are Stonecloaker, Jotun Grunt, and Samurai of the Pale Curtain, which hurt the Ichorid, Threshold, and Loam/Confinement matchups to name but a few decks that use the graveyard, I have to ask all you guys who splash in D&T -- What do you gain that offsets these losses?
I have tried that blue splash (the deck began blue/white) and black splash. I lik black the most, but I still play monowhite because I like disabling opponent disruption.
Hi!
I have been playing DaT successfully on the local weekly tournament (the meta is like the t8 in most larger tournaments. Iīm very interested in developing the deck further. Shadowmoore is comming, and I have found two interesting cards:
Order of Whiteclay cc3
Creature - Kithkin Cleric (R)
3 untap: Return target creature card with converted mana cost 3 or less from your graveyard to play.
1/4
Augury Adept cc3
Creature - Kithkin Wizard (R)
Whenever Augury Adept deals combat damage to a player, reveal the top card of your libary and put that card into your hand. You gain life equal to it's converted mana cost.
2/2
Do you think that any of these cards might be strong enough? DaTs largest weakness has been the lack of card drawing (even though the card economics is good), Augury Adept may fit the card drawing spot. The Order of White Clay may strengthen the card economics and bring back previously killed/countered creatures.
Both look interesting, especially the draw engine one that fits into the mono white package, but another better card just popped up in the enchantment category that helps the bad combo matchup:
Runed Halo
ww
Enchantment Rare
As Runed Halo comes into play, name a card.
You have protection from the named card. (You can't be targeted by it, and all damage that would be dealt to you by it is prevented)
#21/301
The only thing it doesnt help against is ETW, but ghostly prison sb fixes that. Plus, its an enchantment, protecting from creature hate, and is essentially a time-walk enchantment against tendrils while they waste time grabbing removal from their sb.
That is very interesting. Considering that one and the recent Thorn of Amethyst, I think there are finally enough combo hate cards at reasonable costs to make that matchup good.
I understand that Runed Halo is a sideboard card and people tend to run True Believer in the main, but is it that much better than existing sideboard options that we'd want to run the Halo too?
Whiteclay and Adept seem too slow: a Resurrecting Yotian Soldier seems fun-but-slow in this deck, and a non-evasive costly bear will attack on turn 4 (cast) or 5 (vial) and be blocked and killed by almost any other creature that's out on turn 2. Perhaps the question to ask is: what would you take out for these? D&T already runs a ton of 3-ofs, indicating that the deck is tightly packed as it is.
Between the other colors, I'de have to say that black splash seems to help more. Confidant is a very nice engine, which can be pretty threatening once equipped with the jitte (then again what creature isnt? :laugh:).Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
Finn, when you made your D+T deck and splashed black, did we have the same build? Heres how I spashed black in D+T...
4X [CARD]Karakas[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Flooded Strand[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Scrubland[/CARD]
3X [CARD]Godless Shrine[/CARD]
2X [CARD]Plains[/CARD]
1X [CARD]Swamp[/CARD]
1X [CARD]Volrath's Stronghold[/CARD]
3X [CARD]Flagstones of Trokair[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Aether Vial[/CARD]
3X [CARD]cataclysm[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Dark Confidant[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Samurai of the Pale Curtain[/CARD]
4X [CARD]True Believer[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Mangara of Corondor[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Swords to Plowshares[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Thoughtseize[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Cabal Therapy[/CARD]
3X [CARD]Umezawa's Jitte[/CARD]
SB: 3 [CARD]Kataki, War's Wage[/CARD]
SB: 4 [CARD]Mother of Runes[/CARD]
SB: 4 [CARD]Warmth[/CARD]
SB: 4 [CARD]Extirpate[/CARD]
Mother of Runes for me seems to warrant a side board in case I run into decks packing alot of removals. Other than that I think the rest ispretty self explanatory.
I really, really, would like to add vindicate in the list, however, I keep thinking to myself... is it really worth it? Just doesn't seem like it is needed.
Hi!
I canīt really understand why people still play True Beliver. Every deck that he is good against got answers for it (Solidarity has like 5 cards in SB that the can fetch with Cunning Wish+ one or more echoing truth in main). Most of the time itīs just a 2/2 for WW, not very optimal.
DaT is NOT a 8-land stompy, itīs an aggro/controll deck. The deck does not win on fast damage, but boardcontroll and card economy (playing the stonecloakers/mangaras etc right).
While it is just a 2/2 for WW, he still does trades with quite a bit of creatures. Yes it is true that many decks has an answer for it, many decks has an answer or some form of a silver bullet against othe problems as well. Should that stop you from playing the card? They can find the answer all they want, like you said they can fetch an answer form their side board. But that just delays them even more. They used their tutor to find a way around the creature, instead of getting their win card.
True Believer has quite alot of use in my area. Many decks are packing hand destruction, few burn decks running around, and several combo decks running around. Granted I play an uphill battle against fast weenie decks, but it just comes down to who has the jitte, and can I stall long enough for cataclysm.
If you play True believer in main deck, i think Absolute law is better than Warmth in SB. True believer + Absolute law = victory against Burn (be careful at Anarchy). and Absolute law is better against Gob and Aggroloam RG.
In your deck list i don't like Flagstones of trokair with Samurai OTPC. Perhaps Jotun Grunt is better.
6. Reanimator - Is that a turn 1 Akroma? I play Karakas, gg.
Good reanimators are running akroma anymore... Just a FYI
Your better getting rid of mana base than creatures