[Deck] Affinity

When Ad Nauseam was first spoiled, people tried to fit it into their existing Storm Combo decks. At that time, I created a thread called ANT, to design a Storm Combo deck around the card (Ad Nauseam) because it was so damn powerful. That idea (ANT) happened to turn out very well.

Since people seem divided on whether or not Tezzeret fits into their Affinity deck, I made a Tezzeret Affinity thread for discussions involving building an Affinity deck around Tezzeret. I think Tezzeret is this decks Ad Nauseam.

Tezzeret is a better Affinity planeswalker than Jace is.

Affinity is not a control deck that wants to grind out card advantage.
Affinity is a deck that wants to play it's entire hand in one turn.

Grim Monolith perhaps maybe the missing key?
When combined with 2 mana lands, and Mox Opal, you have a 5c accelerator.

However, since this is a Vial Affinity thread, new discussion is suitable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justin

As someone who has played Affinity since 2004, the idea of cutting Ravager and Disciple seems like blasphamy. But you make some great points. I thiking cutting them is the way to go and use those eight slots for Tezz and cards that support him.

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Yeah, Ravager used to be the heart of that deck. But then, Broodstar was the heart before that. And at one point, the deck even ran Vial. The thread's called Vial Affinity and everyone has replaced Vial with Drum. Frogmite and Myr Enforcer were once key players. When you think about it, the only Affinity card the deck even runs anymore is Thoughtcast and it's almost obsolete because of Glimpse. But personally, I'm hoping it doesn't catch on until after Indy. I don't want to play against it there. I think my initial thoughts were a little off; you can't run too many 2-3 drops or you're too slow. Maybe Signal Pest has a place after all. I still think that Revoker main is a good idea.

Affinity is an explosive deck. But so is Merfolk. So is Goblins. Elves just breaks the mold when it comes to exploding. They're all as fast as Affinity but Fish and Goblins both have disruption to back their explosiveness, and that's why they always perform better against the meta than Affinity. But with decent early disruption creatures like Revoker, Affinity has a chance to be on par with Goblins or Fish. I see two directions you can go with the new cards. You can do what Hanni is doing and go the all in fast combo route. Which I think would work. Or you can go back to Vial, slow yourself down some, but pack Wastelands and maybe Ports in and try and go Fish/Gobbo style. You back your fast beats up with disruption. You have standalone threats that Fish doesnt' have but your disruption package is a bit weaker. I dunno, just randomly musing now.

I think the best way to use Tezzeret is to not rely on him. Tezz is good... but he's not Ad Nauseam good.

The biggest weaknesses in Affinity are that sometimes it can't finish the job and that it can't recover well from a board wipe. Tezzeret helps with both these issues and the deck's late game in general. That said, here's a list I'll throw out there. I'm still going back and forth because I'd like to have some Myr Enforcers in there, but right now it's fairly tight.

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Darksteel Citadel

4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
4 Master of Etherium
2 Etched Champion

SB
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Thoughtseize
2 Etched Champion
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tormod's Crypt

Hi guys,
with the arrival of Mirrodin Besieged, here is my take on the build:

3x Ornithopter
4x Memnite
4x Arcbound Worker
4x Arcbound Ravager
3x Frogmite
4x Disciple of the Vault
3x Etched Champion

4x Aether Vial
3x Mox Opal
2x Sprinleaf Drum
4x Thoughtcast
4x Cranial Plating

2x Inkmoth Nexus (looks ok to equip a Plating on this one or sac some Ravager counters)
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Ancient Den (Ethersworn Canonist in SB)
4x Vault of Whispers
4x Tree of Tales (Krosan Grip in SB?)

I don't know if 18 lands is too much, I have yet to check it...

Further diverting the discussion; is it time to reexamine 8-ball (or it's spiritual successor) what with the current mirrodin block? The playable 2cc disruption creatures are closing critical mass with Revoker, and with Opal the deck can easily run no cmc 1 whatsoever for Chalice. Example decklist:

// Lands
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
4 [MR] Ancient Den

// Creatures
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [MR] Ornithopter
4 [ALA] Master of Etherium
4 [M11] Steel Overseer
4 [SOM] Memnite
4 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
4 [MBE] Phyrexian Revoker

// Spells
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void

Sideboard:
4x Engineered Explosives
4x Tormod's Crypt

8 of the best lords in the format, 12 ways to slow down combo on turn 1, Ravager to permanently skewer combat math in your favor and Cranial Plating to boot. Seems strong at a glance. If you're willing to cut Citadel for Vault you could probably work in Tezzeret as well for the hell of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Infinitium

Further diverting the discussion; is it time to reexamine 8-ball (or it's spiritual successor) what with the current mirrodin block? The playable 2cc disruption creatures are closing critical mass with Revoker, and with Opal the deck can easily run no cmc 1 whatsoever for Chalice. Example decklist:

// Lands
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
4 [MR] Ancient Den

// Creatures
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [MR] Ornithopter
4 [ALA] Master of Etherium
4 [M11] Steel Overseer
4 [SOM] Memnite
4 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
4 [MBE] Phyrexian Revoker

// Spells
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void

Sideboard:
4x Engineered Explosives
4x Tormod's Crypt

8 of the best lords in the format, 12 ways to slow down combo on turn 1, Ravager to permanently skewer combat math in your favor and Cranial Plating to boot. Seems strong at a glance. If you're willing to cut Citadel for Vault you could probably work in Tezzeret as well for the hell of it.

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Oh there's a thread for that:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ht=#post493776
I've been posting on it once a year... :laugh:
Maybe I'll start a new ritual... like that Edgar Allan Poe Toaster.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Infinitium

Further diverting the discussion; is it time to reexamine 8-ball (or it's spiritual successor) what with the current mirrodin block? The playable 2cc disruption creatures are closing critical mass with Revoker, and with Opal the deck can easily run no cmc 1 whatsoever for Chalice. Example decklist:

// Lands
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
4 [MR] Ancient Den

// Creatures
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [MR] Ornithopter
4 [ALA] Master of Etherium
4 [M11] Steel Overseer
4 [SOM] Memnite
4 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
4 [MBE] Phyrexian Revoker

// Spells
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void

Sideboard:
4x Engineered Explosives
4x Tormod's Crypt

8 of the best lords in the format, 12 ways to slow down combo on turn 1, Ravager to permanently skewer combat math in your favor and Cranial Plating to boot. Seems strong at a glance. If you're willing to cut Citadel for Vault you could probably work in Tezzeret as well for the hell of it.

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I really like your list. You shut down a Lackey, Aether Vial, Spell pierce, Dark ritual, Thoughtseize/Duress, StP and all other nasty cmc 1 stuff. Imagine the look on your opponents face if you go turn 1 Chalice @ 1, turn 2 Canonist or Revoker...
But maybe Canonist is more of a meta choice, if you expect many combo-decks. You could replace those by Etched Champion.
Only thing it needs is some mana fixing, since you can't run Springleaf drum and you are running Darksteel Citadel. Replace those by Glimmervoid?

Speaking of Glimmervoid, can someone enlighten me why people run City of Brass over Glimmervoid? Seems like it would never be destroyed in affinity by having no other artifacts in play, if so you're losing anyway. Too bad I can't run my Mishra's Workshops though...

Disciple and Springleaf Drum just win games. I'd rather just side those out for Chalice and other combo hate when I need it rather than run hate MD.

http://www.channelfireball.com/wp-co...an-Revoker.jpg

It is lovely.

I am pleased with this card just from the looks of it, but I haven't tested it yet. I'd prefer it was 1 for 1/1, but 2 for 2/1 is still fine. I generally don't find disruptive cards to be main-deckable, but this one might be an exception. It is acceptably costed (colorless matters), it has legs (which is extremely important to an aggro-deck), and it answers many bombs.

The trade-off between land cards and non-land cards with mana-abilities (which this card does answer!) is worth-while, in my view.

It won't make the deck viable again, but it might improve it.



peace,
4eak

I would have to politely disagree. If I were to maindeck Phyrexian Revoker, I would much rather maindeck Pithing Needle instead.

The reason being that needle is not a creature. Sure that can be seen as a con, but I consider it a pro because Legacy is choke full of anti-creature hate. The only format I am aware of that doesn't pack MD creature hate on a regular basis is vintage. Now in that case, I would throw in a revoker. Because it does the same thing as needle and puts down a clock, and vintage is creature light (tho it seems to be getting more creature oriented decks getting more and more popular).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kkoie

I would have to politely disagree. If I were to maindeck Phyrexian Revoker, I would much rather maindeck Pithing Needle instead.

The reason being that needle is not a creature. Sure that can be seen as a con, but I consider it a pro because Legacy is choke full of anti-creature hate. The only format I am aware of that doesn't pack MD creature hate on a regular basis is vintage. Now in that case, I would throw in a revoker. Because it does the same thing as needle and puts down a clock, and vintage is creature light (tho it seems to be getting more creature oriented decks getting more and more popular).

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Ehh?? It dies to creature removal? So?
You are playing an aggro deck full of creatures, Ravager, MoE etc, which all die to removal. Should we skip those also?
I really don't understand why its so hard to grasp that this card is a great addition. It offers control AND aggro in one card. People that say this card is mediocre must get their head examined. If this eats a StP, at least my MoE is safe! It carries plating and if you are playing Steel Overseer this is an extra target for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 4eak

http://www.channelfireball.com/wp-co...an-Revoker.jpg

It is lovely.

I am pleased with this card just from the looks of it, but I haven't tested it yet. I'd prefer it was 1 for 1/1, but 2 for 2/1 is still fine. I generally don't find disruptive cards to be main-deckable, but this one might be an exception. It is acceptably costed (colorless matters), it has legs (which is extremely important to an aggro-deck), and it answers many bombs.

The trade-off between land cards and non-land cards with mana-abilities (which this card does answer!) is worth-while, in my view.

It won't make the deck viable again, but it might improve it.



peace,
4eak

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Hey, 4eak.
Well, i would like to hear your thoughts about these changes to affinity, if i were to use Revoker, in what slot would it be best to put him?
i mean, i've been having good results in local torneys (i can at least get top8s in 30-40ppl torneys) with the fast version of affinity, if i slow the deck down with maindecked Chalice, revoker, etc... will it improve my records? won't i get Rolfstomped by other agro decks or combos?

What about the new tezz?
i've been testing him in MWS and i found it pretty cool to win by turn 3, but i don't know if he mess up the consistency of the deck (i've been running with 17 lands on my test build) =p

should we return to the old Vial version of Affinity since we are slowering it down?
also, I don't really like Glimpse, but do you think it is viable in the current meta?

BTW, it would be very nice if you could update your Primer... i mean, its veryy well-written, and gives a lot of depth about affinity, but i think its a little outdated... maybe we could use some new info.

PS: Im sorry for my poor english, it is not my Native language.

Instead of debating between Pithing Needle and revoker, I'm just going to run a set of both. That way I can tell my opponent, "Screw you! You won't be activating any abilities all game."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justin

Instead of debating between Pithing Needle and revoker, I'm just going to run a set of both. That way I can tell my opponent, "Screw you! You won't be activating any abilities all game."

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you can run the both with a playset of Vedalken Certarch

Vedalken Certarch is it better than Phyrexian Revoker ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Infinitium

Further diverting the discussion; is it time to reexamine 8-ball (or it's spiritual successor) what with the current mirrodin block? The playable 2cc disruption creatures are closing critical mass with Revoker, and with Opal the deck can easily run no cmc 1 whatsoever for Chalice. Example decklist:

// Lands
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
4 [MR] Ancient Den

// Creatures
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [MR] Ornithopter
4 [ALA] Master of Etherium
4 [M11] Steel Overseer
4 [SOM] Memnite
4 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
4 [MBE] Phyrexian Revoker

// Spells
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void

Sideboard:
4x Engineered Explosives
4x Tormod's Crypt

8 of the best lords in the format, 12 ways to slow down combo on turn 1, Ravager to permanently skewer combat math in your favor and Cranial Plating to boot. Seems strong at a glance. If you're willing to cut Citadel for Vault you could probably work in Tezzeret as well for the hell of it.

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I like the Chalice idea. Not convinced by the Canonist (meta choice, I guess) but I like CotV.

Don't you think that without Disciple, Ravager is definitely working too much against the rest of the deck ?
I've given up on the dirty pair 3-4 months ago (opting for Certarch instead ; CotV could be better, though) and never looked back.
Whatever some say, they are definitely replaceable : what you lose in power by dropping them is actually not much when you account for the Plating+Metalcraft+consistency improvement.
Ravager is already not as good as it used to be when you could stack combat damage.

Even about punch, green can offer as good : Tarmogoyf is easily as good as Ravager, once you take the risk-side into account, and you can also play some Carapace Forger on top if you want. Red is another option with Galvanic and Shrapnel blasts.
Both these options disrupt the rest of the deck much less than Ravager.


Last, though I like the CotV, I think your list is too controllish, which means it's slow to kill, leaving too much time for the opponent to recover.
I'd reconsider the Canonist (give up white for something with more punch) and Overseer to try to speed up the kill.

I'm interested to see how well Tezzy tests out. 4 is definitely a bit expensive, but I think he'll do well. I don't think decks should redesign themselves to become dependent on the card, however. 1 - 2 seems like a suitable number to run.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kanti

What the hell is wrong with you people. You are derailing Affinity so much. Confidant>Thoughtcast? What the hell? And Memnite over Worker? You really wouldn't want to pay 1 mana for modular? I've tested Memnite and it sucks. And taking out Vial? Why even play Affinity if it isn't to beat CB-Top?

That new lord looks awesome. Makes our CB-Top match-up even better as he gives a clock. He should replace the 4 Workers.

Here's to hoping that Beseiged has more to offer.

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Memnite >>> Worker

That one extra mana makes a big difference in a deck as fast as this. Arcbound Worker hasn't been very useful in this deck for a long time now.

Vial is pretty outdated for Affinity at this point. The benefits it gives you over control decks should be irrelevant, as control decks generally don't pose too much of a problem.

This is a list i have been trying out now.

It got rid of most colored spells, since I got tired of having the wrong colors. I replaced them with cards that make the deck more versatile.

//Utility
4 Cranial Plating
4 Pithing Needle
3 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Opal

//Dudes
4 Memnite
4 Frogmite
3 Myr Enforcer
3 Master of Etherium
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Steel Overseer
4 Ornithopter
3 Etched Champion

//Lands
4 Glimmervoid
4 Great Furnace
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod

The explosives are great removal, and they can be played for zero if you need to have an explosive start. That makes them quiet versatile. Pithing needle main seems a bit much, but i like it a lot. The provide answers to many troubles.

The main idea is to take away the colored troubles the deck occasionaly has. The problem is, it will run out of steam quicker than traditional affinity does. Perhaps cutting some cards for Sensei's divining top make's sense. It gives a lot of card advantage, but stays colorless.

Please share opinions about this list.

Why are you using glimmervoid if you only have 2 spells that utilize colors; 3 cards that absolutely require them. I'd cut great furnace for darksteel citadel, which if you're running no red sources, should be doing anyways. Also, if you're running steel overseer, this card greatly benefits from turn 1 casts. Consider running more acceleration like ancient tomb in addition to springleaf drum.

I think the decklist you've posted is a great premise for more of a swarm style build. If you're concerned about running out of steam, a pair of new tezzes may a good finisher. Also, look into the new signal pest coming out.

New Tezz belongs in a different thread. With the way Ravager Affinity is now, you can't simply just add this guy. You would probably have to update AfFOWnity or create a U/B Affinity Stax deck. Dragon Fairy Stompy, lol? He just feels like a midrange type of card. When even MOE is so close to getting the boot because of his mana cost, this guy shouldn't even be mentioned.

Revoker is amazing. I'm thinking he replaces Canonist in some sideboards, but that's not tested yet. He sort of opens up another world for affinity since we now have 2 hatebears we could play on turn 1. Either way, he definitely can address the issues that this deck has against certain decks.

The primer should be updated when someone manages to do well with a build that is generally accepted. For instance, Glimpse of Nature, Memnite and Etched Champion are officially legitimate cards to run, so they should me mentioned in the primer. It would be a lot of work for 4eak if he had to keep mentioning every "good idea" that pops up in this thread. Tournament standings should back up the viability of certain cards. We all know certain cards are really good, but they have to prove themselves.

How can anyone say that Tezzeret 2.0 doesn't belong in this thread? 90% of the people who run this deck are going to want to get their hands on him. Unless something has gone horribly wrong, he either wins you the game on the turn you cast him or the next. Yes, he's expensive, but that's overcompensated by just how incredibly good he is. From what I saw in the thread about him, most people seem to think 3 - 4 of him belong in every deck, but I remain steadfast that 1 - 2 is the correct number to play. You'd never want to see him clogging up your hand.

However, I will agree that this thread does need to be rebooted, as it's changed so much as of recent. Seeing as how the affinity mechanic is no longer center stage, I propose a new name for the archetype:

'Agents of Steel'

I think it's the perfect name for the deck.

I would like to remind you all about the existence of a diversified Ux Metalcraft Aggro-control thread, which I created a while back (late December 2010, see page 24 of this thread for details):

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Karhumies

I have created an Affinity-like aggro-control deck for the early 2011 Legacy meta, and would like to receive help from seasoned Affinity players to develop it further. For the lack of a better name, I call it UWx Metalcraft aggro-control.

...
// Main deck (60)
...
4 Ancient Tomb
...
4 Chalice of the Void @ 1

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The initial :w: splash for MD Ethersworn Canonist and Stoneforge Mystic has been scrapped and replaced with MD Tezzeret 2.0 and Phyrexian Revoker.

That deck has a very different game plan compared to more traditional Affinity builds, which IMO makes it appropriate to discuss about it in a different thread and leave this thread for the more "balls to the walls" artifact creature strategies (which really should adopt the use of Signal Pest, IMO).

Brief list of some different varieties of "affinity-type" Legacy decks, which are at least borderline popular/playable even nowadays:

Common nominating cards:
4x Cranial Plating
4x Master of Etherium (given that the deck includes :u:)
12+ Artifact mana sources (combination of artifact lands with Paradise Mantle/Springleaf Drum/Mox Opal/other cards)
(3-4x Thoughtcast)


1) :r:-splash Red Affinity
Basically: Any Affinity build which splashes :r: for burn-type effects (typically has been UBr)
Signature cards: Atog, Fling, Shrapnel Blast, previously Fatal Frenzy, nowadays Galvanic Blast
Birth / initial rise in popularity: 2004 (1.5 renamed into Legacy, format ban list separated from Vintage, Mirrodin block presently in Standard)
Early signs of decline: Shards of Alara (Ethersworn Canonist and popularity of ANT and other combo decks makes :w: the 3rd/4th color of Affinity, dropping :r: from most lists)
Possible re-rise to surface #1: Scars of Mirrodin (Galvanic Blast), although this has not contributed as much for the game plan as the players had initially hoped

2) :g:-splash Berserk Affinity -> also modern-day versions of "budget green affinity"
Signature cards: Berserk, later Tarmogoyf, later budget replacement Carapace Forger
Birth / initial rise in popularity #1: 2004 (1.5 renamed into Legacy, format ban list separated from Vintage, Mirrodin block presently in Standard)
Decrease in popularity: when people realized that Berserk Stompy does practically the same thing, but faster
rise in popularity #2: Future Sight (Tarmogoyf)
rise in popularity #3: Carapace Forger as a budget creature to supplement Affinity-type aggro game plan ("budget zoo")

3) "Traditional"/"Modern"/"Typical" Vial Affinity (typically Uxy, with a possible z)
Signature cards: 4x Frogmite, 3-4x Myr Enforcer, 3-4x AEther Vial (Vial & the deck were a meta choice at the time)
Birth / initial rise in popularity: Shards of Alara (Master of Etherium), popularity of Counterbalance decks at the time
Early signs of decline: Conflux (Path to Exile), M10 (combat rules change: no damage on the stack), emerging popularity of ANT and other kinds of combo-based decks (fought with Chalice of the Void @ 0 and Ethersworn Canonist, but this was a losing battle)
Possible re-rise to surface #1: banning of Mystical Tutor, deck did not become successful (Survival did)
Possible re-rise to surface #2: Scars of Mirrodin (MD Mox Opal, MD Memnite, MD/SB Etched Champion), deck became moderately successful but is looking for additional gas (Signal Pest?) or another direction to branch off into (one of the listed-below affinity-type of decks?)
Possible re-rise to surface #3: Mirrodin Besieged (MD Signal Pest, MD/SB Phyrexian Revoker)

4) Affinity Stompy (one former build known as 8-ball Affinity)
Signature cards: Ancient Tomb, Wasteland, (Trinisphere), previously: 4x Sphere of Resistance + 4x Thorn of Amethyst, could nowadays include Magus of the Moon & Lodestone Golem?
Birth / initial rise in popularity: Lorwyn (Thorn of Amethyst)

5) :0: Mono-brown Affinity
Signature cards: 4x Steel Overseer, 4x Arcbound Worker, Grim Monolith
Birth / initial rise in popularity: M11 (Steel Overseer), unbanning of Grim Monolith; the deck has not caught on

6) :g::u: Glimpse-Erayo Affinity
Signature cards: 4x Glimpse of Nature, 4x Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
Birth / initial rise in popularity: Scars of Mirrodin (Memnite)

7) Affinity Stax
Signature cards: Vedalken Certarch, Tangle Wire, Wasteland
Birth / initial rise in popularity: work in progress since Scars of Mrrodin (Vedalken Certarch); arguably earlier (unsuccessful) deck building attempts have also been made; no complete deck list which would have fared well in tournaments so far

8) :u:x Metalcraft Aggro-control
Signature cards: 4x Ancient Tomb, 4x Chalice of the Void, complete lack of cc=1 cards in MD
Birth / initial rise in popularity: banning of Survival of the Fittest, meta choice because so many decks are very reliant on their cc=1 and cc=2 cards
Arguably this deck has been developed multiple times in the history of Legacy, whenever Chalice @ 1 has been a good meta choice for the then-present Affinity build.

9) Tezzeret Affinity (UB, with possible x)
Signature cards: Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, 4x Arcbound Ravager + 4x Disciple of the Void (although the latter is debated atm)
Birth / initial rise in popularity: Mirrodin Besieged (Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas)

this is my take on brown affinity

4 signal pest
4 steel overseer
4 metalworker
4 wurmcoil engine
4 etched champion
4 phyrexian revoker
4 steel hellkite

4 crenial plating
4 mox opal
4 grim monolith
4 voltaic key

4 city of traitors
4 ancient tomb
4 contested warzone
4 darksteel citadel

Sorry, but at that point the list doesn't belong in affinity anymore. There isn't a single affinity card in it.

It should be at a MUD thread.


Nonetheless, i think it is a tight list. Tested a lot with it? How do you like contested war zone?

i only just proxy'ed it up and tested it for a day or two so basicly no testing
i cant really decide on the contested warzone over port or maybe an arena
as to the affinity part, in general affinity cards are going out of the deck becourse more surpirior cards appear just like vial is gone as of this moment the only good affinity card is thoughtcast and maybe frogmite. so i figured this was the thread where the playstyle of the deck belonged "drop a handfull of artifacts turn 1 or 2, attack, grap a coke"

Hello,

I wanted to post the list that I've been playing around with for the last few days. Most of it has been endless goldfishing, but I was also able to play few games against pretty competitive builds of 5c Zoo, RGB Goblins and UW Tempo.

4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Darkslick Shore

4 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Thoughtcast

4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Steel Overseer
4 Master of Etherium

The deck has performed really well and I won most of the real games. While goldfishing, it feels very powerful, and more importantly, consistent. The deck can easily just swarm the opponent, win with Cranial Plating that equips any of the 8 'evasion guys' (Ornithopter/Signal Pest), win out of nowhere with Ravager + Disciple, or just wait for the ultimate Tezz experience.

Enjoy and try the list. Comment and critique are welcome as always!

EDIT: More comments on the specific card choices can be found in the Tezzeret Affinity thread http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...Affinity/page2, #26.

@kortero
i like the list but have you tried pithing needle? in a 15 land mana base with a 4cc planeswalker wasteland can really ruin your day

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lusian

@kortero
i like the list but have you tried pithing needle? in a 15 land mana base with a 4cc planeswalker wasteland can really ruin your day

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The good thing is that the list doesn't really rely on Tezzeret, and I actually won easily for example one game against UW Tempo where the opponent started with turn 1 Wasteland and turn 2 Wasteland. :)

The decks curve is really low apart from 3 Tezzerets and 4 Master of Etheriums, and the deck still has 22 mana sources of which 15 are lands. And I can't point strong enough the importance of Ancient Tombs, at least in my goldfishing and limited playtesting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kortero

Hello,

I wanted to post the list that I've been playing around with for the last few days. Most of it has been endless goldfishing, but I was also able to play few games against pretty competitive builds of 5c Zoo, RGB Goblins and UW Tempo.

4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Darkslick Shore

4 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Thoughtcast

4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Steel Overseer
4 Master of Etherium

The deck has performed really well and I won most of the real games. While goldfishing, it feels very powerful, and more importantly, consistent. The deck can easily just swarm the opponent, win with Cranial Plating that equips any of the 8 'evasion guys' (Ornithopter/Signal Pest), win out of nowhere with Ravager + Disciple, or just wait for the ultimate Tezz experience.

Enjoy and try the list. Comment and critique are welcome as always!

EDIT: More comments on the specific card choices can be found in the Tezzeret Affinity thread http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...Affinity/page2, #26.

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No frogmites? I'd advice you to take out the Darkslick Shores. You're better off with Glimmervoid (I run 2).

What does a 2/2 vanilla creature really do for the deck? I just can't see how it would improve the deck in any way, and as the list is already really tight, I can't think of anything to cut for Frogmites even if I wanted them in.

I'm also interested what would be the benefits of Glimmervoid over Darkslick Shore in a U/B build like mine? At least Darkslick Shore stays in play after Deed destroys every artifact one controls. It might be different if I wanted to splash a third color for sideboard purposes, but couple of Glimmervoids are not enough to make a third color viable and as I want to play Ancient Tombs, I'm better off with two colors. I could of course play Underground Seas, but as Darkslick Shore comes into play untapped 99,8% of the time, I decided not give Merfolk the option to Islandwalk us to death and stick with the Shores.

In Kortero's build, Darksteel Citadel is better than Glimmervoid, perhaps better than Darkslick shores since you're turn 1 land is immune to wasteland, sinkhole, armageddon, vindicate, and deed. I run a similiar build, but with a few Confidants and the fourth Steel Overseer (wihout Disciple/Ravager- its not my style).

Darksteel Citadel might be a consideration, but I just don't like being colorscrewed. 8 artifact lands also feel enough since I don't play any Frogmites or Myr Enforcers. Even with the Shores in the deck I find myself sometimes needing blue or black mana which just isn't available.

Dual lands are needed even more post board since I'm thinking of packing colored spells (Thoughseizes, Engineered Plagues or even Spell Pierces) in the sideboard, but I don't really have any concrete sideplans for the deck yet.

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Originally Posted by kortero

Darksteel Citadel might be a consideration, but I just don't like being colorscrewed. 8 artifact lands also feel enough since I don't play any Frogmites or Myr Enforcers. Even with the Shores in the deck I find myself sometimes needing blue or black mana which just isn't available.

Dual lands are needed even more post board since I'm thinking of packing colored spells (Thoughseizes, Engineered Plagues or even Spell Pierces) in the sideboard, but I don't really have any concrete sideplans for the deck yet.

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I'm running 3x Chalice and Phyrexian Revoker in the board so I can drop the Signal Pests for it. Springleafs usually get dropped on turn 1 anyway, so Chalice has little effect. Chalice @1 + Revoker on LED = win vs. combo. Vs. control, I'd side in the same things (shut down brainstorms and 1cc removal) with Revoker on Sensei's Top.

Yeah, I'm not going to put Chalice on my sideboard since I run more 1cc spells than you do (Disciples), but Revoker is going to find it's way to the sideboard for sure. I was thinking of complementing Revokers with Thoughtseizes and maybe even some Spell Pierces in the combo matchup, and all the three cards are useful also against problematic cards such as Pernicious Deed. Thoughtseizes and Pierces hit also Null Rod, Hurkyl's Recall or other spell that might cause problems for us.

A really quick draft out of my head would be:

4 Engineered Plague (Goblins, Merfolk, Elves)
2 Umezawa's Jitte (Aggressive decks, Burn)
3 Phyrexian Revoker (Combo, Deed, maybe Vial/Top)
3 Thoughtseize (Combo, Control)
3 Spell Pierce (Combo, Control)

I don't really know if we need to pack some graveyard removal on the SB. Someone with a better knowledge of Affinitys bad matchups could enlighten me if I need to fit 2-3 Relic of Progenituses to the side board. :)

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Originally Posted by kortero

What does a 2/2 vanilla creature really do for the deck? I just can't see how it would improve the deck in any way, and as the list is already really tight, I can't think of anything to cut for Frogmites even if I wanted them in.

I'm also interested what would be the benefits of Glimmervoid over Darkslick Shore in a U/B build like mine? At least Darkslick Shore stays in play after Deed destroys every artifact one controls. It might be different if I wanted to splash a third color for sideboard purposes, but couple of Glimmervoids are not enough to make a third color viable and as I want to play Ancient Tombs, I'm better off with two colors. I could of course play Underground Seas, but as Darkslick Shore comes into play untapped 99,8% of the time, I decided not give Merfolk the option to Islandwalk us to death and stick with the Shores.

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I'm going to quote Izor from this very same thread: "There is absolutely no way an Affinity build can run less than 4 Frogmites. Frogmites are the main accelerators of the deck, and they have been since Mirrodin came out."

They're an essential coponent in the deck. Paying either 1 or 0 mana for a 2/2 artifact creature is irreplaceable.

If you're running a u/b build, then Glimmervoid would be pointless, but I don't understand why you wouldn't want to run a 3 color deck in the first place. You're already exclusively running non basic lands, and you have plenty of manna fixers available to you.

Also, Tormod's Crypt is slightly better than Relic in this deck.

Signal pest is the bomb in this deck.

Myr Enforce > deed.

that is all.

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Originally Posted by kortero

I don't really know if we need to pack some graveyard removal on the SB. Someone with a better knowledge of Affinitys bad matchups could enlighten me if I need to fit 2-3 Relic of Progenituses to the side board. :)

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If anyone is running Dredge or Welder-animator in your meta, you will need 3-4x Tormod's Crypt in the SB. Dredge is the only aggro-combo deck which is actually faster in combat than Affinity, and a turn 2 Blazing Archon via Entomb->Exhume is a serious problem. The secondary choice for grave hate in sb is Leyline of the Void, NOT Relic of Progenitus. Relic is only used in decks which are scared of opposing Tarmogoyf/Knight of the Reliquary/Terravore. Affinity-type decks traditionally laugh at them, because we have much bigger lords and Plating.

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Originally Posted by Hencules

Sorry, but at that point the list doesn't belong in affinity anymore. There isn't a single affinity card in it.

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...which is exactly why I generated the list of 9 current Affinity-type decks. Only 1-2 of them run Frogmite and/or Enforcer anymore, and even Thoughtcast is being dropped from many other builds.

A 2/2 vanilla and 4/4 vanilla just are not worth spending the MD slots for anymore. Not even if they are under-costed for their power/toughness ratio (which they are not so much anymore). In practise, we need more relevant board state effects, which is why IMO Signal Pest/Steel Overseer/Phyrexian Revoker > Frogmite and Etched Champion/Esperzoa > Myr Enforcer.

Signal Pest is a more relevant creature than Frogmite, because it comes active just as quickly, has evasion, gives potentially more than "just +2 power = damage" to a full-scale attack, and can chump block pretty much as effectively in today's metagame (non-flying toughness 2 or less creatures which are meant for attacking the opponent are getting extinct as we speak).

While Phyrexian Revoker and Steel Overseer cost (in practise) more than Frogmite, they have the same power but a much, much more relevant effect.

...furthermore, the "Lord effects" of Master of Etherium + Steel Overseer + Signal Pest DO stack up, and should not be negated.


Etched Champion is more relevant than Myr Enforcer, because they tend to cost roughly the same amount of mana, but E.Champion has (usually) evasion and makes for a much better blocker. On offense without Plating, Enforcer is slightly better, though.

Esperzoa is more relevant than Myr Enforcer, because they tend to cost roughly the same amount of mana, but flying makes a big difference. Sure, 'zoa dies to Lightning Bolt, but that's far from the most common creature removal used nowadays.


...and as an added bonus, having less Affinity mechanic = need for less artifact lands = Pernicious Deed and Engineered Explosives @ 0 and other similar cards do not outright kill your lands as often. Although, I can see the flip side of the coin of having cmc=7 Enforcer getting past Counterbalance and surviving Pernicious Deed/Engineered Explosives.

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Originally Posted by kortero

4 Engineered Plague (Goblins, Merfolk, Elves)

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Etched Champion > Engineered Plague vs Merfolk and Goblins.