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Oddly enough, where the hell did you get that epic avatar? ^_^ It's been bugging me... :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by mujadaddy
Planeswalkers die to some basic Pox weapons as is. Pithing Needle from SB, Cursed Scroll, The Rack (you did include Oppression, Necrogen Mists, Liliana right?) and Ratchet Bomb. Yes that's right, in top deck mode, excluding some minor card goofiness, of which needs to be top decked anyway, you CAN BOMB THE JACE! ^_^
Yeah, I dig that avatar too.Quote:
Originally Posted by mujadaddy
I think the benefits of having 4 Urborg Tombs in the deck outweigh its negatives. I hate not having 2 Black to cast a Hymn or Sinkhole, which happens on uncommon occasion with 8 colorless mana in the deck. Also, remember that with the new Legend rules, Urborg falls under what shall be henceforth known as the Cradle Clause: Tap Legendary land for mana. Float it. Play new Legendary Land, sac the already tapped one, as is your choice. Tap it for another mana.
I ticked one up to 10 once (you know how grindy Pox can be) waiting in order to Bomb an Omnicience, but he Cunning Wished for a Trickbind. Oh well.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
Sadly, when the deeds were printed, there was no planeswalker yet, and hence the wordings on the card didn't hit any planeswalker and hence your lili is safe :D but so does opponent's jace =(Quote:
Originally Posted by mujadaddy
Oh, that's right, my bad. Scroll, Rack, Needle, yeah. I like being prepared.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonthan
Good point on the New (Old) Legend rule for Urborg, too, Beez; they keep going back & forth on that!
And I made the avatar back 6 years ago myself, G.O.B. from Arrested Development; "Illusions, Michael..."
I am thinking maybe i should remove the negators and add a fourth Tombstalker. That way I drop to 60 cards.
4 Tombstalker
4 Nihilith
4 Bloodghast
4 The Rack
4 Smallpox
4 Pox
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Darkblast
4 Shadow of Doubt
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
20 Swamp
3 Dakmor Salvage
That would make the most of the cantrip effect of the Shadow of Doubt.
I run the AD because is versatile. For JSM i have to deal with him post-SB.Quote:
Originally Posted by mujadaddy
I use Deeds as the sweeper usually. I was thinking of putting 1 Damnation in the side though. the extra 1cc is worth it.
4 Urborgs I believe is a must, for the reasons Beez mentioned.
I disagree about the LD path. I'd like to go as far too add the 4th Sinkhole along with a Nether Void. I'm not too sure what too cut to make the space.
@Hardcore Have you thought about running a few fetchlands for the shuffle effect to clear out deaddraws that might be floating top deck with the top
@Dwell
Should I choose to run more tops that would be something to consider. However that would be to commit myself financially in a way I can't afford right now.
This is because should I run fetch lands then I would be on the path to build pox with devastating dreams.
So that would mean buying at least four fetch and four Badlands just because I want to shuffle my deck:laugh:
Pretty sexy list man. IF ONLY the card said "or sideboards" it would be really powerful :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
@Dwell, "I disagree about the LD path."
Yeah, it's really a philosophical difference. I reason that mana curves are ridiculously low, and I find Black's version of Control is too passive for my preferred play style. But success is success, so keep grinding 'em out!
Replace Nihilith with Nyxahthid. 1 more cmc for almost double the damage. Seeing as you're running the Rack, you get to increase the synergy using Nyx. What's more, when you topdeck Nihilith, you feel kind of sad inside. When you top deck Nyx, you smirk and be glad that he eats any Tarmogoyf like a sandwich! :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Trust me, evasion isn't worth it's ineffectiveness when both players are in topdeck mode, I tested Nihilith a while ago and unless you're gonna hardcast him [yow], then I find it too awkward.
@OmniStrata
Although I agree about the evasion being only a bonus, Hardcore's list doesn't seem like it runs quite enough discard to take full advantage of Nyxathid. In his list, The Rack seems like something that the opponent slow-plays to avoid, which of course is great tempo for Pox. Just an observation that Hardcore's list goes for critters as opposed to LD or HD. You're right about topdecking, though. I'd test a 2/2 split were I him, actually.
It is true I haven't tested Nyxathid but Nihilith simply has better abilities.
It has fear. This mean only black and artifact creatures can block him, and they are all smaller (except for batterskull).
Blockers like Lingering souls just linger helplessly. Fear win me games.
Casting cost of six make him safe from abrupt decay.
He has haste when he enters play from exile zone. This in part compensate for not having the same P/T as Nyxathid.
Also I can only remember one occasion when he was countered when coming into play from suspend. He has been stifled once or twice.
He hides from pox effects, and, because of the wording about suspend on his card, I have control of when he enters play.
And lastly,; people usually have never seen nihilith before and are unfamiliar with his abilities.
It isn't critical, but it is good. You can replace them with Cabal Pit and be fine, the deck just lacks a good way to neuter the board and Tabernacle is the best one. It is also interesting to note how Dredge is a joke matchup with Tabernacle. Extract Ichorid and you win...Quote:
Originally Posted by lithiux
PunishingPox BR
Hello everyone. ( Sry I know my english sux and I'm typing on my iPad :(. )
I needed a New cheap deck. I looked threw my binder and found a lot of the Pox stuff that I played a few years ago. I Ordered a few cards, sleeved up the deck and played just for fun, but to be honest, the Fun aspect on my side wasn't that big. I realized fast why I quited to Play this deck a Long Time ago.
- The deck has Big problems against swarm decks.
- Pox does not Play enough removal against decks like Deathblade, Shardl.BUG and so on.
- Jace the Mindsculptor is very Hard to handle.
- Land destruction plan is Not Good enough, if you can't handle your opponents creatures.
So how to solve the Problems? I found a few lists that splashed Green for Decay and Loam. Problem is, Decay does Not handle Jace, and Loam/Wasteland is just not good/fast enough in every matchup every Game.
So First I looked at the normal Pox lists and tried to Figure out wich cards are strong enough.
First the discard package. A deck without Blue needs discard ;). So 4x Inquisition / Hymn is a nice split.
Scondly Smallpox is an incredibly strong effect if you play without creatures. So 4x.
Then obviously Liliana of the Veil. Removal, discard, all in one. I would Play more than 4 if I could.
So here is the List that I'm brewing the Last weeks:
PunishingPox BR
Main:
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Innocent Blood
2x Dreadbore
3x Sinkhole
4x Smallpox
3x Punishing Fire
2x Chandra Pyromancer
4x Liliana of the Veil
1x Night of Souls Betrayal
1x Nether Spirit
1x Cursed Scroll
3x Sensei's Divining Top
3x Wasteland
3x Groove of the Burnwillow
1x Urborg tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Lawaclaw Reaches
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Marsh Flats
3x Badland
5x Swamp
Side:
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Pyroblast
2x Slaughter Games
3x Thoughtseize
2x Disfigure
1x Dreadbore
2x Engeneered Plague
3x Nihil Spellbomb
So the Problem with swarming decks is now solved with Pun.Fire and the additional removal.
Chandra is nice as an additional thread, Decay proof, Wincondition, removal and Card advantage with the Top. So far very powerfull.
Until now the deck is very funny to Play. My friends are already pissed when I force them to Test against this list. Testing Partners/Decks: RUG, DeathBlade, Shardl.BUG. All at least slightly favored so far.
Would be nice if more People would Test this List to See if it's strong enough, I'm really satisfied so far :)
The List is far from being Perfect so it needs improvement...........
All this hatred toward LD makes me wish Sinkholes should have plummeted to $5.00 in price. Damn... :mad:
Technically speaking, LD and Discard both suffer from the same fundamental flaws. Neither can handle creatures that resolve, neither are strong late game, and neither disruption are considered "worthy" in the face of a game that likes counter spell type cards.
The only advantage I see going hard discard is the sharper edge you have against combo decks. In fact, you can just take the standard 'hybrid' Pox shell and replace all the Sinkhole with Wrench Mind instead. You get STRONG 2 for 1 setups and most artifacts in legacy are fine discards. Wanna chuck your Aether Vial or LED? Be my guest. Fighting Affinity? *doh* AND it matches the CMC curve perfectly and is budget friendly.
LD still does something that pure discard just cannot do. Clog the top deck. When you color screw your foes with Wasteland or Mana-Screw their 3 cmc Knight of the Reliquary, Lingering Souls, Planeswalkers, or Sword of Rape & Pillage, I find LD an absolutely essential facet of Pox that synergizes with the Discard part.
Cursed Scroll with Liliana of the Veil should be plenty of creature kill. Only horde deck I noticed that gave me trouble was Dredge. Goblins get stomped by Engineered Plague along with Elves and decks that try to function off of 2 land CANNOT function in front of wastes and sinkholes. They have low land counts and those are the decks that Pox will devour like a quick snack. Case and point? Threshold.
First of all Discard is much more flexible than LD. Great against combo and basically against every other deck. Not great as a topdeck in the lategame, but still the best if you're not playing blue.
The point about Sinkhole, and don't misunderstand me. I love this card. Just bought a playset a few weeks ago, but please be honest to yourself. How many games have you lost against a creature or planeswalker with a sinkhole in your hand?? I a lot and that frustated me. The argument to colour screw your opponent in a format that is full of DeathriteShamans is not strong enough. A lot of the time I wished the sinkhole was something else, mostly a removal.
About MindWrench. Hmm I don't thinck that this deck needs more discard especially not an additional cc2 spell + the power level of this spell is not strong enough.
I mean there is a reason why Pox is not a viable deck atm. The mono version is such a chaep deck, so even that should be an argument for playing the deck. The problem is that not every card is strong enough if you look at the power level. The cards that are powerfull enough in my opinion are Liliana, Inquisition + Hymn, Smallpox. The rest can be discussed.
I will work on this list the next weeks. Next weekend is a big tournament, maybe I will test it and report my result...................
Yesterday I went 3-1 in the local tourney.
3 Tombstalker
4 Nihilith
4 Bloodghast
4 Order of the ebon hand
4 Smallpox
3 Pox
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Darkblast
4 Shadow of Doubt
4 The Rack
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
19 Swamp
2 Dakmor Salvage
SB:
4 Duress
3 Lightning Greaves
4 Perish
4 Surgical extraction
My first opponent played Counterbalance with RIP and Helm combo as win condition.
It is a slow but potentially lethal deck, and one that I probably never fought before. I am used to Angels as win con, and got a bit shaken here by the novelity and didn't know how to fight it.
Perhaps I was just needing a warm up game.
Anyway I lost 0-2 but felt confident. (Btw, this was also only time during the evening that I cast Shadow of Doubt, but of course my opponent would counter it :P)
An Old Swedish nickname for UW control is "Blue Whore". You know why.
Second game was a Bye. Shit happens.
Next I was paired to fight an elf deck. We both knew what the other played.
He tried to play around my smallpoxes by only playing land on turn one, but got Hymned instead. Since his tactic didn't work, he chose to play an elf turn two. That was when I played my smallpox:laugh:
In the second duel I was lucky and drew land and perish when I needed it. Or rather; I didn't get stuck on two mana.
So, 2-0 here.
Last opponent played UW Stoneblade with that UW WoG that can't be countered and that I can't remember the name of.
I was a bit worried that he played counterspells, but he had cantrips and jace instead. A bit of luck went my way in duel one when I forced him to discard his batterskull. (But then that is what hymn is all about.) Second game he mulliganed and was mana screwed. It might not have been fatal against other decks, but I started to play smallpoxes:cool:
He died to the Rack in both duels...
(well, technically in the second he scooped when I destroyed his lands. But the Rack WAS in play:wink:)
It was nice to get a better result than 2-2, or 0-4, and I look forward to next week when my secret tech have arrived by mail!
Until that time I will work on the sideboard.
I'd have to disagree that discard is great against every other deck. When fighting a deck that barfs it's hand with 1 cmc creatures, I find fast use of Smallpox and Sinkhole more effective at stopping their rush then discarding them. I've never had games with a Sinkhole in my hand while facing down a creature or planeswalker. Sinkhole isn't the kind of card I wait on, it has "cast now!" written all over it. My meta also has more basics in it then most being a more budget friendly meta and even in advanced metas, not everyone is going to show up with no basics in their decks. DRS has the same weakness as fighting an elf deck. It's nothing more than a mana dork (albeit with life gain/loss attached). True, it's a black mana dork that makes it hard to kill at times, but it is Perish feed, and us Black Mages love our anti-creature sideboards now don't we? :tongue: Oddly enough, I have more use for Sinkhole top decked then many other cards. Dying to manlands is a worry for a pox player since they use the same mechanism I use to win [factory] and when Wasteland isn't available, Sinkhole saves me. Control meta hurtsQuote:
Originally Posted by StefN
With Liliana as a card that you say is 'powerful enough', why not run good old Cursed Scroll with her? When mana dorks can't live to see past the summoning sickness point, or die as a top deck, things seem to float easier. High land count allows its activation to be more reasonable and I don't mind using it to feed top decked dark rituals to. They're great for it actually.
Big props to your Shadow of Doubt tech. Reminds me of stifle for a lot of stupid tutors and fetchlands and is like an instant speed Sinkhole in a format full of fetchland. I should put them back in my deck somehow. :cool:
Isn't order of the Ebon Hand kind of inefficient? I like the rest of the list but this win con is odd. Isn't it mana hungry? Why not run Dark rituals and Nantuko Shades? Pro-white is awesome. I'm led to believe you're in a swords and Souls meta. Stromgald Crusader, Knight of Infamy :cool:, and Black Knight feel like better cards for the mana. Looking at your threat heavy list backed by Lighting Greaves in the board, Knight of Infamy would probably love your deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Actually the order was a more efficient threat than phyrexian negator, but still only a stop gap until arrival, today, of...
Gitaxian Probe
The next level of development for my deck:
3 Tombstalker
4 Nihilith
4 Bloodghast
4 The Rack
4 Smallpox
3 Pox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Darkblast
4 Shadow of Doubt
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
19 Swamp
2 Dakmor Salvage
Nice result with your interesting list. Glad the shadow of doubt worked out for you.
I saw some interesting g/b lists on the thread. Please share thoughts on the following list:
4 loam
4 pox
4 small pox
4 Hymn
2 library
4 lilly
1 wurm harvest
1 win con (maybe another walker)
3 mox diamond
4 chalice
4 decay
2 pulse
4 waste
4 bayou
4 factory
6 b fetchs
5 swamps
Posted from cell at work. Sorry for grammar. I basically tweaked a chalice list from
a few pages back.
Is anyone in this thread seriously interested to build a "competetive" Pox list, or are only kitchentable players left here?? (Don't take it personal please).
Nice results??? He said that in the last 3 tournaments he played 2-2, 0-4 and 3-1 (basically a 2-1 with the buy) so overall 4-7. This is a nice result?Quote:
Originally Posted by beez
And you're glad that the Shadow of Doubt worked out for him?? He wrote that he played it once the whole tournament and then it got countered, for me it's more like the playset did nothing.
I would love to build on a Pox list that is playable on bigger tournaments, thought that people are still around here that had the same motivation. I don't thinck that the mono coloured versions are strong enough at the moment, and all the tournament results this last year proofs that.
@lambert101: I thinck chalice is extremely strong atm, the problem is that you need one of your 3 mox diamonds to be able to cast something first turn wich is an absolute drawback in a fast meta. Maybe play cards like Dismember to maximize your first turn drops.
StefN, you seem to be new to the thread; Counting tournament results only you missed that my deck is constantly evolving.
I have tried to build a pox deck that is not a copy of Sam Black's(?) deck since 2011. It went through discard and later zombie builds. There were many dead ends and I have a folder with cool black cards that simply were not good enough.
So, yeah, we try to build competitive decks he.
I guess I'm absolutely wrong in this thread. You are all so convinced about your mono lists, that you ignore, that MonoPox is not able to win big tournaments atm. That's a sad fact, and a reason why we should try to refine Pox.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
And please guys don't be mad on me :smile:. I really love Pox. The flavor and style of the deck is awesome, but it's just not competetive atm.
Correction: it was Reid Duke, not Sam Black.
Hello guys !
Wanted to try this list :
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Bojuka Bog
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Dakmor Salvage
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
7 Swamp
2 Nether Spirit
2 Nihilith
3 Bloodghast
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Shrieking Affliction
4 Dark Ritual
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Innocent Blood
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Smallpox
I know MonoB seems to struggle, but I find the B/G one even worse since there is so much DRS in the meta. B/w doesn't seem to offer that much.
I focused heavily on discard to kill with Shrieking Affliction. Shrieking over The Rack because it deals more at one card in hand.
Any advice for the main ? Don't know yet about the board, I want to try a good main first.
I've been thinking seriously about the BG version, although Punishing Pox is an interesting twist. The manabase looks so inconsistent though with only 1 Urborg. I don't know how you consistently cast BB spells while not sacrificing Groves?Quote:
Originally Posted by StefN
//29 Mana Sources:
3 Mox Diamond
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Bayou
2 Barren Moor
4 Swamp
//Pox Spells: 26
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Innocent Blood
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Extirpate
1 Darkblast
//Win Conditions: 6
1 Nether Spirit
1 Haunted Platemail
2 Life from the Loam
2 Cursed Scroll
//Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Engineered Plague
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Duress
2 Pithing Needle
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Krosan Grip
Card choices:
A lot of these are pretty standard for BG. I feel Mox Diamond, Loam and lack of big Pox means you should have plenty of mana so mana-hungry cards like Cursed Scroll and Platemail seem viable. I originally had 3 Sinkhole MD but, finding Sinkhole increasingly weak, replaced them for Darkblast and Extirpate for added utility. The Dredging of Darkblast/Loam synergize (help find each other and Barren Moors) and Darkblast just has great utility in general.
Innocent Blood deals with T1 DRS, but so does Extirpate on their fetch/Waste/dual. Because of Split Second, you can either counter their mana production or just exile a land before they can use it. You can also counter either of the other 2 activations or just strip a key card without them getting priority to get some value out of it in response. This is why Extirpate over Surgical. It has the added benefit of stripping their deck of mana sources and potentially mana screwing them later, as well as the usual bonus of hand information and stopping graveyard shenanigans in G1. A lot of people argue Extirpate is just card disadvantage in this deck that can only generate virtual card advantage, but I think this is mitigated by its ability to frustrate DRS and the CA generated by both Loam and Scroll.
Sideboard's a bit finnicky right now. Leyline and Plague should be obvious. Leyline because this is a slow deck and you need to wipe out their GY for good; outraces Griselbees; dodges Decay; can still cast future copies.
Chains is just amazing against Blue, especially control decks with Brainstorms and Jaces and Tops. The argument could be made for -1 Chains +1 Pulse. The real advantage of Chains may just be beating players who have no idea what it does. I think Chains and unbounceable creatures beats Jace a lot better than splashing for Punishing Fire, personally. Chains also completely nullifies Reanimate/Show and Tell/Sneak Attack/Goryo's Vengeance/etc into Griselbrand, Sylvan Library, and random cantrips like Gitaxian Probe. Just don't board it in against Dredge...
Pithing Needle/Duress/Pulse/Grip can come in against a whole whack of decks, anything from combo to control hate. I like having that flexibility so you can board stuff in/out accordingly depending on specific lists. I thought about Chalice because of Mox Diamond, but I think Pox actually beats combo better with 6+ T1 discard effects than it does by trying to combo out T1 Chalice and then being able to run 0 targeted discard. Thoughts?
Overall I like your list. Looks pretty solid. Like the one Off Darkblast and the Loam/Mox/CycleLand Package. Not sure about the landcount. Maybe you could cut 1-2.
About the two Extirpate. I understand why you play it, but I thinck this Card is not flexible enough to Play it Main. Why Play a Card that negates the shaman effect if you can play something to get rid of this Card. Maybe a Pulse or the 4 Decay Main...
....or you play a 1off Vraska :D.
Still looking into this archetype...more specifically my g/b list above. Wanted thoughts on main with this board:
2 maelstrom pulse
3 ensnaring bridge
3 surgical extraction
3 perish
2 golgari charm
2 zuran orb
my main deck discard and chalice help against combo and tempo (if it can stick)
@DreAmiN
Consider removing the dark rituals. You have lots of 1cc drops to play on turn one already. Same for turn two.
Better to have a stable mana base.
You could use card draw effects. Phyrexian arena?
I felt that turn one Liliana is one of the most threatening thing in Legacy. Same for something like Tourach+Blood OTD. I remembered old Legacy monoB with T1 Hypnotic Specter, that was a huge threat, Liliana is just better so why not ? Is Dark Ritual that bad after the playtest ? It's like "hey, look i've already no card in hand and you don't have that much either !".Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
About Phyrexian arena, I feel 3 mana is a lot. Maybe while keeping Dark Ritual, otherwise I'm afraid Phyrexian Arena comes a little bit late.
About SB any advice ? I'm pretty sure i've to bring Perish (so much Goyf, Gooze, DRS and so) and Plague (Death'n'Taxes, Gob, Merfolk, Elves -even if the latter is hurt by perish).
If you are running Chalice main then I wouldn't have 1cc Surgical in the side (Extirpate is a little better for us anyway) but rather Leyline of the Void, as I assume you will mostly have Chalice @1.Quote:
Originally Posted by lambert101
I didn't even realize about surgical. Thats what I get for making post during my coffee break.
I think we all like to win. I know I do, and my build certainly wins most of the time. About 60-40 I'd say in competitive matches, but clearly there is room for improvement as it is hard to go 10-0 with a grindy somewhat inconsistent deck,and no obvious solution which is why the board is active with people trying different things to bring the deck up. I think it is interestingto see what people come up with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Loam builds have a lot of merit and are quite good. In a vaccum or goldfishing environment they run better. In practice they have some flaws too. For example I was playing my UR Delver list a couple of weeks ago and ran into playing against playing a Loam Pox build. It was the first time I had faced another Pox list other than my own. It felt odd, but was instructional in some ways. The first game Wastelock was too much for me, second game, PoP and Surgical against Loam did work. The final game I was being controlled pretty well and was about to go down to some Loamed up Factories as I couldnt seem to draw into a Surgical (So much Surgical kept me from running more than one Bloodghast in my own Pox build when I ran them because I was sick of being Extracted of win cons, another reason I think Chalice may have some merit in Loam builds especially) at any rate I had managed to get some basics out past the Wastelock, top drew a Snapcaster, flashed back a Price of Progress against 5 Loamed up non-basics and scored 10 for a lucky knockout blow. I did come away admiring the greater speed of the Loam build when the engine was going, but still a bit wary of its graveyard dependence. Still, the graveyard is the best way to break Pox symmetry, but with so much GY hate and other decks happy with having some graveyard too, ie Punishing Fire, it can be tough to pick your poison.
Extirpate is best against the widest variety of decks, but Leyline they are not as used to seeing and it just ends things completely for Aggro-Loam decks (they at minimum have to burn a Wish for anti-enchantment and it dodges their Chalice) and makes life pretty rough for Punishing Jund as well I have noticed, not to mention the horror it gived Dredge and Reanimator.Quote:
Originally Posted by lambert101
I agree with the loam builds being the way to go. I am trying to make a mainstream list utilizing loam, chalice, and mox diamond. The hardest thing is finding a wincon. I am truly considering Varaksa as a 2 of for a walker build.
4 loam
4 hymn
4 pox
4 small pox
4 lily
2 varaska
4 mox
4 Decay
2 m pulse
2 library
4 chalice
1 tabernacle
4 wasteland
4 bayou
4 verdant
5 swamps
4 factory
Worm Harvest and/or Syphon Life are good Loam Pox wincons.
@DreAmiN
The odds is not in your favour. To begin a game with both rituals and liliana in hand happen only a fifth of the games.
Then you have lost a card to play lil, and what next? If you use the ability to discard you will be down to three cards in hand allready and your opponent six.
The odds of having both rituals, liliana, and something like nether spirit to discard, at start is down to ca 5%.
All this assumes that you win the dice roll. Going second is worse of course.
These disadvantages of ritual was pointed out to me by others. As a consequence my build moved a way from costly stuff, as much as was possible, along with an adjustment to my play.
Do you think 1 of each (wurm harvest + Syphon Life) would be better than 2 Varaskas? Also considering 2 nether shadows in that wincon space.Quote:
Originally Posted by beez