Thalia Stompy

So Eternal Extravaganza was yesterday . I started out with a bye .
1-0
rd2 Punishing maverick 1-2 i win the roll and smash him. he gets turn three knight of the reliquary and wastelands me out of the game . Game three he does the same thing except a turn faster and with a follow up knight the next turn.. i see no action and die very quickly .
rd3. Soldier stompy 0-2 He wins the die roll . starts Chrome Mox ,Ancient tomb into big Thalia which slows me down enough for hime to make a bunch of dudes and attack me for a million on like turn 3. game 2 i mulligan to 5 keeping a hand because it has lands and spells He Plays some creatures that kill me on turn 3 again. It was awesome. The round took 9 minutes.
rd4 Food Chain .1-2 He wins the roll and kills me after i thought knot away his Ballista he proceeds to draw another.Game 2 i win with Thalias and thorns and TKS. Game three is grindy and i have to use walking ballista to win because he has an Ensnaring Bridge .it ends up with him at 5 life, me with a Ballista on 4 and him bouncing his Shardless Agent to cascade into an Abrupt Decay which wins him the game cuz i'm at three.
rd5 Dark maverick.2-0 These game were easy . I drew well
rd6 Omnitell. 2-0. Karakas and Containment priest get there game one and game two i played a bunch of Thalias and TKS
rd7 Food Chain 0-2..He wins the roll. i daw a bunch of Ballistas, he kills me . He just has it with multiple Ballistas and whatever the card is they use to exile the dudes..
drop. It just wasn't my day...Ending up 3-4 SUCKS
Kinda been missing Revoker lately. especially after yesterday .

I just don't know if this deck is very good in the current meta...

It's not positioned perfectly right now, but I still think it's competitive if you tune it correctly for the metagame.

Peter Tragos (who got 1st with the deck not too long ago) got a 2nd place finish couple weeks ago. Decklist is here: http://articles.nerdragegaming.com/d...-ct-sept-2017/

Creatures
4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 x Eldrazi Displacer
4 x Thought-Knot Seer
4 x Stoneforge Mystic
3 x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 x Reality Smasher
2 x Palace Jailer
Artifacts
4 x Chalice of the Void
3 x Mox Diamond
1 x Umezawa’s Jitte
1 x Batterskull
1 x Sword of Fire and Ice
1 x Lotus Petal

Land
7 x Plains (331)
4 x Ancient Tomb
4 x Eldrazi Temple
4 x Cavern of Souls
3 x City of Traitors
3 x Karakas

Sideboard
3 x Containment Priest
3 x Swords to Plowshares
3 x Rest in Peace
2 x Thorn of Amethyst
2 x Disenchant
1 x Sword of Fire and Ice
1 x Armageddon

I think Stoneforge Mystic is definitely the way to go these days, with grindy midrange strategies being so popular. I used to say it was too slow in this deck, but the power level is undeniable, and despite combo's supposed resurgence after the Top banning, Legacy seems pretty "fair" right now.

A few things I notice right away: no Wasteland, 7 plains. I think this is a concession to all land destruction right now (Moons and Wastelands mostly). I find that most of my losses come from the unstable manabase (either excess damage from Tombs, or mana screw/flood).

Zero Walking Ballista, 2 Jailer. Certainly the extra white sources help cast Jailer more reliably, and the inclusion of Jitte and SoFI reduces the dependence on Ballista a bit. I still like Ballista a lot here, but I think you can make a convincing argument for either.

3 Smasher. I think this is one of the best cards in the deck, and I would always play 4.

1 Lotus Petal. More 1st turn Chalices and Thalias seems good.

Not sure why there's a 2nd SoFI in the board. Armageddon seems like a fun-of/pet card.

All in all it's a very solid list with some quirks. He lost to UW Stoneblade in the finals. I think it's really interesting to compare the two decks: the power of FoW/TNN/Jace/Snappy/STP vs. Chalice/Eldrazi/Thalia. Could be that blue is better in this metagame.

I am seeing a ton of czech pile so my deck is tuned more to handle blue control at the moment. With that said stoneforge mystic is a terrible card. It will get countered or killed before you get to use batterskull and jitte is often a dead card with so many tiny creatures. What I have done is go less offense and more defense. Reality Smasher is often a win-more card I only use it against small armies that forgot to put big creature removal in. You should be able to beat them with displacer and thought-knot. If you can't you are doing something wrong. Smasher is worthless against combo decks also - you need defense.

//Creatures
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Mangara of Corondor
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Spellskite
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thought-Knot Seer

//Spells
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Council's Judgment
3 Mox Diamond
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Warping Wail

//Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Karakas
7 Plains
3 Wasteland

//Sideboard
SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Leonin Arbiter
SB: 2 Meddling Mage
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Reality Smasher
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt

It controls with static permanent effects. The object is to slow them down and lock them up while surprising them with speed of your own. It easily wins grind matches against fair decks. The Sideboard is there to take care of the fast combo decks. The slower they are the more I can make discard painful with Thought-Knot Seer.

Meddling Mage can be an uncounterable play with Cavern of Souls on Humans.

Spellskite to screw with infect and burn. It also protects my creatures that have important abilities or can even redirect a destroy artifact meant for chalice to it. I'm look at abrupt decay and kol command or wear and tear.

Spirit of the Labyrinth to stop card advantage decks and force a response.

Warping Wail to exile small creatures and Council's Judgment to exile large creatures. Also it can protect me from discard, mass creature removal, or other nasty sorceries.

Disenchant to stop artifacts, artifact creatures, and enchantments.

Rest in Peace to save me from graveyard abusers.

Containment Priest to stop people trying to cheat creatures into play with spells, enchantments, or artifacts.

Leonin Arbiter to slow down people trying to tutor their pieces and to be annoying to fetch lands.

Pithing Needle to stop lands that Phyrexian Revoker cannot touch.

Karakas to save me from a quick drop of Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or Griselbrand and to help me defend my legendary creatures or replay them.

Reality Smasher if people are running too many fatal push, lightning bolt, and weenie creatures.

Phyrexian Revoker to name mana artifacts, Deathrite Shaman or anything else nasty.

Ethersworn Canonist for storm and aluren.

I opted for tormod's crypt to have extra graveyard hate that does not slow me down because of deathrite shaman, snapcaster mage, tarmogoyf, life from the loam, past in flames, delve spells, etc.

Mangara of Corondor can be blinked with either Karakas or Eldrazi Displacer. If they have anything of value that is hit first. If not their land goes away turn by turn. Once in place many opponents concede. Repeated thought-knot seer can beat opponents into submission as well.

***I cannot tell you how many games Mangara won me the game because I had the removal I needed. I am much happier having her in there than smasher. ***

Gunna be trying this out .Seems good against anything wanting to 1 for 1 and against most combo, which is like half the field.

Creatures

4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 blade splicer
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Reality Smasher
3 Phyrexian revoker
2 Palace Jailer
27

Artifacts

4 x Chalice of the Void
4 x Lotus Petal
1 x Umezawa’s Jitte
9

Land

5 Plains
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
2 Wasteland
2 City of Traitors
24

Sideboard

3 Containment Priest
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Disenchant
1 winter orb
1 Hero of blade hold
15

So a card from Ixalan caught my eye and i'm gunna give it a shot at a couple weekly events . the card is Legion Conquistador . i'm gunna try it in the shell above but only 3 Blade splicer in place of the Revokers and 4 Conquistador, also thinking about making one of the palace jailers a Hero of Bladehold. I'm gunna give it a shot and see how it works if its crappy then i'll know.

I played a version of this deck on Monday. I wanted to play something different, especially as the more I play a deck at my LGS, the worse I tend to do overall. Instead of a mono red Blood Moon or mono red Storm, I decided to dust off my Vintage deck, take out all the Vintage cards (Black Lotus, how I miss thee!) and make the deck Legacy legal, just for fun.

List:
Land: 24
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
5 Plains

Artifact:
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

Creature:
4 Walking Ballista
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Containment Priest
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Reality Smasher

Sideboard:
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Vryn Wingmare
1 Containment Priest
2 Fairgrounds Warden
2 Orzhof Pontiff
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Rest in Peace
2 Disenchant

Round 1: Hybrid Dnt/Thalia Stompy
First round opponent, immediately started laughing when I played Thalia turn 1. He thought (as he usually does) that I copied his list, and he always says that every single deck he plays is a 100% brew, 100% original, just because he changes 2-3 cards from a stock list online.
He wins game 1 due to having Displacer/Priest for all my creatures, but game 2 I get a Displacer online before he does, and that allows us to play a real game 3. In the end, my sideboard is better than his for the mirror match. He has Mother of Runes, Revokers, and Flickerwisps, I have Pontiff, which clears the board for my creatures to swing in for lethal. He complains that he should have sided in his Magus of the Moon, and honestly it might have worked, as I do not run Diamonds ...
1-0

Round 2: Infect
Game 1 he wrecks me with unblockable + Invigorate. Game 2 I wreck his board with a Pontiff, and game 3 Chalice of the Void saves my life. He swings in with multiple Blighted Agents over 4 turns, but again, Pontiff kills his only sources of damage, and he shows me 3 Vines of Vastwood and a Brainstorm as he concedes.
2-0

Round 3: Food Chain
Having the ability to exile my opponents creatures doesn't really help when they can just cast them from exile ...
Game1 he hides behind a Baleful Strix and my hand never comes together to allow me to blink his Strix. I stupidly allow him to keep it up instead of just attacking into it, as a result, he kills me with a Deathrite Shaman. Game 2, I wreck his face with Reality Smasher and a Displaced TK-S, hurting his hand every turn. Game 3, I 100% punted, holding the Disenchant in my hand, looking at the stupid Food Chain in play, and brain farting, allowing him to combo off. All I had to do was kill Food Chain in response to the Eternal Scourge, but I am so used to NOT having an answer against Food Chain with my other decks, that I immediately let him resolve his creatures and loop. I'm a dumbass,
2-1 (punt)

Round 4: Czech Pile
Opponent decided we would split in advance, but still play for the extra pack. Unfortunately this also caused me to play a little more slowly than I usually do, and my opponent does have a habit of playing a little slower than expected. This caused us to go to time, as we played an incredibly long game 2. Game 1 I locked him down fairly quickly, blindsiding him with Cavern of Souls and white cards, as opposed to Blood Moons and Rabblemasters. Game 2 we drag our feet, but have an actual good match, killing eachothers threats with various removal. We have 3 minutes as we start game 3, and we end up drawing due to time.
2-1-1 (should have played faster, but since it was more for practice than for prize, we both took our time.)

Afterthoughts:
I like Pontiff, and I used Fairgounds Warden because I didn't want to rely on double White for Palace Jailer. In the end, I cannot say if it was worth it, because I had a basic plains in the games where I casted him. Disenchant is 100% required, as there is another player who plays "Dragon Stompy" but his is the new prison version, which hides behind Ensnaring Bridge and has 8 Moon effects main. I also chose Wingmares over Thorns, as I thought I needed more flying threats/blockers. I lose to a random Moat game 1, unless I can manage to save up enough mana to Cavern in some Walking Ballistae.

Yelp review of deck: 4/5, much fun, will play again.

I'm hoping to get some time to stream this deck in the evening ala twitch if anyone would be interested. Last three leagues I've went 3-2 4-1 4-1.

Sorcerous Spyglass has been really good out of the board shutting down thespian stage, wasteland, and fetchlands, but I may trim one to bring back sword of f&i which is another way to beat nemesis. Also considering trimming a swords for a pontiff.


// 60 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

// 25 Creature
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Reality Smasher
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Palace Jailer
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Blade Splicer
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Orzhov Pontiff

// 25 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
2 City of Traitors
5 Plains
3 Wasteland

// 15 Sideboard
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Containment Priest
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Rest in Peace
2 Disenchant
3 Swords to Plowshares

I see that some have replace Mox Diamond with Lotus Petal.
Is that for budget concern, or is it more efficient this way ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChrisDissent

I see that some have replace Mox Diamond with Lotus Petal.
Is that for budget concern, or is it more efficient this way ?

---

Efficiency 100%. I own mox diamonds in paper but play with the petals. Obviously there’s the card disadvantage with diamonds, but also to a lesser extent feeding deathrite. Double diamond is bad, but double lotus is good. You typically only need one time use also.

If you play the deck, just mentally replace the diamonds with petals or vice versa to see which you’d typically like to see. For me it’s been petals 90% of the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by contra

I'm hoping to get some time to stream this deck in the evening ala twitch if anyone would be interested. Last three leagues I've went 3-2 4-1 4-1.

Sorcerous Spyglass has been really good out of the board shutting down thespian stage, wasteland, and fetchlands, but I may trim one to bring back sword of f&i which is another way to beat nemesis. Also considering trimming a swords for a pontiff.


// 60 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

// 25 Creature
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Reality Smasher
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Palace Jailer
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Blade Splicer
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Orzhov Pontiff

// 25 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
2 City of Traitors
5 Plains
3 Wasteland

// 15 Sideboard
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Containment Priest
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Rest in Peace
2 Disenchant
3 Swords to Plowshares

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Links to twitch?

@contra i like your deck and currently settled with a quite similiar build

// 60 Maindeck

// 10 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Diamond
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

// 25 Creature
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Reality Smasher
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Walking Ballista
2 Blade Splicer
2 Palace Jailer
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Recruiter of the Guard

// 25 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Karakas
5 Plains
4 Wasteland

// 15 Sideboard
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Orzhov Pontiff
SB: 1 Mangara of Corondor
SB: 1 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 3 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 Disenchant

Recruiter is a random dude (can be sfm 3 or something else) but it allow me to tutor up a lot of stuff for most situations and also interacts well with sideboard targets.

Sorcerous Spyglass is also a card i like, thought even about it maindeck (without sfm because i dont like to overload with non-creature spells here) cause it offers a solid t1 play against random opponents too. I also still like the idea of a black splash to brew something with Bearer of Silence and/or Wasteland Strangler. Still run Mox over Petal and are happy with it in most cases. But as contra said both can work and sometimes one is better as the other. I also ask me every game "If this is a Petal, is it better or not?!" - maybe i should write it down to have a real samplesize.

Split the finals of the Top deck monthly 1k today playing this list . It felt nearly perfect all day.

4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 blade splicer
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Reality Smasher
3 Walking Ballista
1 Hero of Bladehold
25

Artifacts

4 x Chalice of the Void
4 x Lotus Petal
2 x Umezawa’s Jitte
10

Land

6 Plains
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
2 Wasteland
2 City of Traitors
25

Sideboard

3 Containment Priest
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 forsake the worldly
1 Palace Jailer
1 Orzhov Pontiff
15

Went 5-1-2
Rd1 Sneak and show 2-0.
Rd2 Bug control. 2-0 .
Rd3 Sneak and show 2-1
Rd4 i.d.
Rd6 i.d.
Top 8 Czech pile 2-0 .Blade Splicer does work.
Top 4 Food chain 2-1 Hero of blade hold , chalice and Blade splicer win me game 2 and 3
Finals . I concede for a favorable Prize split so he could have the Bye for Eternal weekend ,as I'm not going. Haven't really played many events other than EE ( which went poorly) in the past couple months , good to know i can still convert.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by metronome2charisma

Split the finals of the Top deck monthly 1k today playing this list . It felt nearly perfect all day.

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Thanks for sharing. What was the "nearly" in the list and changes you may make ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChrisDissent

Thanks for sharing. What was the "nearly" in the list and changes you may make ?

---

I will probably run a Smugglers copter over the 2nd Jitte in the main and a third Forsake the worldly over the 2nd Ratchet bomb in the board. A lot of match ups are very easy ,one that isn't is food chain. The 3rd forsake is to give you more outs to Food Chain itself, which helps the match up considerably .
The deck is purpose built to try to beat other fair decks trying to one for one while still keeping your combo match ups intact . Making your clock as aggressive as possible while staying ahead of your opponents removal is key.(or just blanking it with chalice is good too.)

Congrats metronome! I wish I could make it out to more of those events myself.

Hero of Bladehold can definitely be good if there are lots of mid-range decks with bolts.

I haven’t had a chance to play test the following idea, but I’m thinking of trying out Remote Farm in conjunction with 3 city of traitors by cutting wastelands and playing a higher curve with bladehold, jailer, and other double white bears like prelate. Just brainstorming here - a manabase that looks like this:

5 Plains
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Karakas
3 Remote Farm
3 City of Traitors

Quote:

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Originally Posted by contra

Congrats metronome! I wish I could make it out to more of those events myself.

Hero of Bladehold can definitely be good if there are lots of mid-range decks with bolts.

I haven’t had a chance to play test the following idea, but I’m thinking of trying out Remote Farm in conjunction with 3 city of traitors by cutting wastelands and playing a higher curve with bladehold, jailer, and other double white bears like prelate. Just brainstorming here - a manabase that looks like this:

5 Plains
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Karakas
3 Remote Farm
3 City of Traitors

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That is not a good idea. We want to be playing something on T1, that's why we have either mox or petal with the sol lands. Peter Tragos's article emphasizes on how much it would gain you win %age ponts just by having that T1 play. Remote Farm isn't even a good T2 play either...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by darkgh0st

That is not a good idea. We want to be playing something on T1, that's why we have either mox or petal with the sol lands. Peter Tragos's article emphasizes on how much it would gain you win %age ponts just by having that T1 play. Remote Farm isn't even a good T2 play either...

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Thanks contra! I wish you could make it out more too.
I have to agree with darkgh0st on the Remote Farm idea, i feel like we wanna have as stable of a mana base as possible and having basic plains is a very powerful weapon/tool. Maybe one isn't bad but if you're gunna cut Wasteland completely you can run as many as 8 Plains along with 3 Cities which is plenty of white mana to cast double white. I think 6 plains is plenty to have as many as three double white humans in the deck . I'm guessing the reason Peter Tragos cut wasteland for more plains is because he needed non cavern white sources to consistently cast stone forge mystic early which is precisely why i don't run Stoneforge or leonin arbiter ,or Wingmare or any number of other white non human , non eldrazi creatures.
I do however like the idea of 2 hero main deck. Maxing out the "aggro stompy" feel of the deck game one , with plenty of flexibility and answers out of the board . Something like this-ish.


4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 blade splicer
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Reality Smasher
2 Hero of Bladehold
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
25

Artifacts

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Smugglers copter
10

Land

6 Plains
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
3 City of Traitors
1 Mishras Factory

25

Sideboard

3 Containment Priest
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ratchet Bomb
3 Forsake the worldly
2 Palace Jailer
1 Orzhov Pontiff
15

This card might be worth discussing: Unclaimed Territory

Essentially Cavern 5-8, but without the uncounterable clause.

Cons:
- makes it harder to use colored mana, especially for SB cards that aren't human or Eldrazi.
- weak to non-basic hate (e.g. Wasteland, Blood Moon, B2B, PoP, etc.)

Pros:
- When set to Human, it allows to cast every Eldrazi (minus Displacer, but allows activations) and Human alike.
- Combined with Cavern, it makes splashing for other Humans easier.

Especially the last point is interesting. SB cards like Pontiff become alot more feasible. However, the main appeal would be running Trophy Mage. While Pirate Stompy turned out to be a joke and the Rishadan pirates to be overcosted jank, the combo of Trophy Mage + CoW was actually pretty strong and game-winning once you start to Wastelock them. CoW also has synergy with Mox Diamond (over Lotus Petal in that kind of build) and Smuggler's Copter. The Mage also allows for some toolbox like Sword of X & Y, Trinisphere and other silly 3-mana artifacts in the 75.

Of course there's other dumb stuff like Rasputin Dreamweaver + Displacer for infinite mana --> Ballista nuking, Displacer + Lavinia of the Tenth to cripple quite a few decks or even more taxing with Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, but I wanted to be realistic.

Hi,
which is better in a 25 land count.
3 or 4 Mox Diamond?

if you use 3 Mox Diamond, is it good to include 1 Lotus Petal instead of another Mox Diamond?
because I saw the build of Peter Tragos and it has 3 Mox Diamond and 1 Lotus Petal.

Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cin

Hi,
which is better in a 25 land count.
3 or 4 Mox Diamond?

if you use 3 Mox Diamond, is it good to include 1 Lotus Petal instead of another Mox Diamond?
because I saw the build of Peter Tragos and it has 3 Mox Diamond and 1 Lotus Petal.

Thanks!

---

3 Mox. The 4th one is doable but clunky so run Petal instead.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by darkgh0st

3 Mox. The 4th one is doable but clunky so run Petal instead.

---

Thanks for the answer. How about the Thalia, Heretic Cathar? Is it good to have 4 copies of it in a deck or just 3? Again thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cin

Thanks for the answer. How about the Thalia, Heretic Cathar? Is it good to have 4 copies of it in a deck or just 3? Again thanks!

---

I've tried 4 as well. Multiples of her gets stuck a lot in your hand, it becomes negative tempo... unless you are running more than 2 Copters. I preferred having 3 and no Copter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by darkgh0st

I've tried 4 as well. Multiples of her gets stuck a lot in your hand, it becomes negative tempo... unless you are running more than 2 Copters. I preferred having 3 and no Copter.

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Thanks again darkgh0st, This time ill ask everyone, which deck is better, the Normal Eldrazi Aggro Deck (w/ Matter Reshapers, Endless One, SSG etc.) or the Eldrazi & Taxes / Thalia Stompy?

Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cin

Thanks again darkgh0st, This time ill ask everyone, which deck is better, the Normal Eldrazi Aggro Deck (w/ Matter Reshapers, Endless One, SSG etc.) or the Eldrazi & Taxes / Thalia Stompy?

Thanks!

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It's like question which deck is better Zoo or D&T. White Eldrazich is more controlling with better late game specially Stoneforge builds.Colorless Eldrazich is more like Zoo if they don't end game fast until turn 5 they are on disadvantage. White is more resilient with better tools to fight Moon effects, artifacts etc, Thalia is great vs combo decks. You also have good cards against vs TNN or swarm like Elves.

So colorless faster with worst late game, white slower with better late and tools vs unfair plays.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fatal

It's like question which deck is better Zoo or D&T. White Eldrazich is more controlling with better late game specially Stoneforge builds.Colorless Eldrazich is more like Zoo if they don't end game fast until turn 5 they are on disadvantage. White is more resilient with better tools to fight Moon effects, artifacts etc, Thalia is great vs combo decks. You also have good cards against vs TNN or swarm like Elves.

So colorless faster with worst late game, white slower with better late and tools vs unfair plays.

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Absolute right! Colorless Eldrazi are hyper Aggro-Stompy which is good if it can overrun the opponent as fast as possible. If the opponent is prepared or you draw the wrong stuff you will have a hard time. White Eldrazi tend to be slower (no Mimic into Big Beater Starts) but have a better Combo Matchup ( especially S&S/Reanimator) and a flexible game plan that includes mid to lategame options with more card advantage. It is also possible to play it more aggressiv (Blade Splicer) or controlled (Stoneforge) both ways includes card advantage and both can grind out games too. Its also a matter of playstyle if you include Thalia 2.0 which is a super strong opener but a bad topdeck if you are behind.

---------

I currently explore a more aggressiv idea including B-Splash, works fine too.

5th at recent SCG Classic:

3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Containment Priest
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Diamond
2 Smuggler's Copter
2 Umezawa's Jitte
5 Plains
3 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Wasteland
3 Karakas

2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Containment Priest
3 Rest in Peace
2 Disenchant
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Armageddon

This interesting list 5-0'd an MTGO League:

2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Angel of Sanctions
2 Mirran Crusader
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Karakas
9 Plains
4 Wasteland

2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Rest in Peace
3 Council's Judgment
1 Holy Light
4 Thorn of Amethyst

It's like some ungodly mixture of Death & Taxes and Thalia Stompy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by keys

It's like some ungodly mixture of Death & Taxes and Thalia Stompy.

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Lol. The above is my list. I built it based off of the list Andrea Mengucci taped here: https://www.channelfireball.com/vide...white-eldrazi/, but made a few changes. I hated the initial manabase and not having access to early removal.

It's kind of been shooting in the dark because there isn't much discussion of this build out there. Have been toying with adding a couple of sanctum prelates. Any thoughts on replacing Crusader with Prelate entirely?

I'm only about a week and a half into Legacy, coming from Eldrazi & Taxes in modern.

Yet another 5-0:

3 Blade Splicer
3 Flickerwisp
3 Palace Jailer
2 Restoration Angel
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Chrome Mox
2 Smuggler's Copter
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
3 Karakas
8 Plains

2 Cataclysm
2 Containment Priest
3 Council's Judgment
2 Holy Light
3 Rest in Peace
3 Trinisphere

I’ve been playing a similar list with 8 basics and no wastelands. My idea is to be able to consistently cast white spells, dodge opposing wastelands, and play more spells requiring double white.

It feels better against Czech pile (I’m 8-0 is games!) with 3 crusaders and elspeth out of the board; generally just going bigger and wider with diverse threats. This makes sense to me because I feel extremely favored against unfair decks with chalice, Thalia, Karakas, and thorn and I’d like to have some game against grindy mid range decks looking to go to the end game.

I dropped StP from the board with the strategy of never boarding out chalice, except against other stompy decks. Against DnT it blanks their StP and PtE from the side.

The greatest thing for me about the list is the sideboard map. The strategy is very straight forward to me, and g2 across all matchups I have zero dead cards.
25 LANDS

4 Ancient Tomb

4 Cavern of Souls

3 City of Traitors

4 Eldrazi Temple

3 Karakas

7 Plains

25 CREATURES

3 Eldrazi Displacer

3 Mirran Crusader

2 Palace Jailer

2 Phyrexian Revoker

3 Reality Smasher

4 Stoneforge Mystic

4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

4 Thought-Knot Seer

10 OTHER SPELLS

1 Batterskull

4 Chalice of the Void

3 Lotus Petal

1 Sword of Fire and Ice

1 Umezawa's Jitte

SIDEBOARD

2 Containment Priest

1 Council’s Judgement

2 Disenchant

2 Elspeth, Knight Errant

2 Ethersworn Canonist

2 Faerie Macabre

1 Orzhov Pontiff

1 Holy Light

1 Sword of War and Peace

1 Thorn of Amethyst

25 lands seems like so many. Don't you have flood issues?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gordoape

25 lands seems like so many. Don't you have flood issues?

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Mana flooding can occur in any deck. 25 lands is the commonly accepted number, based on extensive tournament play. Your curve and land count can be adjusted slightly up or down based on the cards you run in the flex slots or the sideboard. In general, though, keep these things in mind:

1) This deck has a high curve. You can't keep one-landers and you need to be able to play your spells even after a Wasteland. Three lands + four spells or four lands + three spells is a solid keep in the dark. Chalice of the Void or Thalia are your preferred Turn 1 plays, and you want to make land drops for your first three or four turns.

2) This deck is mana-hungry. Extra mana is beneficial with Eldrazi Displacer, equpping equipment, activating Stoneforge, rebuying Batterskull, holding up Karakas to save a Thalia, etc.

3) Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is symmetrical, so in some matchups you'll be playing more cards that you'll be taxed on, raising your mana curve slightly. Again, a higher land count is beneficial.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ESG

Mana flooding can occur in any deck. 25 lands is the commonly accepted number, based on extensive tournament play. Your curve and land count can be adjusted slightly up or down based on the cards you run in the flex slots or the sideboard. In general, though, keep these things in mind:

1) This deck has a high curve. You can't keep one-landers and you need to be able to play your spells even after a Wasteland. Three lands + four spells or four lands + three spells is a solid keep in the dark. Chalice of the Void or Thalia are your preferred Turn 1 plays, and you want to make land drops for your first three or four turns.

2) This deck is mana-hungry. Extra mana is beneficial with Eldrazi Displacer, equpping equipment, activating Stoneforge, rebuying Batterskull, holding up Karakas to save a Thalia, etc.

3) Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is symmetrical, so in some matchups you'll be playing more cards that you'll be taxed on, raising your mana curve slightly. Again, a higher land count is beneficial.

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The reason i brought it up is that 25 doesn't seem to be the commonly accepted number for this list. If you look back at the 5-0 decks posted here, I believe they're all running 21, with my list at 23 the highest. Alifromcairo_it was running like 20 lands in some of his 5-0 lists. And this is along with the lotus petals (or moxes) as many accelerant. Agree with the point that the deck can be mana hungry especially if you're playing displacer. However to me, especially without any card selection 25 lands + 3 lotus petals is scary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gordoape

The reason i brought it up is that 25 doesn't seem to be the commonly accepted number for this list. If you look back at the 5-0 decks posted here, I believe they're all running 21, with my list at 23 the highest. Alifromcairo_it was running like 20 lands in some of his 5-0 lists. And this is along with the lotus petals (or moxes) as many accelerant. Agree with the point that the deck can be mana hungry especially if you're playing displacer. However to me, especially without any card selection 25 lands + 3 lotus petals is scary.

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True. Congrats on your success when taking a different path. I don't know if you've been through the full thread here (if you haven't, it might be interesting historical perspective), but 25 lands was the consensus for a while, which I think was cemented after Peter Tragos' good results. Numbers aren't set in stone, though. One change often precipitates another change. Your deck has a lower curve, and it's a stretch to call it the same deck, in my opinion. It's more like Death & Taxes than Eldrazi, but no problem. As long as everyone provides a list, other folks can tailor their suggestions accordingly. This lower-land build eschews the Eldrazi lands and runs more white cards and Chrome Mox. The land count is too low to run Mox Diamond, and the white-card count is higher, so Chrome Mox is slotted in instead. And no Reality Smashers. I tested something similar a long time ago and wasn't happy with it, but if you're winning, then keep doing what you're doing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gordoape

Lol. The above is my list. I built it based off of the list Andrea Mengucci taped here: https://www.channelfireball.com/vide...white-eldrazi/, but made a few changes. I hated the initial manabase and not having access to early removal.

It's kind of been shooting in the dark because there isn't much discussion of this build out there. Have been toying with adding a couple of sanctum prelates. Any thoughts on replacing Crusader with Prelate entirely?

I'm only about a week and a half into Legacy, coming from Eldrazi & Taxes in modern.

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Your design is clear if you make your first steps in legacy so far - modern has a lot of more removal since it evolves more about Creatures, while in legacy removal is not bad and sometimes clearly needed you will get enough situations where your removal is pointless and Swords (while one of the best) is super dead (with your own Chalice!) and if you face TNN, Grisel/Emrakul, a flying 20/20 Token etc. Since Legacy is more "un"fair compared to modern, you will quickly need better solutions than 1:1 Spell based Removal in a topdeck-stompy-deck. Displacer is a kind of removal here and one of the best to deal with unfair situations, it gets better with C.Priest or P.Jailer (or Flickerwisp) but dont need anyone - but it needs mana and this is the reason we have a 25(24) manabase too, it will also allow a quicker TKS (since temple counts too) as disruption and the feared Smasher as one of the best attack moves you can play here.

Yes you can skip all the Eldrazi and play a Stompy-DnT shell, but even here Chalice+Swords is not so good (we all have Swords at Side because we switch them with Chalice G2) and something like Palace Jailer worked out as a bomb for DnT users too and should be in if you already use Tombs/Mox Ramp.

But as ESG already said: "but if you're winning, then keep doing what you're doing." :wink: so welcome to legacy!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MD.Ghost

Your design is clear if you make your first steps in legacy so far - modern has a lot of more removal since it evolves more about Creatures, while in legacy removal is not bad and sometimes clearly needed you will get enough situations where your removal is pointless and Swords (while one of the best) is super dead (with your own Chalice!) and if you face TNN, Grisel/Emrakul, a flying 20/20 Token etc. Since Legacy is more "un"fair compared to modern, you will quickly need better solutions than 1:1 Spell based Removal in a topdeck-stompy-deck. Displacer is a kind of removal here and one of the best to deal with unfair situations, it gets better with C.Priest or P.Jailer (or Flickerwisp) but dont need anyone - but it needs mana and this is the reason we have a 25(24) manabase too, it will also allow a quicker TKS (since temple counts too) as disruption and the feared Smasher as one of the best attack moves you can play here.

Yes you can skip all the Eldrazi and play a Stompy-DnT shell, but even here Chalice+Swords is not so good (we all have Swords at Side because we switch them with Chalice G2) and something like Palace Jailer worked out as a bomb for DnT users too and should be in if you already use Tombs/Mox Ramp.

But as ESG already said: "but if you're winning, then keep doing what you're doing." :wink: so welcome to legacy!

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Thanks for the replies! I'm not bound to my build being correct (it's shown to have some definite matchup weaknesses so far). Death and Taxes and Maverick have been especially tough. On the flipside combo, including reanimator and sneak and show have been a breeze.

With the plows, I just found that the original Alifromcairo_IT list I was running (that had 3 judgements in the main) was folding in a flash to early threats I couldn't answer when I didn't have a chalice on turn 1. It does get blanked sometimes, but is an effective chrome mox pitch and a necessary godsend sometimes when i haven't had the chalice.

I have done a little testing with Palace Jailer and I'm still not sure. It's both won and lost me games.

Funny enough I may be too gunshy about Eldrazi Displacer simply because of Modern. I have never liked the card there in E&T because it always felt way too slow and mana hungry for me. Legacy is a different beast and I am open to trying more of the Eldrazi heavy builds with temples.

Hey Guys,

I ran a list similar to Tim Turner's SCG Baltimore Classic Top 8, with a couple of sideboard changes. My buddy and I recorded a league that I ran 5-0 with in addition to a Deck Tech. Hope you enjoy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c...eague_footage/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DudeItsCorey

Hey Guys,

I ran a list similar to Tim Turner's SCG Baltimore Classic Top 8, with a couple of sideboard changes. My buddy and I recorded a league that I ran 5-0 with in addition to a Deck Tech. Hope you enjoy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c...eague_footage/

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Thanks for running this; I'm only short a few minor cards of being able to run this and I am debating doing it to see. Do you feel like this would have game at a larger event?