Engineered Explosives only needs one plains to kill blood moon ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
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Engineered Explosives only needs one plains to kill blood moon ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Yes that spot can definitely be an E.E
It is better also to kill Counterbalance in the mirror
But does Blood Moon even hurt? Blood moon against a deck which plays blood moon itself.
I probably play explosives with only 2 colors. It's so felxible and kills chalice and tokens.
turn 0 Blood Moon is a super problem, yes. Overall if followed by a turn 2 or 3 threath and you are out of white
Has anyone considered Brightling over Mentor as a secondary win con?
I'm on UW, think the Jim Davis list, and just ordered Brightlings to test. Slightly slower clock but impossible to kill? Lifelink seems super relevant and I think Brightling is better late game when you don't have extra spells to feed mentor.
IMHO this deck wants to ambush.. Entreat is super but Mentor’s explosivity can close the game in 2 turns Brightling would need tons of white mana to deal very little damage
I would rather test further Archangel Avacyn. Her flip is as good as a Terminus, has flash and can be bounced back with Karakas in a Legendary build with Clique and Venser
Like
1 Venser
1 Avacyn
3 Clique
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Entreat
3 Jace
2 Karakas
1 Cavern of Soul into Wizard
2 Search for Azcanta
Sure you lose B2B, Blood Moon and From the Ashes..which is relevant
We might either go the UW way and play 3 Karakas a la DnT or simply stay basic and play 3 colors.
I am positive the best is to go Jeskay, but this deck totally needs a new tool. Like a flashy planeswalker or a new Mentor level threath
So I traded all of my Legacy Infect cards to make a tier 1 Yugioh deck for this season, and now I am shifting it back to MTG. I do not have Volcanic Islands, so for now I am going to be building a UW version. I am sure that this can take advantage of Back to Basics better than other builds, so that will be in the side deck. I want it to be more aggro, and based on Monastery Mentor.
It looks like 3 Jace is standard. Is this the case? Last time I played Miracles, 2 was fine alongside Mentor. If this has changed, let me know. It also looks like builds are running Entreat alongside Mentor. Is there a good reason for this?
Here is what I am thinking, please tell me what I should change if there are many suboptimal choices:
Lands: 20
4x Tundra
4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
1x Windswept Heath (Feels odd, but it's what is in front of me.)
4x Island
3x Plains
Creatures/Plainswalkers: 9
2x Jace, The Mind Sculptor
4x Monastery Mentor
3x Snapcaster Mage
Other: 31
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Terminus
4x Ponder
3x Preordain
3x Counterbalance (I have seen 2 being played. I will cut the 3rd for something recommended if there are good options)
2x Predict
1x Council's Judgement
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Counterspell
Side Deck: 15
3x Surgical Extraction
3x Flusterstorm
3x Vendilion Clique
3x Back To Basics
2x Disenchant
1x Council's Judgment
Let me know what you guys think, and what you would change.
Super consistent.
I just wonder why Preordain over Portent and only 1 Counterspell in a world of Kolaghan’s Command and Hymn to Tourach.. additionally I have found Kozilek Return to be so good with Mentor that I can’t play one without the other.
EOT Brainstorm into K.Return and you win in that moment 50% of the times (Czech Pile, Grixis, DnT they all lose so many creatures to this)
Idk about Portent because it is more of a delayed gratification thing. I am sure that it is fine, and it lets you dig deeper than Preordain. If Preordain is out classed by Portent in this deck, then I would just straight up replace the two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
As far as the second Counterspell goes, it felt funny just playing 1. I would try to fit a second one in there by either taking out a Counterbalance or a Ponder.
3 Counterbalance means you see it more, and Counterbalance wins games on its own. If they don't have an answer, they lose. At least that is how it was when I played it. By no means am I saying that what I think is more relevant than what you think because I have not played the game in a while. So if this reasoning is incorrect or flawed, let me know. But the way I am thinking right now is that Counterbalance is a card that wins, and so you would want to see it over Counterspell, which just helps stall until you see a win condition.
Ponder is a consistency card, and so it really feels like that should stay. This deck is playing 4 Mentor, and I have seen most of the decks on here and the ones that are doing well are playing 3. So I have effectively increased the amount of win conditions in the deck to more than usual. It is this reasoning that I think that Counterbalance is the better card to cut because Ponder is a card that directly helps Mentor.
So the modifications I see so far are:
-1 Counterbalance
+1 Counterspell
Maybe -3 Preordain
Maybe +3 Portent
Counterbalance is not the powerhouse it used to be. It's more of a hymn (randomly counters a spell or two) that sometimes turn into chalice (if you ponder and leave a onedrop on top) or counterspell (with brainstorm). Counterbalance in multiple are pretty bad however, only possibly shining when you have fetches or predicts.
I do however believe that miracle should aim to be rather proactive, which both mentor, CB and jace is. Another card that is proactive is back to basics. If you dont run red you can maindeck it (and make some money off your fourth tundra)
I have been testing this deck a little back again.
No chance in modern meta without main deck serious land hate.
2 Blood Moon and many basics with no WW spells. Here is he reason why it is completely out of every top 8
Other decks have super card advantage (be it real, Hymn and Command or Virtual like Chalice and Ensnaring Bridge) while we only have mediocre Predict and Jace which dies to REBs which is played by 80% of the format.
No real chance without maindeck Blood Moon in my opinion.. that plus Terminus/K.Return can close matches quite fast
I played Miracles last sunday and become 7th with 4-2
//Lands
4 Flooded Strand
1 Glacial Fortress
5 Island
1 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
2 Tundra
//Spells
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterbalance
2 Counterspell
1 Entreat the Angels
4 Force of Will
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Ponder
3 Portent
3 Predict
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
3 Terminus
1 Unexpectedly Absent
//Creatures
3 Monastery Mentor
3 Snapcaster Mage
//Sideboard
SB: 2 Back to Basics
SB: 1 Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Council's Judgment
SB: 2 Disenchant
SB: 1 Supreme Verdict
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Leyline of Sanctity
1. Round: 2-0 Mirror; with a red difference. Won the value game and had better answers along. With one Mentor more and different boarding plan I could win.
2. Round: 2-1 Maverick; with 3 Planeswalkers a pretty hard match. Lost one against Gideon and Elspeth. The other games I had good answers while back to basics does its thing.
3. Round: Steel Stompy 1-2; against the master of luck. lost one game against 3 karn scion of urza and the other one I had nothing although he didn't have chalice.
4. Round: MUD 2-1; lost against Ugin one game. The other ones I won with Back to basics and unexpectedly absent, creating time walks.
5. Round: Dredge 2-1; dredge wins game 1 nothing to say. Game 2 he can't remoove containment priest. Game 3 the deck lost against itself.
6. Round: Elves 1-2; Game 1 I won on 1 life after Createrhoof attack I chain cantrips and counter attack for 15 with mentor. Game 2&3 I was always one turn to slow. Terminus stucked on my hand and couldn't setup in time.
The leyline was a last minute include because nobody had stony silence nor null rod.
Ding ding ding :laugh:
Shaman is now out the format and graveyard based decks (which are basically combo) will now be popular back again.
4color decks are definitely dropping green making Counterbalance better then ever. Now everyone will have to rely on lands in order to cast spells making Blood Moon as good as ever.
Time to sleeve back control to me:cool:
No deathrite no probe, we need do some changes in the 75.
Probably moat would be good in the side, cut verdict suprem.
maybe add 3th cs?
I have a event upcoming at sunday. After Deathrite Shaman I expect: Show and Tell, Reanimator (mostly ub), RUG Delver (in place of grixis), Death and Taxes, Turbo Dephts, Lands, Stompy and Miracles; overall a pretty big mix. Since I own no volcanic islands at all and won't buy them, I'm back on UWb.
Deck: Dark Miracles
//Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
1 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
2 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
//Spells
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterbalance
1 Entreat the Angels
4 Force of Will
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Ponder
3 Predict
3 Preordain
2 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Terminus
1 Unexpectedly Absent
//Creatures
3 Monastery Mentor
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
//Sideboard
1 Containment Priest
2 Disenchant
2 Flusterstorm
1 Notion Thief
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
show more
I cut the following main:
Counterspell for Spell Pierce. Counterspell is rather slow and I want to be more mana efficent espacially against the combo decks. Fighting on the stack is way more easy with a one mana counter instead of the double blue.
Teferi for Clique. Teferi or the third Jace are slow to and against half the decks bad. Vendilion Clique is a nice way to hit combo a bit and pressure them.
Sideboard:
3 Thoughtseize against the Combo and the mirror or other upcoming control decks; probably BUG or Grixis control.
2 Zealous Persecution against DnT. They play Wasteland but a 2 mana board wipe is probably too good. I'm unsure on this choice. Maybe I cut them for Back to Basics (against stompy and lands) and Supreme Verdict.
Notion Thief. My old signature card from my true origin; Esper Deathblade. A important piece against the mirror which I will face for sure. Against the slower Show and Tell to steal their cantrips. Show and Tell is mostly defeated after hitting Brainstorm.
I feel pretty comfortable with this list expect the Persecution. It's a good card but I need propably Back to Basics against Stompy.
In a esper construction you must find a slot for Lim-dul's vault. It can find the terminus or Entreat when you need. With counterbalance is a counterspell and you could play again with Snapcaster.
Remember: Vs combo you need find hate cards quickly and LDV do It.
Lim Duls vault is quite interesting. What would you cut ? I would cut Vendilion Clique and one Predict for 2 LDV.
What are your thoughts on Zealous Persecution? With Vault I wouldn't need it because I can set up terminus way more easy.
I will try something like this if show and tell, reanimator ir dark depths see a lot of play:
3 vendilion clique
3 Snapcaster mage
1 Entreat the angels
1 Flusterstorm
3 Spell pierce
2 portent
3 Lim duls vault
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Fow
4 Terminus
4 Swords to plowshares
1 Council judgement
1 Engineered explosives
3 Jace the mind sculptor
2 karakas
2 underground sea
3 tundra
4 Island
2 plains
4 Flooded strand
2 polluted delta
2 disenchant
1 flusterstorm
1 council judgement
1 hydroblast
1 beb
2 surgical extraction
2 nihil spellbomb
2 B2b
2 containment priest
1 supreme verdict
If combo dominates predict is a bad card and i don't like CB but i might try it if miracles dominate
Lim Duls Vault sounds pretty horrid honestly, it's slow and card disadvantage. Falls into the too cute category for me.
Swan Song is to be reconsidered. It counters Reanimate SnT Sneak Attack and Counterbalance
A couple of SB slots can totally be it
Agree with @Whitefaces on this one. Personal Tutor and not ruining a manabase sounds better, yet is still unplayable. The other [better] option would be playing UW Helm combo, maintaining solid mana, and using E. Tutor to counter spells and threaten a win next turn - this has the downside of being a generally worse deck vs the field and terrible vs miracles. Most of the things you're describing with LDV is pretty much covered by a card like Dimir Charm, if you really want to go Esper @Neo900 and @atopebenidorm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitefaces
LDV is a enlightened tutor + personal tutor at instant speed. Yes It need testing but i don't think was a horrid idea. And baleful strix could be a good answer vs eldrazi or infect instead vendilion clique.
We need check the metagame before build the deck
Temur and Sultai aggro are coming back! Nimble Moongose, long time no see you
Sleeve those Engineered Explosives..
I think you're severely underestimating how bad card disadvantage cards are. Look at their floors as well as the ceilings.Quote:
Originally Posted by atopebenidorm
Hey @whitefaces do u think this qualifies as a valid list to test the new metagame
also do u have a stock list for the new meta
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1176038#paper
That's actually my list from before, Anuraag was just trying it out that Challenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicmarvin
I have some ideas but need to play a bit first and see what others are playing too, but it's something close to what Angelo Cadei has been playing already.
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=27885&iddeck=225453
yes, i know that this is close to your list and that from cadei
I really like the explosives main.
Also the mentors in the side i think are good when we dont know what well face.
Maybe switch one counterspell in the main for a fourth flusterstorm.
Oh OK. In that case I don't have anything to share just yet, some ideas but I need to play them and see what everyone else is doing first. But it has multiple EEs and Flusters main in anticipation of Canadian and combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicmarvin
i just recognized that the list from cadei and yours played by anzid is different in that it has 3 mentor instead of 2xsearch and entreat in main.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitefaces
Will u drop the entreat and searches too in the new meta.
I think both are a wonderfoul way to go over the top vs control, and mentors are good in sb for first.
Azcanta in a Wasteland meta? 4 Terminus and 4 Mentors if you drop red (but I wouldn’t for now)
can someone pm me the discord link for the miracles ? I had it but accidentally deleted it and I have a reignited desire for legacy again after the updated br list.
Couple new trends in the brave new meta.
1. With the rise of Wasteland decks, Search for Azcanta doesn't seem great.
2. With the number of Mongoose on the rise as well as the rising popularity of Stoneforge decks, Vendilion Clique appears to be more attractive than ever.
3. 3 CB or 2 CB? Start to see 3 CB lists again.
I agree on all
Clique
No Azcanta (never liked it by the way)
And the drop of green will make CB much better
I would go as cantrip-y as possible and 4 Mentor and Thing in the Ice in the SB for the DnT matchup
In the next metà of Stifle Wasteland and Taxes Jace looks way too slow. Has someone considered Sylvan Library with Counterbalance? Card advantage and free top deck manipulation
What else can green give us?
1. Agree. While Azcanta is incredible in the mirror too and I think we can expect a bunch of those, it's relegated to the SB at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
2. Also agree, not sure about playing them MD, but assuming Strix and Kommand will dip in play it's a great card in more than just combo matchups again.
3. I think 3, it's such a house vs RUG.
I don't think you want to move into another colour when RUG is everywhere...you can side the Jaces out, it's still the best thing to be doing vs most other matchups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Yup Grixis is going to be everywhere and so is REB
Jace feels obsolete even though great.
I still think 4 Mentor +4 Predict will be great in next meta of discards bolts and Stoneforge Mystic
Edit: even the mother of every tempo player is playing back 4 Daze and 3 Pierce as well as 4 Stifle.
Jace is a out imho 4 Mentor and 4 Snapcaster all the way. Also 2xEE in the 75 for Nimble Mongoose
Played some miracle in this new meta. I put together a rather proactive list: 4 mentors, 3 CB, 3 jace (but no predicts), and 2 spell pierces to instead of counterspells.
I liked the list pretty much, with MD mentors you can close out games pretty fast and don't rely on predicts as much. I did play a EE main which was a great allround answer.
I played against
Canadian, felt pretty good with this proactive list
Team america without shaman, felt good
DnT, felt good
Food chain, bad as usual
Maybe 4 mentors is one too many. I think i will replace one with another EE or CJ
Pierce was good: it won counterwars, it countered vials, hymns, food chain. It also felt good post board as many board in enchantments or planeswalkers which it hits. It also fills the gap of counterbalance, countering the big mana haymakers while Cb counters the low cmc cards. Needless to say it's pretty bad in the late game but running mentors makes you a bit faster.
LOL. Try playing online. I've played no less than 2 mirrors in every league I've played, and I've been doing horribly. I revisited the primer and some articles and changed the list. First mirror went great. Worked my opponent when we both had CB out, made a small Entreat that they had to overexhaust to protect their Jace. I killed it with CJ anyway, and then a few turns later I set up the second Entreat with a Terminus underneath. Won game 2 pretty handily too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Round 2 I got stomped by UR Delver. Beat Soldier Stompy round 3, partially because he played a greedy Armageddon game 2 and locked himself out while I cantripped out of it.
Round 4 was miserable. I played the mirror and played against 3 Fluster, 2 CS, Pyroblast, Jace, Teferi in the main. Obviously I lost this match. At one point their lands were 2 Tundra, 2 Volc, 3 Islands. I felt really bad not having the Back to Basics there. Round 5 I lost to Tezzerator to bad math game 1 and 3x Chalice game 2. Should've cast Surgical on the first Chalice after I blew it up but I didn't.
Last time I played against Temur was 3 leagues ago. I played 5 leagues this week and only faced it 3 times; two of them were a league where I was paired against the same player back to back.
I also don't feel like I'm really getting ahead when I have Azcanta in the mirror. Seems like every time I stick it, my opponent just untaps and lands Jace.
Tested a proactive list featuring 4 mentors, 3 CB, 3 jace and 2 spell pierces. I like to have cards that preassures the opponent and mentors 'n balance are such cards. Not sure 3 CB nor 4 mentors is correct though as they are bad in multiples. I might switch two for back to basics and/or maindeck EE/CJ.
Tested versus
RUG, felt good - so much easier with mentor aka the moat
BUG delver, felt easy too - is this even a deck now?
Death n taxes, felt pretty good. CB was so so but pierce and mentors were strong.
Food chain, still miserable even without shaman trix
hey all, I've been testing a UW build and have been having a few good games.
3 Snapcaster mage
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Jace the mind sculptor
3 Counterbalance
4 Swords to plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of will
4 terminus
2 portent
2 predict
2 spell pierce
2 counterspell
1 Council's judgement
1 entreat the angels
1 unexpectedly absent
4 flooded strand
3 scalding tarn
2 arid mesa
6 island
3 plains
2 tundra
SB
1 pithing needle
2 flusterstorm
2 surgical extraction
1 containment priest
2 disenchant
1 ethersworn canonist
1 stony silence
2 monastery mentor
1 back to basics
2 leyline of sanctity
I got a mixed game with storm and show and tell even in games 2 and 3, and can't beat goblins for the life of me. any tips?