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What about:
22 Lands
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Top
3 Standstill
4 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
+2/3 slots (EE, Needle, Daze?)
26
4 Dreadnought
4 Dark Confidant
2 Trinket Mage
10
With the Missteps, the deck just got THAT much tighter. Ugh. I don't even have Jaces in yet...
-Matt
nice list!
I was actually thinking, could torpor orb + academy ruins in board perhaps be a viable SB strategy vs controll? im thinking in terms of longevity gentlemen, who cares if they counter nought?
Frankly, I casted Jace like twice in 30 testing matches. And it was either win more or last resource before losing. I think I still want it as an added bonus, and moreover Jace under Standstill is unreal if you menage to set it. Meh, at least pitches to Fow...Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
I also think it can be debated whether or not jace is an include in dreadstill. TBH, jace doesnt "really" fit dreadstill as a mid-range deck at the farthest. I can totally see why peacekeeper splash runs jace though.
Question is, what instead of jace? perhaps 2 counterspells? they pretty much fill the "controll" role both, while counterspell is a bit more flexible and comes earlier...
Spell Snare or Counterspell. I would prefer Spell Snare though, as during your first 5 turns you will probably not have enough mana open to Counterspell, as this deck should try to set a nice board position (through Top, Balance if you play it, Confidant, Nought etc...) in the first turns. We can't sit on our Counterspell leaving mana untapped if we could have cast Top + mana open to Stifle / check Top eot ( for example).Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackehehe
If I were to play 4 Standstill I would actually be inclined to increase the number of Tops in the deck, not decrease the number. Being able to land Top before Standstill is quite good so we can better operate under Standstill than our opponent. And Top also allows us to dig for an answer to their board position which turns on the Standstill in our hand, or alternatively allows us to look for a Standstill before they can build a board position.Quote:
Originally Posted by kiblast
I have to say that I came to the same conclusion in the last testing sessions, leading me to try 4 MM, 3 Tops and 3 Standstill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico Suave
My real question is, if I'm running the Peacekeeper splash, it means I'll need to run Jaces, meaning I have no Trinket Mage package nor counters beyond MM and Force.
What should I do? Peacekeeper/Jace is the answer to many different angles of assault (Merfolk, Moat, Emrakul) but I just don't have the room, I think. If I drop Peacekeepers, I lose the ability of a good edge against those decks, but I gain 5 slots total. What should I do?
-Matt
Apparently 2 decks playing 1-off noughts are top 8'ingl @ Boston.
You can run 3/3 Nought/Confidant to fit in a couple Jace. Take out the Trickbind and run 2 Daze, EE and Needle in the flex slots. Daze is good because you need more CMC2 for CB flips. It's also immune to MM ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Two "stifle nought" decks in Top 8 at SCG Boston today:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=38061
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=38062
Both only one nought and no standstill though, so not really Dreadstill, just posting it up anyways.
Thanks, Pander!
Also, I'm not in the camp of playing the miser's Dreadnought. I'm pretty sure that's not the way the game should be played, especially with this deck.
Also, anyone think the art on Mental Misstep is garbage for a card that'll be this popular? Ugh.
-Matt
They should have used the art of Corrupted Conscience for Mental Misstep. Now that would have been so sick!Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
I was thinking something along the lines of:
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
3 Tundra/2 Tundra 1 Plains
3 Island
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Standstill
4 Mental Misstep
4 Stifle
3 Counterbalance
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Trickbind
1 Daze
2 Jace, TMS
2 Trinket Mage
3 Dark Confidant
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
---------
3 Spell Pierce
3 Peacekeeper
2 Perish
1 EE/Crypt
1 Spellbomb
1 Crypt
1 Needle
3 Swords to Plowshares
The deck has 11 2-drops, 19 1-drops, 2 3-drops, 2 2-drops, 4 5-drops, so the CB curve is decent. Thoughts?
-Matt
A decent CB curve has at least 12 cc2 and 5-6 cc3, but in Dreadstill this cannot happen...instead of focusing on Standstill, I think that with Mental Misstep the deck can now play only like a tempo deck with several B-plans.
Having the capacity to protect our creatures via 2 pv and also via CB made me think on a more aggro-tempo shell that can quickly turn in a aggro-control shell. We have so many bombs to play on T2 (DArk Confidant/Tarmogoyf/Stiflenought/Counterbalance) and we are able to protect them in the best possible way (Daze/FoW/MM and Balance for creatures) that we can either enter a soft lock, an overwhelming aggro mode which gives us victory in 2 turns or a CA mode well protected.
With 16 cc2 spells, an active CB+top will usually prevent any cc2 or cc1 card from entering the game.
Here's the list I'm testing:
4 Wasteland
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic
2 Island
7 fetch
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Mental Misstep
4 Daze
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
3 Sensei’s Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
1 Jace the Mind Sculptor
I'm reasoning thinking to tempo shells, so that's why I included Tarmo for additional strong beating if we don't see a fast Dreadnought; however, if it's prove not to be worthy, the shell can be modified cutting Goyfs and maybe adding some cc3 drops (Trinket Mages + some tools, or Vendillions) to strenghten the side-control strategy. I don't believe at all that Standstill must be played in the deck, we already have a concrete card advantage engine and a virtual card advantage engine which both don't cause tempo loss.
What do you guys think of these single Nought lists?Quote:
Originally Posted by PanderAlexander
Morgothian, I agree with you regarding the Top flips curve. I think that if we really want Countertop in, this means that a classic Dreadstill build (which plays too much 1 cc and is low on cc2 and 3) should either play 4 cc2 removals (like GftT or Smother) or play Standstills. Otherwise a suboptimal cc curve under Countertop means that we are not using it at its full potential, and therefore is better not to run it. For example a list like:Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgothian
// Lands
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [MPR] Wasteland
2 [US] Island
3 [R] Underground Sea
3 [R] Tundra
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ALA] Plains
1 [ARE] Swamp
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
// Creatures
3 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
3 [FD] Trinket Mage
1 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
// Spells
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [SC] Stifle
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [IA] Brainstorm
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [MBS] Go for the Throat
1 [TSP] Trickbind
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [TE] Perish
SB: 2 [6E] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 2 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [A] Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 1 [R] Energy Flux
SB: 3 [UL] Engineered Plague
Has a nice 17 1cc / 12 2 cc / 4 3cc curve. This way Countertop is used pretty good. Anyway this is only a momentary build, as when Misstep will be printed, I'll probably just cut Counterbalance for Standstills and run manlands...
You've got 1 extra card in the maindeck.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
I'd do this
-1 Mental Misstep (or Needle if you absolutely have to run 4 MM)
-1 Trickbind
+1 Daze
-1 Polluted Delta
-1 Tundra
+1 Wasteland
+1 Mishra's Factory
Trickbind is the weakest card in the deck. Just cut it and don't look back.
I would play 3 MM, 2 Daze just to keep some counter variety. Daze is still an insane counter and I wouldn't play less than 2. It works great with the LD strategy and it's immune to MM! (I said it again)
Also, you're only playing 2 non-blue cards maindeck, so I see no reason not to play a full set of Factories and Wastelands. At least play 4 factories. They are that good. 6 fetches has always worked for me.
I play the basic plains in the board.
What about mashing up the two lists with grixis colored wizards?
1x Basilisk Collar
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Phyrexian Dreadnought
4x Grim Lavamancer
4x Dark Confidant
3x Trinket Mage
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4x Brainstorm
4x Stifle
3x Spell Snare
3x Daze
4x Force of Will
4x Wasteland
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Underground Sea
3x Volcanic Island
2x Island
1x Swamp
1x Mountain
1x Academy Ruins
Sideboard
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Meekstone
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Pithing Needle
4x Pyroblast
3x Perish
4x Engineered Plague
You've got 43 one and zero drops for Bob to draw, plenty of free counters and lots of lategame action, as well as a variety of soft locks like lavamancer/collar or e.e./ruins and a full mana denial suite with daze/stifle/wasteland. Sorry, I know I don't normally post in this thread or play this type of deck, but after I looked at those two decks next to each other it just seemed like they were screaming to be combined.
Hate to say it, but I told you so. I've been advocating the Ubw list without Standstill list for awhile now, but AJs Ur version is very interesting. Grixis Wizards is next on my list ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by PanderAlexander
Seriously though, we all love to draw cards, but Fish is the most popular deck in the format, our worst matchup, and it abuses Standstill better then any other deck. The Factories also put unneeded presure an an otherwise stable manabase. Maybe Mental Mishap will help tilt things back toward Standstill, we shall see how the metagame shapes out.
Standstill is a very strong card. Is it poor against Merfolk? Sure I guess. Does it dominate black-based aggro-control decks? Yes.
Does it surprise me that one of those players at Boston lost to black-based aggro-control, considering his deck did not include Standstill? Not really.
Be careful when you cut Standstill. You might be trying to improve your Merfolk match at the expense of every other match...