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I have tried exploration in my GW build with Oracle of Mul Daya and courser of Kruphix and past turn 2 it's usually very underwhelming. If you can go no disruption into turn 2 primeval titan it is sweet otherwise it's not much better than running explore which I tend to stick to since late game it is at least a cantrip to get a little deeper into your deck.
He is fantastics against Shardless and Miracles. I really enjoy him with Veteran Explorer, Oracle of Mul Daya, Gitrog Monster and Primeval Titan. Not to mention Crop Rotation, Knight of the Reliquary, and even Crucible of Worlds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lormador
Whelp played in the Columbus SCG Legacy Classic. Finished 9th 5-2 overall...just missed top 8 was kind of a bummer. Posted week or so ago changes I made from the general core.
My deck list:
Lands (27)
4 x Misty Rainforest
2 x Polluted Delta
3 x Tropical island
1 x Island
1 x Forest
1 x Cavern of Souls
1 x Glacial Chasm
1 x Tabernacle
1 x Bojuka Bog
1 x Karakas
1 x Eye of Ugin
4 x Cloudpost
4 x Glimmerpost
2 x Vesuva
Creatures (7)
1 x Emrakul
1 x New Emrakul
1 x Nulamog
4 x PrimeTime
Spells
4 x SDT
4 x Repeal
4 x Brainstorm
4 x Crop Rotation
4 x Show n Tell
2 x Ugin
2 x EE
2 x Candelabra of Tawnos
SB:
4 x Surgical Extraction
2 x FoW
2 x Flusterstorm
2 x Swag Song (May go to 4 Flusters)
2 x Krosen Grip
2 x Pithing Needle
1 x Nephalia Academy
Dice rolls...not good today rolled 1 of the 7 games i won for me just below average.
Matches:
Lands 1-1...won 2-0 and lost 0-2 (1st time there) yep there was a lost to a bye match. no pithing MB was a good test. Didn't need it. SB I brought them in. But with 4 repeals and bog MB...you can slow them enough to do what you need. Brought needle in from SB game 2. Lands loss game I was on draw to play and no lands...mulli then get only 1 to start and didn't see another that game. Next game...no lands, mulli and get my only 2 vesuva to start as my lands. Pretty awful...I'll do the odds for that with 27 MB not likely. Why i upped from 25 when played before I refuse to loose to non land drops in land deck. Won't increase from 27, odds to happen again very low. Die to a 20/20 when have 2 repeals and 2 crops sitting in your hand is just ridiculous. Other game was a joke as always is. Repeal again is uber good.
U/R delver 1-0...won 2-0. Crop rotate instant to cavern crushed Price of prog. Repeal and EE to stabilize EE. The more burn heavy delvers imo are harder than grins type so was happy. Game 2 i dropped to 1 life and scratched back. Only happened from 2 shuffles in a row to top. upping to 6 fetches played huge here.
Storm 1-0...won 2-0. Bog MB with crop rotation crushed him game 1. glimmers getting life to 26+ to make 13 minimum storm triggers and game went long enough. Game 2 the nehalia came in. FoW 1st discard. Had SnT and Emrakul in hand. Next turn...another d/c and crop rotated for Neph academy. It won me the game. Was glad got to test it out. Still needs more. But saved me loosing the combo to finish game. Surgical extraction played big.
Dredge 1-0...won 2-0. Again crop rotation is a life savior here. Get bog. He had a very good turn 1 and I was on draw. Crop rotated for bog. So got rid of like 1/3 his deck and multi dredges. Had 3 creatures out. Next turn SDT found a crop and got tabernacle. GG. Next game SB comes in. 4 surgical extractions are huge.
Omnishow 1-1...yep drew storm and omnishow x 2 for 3 of my 7 games. Lovely. Lost 1-2 and won 2-1. The 1-2 I would of won if my swag song was a fluster. Flustered one SnT but swag got Forced on 2nd. It was sad. Considered running 4 Flusters and prob only change I will make in the deck. The new Emrakual played well here. Almost hard casted him, which against that deck would usually be quite good. laid him down on a SnT (he cast...SB out games 2 and 3). No omni...he dropped emrakul. I had 2 crops in hand. Had them all day upping to 4 with 6 fetches. Made deck so consistent. Got to know how to play around them with counters. Led him with a brainstorm while on stack. He was tapped out. He forced thinking fluster since saw it already. No counter on crop got karakas and new emry prot instants. GG 2 turns later. Still not sold on him though. Another card up in the air, will need to see the groups thoughts in next few month on him.
Overall, a very good day. Been playing 7-8 months and learned a few more tricks with the deck. New updates from old made deck flow so much better and handled ago much better. SB all combo and graveyard hate. Still never play tested against miracles in tourney in 7-8 months. Used the SDT repeal move to draw 2 cards and look at top 3 afterwards 3 times in the tourney. If you don't know what I'm talking about please look it up. Repeals imo is one of the best cards in the deck and crop 2nd. Repeals is great D, card advantage, ridiculous card advantage with SDT, and with 2 candles make turn 3-4 ugins very possible.
Any advice please hit me up. I need more practice with omnishow...today def helped. 3 grips maybe in the future as well and 4 flusters would of made 6-1 even with bad draws on land match and instant top 8...
Best
I've been rocking your list on xmage and it's awesome! Really like it. It's a lot of fun and very versatile. Without Pithing needles I do have trouble beating death and taxes, what's your experience with the matchup?Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshrac82
Regarding Tireless Tracker, I want to play this card very much but I'm just not sure what role it should have. Jarvis Yu, in his Lands episode of Legacy's Allure, explains that this card is primarily intended primarily for Rest In Peace decks that are likely to board out (or reduce) removal, such as the Counterbalance decks that challenge Lands.
As we needn't fear any RIP deck and welcome Miracles matchups, I wonder whether the card is necessary.
I think my next test will be to switch out Warping Wail (as much as I love it) for DRS. Deathrite was incorporated quickly, did well, and was suddenly dropped on a basis that is not clear to me personally. Maybe it is, in fact, good enough. Or maybe I'll simply confirm that Rock was right in the first place.
The curse of my life is never being able to leave well enough alone with a list, I have to experiment (even with known failures) in order to come to the vanilla one on my own.
In 12 post I don't believe trackers role to be beating rest in peace. However trackers role in 12 post is to provide an early threst that can benefit from what we want to do, play lands, a lot if them. Between cards like crop rotation, primeval titan, map to find more land we should be able to grind out most any match with it. Even against miracles tracker is likely fine as a way to have additional threats early that they need to answer rather than only relying on only our titans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lormador
I saw your list on SCG. Well done, sorry for the salty 9th on breakers.Quote:
Originally Posted by HomicidalRambo
FYI SCG listed you playing only 3 cloudposts, which I'm glad was a mistake on their part.
Did you have any sweet victories with Mindrakul? Did you ever had any situations where you chose to search for it over Nulamog?
Nephalia Academy seems like an awesome addition if your planning to go with a spell based anti-combo suite.
Nice, it took some time but more and more people come around to my list! :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hencules
In my personal experience D&T is still a very good matchup - you can lose, and if you do, it often doesn't look close at all, but i'm beating it more often than not (my record now is 25-8). That said, pretty much everybody else who tested my list has problems with D&T.
The key to win this is usually to make a lot of landdrops, so their mana denial is less effective. Sticking an Oracle is the best way to do that (i would play any cheaper creature as bait just to try to stick an Oracle), a Tracker can help too, and if you resolve a Titan it will probably be enough. I like to keep very landheavy hands against D&T, i'd rather have 6 lands than 2 lands. That can go wrong if they just have a very aggressive hand, but we do have some removal (EE is great, Warping Wail has a lot of targets, postboard we have even more options).
Somewhere in this thread i read that D&T was a matchup where your Eldrazi don't matter and just the Titan wins the game. That's not true - the Titan wins the game, but just by giving you enough mana to finally resolve your Eldrazi. I played 4 matches where i boarded out my Eldrazi to test that, and i lost all 4 of them. The Eldrazi are not great in your hand, because it takes so long to cast them, but in this matchup you actually need them to win the game. The board gets usually very cluttered on their side, and they have a lot of ways to defend against your midrange creatures or Marit Lage (very useless here, don't try it unless you absolutely have to, and always board out the Depths), while you can't defend yourself forever against their evasion creatures.
Regarding Tireless Tracker and Lands: I played a lot against Lands lately (and won every match), they always board in Tireless Tracker against me. I actually lost one game to lands just because of their Tracker, it's a very scary card to face. And in the Lands thread they are at least discussing the option to board it in every single time, and some are going up to 4 copies in the board. From the other side of things, whenever i faced a Tracker, against Lands, NicFit or even in the mirror, if you can't kill it, it just forces you to end the game as fast as possible, otherwise you won't come back.
Just try that card online or wherever you playtest before you make a plan where you want it (and for that purpose, i would really put it in the maindeck, even if you don't plan to do that in your final list). Knowing what a card does and actually seeing it in action are two different things. In my opinion it is good in every single matchup, sometimes as a card drawing engine and big blocker (against fair decks mostly), sometimes as a fast beater (3 hits are often enough, that can be relevant when you want a fast clock for example against combo). And if it dies right away, it's still not that bad, because you will usually have 1-2 clues left over. (Just as you don't mind that much if a Titan dies right away - 1-2 clues are not the same as 2 lands, but Tracker is much easier to cast.) Don't think "if they kill it, it's bad", it's rather "if they don't kill it, they probably lose, and if they kill it, it's still a 2 for 1".
About trying new cards: I finally decided to give Grapple with the Past a try in my deck, and so far i like it. One major issue with the deck is the consistency, some draws just don't work at all, and Grapple should help with that a lot. Not sure what i want to cut for it, but i probably want 2-3 copies in the deck.
Also decided to try out Moment's Peace in the board (for Engineered Plague, that let me down a few times in a row), that did some work too and might stay.
My list is always changing, just the core remains the same. So if anybody trying my list has an idea to improve something, i'm open to suggestions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
Nephalia Academy played well. SB storm is very heavy d/c and how I usually loose to them. It saved me in game 2 on storm by not letting him dump my show n tell. He casted duress turn 2, and I crop rotated for it. Game chging play. I would of had no hand after the 6 times he kept d/c just to prevent 6 turns of emrakul being showed in. Which still happened. Screwed his mana enough to prevent enough storm triggers to kill me. Def most likely will stay. Wasn't sold with swag. Nice if get a moon deck for counters...but fluster seems better. May go to 4 flusters or 3 flusters and 3 FoW for my 6 counters.
Mindrakul was neat and def good. Maindeck worthy...I need to test it more. The protection from instants is better than expected. Beat show deck 2 games in a row. He casted show and I laid it down. He couldn't bounce it. It is there only defense to bridges etc. Old emrakul prot colors I get it, but I replaced him for new kozilek. Unlike, kozilek he is a flying trample 13/13 with prot from instants. Gries' worst nightmare. He couldn't attack and I could trample over. It was very nice. If I laid new kozilek would of lost to him. So he benefited me nicely there. For sweet play. Got him over ula during other Omni show match-up and he countered him but his cast trigger resolved. His turn casted show n tell to use his own force and exile Omni. Was sweet. He had for lands a CoT, ancient tomb, and island. If cast ulamog I would of exiled the blue and other land. If he drew a blue his show was cmon out with his 2 colorless producing land and Omni on the table. He didn't have a great card to play with Omni. So that was neat I felt, but not game changing. Needs more testing though. I still like it over the new kozilkek. If use for him, I think better. Nulamog gets the nod imo right now. Plat emp is gone for me way to easy to bounce or destroy since artifact...So for now he takes spot 3 in my deck list for big guns. Hope that helps.
I'm enjoying it so thanks :). In my limited testing it seems that getting Knight to stick has more impact than getting a tracker to stick. In what type of situations do you prefer one over the other?Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshrac82
Chasm has been kind of the stick in the spokes card when I play it. It seems to only really work well against Elves and burn. When used against delver, i end up dying anyways. I ended up putting it into my SB because of this and I run Dark Depths/ Thespian's Stage instead. Has a bit better pairing against burn and elves and also can be dirty against delver since they typically are only running 1-2 vapor snag. You could also go to the Bant version again and remove it completely and run 4 terminus MB that will keep things under control except against burn. But then you just run 4 Leylines in SB and Platinum Emperion.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube
Knight is better if it sticks in most situations, but does nothing if it doesn't stick, while Tracker should still bring some clues along (usually play it before your landdrop). So when i don't expect it to stick and just want to get a little bit ahead, i like Tracker more. And in some situations you just don't have the lands to find a win with Knight, you need to get ahead on cards instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hencules
Some examples:
1. Against D&T. Lets say you have 5 lands, 2 of them forests and no cloudposts, they have 2 ports. If you turn your Forests into Cloudposts, they will just port them down, you win nothing. If you play a Tracker instead, the clues you get can ensure you are hitting your landdrop every turn, and eventually you will have too much to port it all down. (And if they StP it, Tracker is better too if you had a landdrop left after you played it.)
2. Against Blood Moon. Knight is pretty much useless, Tracker allows you to make landdrops and/or find answers to Blood Moon (well, RecSage could answer the Blood Moon right away, so lets say you're up against Magus instead).
3. Against Miracles, they have some cards in hand, not used any removal so far. There is no way any creature you play will stick. Just get a Tracker and make a landdrop, a fetchland would be nice to get 2 clues out of it.
Generally, the more removal you expect and the more time you have, the better Tracker gets compared to Knight. Still, 3/4 times i get Knight over Tracker. The reason i still play only 2 Knights, and in some lists up to 3 Trackers, is that sometimes Knight is a little hard to cast on curve. I usually don't keep hands without green mana, but i have to keep a lot of hands without the mana to hardcast Knight. I found i want exactly one backup Knight, in case the first one dies. I rarely lose the second one too, and if i do there are usually better options than to go for a third Knight, so going with just 2 to minimize the situations with an uncastable Knight in hand seems ideal.
Thanks for inspiring me to play repeal again. The list is all business i like it. probably no point asking why you don't like trinket :laugh: Though, i feel i would be more comfortable with another SnT target over ugin.Quote:
Originally Posted by HomicidalRambo
Ugin with candle/repeal build has been huge for me. He is fairly easy to cast and crushes so many decks...grixis, shardless, delver, miracles, elves, to name a few just scoop once he is out and goes off (All heavy in meta currently). I do agree the extra show n tell target would increase my 'plan B' chances, but I only show n tell the eldrazi to decks that I know die in 1-2 turns with them and have no way to beat it. My 4 shows are there only for the 4 titans. 1 game had eldrazi show n tell in hand and put eldrazi on top fetched a few times to find the titan. Decks that can deal with big guy out don't help us and their cast trigger is what we want. Tried 3 SnT and felt like I was always searching for it and why I play 4. This is why I don't mind running ugin...I'm always trying to show a titan. I care about the titan land drops to gain control of the game and take it from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechTactical
Trinket mage I haven't tested enough. Chump blocker is nice, but 4 repeals and 2 EE keep the little dudes away early if needed. Also, crop rotate for tabernacle crushes aggro decks early. So never missed a chump blocker. The tutor ability is nice, but its too slow imo. Legacy is just way to fast. I never felt like trinket mage had the power to keep up. Outside of a needle, its hard to play him turn 3/4 and then cast what you want. Sure it gets a candle, but then u get to wait till next turn to use it. At least how I always felt with it...and a lot times that turn never happened. I prefer to sit back and EoT everything or respond to plays they make and set up the titan show or titan cast...I may of played him too early so this could be my fault and don't deny this. I've tried many variations. You have to play what fits you. In general, this is not an aggro deck...we all know this. My point is I feel playing him too quickly gimped me, and not playing him was a dead card in my hand. Ugin can be a dead card...but with 27 lands and 2 candles 1-2 turns is all it takes and dead card is a finishing card. Deck I play forces me to sit back and play more controlling, which is how it's supposed to be played. I find it amazing how one deck can have so many different variations. Why such a fun deck to play. As I re-try other builds, maybe I'll play them more correctly. I don't deny build could be better with trinket mage...I could never get him to work though.
Trinket is definitely flexibility over power as his 3 mana cost is a gulp.
I do find him subtly useful when it comes to sideboard construction though. Take any given tricky deck to play against and put an artifact into the board for that matchup.... now you needn't board out the Trinkets against that deck. I appreciate him being a Stifle target that tempts the opponent before that killer Titan trigger goes on the stack, but that's a bit daft since I occasionally actually need that Mage trigger to resolve in order to stay alive.
Grats on your finish!Quote:
Originally Posted by HomicidalRambo
One little trick with OmniShow is utilizing triggers to your advantage. If you put in anything with an ETB trigger - Primeval Titan, Venser, Shaper Savant or Thought-Knot Seer to name a few - you end up with priority since you have a trigger. What this means is that you can immediately Krosan Grip your opponent's Omniscience before he or she has a chance to cast anything. The same thing applies with Sneak and Skill: if you have a trigger, you can answer their Sneak Attack before it can be activated.
I don't like to be the noob, but what kind of trigger did u have in mind for sneak attack? Obviously it would have to be a triggered ability not activated, since the priority never passes to me in the first place? Am i not seeing an elephant hiding in a strawberry bush?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotmaster
Great tip. Was unaware of that would of been a 2nd out in the game. I assumed they always had priority, but if I'm only when enter then that makes sense passes to me. So should be solid on match up now. Won't make same misplay twice. Makes Krosen grips that much better against it. More I play and tweak the deck better I get. Appreciate the tip.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotmaster
It's for any Show and Tell deck. If you put in something with an ETB trigger - like Venser, Primeval Titan, or Thought-Knot Seer - you end up with priority when your trigger goes on the stack. You can then do something like Krosan Grip a Sneak Attack or Omniscience before your opponent has a chance to active Sneak or cast any spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechTactical
Okay, i have to appologize again 4 the noobish question, but are you reffering to the opponent putting in a sneak attack off of his own SnT in an attempt to activate it that turn?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotmaster
I might be wrong about this, but I think this is incorrect. If your opponent is the active player (it is their turn), then they will have priority and can respond at instant speed to any triggers. So if they cast Show and Tell and put in a Sneak Attack while you put in something with a triggered ability, they can still activate the Sneak Attack before your triggers resolve and before you can cast Grip. But if they make the mistake of passing priority, then you can punish them and Grip their Sneak Attack in response to your triggers :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotmaster
Congrats on the finish! I like the focused structure of your list; lots of four-ofs plus duplicates of the variable non-creature, non-land inclusions (Ugin, EE, Candles). Like someone before me said, your deck seems all about business.Quote:
Originally Posted by HomicidalRambo
One thing that I overlooked when I first read your list was the absence of any Expedition Maps. Did you ever miss them at all? I have a love/hate relationship with Map. It always feels clunky and frequently appears to be the weakest card in the deck. But other times, it can guarantee powerful plays without the sacrifice risk of Crop Rotation: either grabbing Cavern and forcing Titan through, or getting Eye to close out the game. You didn't need them to be successful, so maybe I will venture a build without them.
Also, I support your decision to swap Swan Songs with more Flusterstorms, as I've always thought Fluster was the better of the one-mana counters. Song hits a wider variety of threats, but Fluster has a more unique effect and is more effective at its role as a counter. It's difficulty to be countered makes it special, plus it is a trump card against Storm win conditions.
First off, decent list!
Second, 6 fetches with 5 targets. Really need that much shuffling? Does it seem to help you more than take away from a useable land slot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomicidalRambo
I think you guys are forgetting the reason why you use Krosan Grip. It has Split Second so Sneak Attack activation and Omniscience ability doesn't work as long as Krosan Grip is in the stack. This is the other reason I like using Trickbind against Sneak Attack, locks out that activation ability for that turn. All of this would be correct if you were using something like Stifle or Disenchant. The priority would be passed to them and they can respond.Quote:
Originally Posted by into_play
Actually I think the original poster was correct in this case. We're talking specifically about the line Show and Tell --> Sneak Attack, activate (against K-grip).Quote:
Originally Posted by Skriger
In this situation the caster of Show and Tell is indeed the active player and is free to put abilities and spells on to the stack. It's similar to Dredge flipping Narcomeba and Cabal Therapy off of a Careful Study, and despite my having Swords to Plowshares in hand there's no chance to get rid of the Narco before it gets sacrificed to the Therapy if my opponent does the priority thing correctly.
The one trick I picked up from reading this mammoth thread was putting in a Glimmerpost (or Titan, or even Bojuka Bog) off of the SnT. This puts a trigger on the stack right off, and if I say "Glimmerpost Trigger" and opponent responds "OK" I get to answer "Krosan Grip on your Sneak Attack." This won't get the best players, but it might help in the Swiss.
It's absolutely effective against Omniscience + Emrakul/Enter the Infinite, giving us a chance to cast K-grip without the opponent getting priority with an empty stack during a main phase.
Went undefeated at my weekly legacy event with a variant of the 9th place Classic list from last week using this list:
// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [R] Forest (3)
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [ST] Island (1)
4 [A] Tropical Island
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 [EMN] Nephalia Academy
// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [EMN] Emrakul, the Promised End
1 [ZEN] Oracle of Mul Daya
// Spells
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [ME4] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [DDN] Repeal
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [MMA] Faerie Macabre
I miss having 4 show and tell, and the return to it feels extremely strong. I maindecked the neph academy since I loath rng hymns and the top-synergy is paramount. Neph academy means counters are worth holding onto again instead of hiding and then only having one answer or getting blown out by random split second cards. All in all, the deck felt extremely solid with this build. Much harder to play since needle and map are huge crutches and with good reason, but can be played around with optimal play, which this build requires.
Negative, my friend. You do get priority. The nonactive player gets priority whenever they have a spell or ability on the stack - including these ETB triggers I'm talking about - when the active player attempts to change the step, or when the opponent passes priority. This is why triggers are so vitally important against Show and Tell decks: especially against Omni, where otherwise they could just Cunning Wish for something like Trickbind. This way you don't have to worry about your opponent making a mistake: you can just pre-emptively take care of the problematic card.Quote:
Originally Posted by into_play
Well, I never knew that your own triggers would give you priority. For some reason I thought that the player whose turn it is always got priority. I feel dumb for the noobish understanding, but am much happier that the rules work out in our favor. Thanks for the clarification!Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotmaster
I believe the active player gets priority before you even if you put a trigger on the stack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotmaster
116.2a Triggered abilities can trigger at any time, including while a spell is being cast, an ability is being activated, or a spell or ability is resolving. (See rule 603, “Handling Triggered Abilities.”) However, nothing actually happens at the time an ability triggers. Each time a player would receive priority, each ability that has triggered but hasn’t yet been put on the stack is put on the stack. See rule 116.5.
This basically says that triggered abilities do not affect who receives priority. Rather, triggered abilities go onto the stack based on APNAP the next a player would receive priority.
Since the active player just finished casting the show and tell, he would receive priority based on:
116.3b The active player receives priority after a spell or ability (other than a mana ability) resolves.
Basically, this means that if the active player casts show and tell, puts in a sneak attack and you put in a glimmerpost (or other etb permanent), they get priority. In the process of getting priority, your glimmerpost trigger goes onto the stack. If they let you resolve the glimmerpost trigger, they implicitly pass priority and you have a chance to get them; otherwise, they can put a sneak trigger on the stack then pass priority.
This is what a both an OmniTell player and a judge explained to me in a match against that deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by somethingdotdotdot
I'm always surprised how bad legacy players are sometimes at understanding the rules, especially trigers and priorities, If an oponent casts show and tell and you put glimmerpost on the battlefield and they put a permanent they retain the piority and it's their choice if they will pass the priority and let you resolve your trigger or they will continue casting spells, activating abilities at instant speed ofcourse (sorcery spead would mean they would need to pass the priority) untill they finally pass the priority. So they could drop sneak attack off show and tell, you drop glimmerpost, your trigger goes on stack but you don't get priority and they Will have to eaither let your triger resolve by passing the priority (thereby endagering potnetially getting gripped) or they could chose to add (not resolve!) to the stack variety of instants/activated abilites (or trigered abilities inbetwen if they manage it somehow). Resolving these spells, activated/triggered abilites would then requiere passing priorities between each party. Once both parties pass priority without additional action inbetween the spell/ability will resolve.
:wink:
Hello again everyone
I wanted to share my super test-stage GR list along with some of my notes that I've been playing around with. This has mostly been just a thought project between my buddy and I to force a bunch of mechanics into 12post and abuse new Emrakul... it needs a lot of tweaking but we're getting together tomorrow to play around with it
As a disclaimer, neither of us are super great at brewing competitively
Lands (26):
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
4 Taiga
2 Grove of the Burnwillows (if these both come out, Glacial Chasm/4th Foothills or 2 Maze of Ith)
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Forest
1 Mountain
Creatures (11):
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Mina and Denn, Wildborn
4 Primeval Titan
3 Thought-Knot Seer (might drop all 3)
Spells (19):
4 Crop Rotation
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Ancient Stirring (4 if Oath is dropped)
2 Oath of Nissa
3 Stranglehold (these become 3 Ugin's Nexus if Oath is dropped)
2 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Punishing Fire (drop w/Grove for 2 GSZ)
Artifacts (5):
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Expedition Map
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Notes:
So as it stands right now, the deck is 63 cards.
I really want to run TKS, but wanting to do something and having it actually be a good decision aren't always the same thing, that immediately gets the deck to 60
The biggest change that I think can be made right off the bat is dropping the Grove of the Burnwillows/Punishing Fire combo. I honestly don't know how powerful this combo is in Legacy; I haven't seen it much myself but I know it exists and since the colors are GR, I wanted to try it out. If those 6 cards come out, I would add a 4th Fetch and Chasm along with 2 GSZ leaving space for 2 more cards in the deck
The second major-ish switcheroo could be dropping 2 Oath of Nissa and turning them into 2 Ancient Stirrings, then dropping Stranglehold for Ugin's Nexus.
A few things with this: I like Oath of Nissa as an easy dump into making Emmy smaller (currently running 6 card types + Eye of Ugin), it also fetches up creatures, lands and Ugin
However: It doesn't grab the vital combo piece needed to make Emrakul more fun, Stranglehold. Ancient Stirrings on the other hand, can grab Ugin's Nexus which effectively does the same thing, but is now semi-tutorable thanks to being colorless.
Bonfire of the Damned isn't a totally necessary card, but at times it could potentially just be game with Candelabra in play
I realize I'm trying to do a lot with the deck, so I would appreciate your guys' input on trimming some fat. Maybe this won't be Top 8ing any major tournaments, but in my opinion it has potential to be a lot of fun, and I know GR is something this group has been kicking around for a few months.
No need for a paragraph. Just reference 601.2h "Once the steps described in 601.2a–g are completed, the spell becomes cast. Any abilities that trigger when a spell is cast or put onto the stack trigger at this time. If the spell’s controller had priority before casting it, he or she gets priority."Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Miagi
Further explained, in 116.3c "If a player has priority when he or she casts a spell, activates an ability, or takes a special action, that player receives priority afterward."
Mr Miagi, I think you are missing the point, which is that if you cast a spell or activate an ability and you are not the active player, you have priority before your opponent (the active player). It is this opportunity which people were trying to use triggers to maintain priority for Krosan grip with a glimmerpost/titan after a show and tell'd omniscience. This sadly does not work, except to prevent sorcery affects, which was already mentioned multiple times. Running in here insulting people and then being oblivious of the argument only exhibits your ignorance.
I apologize for the bad information. I asked two different judges in my LGS, both of whom told me that you could Grip first. I then posted about it. After seeing replies here, I then went to magicjudges.org, who have confirmed it does not, in fact, work the way I thought. Again, sorry about that.
As of right now, I have 1 board slot in my lastest development build of Gw.
Someone suggested I try 1 splendid reclaimation to hedge again Wastelands. I'm really on the fence about it. I could contemplate trying it, but I'm not even sure if it's worth it even with 4 fetches/crop rotations. Has anyone tried using this new card yet?
I'd have to see the build to give an informed decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
I like Splendid Reclamation for non-blue variants though, but with some form of above outside of "land destruction counter" ala zuran orb/claws of gix/harrow type affects
I want to thank you. At least now we know what the f*** is going on :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotmaster
Last night my fiance ran the gw post list just with a few edits. Still missing new emrakul, but we added grapple with the past over explore and it was an amazing addition. Also added 2 Splendid Reclamation to the board. She used it against esper deathblade and it was amazing for her between wastelands firing off, liliana ticking up she was able to get a ton of value from it. She was 6-0 in games until infect, which is a tough match up anyway and he had close to perfect draws and disruption. Grapple and splendid reclamation are definitely amazing, we can't wait to test new emrakul though!
I was contemplating with Grapples this week. How many were you playing? I think I could easily support two. My two flex slots currently have 1 Courser of Kruphix* and 1 Candelbra.Quote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
*I'm still not 100% sure how easily I can support "GG" with the manabase.
Running two could make for an easy swap in/out my two sideboard rest in peace.
Never missed the maps. Haven't tested them for over 3-4 months now, it was my 1st card I dropped from the core list. They are so darn slow and clunky imo for U/G build play style. Mono green or colorless they are a must imo since a more aggro style deck. If running 25-26 lands, I would use them most likely and this is usually with trinket type builds. And abrupt decay is a thing...Outside of candle and EE. Nothing in my deck list to decay which I loved. Map was always a target in tourneys before and really never got much benefit from it anyway. Now for decks with MB decay its 4 dead cards in their deck for them...and most won't SB out since think so many targets for it. Usually candles out SB too for me, so 4 cards for 2 EE that I play and blow instant with priority. So 4 dead cards...Quote:
Originally Posted by into_play
The needles are good...but main reason in was for wastelands. With 27-28 lands MB and 4 crop rotations...I actually hope they play it. Crop in response best play, but laying another land next turn while they slowed themselves a turn I'm always fine with. With that said, you need to protect your posts much more as Rock stated a bit, you have to play the deck little different. EoT or during their turn, I felt I almost always had a play. Cropped for tabby, nephelia, CoS, bog like 3 times, and once for chasm or be dead. Map for 3 total, and then land to go to our hand and still need to play it, just too slow I feel for legacy. Also, your opponent sees it. They know another post or CoS or whatever could be cmon. Good legacy players know deck your playing almost as well as you...Why I love crop rotation...if they don't know my hand, element of surprise and easier to set them into a play they shouldn't of made. Getting lands was never an issue minus my one game where I couldn't buy a land to start in my hand...and when did drew the 2 vesuva (i cut down from 3 to avoid this lol). That is just bad variance, and can't get around that. Just make better with more consistency...Grapple with the past seems decent as replacement. Increase consistency...get lands back from wastelands or just get fetch back to keep spinning top. Curious anyones thoughts on it that has played it. I haven't tested it at all.
Needles I put in SB, card is a house for so many decks to slow them the few turns we need. It was SB due to the fact if I played it, it never was for wasteland as 1st target (Opposite of them MB from other builds)...just inkmoths, thespian stage, walkers, etc. Vials were always a nice needle name...but the gold star card for me "repeal" just crushes decks with it. Ports without vials just aren't that great, and you can get above their land count and take over with ease usually. So needle didn't hurt there either. Wasteland decks with graveyard recursion...have the needles, but I bring in surg extractions as well and just eliminate it. Considered removing them completely from SB with deck like Rock just didn't recently. 4 flusters and maybe 3 grips for omni and miracles seems quite good...
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