Are you taking the car? The Autobahn is calling...Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Printable View
Are you taking the car? The Autobahn is calling...Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Results have shown otherwise but it's a pretty small sample size either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memories of the Time
I'm a big fan of Pod (especially BUG) but I had to give it up for a few reasons, the first is that the deck slots are just too tight, the second is that Pod is very slow, the third is that Pod wants to go higher on the curve, but topping out at 5 has proven better with our ramp, and the fourth is that the mana is horrible.
If you want to discuss it though post your thoughts, I played BUG Pod exclusively from 2 years ago until last November.
Uh, not to humble brag, but either one of a few things:Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
1) Pricing out shipping the car there and back.
2) Dad might be ordering a new Porsche and opt for Stuttgart delivery, drive Europe, then get it shipped home after.
3) Working out details on a vintage Ferrari a friend of a friend is selling in NL.
4) Work out the cost of renting an exotic for 2-3 weeks.
We could discuss some of your point, im playing pod myself and i dont really agree with some of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
I top my curve at 5, with keranos, thragtusk and shriekmaw, i dont really find myself in need for a six drop, 99% of the metagame scoops to keranos, i find pod to be way less veteran dependant than other lists, I just play 3 five drops (one is shriekmaw) and 4 four drops, the deck can play at a reasonable speed with only 3 lands on the board, and we also have plenty of tools to stall the game for ages anyway as you sure know.
Not having that many slots to work with is something i can agre on but not completely, once i took the deck i made various changes such as introducing red, keranos, ophiomancers, decays (the list i played used to be decayless), i tryed both 3/4 veterans and teraphyes, gave a shot to ponder and preordain, played top and library, with and without deed, even fringe cards like hibernation end and kiki jiki are viable choices, of course you have to play a lets say 35 cards configuration to get the deck to work, but i dont really think there is no space to work with.
Probably what you mean is that you have to respect a strict mana curve/creature number and there is not much you can do about it, I understand how being forced to play close to no four off and less than 15 spells may be a limit, i have been playing combo for the last 8 years so im fine with a creature based deck but i get it.
About the mana, mhh, i dont usually find myself screwed unless im against a deck actively targeting my manabase, and those deck are mainly delvers, that cant deal properly with veterans and death and taxes, and thats a pretty good match up in my experience, the only real problematic wasteland MU proved to be lands, and aggro loam to a certain degree (and punishing fire tend to be the real issue, not wastelands).
Is clear that other nic fir variant have a better mana base, but i dont really think thats a big deal, and of course brainstorm is bonkers even in fixing mana.
I think the biggest problem with pod is drawing poor utility cards in the wrong MU, the deck is much more reactive than any other non blue nif fit decklist and that may be problematic, you also have a much better time against some specific cards such as Jace but you end up losing to some others (mostly jitte, revoker, and punishing fire).
If your in the Netherlands your always welcome to spin some games over a beer or a coffee with some friends of mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Just stepping in after a couple of weeks of silence. Getting frustrated with the deck i decided to jam some Aggro Loam in Frankfurt.
The results where poor, but the games where freaking awesome. Also lost a JPN signed Liliana in the process...... No one tried to sell it at the vendors or dropped it at the judge station. Well, bummer.
Anyhow, that pod list going T8 was looking pretty sweet. Couple things that look interesting is that the list runs 4 GSZ, 2 POD, 0 Brainstorm and 0 FOW. This way it might play a more "regular" NicFit game and not relying on POD so much. Not really sure why he didn't play Brainstorm. Not playing FoW is understandable tho. During the tournament i've seen that T8 list and another list on an higher table running Grave Titan. The meta is very healthy for Pod and NicFit in general. Jund PFire defenitly has the least best place right now with Eldrazi around. But in the end you might just dodge a bullet and not play Eldrazi at all and just shred Delver and the likes. But going top 8 in a 10 round tournament proves me enough.
Funny thing is tho, that while constructing a pod list myself i always end up with feeling that such lists are way to clunky. Seeing 4 GSZ and a couple of POD is solid place to start. As a matter of fact, looking at Ralf's Junk Pod list and considering the BUG list i think that there is even more potential to be exploited.
All in all, seeing the results and actual play by others have yet again inspired the love for the archetype.
Glad to see bobman back. I am sorry for your loss and hope you can reclaim it somehow. Absolutely infuriating for someone to steal your work of art. I have been following the thread but I have not had much constructive to add so I've remained silent. Mostly working on Jund for the GP this weekend. Hopefully I will see some of you there which would be cool. I haven't had much time to jam mtgo games so my nic fit fu is a bit rusty and I will defer to others judgment.
As for frustration, I can see where its coming from. The deck seems to be at a waypoint where we need to adapt or explore different options especially with miracles as our worst mu trying this new nihiri bullshit. The aggro version posted a few pages back could be a starting point, I also LOVE the PoPs out of the board against slow deck. Often times, they let rhinos resolve and deal with them through removal. So they life total is taxed but since we have limited reach, they use it as a resource till they are low enough to stabilize. In the case of having PoPs post board, we can sneak in the damage out of nowhere or chunk them hard enough they are back pedaling to survive. ALSO, its damage so you can redirect to jace, the headache.
EDIT: also Rubblekill <3
Let me explain some of my points.
3 5 drops is still an increase, the typical deck these days is running 1 5 drop alongside some 4's and far more 1's. The problem comes in the early game, pod takes 4 mana to cast and activate, which means you're looking at having several 3 drops so that you can curve a 3 drop into a pod. This coincides with the best pod slot being from 3 to 4. Adding these 3's though means that you're dropping on 1's and 2's. I'll get into this more on the deck slot issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noctalor
Well, lets look at the deck skeleton. You're not getting away with less than 21 lands, but Pod itself also can't really function on fewer than 22 creatures because that leaves a curve ofQuote:
Not having that many slots to work with is something i can agre on but not completely, once i took the deck i made various changes such as introducing red, keranos, ophiomancers, decays (the list i played used to be decayless), i tryed both 3/4 veterans and teraphyes, gave a shot to ponder and preordain, played top and library, with and without deed, even fringe cards like hibernation end and kiki jiki are viable choices, of course you have to play a lets say 35 cards configuration to get the deck to work, but i dont really think there is no space to work with.
1 - 7
2 - 3
3 - 6
4 - 4
5 - 2
That leaves you a total of 17 spells, but you're already going to be using up 4 of those on Therapy, 2-3 on Pod, and 4 on other tutors (if you want GSZ in Pod is up for debate). So you're looking at only having 7 other spells. That leaves you with the option of Brainstorms or removal. If you want a FoW plan out of the SB the Brainstorms are required, but that means you lose removal, if you want removal it means you lose Force and I haven't even included other cards here like Deed or Top.
The curve is also pretty awkward if you can't curve from 1 mana to 3 but instead get stuck on 2. It's like losing an entire turn because you have so few 2 drops to play.
Now lets look at those individual creature slots:
Your 1's are going to be taken up by DRS and Vet while your 2's are almost certainly all going to be Baleful Strix. This means you have no GSZ at 2 unless you drop some CA for an Ooze, but you have no reliable way to pod into an Ooze.
The best 3's are Kitchen Finks, Vendilion Clique, Eternal Witness, Reclamation Sage, and Liliana, Heretical Healer. The problem with these are that they're all double mana. Green is automatically your primary to cast acceleration, and it's a stretch (but not impossible) to have CC of your secondary color on turn 3, so what you're looking at which you want between Liliana and Clique. If you want to use FoW this decision is already made for you because you need enough blue cards.
At 4, Redcap is super powerful but at BB has a restrictive cost, the same is true of Exarch, plus you need blue for FoW. That largely pigeonholes you into Glen Elendra+Sower of Temptation alongside 2 others, preferably 1 green and 1 blue.
It's just very restrictive, you're full of 1 of's that aren't consistent without Pod because your back up tutor can't fetch any FoW fodder, and if you go without FoW you're largely giving up the entire advantage of being blue to begin with, and you might as well be Junk or Jund at that point.
Almost all good pod targets are CC or CD for mana costs, it can be very difficult to get the mana base correct, particularly when you have to devote 6 slots to basics, and then probably some colorless lands as well.Quote:
About the mana, mhh, i dont usually find myself screwed unless im against a deck actively targeting my manabase, and those deck are mainly delvers, that cant deal properly with veterans and death and taxes, and thats a pretty good match up in my experience, the only real problematic wasteland MU proved to be lands, and aggro loam to a certain degree (and punishing fire tend to be the real issue, not wastelands).
It's a huge deal though because the GSZ based decks not only get a better mana base, but the cards they're casting better line up with the lands on the field. For example in my build if I want to curve Vet into Bob I can do it in a single Bayou, or with 2 basics fairly easy. If you want to curve Vet into Strix you cannot do it without a dual land and all 3 colors of mana. Even when you do have all three colors an Underground Sea locks you out of casting that sequence without a second dual.Quote:
Is clear that other nic fir variant have a better mana base, but i dont really think thats a big deal, and of course brainstorm is bonkers even in fixing mana.
Any chance of posting your list? I'm convinced there's something to Jund right now. When I tried it, it got absolutely stomped by Eldrazi but I do like that it should have a strong game against Miracles and pretty much any other fair deck in the format. It has more interaction against combo too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
I don't have one bc I do not have any lilys online. I decided to get them irl. I have everything but those. I can draw you up a list if you would like but it would be from my experience and not from recent testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
I read you post Brael, and the best i can say its to try my decklist if you wanna
2 Ophiomancer
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
4 Baleful Strix
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Thragtusk
1 Shriekmaw
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
3 Birthing Pod
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Sower of Temptation
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Volcanic Island
2 Forest
2 Island
1 Swamp
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Taiga
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Duress
SB: 1 Sulfur Elemental
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 3 Slaughter Games
SB: 1 Murderous Cut
SB: 1 Innocent Blood
I actually play
1 - 7
2 - 6
3 - 4
4 - 4
5 - 3 (one is shriekmaw)
List also has no additional tutors, as you can see the list is not that pod centric, i dont expect pod to get online, most MU will do their best to prevent that and there arent many fancy cards, most of them work by themselves and are not that situational.
On the ophiomancers, im trying them and they are doing REALLY good, if you wanna a more classic build Flinks and Vendilion used to be in those slots
I find myself really fine not playing force of will at all, is not really that good in my opinion in this deck, we are still going to lose to combo preboard and is not that good as a sideboard card in my opinion, also most of the times we dont really want to pitch any of the few blue cards we hold.
Now talking about the curve.
Yes the 1 are for veterans and deathrite, no double about that.
In the 2 slot i play six cards, baleful is the only 4 off i will never cut from the deck atm, image is bonkers in this deck and both image and ooze are really good tools for the mid/late game.
As i said my 3 mana slot is a bit strange at the moment, but i have only witness as a double specific cost, never tryed liliana, would like to hear some feedback about her.
About the mana, i play 4 brainstorms, only 5 basics and no colorless source, the lack of utility lands chould be a problem, but i dont really like phirexian tover since im the incarnation of being NEVER lucky.
So, since our take on the deck seems to be fairly different i would suggest you to try my version if you have some spare time, maybe you'll like it :laugh:
My best performing blue lists ran more GSZ's rather than less and had repeatable card selection with Top. I found the 2 to 3 pod for Trinket Mage in order to grab a toolbox was very useful, but the problem was in jamming in enough 2's. Hangarback Walker, Pithing Needle, Engineered Explosives, and Top made for a pretty strong toolbox. Walker was especially powerful actually. I also found things worked best without Brainstorm because Pod like GSZ gets exponentially better as you have more targets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noctalor
Some suggestions on this route. Rather than Ophiomancer and Reclamation Sage try Trygon Predator and Edric.
What's the point of Thragtusk if Keranos just wins games? Thragtusk seems to me like a concession to GSZ but you weren't using GSZ so why leave that toolbox piece in? Instead just go with Keranos, but I'm not a fan of 4 color lists. I prefer consistency (in fact, the white splash in the typical Rhino lists is too far into a third color for my tastes). The two best deck building rules I ever learned:
- If you want to cast your spells more than your opponent, add another land or two (this is why I always play GSZ+Arbor, it lets me run an effective 26 land... which again goes into something that was a turn off in Pod).
- When in doubt, cut a color... especially if you have too many cards to choose from. This is why I just don't embrace the Taiga for Slaughter Games. It also happens to be why I think Jund has a lot to offer.
Whatever you can come up with would be handy. I made a Jund list a couple weeks ago but it didn't do so well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
----------------------------------------------------
And any thoughts from others for my idea the other day, trying out Traverse in Junk. I like the idea of chaining Eternal Witnesses with Restoration Angels. Throw in some Tidehollows, some Fleshbags, some Coursers. I think there's something to it even without Entomb.
Hey, I just brewed this thing up on pen and paper. Let me know if I'm missing something obvious before I go and test this monstrosity.
2 decks 1 box 2016
4 veteran explorer
4 burning wish
4 cabal therapy
2 painful truths
2 diabolic intent
2 skeletal scrying
4 punishing fire
3 life from the loam
3 pernicious deed
3 scapeshift
2 dark depths
3 wasteland
4 grove of the burnwillowz
1 bayou
3 taiga
2 badlands
2 valakut, the molten pinnacle
3 thespian stage
3 wooded foothills
3 mountain
2 forest
1 swamp
sideboard TBD,thinking:
thought-knot
loam
slaughter games
massacre
innocent blood
living wish(burning into living into thought knot or land)
depths/stage
GSZ
truths
sylvan scrying
wastes
REB
ruination/from the ashes
what do you guys think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Same here!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Hey, I thought of PoP in Nic Fit first! It's just that rubble was the one to actually do it... Lol!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
As for Junk Fit Pod - just Pod to Eternal Witness and Meren and start powering out Rhino after Rhino (or turn one into a Sigarda in case of flyers). No need to expand into durdlemuch territory. Just work in a few Pods in the regular Rhino list (cutting the 6 CMC slot would be my first Pod-slot) and start smashing face.
My meta is absolutely infested with lands and other loam decks (%30 of a given room). whats the best nic fit variant for this meta?
also has anybody been able to parse my list above? should i give more info? if so, on what?
Path to Exile is pretty good in that MU...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wordslinger
echelon, what are your thoughts on how that matchup plays out? I've played it from both sides and it seems terrible. but there could be something I'm missing at the strategic level to turn it around IDK.
Does no one want to comment on the list 3 of my posts back? I'd like some feedback even if it's just that i'm a nutjob and there's no way my pile is playable.
I've been keeping a close eye on this thread for awhile, as I'm probably going to be playing Junk Fit at GP Columbus next month and I just figured I'd see what you all think of my list so far. I still need a lot of practice, I make some stupid misplays every now and then but I'm slowly getting a feel for the deck.
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
4 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Path to Exile
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skeletal Scrying
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Painful Truths
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Vindicate
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
SIDEBOARD
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Price of Progress
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Slaughter Games
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
TBH I know the first thing that'll probably be commented on is the Apex Predator, but I think it's sweet and I refuse to cut it until I've actually had some time to test it out. (Plus I just really wanna use my sweet SDCC foil T^T)
I just added the PoP over the Chokes that I had, they seem solid AF
This list seems absolutely HILARIOUS and I would love to test it out but no fetches seems wrong?? IDK what you would even cut for some either like it might just be too ambitiousQuote:
Originally Posted by Wordslinger
57 cards oops editing now
its worth noting you can just scapeshift with 4 lands in play for depths stage and activate on the spot.
anyone else? echelon maybe?
I might add that I have added a second PoP, since it grants literally free wins out of nowhere. Since I am seeing less storm online (thanks eldrazi?) I have removed 1 discard spell from the sb (still playing 2 ts main).
The card adds a new layer of unfairness that this deck usually lacks (apart from the "unfair" t2 tower into rhino that can be negated by a 1 cmc instant at eot).
Who is playing safe keeper in the sb? He can be definitely a lock piece but I have yet to decide if it's worthy of a sb slot.
Man, I thought that list would spark some discussion, particularly because can have thought knot in the 75. there are a lot of sweet interactions, but if no one even wants to say anything, I guess I'll just goldfish it or something. I can't do anything else without buying scapeshifts, so I really wanted peoples input.
i would still like to know what people think of the lands matchup, and if its as bad as i think it is. do you guys play rest in peace?
- Valakut with only 8 mountains is risky and often won't kill unless you get the 8th landQuote:
Originally Posted by Wordslinger
- You can't afford to run Diabolic Intent if you're running only 4 creatures - you at least need a dryad arbor
- Your only ramp is Vet and you have no tutors for it - you have very small odds of getting to 7 lands before turn 5
- You can't Scapeshift into Depths well because Scape puts lands in tapped, so you have two turns of doing nothing before you get your 20/20.
- 7 black sources is probably too few
- Depths + Scape don't belong in the same list because they do the same thing - win you the game, but strain your manabase and lose to wastelands. You don't gain much from playing both other than a worse manabase.
- You're only playing ~15 cards which give you board position, or interact with your opponent in any way. You have lots of filtering but very few cards that actually do anything - not having creatures means your removal will be more taxed, and you don't have enough removal even for a standard list.
Looking at the first few sample hands I tried:
- Wish, Deed, Deed, Grove, Depths, Swamp, Taiga
You do nothing until turn 3-4 at the earliest.
- Therapy, Wish, Deed, Stage, Depths, Forest, Foothills
You have a single Therapy, a bit of slow interaction, and lethal on turn five. Might get there if you can snipe a swords / your opponent isn't faster than you.
- Truths, Deed, Vet, Valakut, Grove, Badlands, Stage
If your opponent has no way around Vet, you can maybe Truths into something. If they do, you do nothing till turn four again.
- Valakut, Grove, Deed, Mountain, Badlands, Wish, PFire
You have Grove + PFire but not much else. If you're against a deck that's weak to Punishing but doesn't play Waste (i.e. Elves) you might be good, otherwise you don't do much till turn 3/4 again.
Scapeshift, Wish, Loam, Waste, Mountain, Vet, Deed
No green sources, no Vet sac outlet.
- If you want to go Scapeshift, you need more ramp cards and ways of getting Veteran into play (ie. GSZ) or you won't get there in time.
- If you want to go Depths, you need better tutors for them (Crop Rotation is wayyy better than Scapeshift at this)
- If you want to go Grove, you need better board control which means more creatures. Your removal won't be enough, particularly because you have difficulty ramping into it so Deed will usuallly be too slow.
There's our Scapeshift god!
@Wordslinger: Have some patience with the board, it isn't a chatroom, lol. I used to run RiP, but I don't really need the GY hate all that much in my meta. I'm fine with playing any Lands/Loam MU. My 4 PtE do a lot of work there and I get to make some Meren loops.
Thanks, Thats exactly the kind of feedback i wanted. Obv you mull the hands that do straight nothing, like hands 1 and 5 but it seems like this is a pile. Thing is, without your context, i would've spent hours trying to fix it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
The lands MU is pretty shitty, regardless the build you run. On overall i would not run RiP in any case on NicFit. Most lists more or less like a graveyard for themselves. Nonetheless i think Surgical Extraction is the best (better) card versus Lands because it can strip Loam, PFire and most importantly Dark Detphs entirely. Often times Lands players dredge all their crap into the yard, so it is fairly easy to snitch them. But always be aware of cycling lands or grove activation when doing so. And then we can say that Surgical Extraction is more applicable in other match-up's aswell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wordslinger
That said, Junk definitely has an edge over the rest of NicFit on the Lands imho.
Some pointers here:
4 Path to Exile - 1 mana, instant, always lurking to snap remove Marit Lage with 0 downsides. 4 copies along with SDT, fetch, PTruths, and your additional CA engines it does show up more.
1 Karakas - While Karakas is the best answer to Marit Lage, it is also the weakest due to Wasteland (Rishadan Port) and Life from the Loam. The best thing to do is hold it on your hand until the critical turn.
Deathrite Shaman - Delivers early pressure, stops Loam/PFire but does dies to PFire.
Scavenging Ooze - Slower gravehate, but when eating up your own creatures you can boost it's thoughness to 3 or 5 to stay out of PFire range.
Pernicious Deed - Clears the board of Exploration and Mox'n. Denying them from Exploration means your slowing them down. Abrupt also works G1, but i would rather fo for Deed in G2/3. Be sure to keep an eye out for random Molten Vortex and/or Dark Confidant.
Veteran Explorer - Get basics and basics only. Always fetch for basics and keep duals on your hand unless you need to cast shit with it right away. Do not let them manascrew you out of the game. There is always a random Ghost Quarter, but ok.
Cabal Therapy - Crop Rotation is the preferred target. Or Gamble. They can Crop in response, so check the board state and jedi mind trick your opponent before snap blind calling something.
Fetchlands - If you don't need to break them, then don't. Having shuffle effects for SDT (or Library) will save your ass in finding that one Path.
Eternal Witness - Very solid card to play here since it reclaims Karakas or an additional Path.
Vindicate - can be a good card to break through a Maze lock.
Knight of the Reliquary - seems like a very solid card in this match-up because it will get big fast and can snipe into Karakas.
Lifegain - getting your life total above 20 points is always good since that means you can survive a hit with Marit lage.
Pithing Needle - Target may be Wasteland to gain value out of your Karakas or mana development. Or to stop Thespian Stage. But never just play a Pithing Needle and call something. Pithing Needle is good when you play it on something when is critical for that moment of the match. So often people snap cast a Pithing Needle on say Thespian Stage simply because that they are afraid of it taking over a game, and then it would never be relevant at all while a Wasteland is ripping them apart.. Hope it makes sense. While Thespian Stage is the most obvious target for Pithing Needle, it is often more important to name something so you can be kept in the game (Maze of Ith, Wasteland, Rishadan Port, etc).
Thoughtseize - when your on the play. But no more then 2. It is a really shitty topdeck after T1. Having that said, there are situations where you can Thoughtseize a Loam or PFire to follow-up with a Surgical Extraction.
Reclamation Sage - This card is never dead, plus it leaves a body. The ability to destroy a random Pithing Needle (on Deed or SDT) is really solid.
White mana - never tap out on white mana. If you tap-out they know you cannot snipe Marit Lage, unless you know exactly what they are holding and cannot poop on your head with Marit Lage.
Attack - Always attack with your creatures, even if they have Maze of Ith.
Hope this is what you where looking for.
This, exactly. The best PtE is the one you don't have to cast. Try to play some Jedi mind tricks, like touching your white mana source and "realising" you don't want to tap it. The key to running a good bluff is actually having it from time to time though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
I love the second plains to be able to t2 a sigarda. Other than that it looks solid AF as f*ckQuote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Pain
No one has mentioned how you kill lands yet, the key card is Sigarda or Thrun. Hexproof is key to dealing them damage (or looping rhinos which takes way more setup and and mana though). Bonus points with equipment. Mega bonus points if you have a Sigada with a SoLaS for Marit Lage immunity.
If noncolored mana can be incorporated into Nic Fit, then I really like the potential for not just Thought-Knot Seer, but Eldrazi Displacer as well. In fact I'd be more excited about the Displacer. He answers basically any creature threat, whether it is Emrakul, Marit Lage, Mirran Crusader, etc. Displacer also works wonderfully well with many of Nic Fit's mulldrifters - Eternal Witness, Siege Rhino, Reclamation Sage, Primeval Titan, Thragtusk, SFM, etc. He even can do work protecting Gaddock Teeg against StP and other targetted hate. Can't afford to extremely build around him since he isn't GSZ-able, but one or two could really improve the power of several other pieces.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wordslinger
I think there is some potential for an Abzan Colorless list. Think one or two Wastes makes the cut, to be tutored by STE or Vet? Think 4.5 color Nic Fit. Play Rhino, drain 3. Attack next turn for 4, then flicker it twice (drain 6) (yes, takes two Wastes and 6 mana, but I can dream!). Having a couple Ancient Tomb may also fit and could power out faster GSZ for stuff.
don't forget the batterskull for vigilance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
Displacer looks really cool, it's just difficult because it's not Zenithable and we can't play 3 like SFM. Are there any reasonable enablers along the lines of Strix in Abzan? I'm thinking Tidehollow Sculler maybe. Sculler is also great with Displacer itself
Irrelevant comment, sorry.
While it is true that 4x Rhinos + Tusk is overkill, I was thinking if the big presence of Eldrazi in the metagame might be a reason to play a 5 power creature that trades with smasher while gaining 5 life. Of course he is still (very) good against miracles.
Miracles and eldrazi are the top 2 decks in the online metagame, presence wise. Maybe it wouldn't be that overkill anymore to play tusk, while still having 4 rhinos?
I am thinking that he might be better than Meren: top 3 decks in the online meta are miracles, shardless and eldrazi. Tusk is better against miracles and eldrazi, while meren sucks against miracles but is decent against shardless and eldrazi.
Lately all the Meren value has been negated by opponent's DRS..quite frustrating
I've been yelling up this tree for weeks now (re Meren, not re Tusk). The annoying bit is that when Meren DOES get online, she's backbreaking. The worst bit about Meren, I think, is that no matter what's popular in the metagame, she's ALWAYS going to have the same problems she has now. If you aren't running Swords to Plowshares, you're running Deathrite Shaman and potentially Scavenging Ooze. If it's not Miracles, it would be Esperblade. If it's not Shardless, it would be Jund. And so on.Quote:
Originally Posted by rubblekill
I need to really take a long, hard look at Meren. I like the card a lot, it's a busted card for sure, it's Zenithable, it seems like exactly what we want. And the maybe 35% of the time she actually get online uninterrupted, she is. Then there's the rest of the time.
I hate to say it because, as you said, when they haven't complete control over our gy with DRS she IS devastating. It's the low consistency of the card that annoys me a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
You said it better though: if they don't have stp they might have a drs in play (although we can always kill it with the plentiful removal arsenal at our disposal).
If it helps, I moved off of Meren and onto a 4th Rhino. I've been trying to reduce my GY interaction as much as possible in G1. I'm still keeping it in mind for a SB game where it might be better positioned though. My only GY interaction now is Volrath's and Eternal Witness which are both too good to pass up, but Volrath's vs Deathrite Shaman is pretty awkward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
I love Meren, but getting constantly fucked by Karakas and DRS isn't where I want to be. And, the card is a solid do-nothing against Miracles. It's only great in the other BGx matchups, and I might as well just grind them out with walkers since they also handle Miracles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
Recurring Nightmare has more setup and requirements, but actually can end the game.
For Lands, it's never a great matchup. Usually you need to hope they don't Port you before you can cast Sigarda. Sigarda backed by casting Rhinos is essentially your win condition. Nightmare shines since it helps loop Rhinos through Glacial Chasm locks in the control builds.
It's not a complete do nothing, it does hit for 3 damage some times. That's better than what Recurring Nightmare will hit for.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Walker builds seem interesting but I'm not a Sorin fanboy, he's certainly powerful and I enjoy that he's the most metal card in the game aside from Mogis, God of Slaughter, I'm just not looking for non tutorable 6 drops though and nothing at lower mana really excites me. What I like most is getting to play things like Xenagod and Slaughter Games out of Jund without having to splash a 4th color. I think there's something to that, but I just can't seem to get it to work yet.
I might go back to it. But I've enjoyed reducing rather than increasing my graveyard dependence. With the builds I've been playing with that are a bit more creature focused I already have more points of interaction for the opponent so extending to the GY and letting them meaningfully interact with me there too isn't something I've been too happy to do.Quote:
Recurring Nightmare has more setup and requirements, but actually can end the game.
Intresting might try that aswell, but sofar the matchups ive been in most players board in gravehate against me, i guess its because i play in main things like ooze, deathrite, witness, therapies, meren and when playing jund the punishing fire engine. (not always all those cards at the same time but in some conjunction)Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
I would reather have GY interactions game one when my opponents usually have a random deathrite or ooze at the most that i need to take care of. Id rather put something else in round 2/3 and board out GY interactions if needed. but that might just be me. I mean miracles play Rest in Peace. so does some death/stoneblade decks. death n taxes n more. so might be a meta thing. =)
I still think having the second Sigarda ain't no slouch move, as well. Doubling up against Shardless, Jund, and Miracles seems tight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoline