You are not missing anything, I was.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
Thinking I don't need neonate if you make me discard, but that doesn't work indeed.
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You are not missing anything, I was.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
Thinking I don't need neonate if you make me discard, but that doesn't work indeed.
Round 2 - AKA the deck I originally had for round 1 before I talked myself out of it. Lets see how it worked out this time.
1. Asthereal (TO): Mountain, Ancient Tomb, Bonecrusher Giant, Lupine Prototype
OTP Golem stops your Giant Andy 2 threats beats your 1. OTD we play out our threats and stare. WL
4-1
2. Reeplcheep: plains, Simian Spirit Guide, phyrexian dreadnought, Hushbringer
Get Trampled. LL
0-6
3. alphastryk: Ancient Tomb, Crystal Vein, Lupine Prototype, Lodestone Golem
This is me
4. PJim: Swamp, Elvish Spirit Guide, Cabal Therapist, Mayor of Avabruck
I think I win the race either way with 5/5s vs Mayor, but lets double check.
OTP:
a t1: Tomb, Prototype. (a: 18, p: 20)
p t1: Swamp, pitch ESG, Mayor.
a t2: Vein, Golem. Attack with Prototype. (a: 16, p: 15)
p t2: Pass turn to flip Mayor.
a t3: Attack (a: 16, p: 5). There's no way for you to block both threats the next turn without losing the Mayor. W
OTD I think it plays out similarly because you want to flip Mayor as quickly as you can, its see if 1 turn is enough.
p t1: Swamp, pitch ESG, Mayor
a t1: Tomb, Prototype (a: 18, p: 20)
p t2: Pass to flip Mayor
a t2: Vein, Golem. Attack with Prototype (a: 16, p: 15)
p t3: End step token.
a t3: Attack with both, Golem trades with a token. (a: 16, p: 10)
p t4: Therapist, end step token. I no longer have profitable attacks as you can always kill my Prototype and keep at least a 1/1. L
3-3
5. Wrath of Pie: Mana Confluence, Elvish Spirit Guide, Mayor of Avabruck, Granger Guildmage
This should play out just like the match vs PJim above. WL
3-3
6. dte: Great Furnace, triplicate titan, insolent neonate, Goblin Welder
OTP Golem stops one of Neonate or Welder and that's enough. OTD you're able to setup your Titan, which I can't beat. WL
3-3
7. FTW: Eldrazi Temple, Simian Spirit Guide, Eldrazi Mimic, Phyrexian Dreadnought
Get Trampled. LL
0-6
8. silkster: Plains, Icatian Javelineers, Cenn's Tactician, Solitude
OTP:
a t1: Tomb, Prototype. (a: 18, s: 20)
s t1: CT, Evoke Solitude to remove Prototype. (a: 23, s: 20)
a t2: Vein, Golem
s t2: pass (can pump CT on my EoT)
a t3: Attack. EoT s pumps CT (2/2) (a: 23, s: 15)
s t3: pass (can pump CT on my EoT)
a t4 Attack. EoT s pumps CT (3/3) (a: 23, s: 10)
s cannot make CT into a 6/6 fast enough to win, but can leave up a 3 power blocker to force the draw.
OTD changes the math by 1 turn but it's not enough. DD
2-2
9. RoosterCocoa: Forest, Rishadan Port, Thallid, Mayor of Avabruck
OTP, my Golem comes down on my turn 2 and your Mayor is stranded forever - that's enough.
OTD, you're 1 turn slower that the other Mayor decks but get a chump blocker, lets see:
r t1: Forest, Thallid
a t1: Tomb, Prototype (a: 18, r: 20)
r t2: Thallid (1), Port, Mayor
a t2: Vein, Golem. Attack with Prototype (Thallid does not chump to try to make a token) (a: 18, r: 15)
r t3: Thallid (2), Pass to flip Mayor
a t3: Attack (a: 18, r: 5)
r t4: Thallid (3), Saproling, Mayor token
a t4: attack, Saproling chumps Prototype and Wolf trades with Golem. (a: 18, r: 5)
t t5: Thallid (1), Mayor token.
a has no profitable attacks due to Mayor + token which leaves r with a threat no matter what. L
3-3
10. maxx!: Ancient Tomb, Kazandu Refuge, Magus of the Moon, Bonecrusher Giant
OTP Golem prevents your creatures from coming down. W
OTD Moonman prevents Golem and Prototype does nothing if you hold Giant. L
3-3
11. GoblinSmashmaster: Ancient Tomb, Simian Spirit Guide, Magus of the Moon, Lupine Prototype
Moonman strands my Golem, and if you hold your Prototype mine does nothing. LL
0-6
Total: 21 points by my count
Edit: Nope, stupid.
I missed that you can play Therapist on your turn 2 because Mayor will still flip after I play no spells on my turn 3. Updating this match and vs Wrath of Pie.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
Edit - you can't play the Therapist through Golem, so my original logic stands.
5. Wrath of Pie: Mana Confluence, Elvish Spirit Guide, Mayor of Avabruck, Granger Guildmage
1. Asthereal (TO): Mountain, Ancient Tomb, Bonecrusher Giant, Lupine Prototype DD - I think this matchup is an excellent depiction of politics, which is appropriate with a Mayor around.
2. Reeplcheep: plains, Simian Spirit Guide, phyrexian dreadnought, Hushbringer LL
3. alphastryk: Ancient Tomb, Crystal Vein, Lupine Prototype, Lodestone Golem WL
4. PJim: Swamp, Elvish Spirit Guide, Cabal Therapist, Mayor of Avabruck WD
6. dte: Great Furnace, triplicate titan, insolent neonate, Goblin Welder WL
7. FTW: Eldrazi Temple, Simian Spirit Guide, Eldrazi Mimic, Phyrexian Dreadnought LL
8. silkster: Plains, Icatian Javelineers, Cenn's Tactician, Solitude LL - Conveniently lines up well against two X/1s.
9. RoosterCocoa: Forest, Rishadan Port, Thallid, Mayor of Avabruck WW
10. maxx!: Ancient Tomb, Kazandu Refuge, Magus of the Moon, Bonecrusher Giant WD
11. GoblinSmashmaster: Ancient Tomb, Simian Spirit Guide, Magus of the Moon, Lupine Prototype WW
8w4d = 28 points
Granger Guildmage was good in the mirror, but I brilliantly forgot about the power of the 12/12.
9. RoosterCocoa: Forest, Rishadan Port, Thallid, Mayor of Avabruck
1. Asthereal (TO): Mountain, Ancient Tomb, Bonecrusher Giant, Lupine Prototype
OTP if I play Thallid you outrace me by Stomping it, so I don't play Thallid. If you play Bonecrusher Giant, then I can play Mayor and start making 3/3s before I die, so you don't play Bonecrusher Giant and we draw. OTD it is the same, basically. DD
2. Reeplcheep: plains, Simian Spirit Guide, phyrexian dreadnought, Hushbringer
OTD I can't beat a 12/12 trample. OTP I get Thallid and Port you every turn onward, so you only get Hushbringer. Because you only have a 20 turn clock, this gives me enough time to create tokens with Thallid that I outrace you. WL
3. alphastryk: Ancient Tomb, Crystal Vein, Lupine Prototype, Lodestone Golem
OTP I play Thallid, you play Prototype, and then I Port you every turn and win with Thallid. OTD I only get Thallid before you can attack with both Prototype and Lodestone so I lose. WL
4. PJim: Swamp, Elvish Spirit Guide, Cabal Therapist, Mayor of Avabruck
OTP I play Thallid, you play Mayor, then I play Mayor, then you play Therapist. Thallid eventually gives me enough of an advantage to push through and win. OTD you play Therapist, I play Thallid, you take my Mayor with Therapist and play Mayor and your Mayor easily beats my Thallid. WL
5. Wrath of Pie: Mana Confluence, Elvish Spirit Guide, Mayor of Avabruck, Granger Guildmage
I don't think I can beat Granger Guildmage. LL
6. dte: Great Furnace, triplicate titan, insolent neonate, Goblin Welder
Nice deck! OTP I get Thallid, you get a 1/1, then I Port you every turn so you never play anything else. OTD I can't beat your combo. WL
7. FTW: Eldrazi Temple, Simian Spirit Guide, Eldrazi Mimic, Phyrexian Dreadnought
I can't beat a 12/12 with trample on turn 1. LL
8. silkster: Plains, Icatian Javelineers, Cenn's Tactician, Solitude
I think Javelineers being a 1/1 is enough that even though I can force you to grow Tactician on your upkeep I can't force a draw. LL
10. maxx!: Ancient Tomb, Kazandu Refuge, Magus of the Moon, Bonecrusher Giant
OTD you play Kazandu Refuge, then I play Thallid. If you play Magus and don't Stomp Thallid, I don't play Mayor and get enough tokens from Thallid to beat Magus. I need 3 1/1s to block Magus since otherwise I have to play Mayor and you can Stomp it as a 1/1. This means I only try to block Magus on your turn 8, so you have attacked 6 times and I am at 8. When you attack, I block with all 3 1/1s and you Stomp one of them. I then play Mayor on my turn, and you play Bonecrusher on yours. Since I am at 8, I can let one attack through, then have 3/3 tokens available to block the Bonecrusher from then on. I then overwhelm you with tokens. OTP I am faster, so it goes better for me since I can play Thallid and force you to Stomp it by Porting you every turn. WW
11. GoblinSmashmaster: Ancient Tomb, Simian Spirit Guide, Magus of the Moon, Lupine Prototype
OTD you play Prototype, I play Thallid, you play Magus and attack me to 15, then I play Mayor. You attack me to 8, then on my upkeep Mayor flips and I get a 3/3 at the end of my turn. I can now double block and kill Prototype, and then block and trade for Magus if it attacks after that and win with Thallid. OTP it goes the same. WW
8W 2D 10L = 26
I didn't have much time this week, so even though I considered Dreadnought last week I forgot about it this time around.
maxx!: Ancient Tomb, Kazandu Refuge, Magus of the Moon, Bonecrusher Giant
1. Asthereal (TO): Mountain, Ancient Tomb, Bonecrusher Giant, Lupine Prototype
Nice deck. Stomp doesn't quite let me trade Magus for Prototype, so you can just play out both your threats and I can't beat them. 0-6
2. Reeplcheep: plains, Simian Spirit Guide, phyrexian dreadnought, Hushbringer
I sure am glad that isn't Tocatli Honor Guard. OTP I Stomp your Hushbringer. OTD I'm too slow. 3-3
3. alphastryk: Ancient Tomb, Crystal Vein, Lupine Prototype, Lodestone Golem
OTP I can strand Lodestone Golem in your hand with Magus, then hold my Giant to keep Prototype offline. OTD Lodestone resolves before I can play anything. 3-3
4. PJim: Swamp, Elvish Spirit Guide, Cabal Therapist, Mayor of Avabruck
Therapist either takes my Giant or forces me to Stomp it, and Mayor beats my deck once it flips. 0-6
5. Wrath of Pie: Mana Confluence, Elvish Spirit Guide, Mayor of Avabruck, Granger Guildmage
Granger is always fast enough to land before Magus, and can threaten a clean trade by staying back to block. OTP I can get Stomp mana before the Mayor flips, but OTD I can't and lose to wolves. 1-4
6. dte: Great Furnace, triplicate titan, insolent neonate, Goblin Welder
OTP Stomp gets Welder before he can do his trick. OTD I'm too slow. 3-3
7. FTW: Eldrazi Temple, Simian Spirit Guide, Eldrazi Mimic, Phyrexian Dreadnought
Nice deck. 0-6
8. silkster: Plains, Icatian Javelineers, Cenn's Tactician, Solitude
This one is weird. CT requires me to hold Stomp, and Javelineers can trade with Magus (via Solitude or tapping). 2-2
9. RoosterCocoa: Forest, Rishadan Port, Thallid, Mayor of Avabruck
Pretty sure your analysis is right. 0-6
10. maxx!: Ancient Tomb, Kazandu Refuge, Magus of the Moon, Bonecrusher Giant
This is me :]
11. GoblinSmashmaster: Ancient Tomb, Simian Spirit Guide, Magus of the Moon, Lupine Prototype
I have to Stomp your Magus to do anything, but I can't actually beat Prototype with my own Magus + Giant. Stare. 2-2
0+3+3+0+1+3+0+2+0+2 = 14
Pretty bad, haha.
No results yet from Gobbo and silk, but assuming their opponents calculated the matches correctly and silk wins the head to head, these should be our standings for round 2:
1. Reeplcheep: 49 - 4,9
2. FTW: 42 - 4,2
2. silkster: 42 - 4,2
4. dte: 36 - 3,6
5. PJim: 29 - 2,9
6. Wrath of Pie: 28 - 2,8
7. RoosterCocoa: 26 - 2,6
8. Asthereal (TO): 21 - 2,1
8. alphastryk: 21 - 2,1
10. maxx!: 14 - 1,4
11. GoblinSmashmaster: 8 - 0,8
Which would lead to these bannings:
Cenn's Tactician
Eldrazi Mimic
Eldrazi Temple
Hushbringer
Icatian Javelineers
Phyrexian Dreadnought
Simian Spirit Guide
Solitude
My deck is ready, but I'll wait a day or so before opening the round, in case the bannings still change. Which might invalidate my own entry for next round. :cool:
Standings for the round I'll post later. The lookups in the spreadsheet failed for some reason. Worst case I'll do it by hand. Spoiler: it's quite close at the top.
Ancient Tomb is jealous that Eldrazi Temple got banned first. (Very likely it's gone after the next round though.)
Yeah that was a last minute change by FTW, who realized that Temple saved him 2 damage compared to Tomb. :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie
No more replies were posted, so I'm locking in the above bannings. Time to open up round 3.
ROUND 3 OF SEASON 11: LEGACY CREATURES & LANDS BANNATHON has started.
I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 3, so you can start sending me your decks.
DEADLINE: Wednesday the 24th of November at 11:00AM Central European Time.
(That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)
PLEASE NOTE:
The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows: Urborg, Quicksand, Daughti Slayer, Black Knight.
So with card tags around each card, and not above eachother, and with your Username and 4CB S11R03 in the topic.
Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. You'll find it in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet (which I'll build shortly).
After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.
Happy deckbuilding! :smile:
Just checking in now. I just want to say that I'm blown away that both Magus of the Moon and Ancient Tomb somehow survived this round.
Thanks for checking my scores. I would have been overexcited and missed that Hushbringer stops Solitude, even though I almost played Hushbringer myself. I'm a little sad that I lost to Dreadnaught cause I thought I was specifically targeting it, and I had both versions in mind. Oops.
Edit: Also, that Triplicate Titan deck is super cool. It's really cool how it shrugs off Blood Moon and goes over the top of even Steel Overseers.
The deadline has passed, and it looks like I'm missing entries from silk and maxx!
I'll give you guys a few more hours while I do work stuff.
EDIT: silk's deck is in. Just maxx!'s to go.
maxx! is probably busy, so let's get round 3 going.
DECKS FOR ROUND 3 OF SEASON 11: Legacy Creatures & Lands Bannathon
1. Asthereal (TO): Swamp, Cabal Therapist, Fourth Bridge Prowler, Chronomaton
2. alphastryk: Crystal Vein, Elvish Spirit Guide, Elvish Spirit Guide, Lodestone Golem
3. Reeplcheep: Devoted Druid, Vizier of Remedies, Savannah, Crawling Barrens
4. Wrath of Pie: Taiga, Ancient Tomb, Mayor of Avabruck, Bonecrusher Giant
5. dte: Maze of Ith, Maze of Ith, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Murderous Rider
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Ancient Tomb, Kazandu Refuge, Magus of the Moon, Bonecrusher Giant
7. FTW: Swamp, Fourth Bridge Prowler, Mishra's Factory, Mesmeric Fiend
8. PJim: Ancient Tomb, Walking Ballista, Lupine Prototype, Lupine Prototype
9. RoosterCocoa: Pendelhaven, Maze of Ith, Swarm Shambler, Utopia Mycon
10. silkster: Taiga, Granger Guildmage, Chronomaton, Mogg Fanatic
Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
I'll create a tab for the round in our Google Spreadsheet, so you can enter your scores there as well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
Asthereal's scores for round 3:
1. Asthereal (TO): Swamp, Cabal Therapist, Fourth Bridge Prowler, Chronomaton <-me
2. alphastryk: Crystal Vein, Elvish Spirit Guide, Elvish Spirit Guide, Lodestone Golem WW
I can cast Chrono through Golem. It grows fast enough to stop Golem, and if you don't attack, I grow to 20/20 and then attack.
3. Reeplcheep: Devoted Druid, Vizier of Remedies, Savannah, Crawling Barrens WW
Nice combo. OTP Therapist takes one part of the combo, Chrono wins it. OTD you can put infinite counters on a tapped Barrens, but then I Prowler Vizier, which dies.
Now you can't make enough mana anymore to activate Barrens and have it be untapped, so I get to grow Chrono again and win it.
4. Wrath of Pie: Taiga, Ancient Tomb, Mayor of Avabruck, Bonecrusher Giant WW
Prowler kills Mayor. I open with Therapist so I have a threat. You have to Stomp it. Then you can cast Giant, but Chrono grows fast enough to win it.
5. dte: Maze of Ith, Maze of Ith, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Murderous Rider DD
I Therapist the Rider, but then I have two threats vs. two Mazes, so we draw.
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Ancient Tomb, Kazandu Refuge, Magus of the Moon, Bonecrusher Giant WW
OTP I Therapist Giant and Chrono beats Magus. OTD you can Stomp the Therapist, but then Chrono still wins it. But if you don't Stomp Therapist, I use it and Chrono still wins it.
7. FTW: Swamp, Fourth Bridge Prowler, Mishra's Factory, Mesmeric Fiend WW
My Therapist takes your Prowler, unless you use it on the Therapist, but if you do that, Chrono wins it. My Prowler kills Fiend, unless you use Fiend on Prowler. But if you do that, Chrono again wins it.
So I don't think you can prevent Chrono from hitting the board and taking over.
8. PJim: Ancient Tomb, Walking Ballista, Lupine Prototype, Lupine Prototype LL
I need Chrono to stop the Prototypes, but in order to play around Ballista I need to drop Therapist first, which makes me waaay too slow.
9. RoosterCocoa: Pendelhaven, Maze of Ith, Swarm Shambler, Utopia Mycon LL
EDIT: Mycon doesn't die to the Prowler, so it takes over the game while Maze stops my Chrono.
10. silkster: Taiga, Granger Guildmage, Chronomaton, Mogg Fanatic WL
OTP I open with Therapist. You have to Fanatic it, or it takes your Guildmage. Then I drop Chrono. If you make Chrono, I Prowler it, and my Chrono grows too fast. If you make Guildmage, I grow Chrono out of ping range and win that way.
OTD you open with Guildmage. I have to Prowler it. Then you drop Chrono. If I drop mine, you Fanatic it. If I wait, your Chrono will grow too fast and win anyway.
Total: 35 points
7. FTW: Swamp, Fourth Bridge Prowler, Mishra's Factory, Mesmeric Fiend
1. Asthereal (TO): OTP I play nothing on turn 1. If you play Therapist, I play Fiend taking Prowler, but then you can discard my Prowler and resolve Chrono. I have other lines, but none stop Chrono. OTD is worse. LL 0-6
2. alphastryk: I can't stop T1 Golem but I can draw with Mishra's Factory + 1/1. DD 2-2
3. Reeplcheep: OTP Mesmeric Fiend takes Druid and you just have a 2/1, which loses to my 2/2 Factory + 1/1 Prowler.
OTD is the same thing unless you play T2 Devoted Druid. If so, Fiend takes Vizier and I beat down with a 1/1 every turn. If you block with Druid, Prowler kills it. WW 6-0
4. Wrath of Pie: OTP I play T2 Fiend taking Bonecrusher Giant. If you play Mayor, Prowler kills it before it does anything.
OTD if you play T2 Mayor, Prowler has to kill it, then you get out Bonecrusher Giant before I can exile it. But the 4/3 still draws with Factory + 1/1. WD 4-1
5. dte: Mesmeric Fiend takes Murderous Rider before you can use either side. Then I have 3 bodies to your 2 Mazes. WW 6-0
6. GoblinSmashmaster: OTP Fiend takes Giant. You play Magus. We stare with 1/1 + 1/1 vs Magus (if you trade, Factory stares at 4/3 Giant anyway).
OTD you can play something first. Fiend takes the other. If you played Giant, Factory draws with it. If you played Magus, same as OTP. DD 2-2
8. PJim: Edit: I can't beat Lupines if you save Ballista to trade with Fiend. LL 0-6
9. RoosterCocoa: Prowler kills Swarm Shambler, but I can't stop Utopia Mycon. Maze can hold off my Factory and then my other creatures awkwardly can't get through Mycon. LL 0-6
10. silkster: If you ever play Chrono, I kill it with Prowler. But your other 2 1/1 pingers can't actually get through Factory, so we draw. DD 2-2
22 points (5 wins, 7 draws, 6 loss)
Nice deck. I had a feeling Swamp+Fourth Bridge Prowler would be strong this round, but you found the better Prowler deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
Thanks. I was a little afraid of Lupine Prototype maybe dominating this round, which would make my choice a lot worse, but I felt this should be strong against most other strategies.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
Utopia Mycon is a 0/2, so Fourth Bridge Prowler can't kill it with its etb. I think this means I win on the play, since you play Cabal Therapist, I play Utopia Mycon, and then I can hold off Chronomaton with Maze of Ith and block Fourth Bridge Prowler with Utopia Mycon so I eventually make enough tokens with Utopia Mycon to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
8. PJim: Ancient Tomb, Walking Ballista, Lupine Prototype, Lupine Prototype
Felt a touch risky taking a 0-6 against turn 1 Magus, even with last week's basic heavy format, but that gamble hasn't hurt me.
vs
1. Asthereal (TO): Swamp, Cabal Therapist, Fourth Bridge Prowler, Chronomaton / 6-0, Ballista trades for Therapist, and 2 Prototypes race.
2. alphastryk: Crystal Vein, Elvish Spirit Guide, Elvish Spirit Guide, Lodestone Golem / 6-0, Not a good matchup for Golem.
3. Reeplcheep: Devoted Druid, Vizier of Remedies, Savannah, Crawling Barrens / 6-0, Ballista kills Vizier and I have a blocker.
4. Wrath of Pie: Taiga, Ancient Tomb, Mayor of Avabruck, Bonecrusher Giant / 6-0, If you play Mayor, Ballista kills it and wins. If not, I drop both 5/5s before Ballista, which wins any race.
5. dte: Maze of Ith, Maze of Ith, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Murderous Rider / 0-6, Very nice deck.
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Ancient Tomb, Kazandu Refuge, Magus of the Moon, Bonecrusher Giant / 3-3, OTP I can drop both Prototypes before Magus, then drop Ballista at 0.
7. FTW: Swamp, Fourth Bridge Prowler, Mishra's Factory, Mesmeric Fiend / 6-0, Fiend might steal a Prototype, but Ballista trades to get it back. (You may be forgetting the difference between Fiend and Thought-Knot Seer)
9. RoosterCocoa: Pendelhaven, Maze of Ith, Swarm Shambler, Utopia Mycon / 6-0, Ballista trades for Shambler, leaving you with a 1/1 and a 1/1 every three turns vs a 5/5 attacker and a 5/5 blocker. Believe I win that.
10. silkster: Taiga, Granger Guildmage, Chronomaton, Mogg Fanatic / 6-0, If you play Chrono before my 5/5s are down, I drop Ballista to trade for it. If not, I have to drop it to attack, but it'll be too late for Chrono to grow in time to challenge the 5/5s.
EDIT: Right. Let me check. (Did some math.) Looks like you're right.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoosterCocoa
9. RoosterCocoa: Pendelhaven, Maze of Ith, Swarm Shambler, Utopia Mycon
1. Asthereal (TO): Swamp, Cabal Therapist, Fourth Bridge Prowler, Chronomaton
I can always get Utopia Mycon into play and then stall with Maze of Ith long enough to win with 1/1 tokens. WW
2. alphastryk: Crystal Vein, Elvish Spirit Guide, Elvish Spirit Guide, Lodestone Golem
OTP I play a Swarm Shambler and hold Lodestone Golem off with Maze of Ith. Swarm Shamber eventually gets large enough to attack and win. OTD you play Lodestone Golem so I can't play creatures, but I can hold it off forever with Maze of Ith. WD
3. Reeplcheep: Devoted Druid, Vizier of Remedies, Savannah, Crawling Barrens
I can hold off Crawling Barrens with Maze of Ith, and eventually get enough 1/1s from Utopia Mycon to win. If you try to attack with Vizier of Remedies, I block and trade with Swarm Shambler, so that doesn't help you. WW
4. Wrath of Pie: Taiga, Ancient Tomb, Mayor of Avabruck, Bonecrusher Giant
I can't beat a flipped Mayor of Avabruck. LL
5. dte: Maze of Ith, Maze of Ith, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Murderous Rider
You can never win because I have Maze of Ith, so you aim for a draw. I play Swarm Shambler, and grow it until it is a 20/20. If you use Swift End to kill it, then I can play Utopia Mycon and eventually get enough tokens to kill you in one attack. If you save Swift End, then once Swarm Shambler is a 20/20 I attack and force you to tap a Maze of Ith, and then play Utopia Mycon. You only have 2 untapped lands, so you can't play Swift End until your turn. On your turn, if you Swift End the Swarm Shambler, I eventually make enough 1/1s to win in one attack. If you Swift End the Utopia Mycon, then both of your Mazes are tapped so I win on my next turn by attacking with a 20/20 Swarm Shambler. WW
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Ancient Tomb, Kazandu Refuge, Magus of the Moon, Bonecrusher Giant
I'm too slow to kill both creatures with tokens on the play, and don't get to keep any creatures on the draw. LL
7. FTW: Swamp, Fourth Bridge Prowler, Mishra's Factory, Mesmeric Fiend
I always play Utopia Mycon first so Mesmeric Fiend can only take Swarm Shambler. I use Maze of Ith each turn to stop Mishra's Factory from attacking, and block one of your 1/1s with Utopia Mycon, which gives me enough time to produce 1/1 tokens to stall and eventually kill you. WW
8. PJim: Ancient Tomb, Walking Ballista, Lupine Prototype, Lupine Prototype
Walking Ballista kills my Swarm Shambler, and Utopia Mycon is too slow at producing tokens to kill a Lupine Prototype. LL
10. silkster: Taiga, Granger Guildmage, Chronomaton, Mogg Fanatic
OTP I play Swarm Shambler. If you don't play Mogg Fanatic and sacrifice it to kill Swarm Shambler, then I will immediately grow Swarm Shambler and you can't beat that, so you play Mogg Fanatic and sacrifice it to kill Swarm Shambler. I then play Utopia Mycon. I can hold off Chronomaton with Maze of Ith, and can block Granger Guildmage with Utopia Mycon, so I can build up an arbitrary number of spore counters on Utopia Mycon. Once I have enough counters to create an arbitrarily large number of 1/1 tokens, I make them all at the end of your turn and kill you in one attack. OTD I can't force you to sacrifice Mogg Fanatic with Swarm Shambler, so instead I start with Utopia Mycon. On your turn 1 you play Granger Guildmage to prevent me from playing Swarm Shambler, on your turn 2 you play Mogg Fanatic, and on your turn 3 you play Chronomaton and force through 2 damage to me by attacking with Chronomaton and Mogg Fanatic on your turns 3 and 4. On my turn 4 I get a 1/1 token, and since I have Pendlehaven untapped you can't kill it with Granger Guildmage since I will pump it in response. If you attack with Mogg Fanatic, I will trade the token for it, so you can't force through more damage by attacking. This lets me stall and execute the same strategy I used OTP to win. If you try to kill me with Granger Guildmage's ability, this is slow enough and brings your life total low enough that I can create enough tokens with Utopia Mycon at the end of your turn to kill you. WW
11W 1D 6L = 34
Thallid was surprisingly good last round, but I was worried about people bringing ways to deal 1 damage so I went with Utopia Mycon instead. It seems to have been a good choice.
GoblinMaxxmaster Results for Round 1/1s
1. Asthereal (TO): Swamp, Cabal Therapist, Fourth Bridge Prowler, Chronomaton
Therapist :( 0-6
2. alphastryk: Crystal Vein, Elvish Spirit Guide, Elvish Spirit Guide, Lodestone Golem
X/3 :( 0-6
3. Reeplcheep: Devoted Druid, Vizier of Remedies, Savannah, Crawling Barrens
Magus stomp! 6-0
4. Wrath of Pie: Taiga, Ancient Tomb, Mayor of Avabruck, Bonecrusher Giant
Giant stare 2-2
5. dte: Maze of Ith, Maze of Ith, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Murderous Rider
Magus stomp! 6-0
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Ancient Tomb, Kazandu Refuge, Magus of the Moon, Bonecrusher Giant
That's me taking maxx! deck
7. FTW: Swamp, Fourth Bridge Prowler, Mishra's Factory, Mesmeric Fiend
Giant stare 1-4
8. PJim: Ancient Tomb, Walking Ballista, Lupine Prototype, Lupine Prototype
Magus stomp! 3-3
9. RoosterCocoa: Pendelhaven, Maze of Ith, Swarm Shambler, Utopia Mycon
Magus stomp! 6-0
10. silkster: Taiga, Granger Guildmage, Chronomaton, Mogg Fanatic
Giant stomp! 6-0
Total: 30 points
4. Wrath of Pie: Taiga, Ancient Tomb, Mayor of Avabruck, Bonecrusher Giant
1. Asthereal (TO): Swamp, Cabal Therapist, Fourth Bridge Prowler, Chronomaton LL
2. alphastryk: Crystal Vein, Elvish Spirit Guide, Elvish Spirit Guide, Lodestone Golem WW
3. Reeplcheep: Devoted Druid, Vizier of Remedies, Savannah, Crawling Barrens WW
5. dte: Maze of Ith, Maze of Ith, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Murderous Rider DD - You have the issue of lacking a secondary threat to force the play into Swift End, so I expect winning to be difficult for you.
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Ancient Tomb, Kazandu Refuge, Magus of the Moon, Bonecrusher Giant DD
7. FTW: Swamp, Fourth Bridge Prowler, Mishra's Factory, Mesmeric Fiend DL
8. PJim: Ancient Tomb, Walking Ballista, Lupine Prototype, Lupine Prototype LL
9. RoosterCocoa: Pendelhaven, Maze of Ith, Swarm Shambler, Utopia Mycon LL
10. silkster: Taiga, Granger Guildmage, Chronomaton, Mogg Fanatic LL
4w5d = 17 points
Politics failed me again! I think I scored a bit better against Thanksgiving food though, so that's nice.
Sorry everyone, 4CB completely slipped my mind this week due to the US Thanksgiving holiday. I should be around for next week.
3. Reeplcheep: Devoted Druid, Vizier of Remedies, Savannah, Crawling Barrens t3 combo kill now that magus is less playable. It still loses to most other things though.
1. Asthereal (TO): Swamp, Cabal Therapist, Fourth Bridge Prowler, Chronomaton LL
2. alphastryk: Crystal Vein, Elvish Spirit Guide, Elvish Spirit Guide, Lodestone Golem I can beat t2 sphere but not t1. LL
4. Wrath of Pie: Taiga, Ancient Tomb, Mayor of Avabruck, Bonecrusher Giant crush my Druid LL
5. dte: Maze of Ith, Maze of Ith, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Murderous Rider DD if you play rider I have an infinitely big blocker. So we stare.
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Ancient Tomb, Kazandu Refuge, Magus of the Moon, Bonecrusher Giant Magus and x/2 removal LL
7. FTW: Swamp, Fourth Bridge Prowler, Mishra's Factory, Mesmeric Fiend T2 discard beats t3 combo. LL
8. PJim: Ancient Tomb, Walking Ballista, Lupine Prototype, Lupine Prototype I can untap druid in response to the ping of ballista. But you can always chump. LL
9. RoosterCocoa: Pendelhaven, Maze of Ith, Swarm Shambler, Utopia Mycon Maze LL
10. silkster: Taiga, Granger Guildmage, Chronomaton, Mogg Fanatic I can beat x/1 removal. But you can chump in that case. LL.
0 W 2 D 16 L. I am pretty sure non-functional decks have gotten more points.
Salty take: pre-banning tabernacle but not maze of ith is very inconsistent. It should be both or neither.
Indeed. In insight, I should probably have exchanged one of the mazes with a nexus, or simply play PJIM's deck :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie
1. Asthereal (TO): Swamp, Cabal Therapist, Fourth Bridge Prowler, Chronomaton
2-2
2
2. alphastryk: Crystal Vein, Elvish Spirit Guide, Elvish Spirit Guide, Lodestone Golem
2-2
4
3. Reeplcheep: Devoted Druid, Vizier of Remedies, Savannah, Crawling Barrens
6-0. You make a big blocker, I attack. If you block, Rider dies and I can swift end druid. If you don't, you lose after 10 turns.
10
4. Wrath of Pie: Taiga, Ancient Tomb, Mayor of Avabruck, Bonecrusher Giant
2-2
12
5. dte: Maze of Ith, Maze of Ith, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Murderous Rider
Me, not playing proactive at all.
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Ancient Tomb, Kazandu Refuge, Magus of the Moon, Bonecrusher Giant
0-6. Magus smash!
7. FTW: Swamp, Fourth Bridge Prowler, Mishra's Factory, Mesmeric Fiend
0-6
8. PJim: Ancient Tomb, Walking Ballista, Lupine Prototype, Lupine Prototype
6-0. The only MU I had thought about. I expected to see many more of those, and of some hating on it!
18
9. RoosterCocoa: Pendelhaven, Maze of Ith, Swarm Shambler, Utopia Mycon
0-6. The better maze deck. I must admit I am impressed by mycon.
10. silkster: Taiga, Granger Guildmage, Chronomaton, Mogg Fanatic
6-0. If you do not play anything, I play a rider. maze holds chrono, if you block I swift end.
24
I find Maze is only oppressive with Tabernacle. Maze can only answer 1 threat. It's worse than removal against anything that can go wide (Mayor, Thallid). Tabernacle is very good against going wide, but a single creature + land can get through. Both combined is hard to play around.
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Maze of Ith, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Murderous Rider would have scored 14 more points than dte's deck (38), only missing the 6-0 against discard and Magus. With just double Maze it loses steam.
Edit:I can't actually win when I go first. I do get to Mesmeric Fiend your Giant before you can play anything, but my 2 1/1s awkwardly stare at your Gray Ogre. DD 2-2Quote:
Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster
(If I Mesmeric Fiend your Magus instead, you Stomp the Fiend, then play both Giant and Magus and win).
Nexus instead of Tabernacle would have been legal and even better (+20)Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
Not quite as many. I think Tabernacle's worth more.Quote:
Originally Posted by dte
You still draw Wrath. If Inkmoth attacks, Stomp kills it (-1 land) then Mayor wins.
Rooster can Maze Inkmoth while growing Shambler and do the same line. If you play out both creatures and attack with both to overwhelm Maze, he can Maze Rider 9 times (taking 9 Infect) while growing Shambler or going wide with Mycon. Then he can switch to Mazing Inkmoth. Then if Rider keeps attacking, you lose the race. If Rider stays back, Mycon goes wide without killing it.
Against me you can Maze Factory and race 1 Infect vs 2 1/1s, it's close. On my play I think I'd still win because you have to choose between attacking sooner or Mazing more attacks, giving me tempo.
Tabernacle would just stop these wide attacks. Tabernacle also gives you the ability to sacrifice Rider, while Rider can get stuck on board otherwise.
Rider would win the race here, mazing it after damage to gain 4 life per turn. It takes 7 tokens to be on par with Rider on a race (each player losing 2 life / turn). After 9 turns of infect, it is only 3. 10 turns later, when rider is threatening lethal, it is only 6, so Rider's life probably over 20.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
Anyway, I did not think of playing inkmoth :/
Rider can't race the tokens. 1/1 + Pendelhaven (2/3) blocks Rider forever without either dying. Eventually there are enough tokens to catch up with the lifegain. I only bring it up because the deck (+ Inkmoth) is probably still legal next round.Quote:
Originally Posted by dte
Double Maze made sense if you were worried about double Lupine decks, but that saw little play.
I had the same idea with Mishra's Factory, but I expected Magus of the Moon to be far more prevalent than it was.Quote:
Originally Posted by dte
You are right about the race indeed, pendlehaven is all it takes. But not sure the deck would still be legal, Roostercocoa made a good work with maze.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
PJIM's deck was on my radar, but a single maze is enough to beat it.
There were a few disagreements, which I took the liberty of solving. They're still marked in the spreadsheet though.
Assuming my solutions here are correct, assuming the results of silk and alphastryk are correct and that I solved their h2h correctly...
Here's very preliminary results for round 3:
1. PJim: 45 - 5
2. Asthereal (TO): 35 - 3,9
3. RoosterCocoa: 34 - 3,8
4. GoblinSmashmaster: 31 - 3,4
5. dte: 24 - 2,7
6. Wrath of Pie: 23 - 2,6
6. silkster: 23 - 2,6
8. FTW: 22 - 2,4
9. alphastryk: 17 - 1,9
10. Reeplcheep: 0 - 0
Which would lead to these bannings:
Ancient Tomb
Cabal Therapist
Chronomaton
Fourth Bridge Prowler
Lupine Prototype
Maze of Ith
Pendelhaven
Swarm Shambler
Utopia Mycon
Walking Ballista
Season points still don't get transferred to the table tab in the doc, but it looks like PJim takes the lead with this strong performance.
PS. If anybody made a change in order to make the lookup from last round work, please let me know what you did. My excel skills are... bad. :wink:
Totally forgot to come back and check out the results with the holiday here in the US but what everyone calculated makes sense for me.
I think I fixed the spreadsheet by copying one of the working cells and pasting it across the whole table to re-apply the formula.
I though the cells were all the same LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by alphastryk
Thanks to alphastryk fixing the doc, we now have standings after round 3:
1. PJim: 11,8
2. silkster: 10,4
3. dte: 10,2
4. RoosterCocoa: 10
5. FTW: 9,6
6. Wrath of Pie: 9,4
7. Asthereal (TO): 8,7
8. Reeplcheep: 6,2
9. GoblinSmashmaster: 5,6
10. alphastryk: 5,4
11. maxx!: 5
So as mentioned, PJim takes the lead, followed by a pack of 5 all within 1 point of each other.
Behind that pack, I seem to be a bit in no man's land.
Let's lock in the bannings mentioned earlier and get round 4 going.
ROUND 4 OF SEASON 11: LEGACY CREATURES & LANDS BANNATHON has started.
I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 4, so you can start sending me your decks.
DEADLINE: Wednesday the 1st of December at 11:00AM Central European Time.
(That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)
PLEASE NOTE:
The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows: Urborg, Quicksand, Daughti Slayer, Black Knight.
So with card tags around each card, and not above eachother, and with your Username and 4CB S11R04 in the topic.
Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. You'll find it in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet.
After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.
Happy deckbuilding! :smile:
Looks like we're complete on the deadline. :smile:
DECKS FOR ROUND 4 OF SEASON 11: Legacy Creatures & Lands Bannathon
1. Asthereal (TO): Hickory Woodlot, Crystal Vein, Lodestone Golem, Mayor of Avabruck
2. alphastryk: Crystal Vein, Elvish Spirit Guide, Wild Cantor, Magus of the Moon
3. Reeplcheep: Blazing Rootwalla, Tireless Tribe, Vengevine, Plateau
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Eye of Ugin, Crystal Vein, Thought-Knot Seer, Endless One
5. FTW: Hickory Woodlot, Urza's Saga, Ramunap Excavator, Mayor of Avabruck
6. PJim: Peat Bog, Crystal Vein, Rankle, Master of Pranks, Nether Spirit
7. dte: Emrakul, the aeons torn, Howltooth Hollow, Geier Reach Sanitarium, Peat Bog
8. Wrath of Pie: Dreadship Reef, Creeping Tar Pit, Gilded Drake, Murderous Rider
9. RoosterCocoa: Swamp, Havenwood Battleground, Anurid Scavenger, Fume Spitter
10. maxx!: Swamp, Elvish Spirit Guide, Elvish Spirit Guide, Grist, the Hunger Tide
11. silkster: Sandstone Needle, Crystal Vein, Bonecrusher Giant, Boldwyr Heavyweights
Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
I'll create a tab for the round in our Google Spreadsheet, so you can enter your scores there as well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
6. PJim: Peat Bog, Crystal Vein, Rankle, Master of Pranks, Nether Spirit
vs
1. Asthereal (TO): Hickory Woodlot, Crystal Vein, Lodestone Golem, Mayor of Avabruck / 4-1, Rankle wins if it lands, which it will on the play, and forces turn 2 Golem on the draw. Turn 2 Golem locks out Mayor, so Nether Spirit can draw.
2. alphastryk: Crystal Vein, Elvish Spirit Guide, Wild Cantor, Magus of the Moon / 0-6, I was expecting a return to anti-Magus choices like in week 2. Hopefully you've gotten it banned this time.
3. Reeplcheep: Blazing Rootwalla, Tireless Tribe, Vengevine, Plateau / 4-1, Edit: Realised I do way better if I play Spirit on turn 2 and Rankle turn 3. Spirit kills any 1 toughness attackers if they exist, and holds off Vengevine if they don't. OTP there's not enough of a lead to hold Rankle back.
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Eye of Ugin, Crystal Vein, Thought-Knot Seer, Endless One / 3-3, Rankle wins OTP. Edit: T1 2/2, and T2 Seer on Spirit wins.
5. FTW: Hickory Woodlot, Urza's Saga, Ramunap Excavator, Mayor of Avabruck / 6-0, Rankle.
7. dte: Emrakul, the aeons torn, Howltooth Hollow, Geier Reach Sanitarium, Peat Bog / 0-6, Edit: Two Sanitarium activations without time between gets me.
8. Wrath of Pie: Dreadship Reef, Creeping Tar Pit, Gilded Drake, Murderous Rider / 6-0, I cast Nether Spirit, which races Tar Pit. If you ever cast Drake or Rider, Rankle can come in and force you to discard the other.
9. RoosterCocoa: Swamp, Havenwood Battleground, Anurid Scavenger, Fume Spitter / 6-0, Rankle.
10. maxx!: Swamp, Elvish Spirit Guide, Elvish Spirit Guide, Grist, the Hunger Tide / 6-0, On your play, When Rankle lands Grist has 5 loyalty and has made 2 1/1s. Rankle knocks Grist to 2 and discards Spirit. If you don't kill him, he'll kill Grist and win easily. If you do, it'll be one 1/1 vs Nether Spirit.
11. silkster: Sandstone Needle, Crystal Vein, Bonecrusher Giant, Boldwyr Heavyweights / 6-0, Rankle.
41 points.