why do you play sulfur elemental ?? Againts what pairings its better Sulfur elemental than Knight of Reliquary or Burning-tree Shaman ?
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why do you play sulfur elemental ?? Againts what pairings its better Sulfur elemental than Knight of Reliquary or Burning-tree Shaman ?
The decks with Rhox War Monk and the decks with Mother of Runes. Not saying Sulfur Elemental is worth MDing, but it's pretty good against those two cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi
EDIT: + Steppe Lynx
Sulfur elemental also is good againts Elspeth tokens
It has its uses, yes. But these are all still narrow applications, more suited to a sideboard than the maindeck. Perhaps the question is "why's it in the main?" After all, Black doesn't just autoinclude Perish in its mainboard, and green critters are arguably more important overall in Legacy.
Hmm. Sulfur Elemental gives +1/-1 to Loam Lion and Pridemage, giving both enough power to take down Rhox War Monk. Seem interesting tech at the very least.
I got two questions:
1. In which meta is Steppe lynx better than Loam Lion
2. In which meta is Lightning Helix better than Fireblast?
Thing is, there's no such thing as a "Legacy Metagame". There are so many viable strategies, that it can only boil down as far as likely decks you'll face. But you'll never be able to pinpoint it unless your local scene has X players who you know to play X decks. Because there's so many different viable strategy, it comes down to being a skillful player more than bringing the right 75 to the tournament. From turn 1 there are decisions to be made taht'll affect the outcome of the entire game. Outside of eternal formats, one can't really make that claim.
Moving on, Lynx is good against midrange creature decks. He is a great turn 1 play, and lets you rip a land and still be in the game. Helix might be better in a fast agro environment with lots of Zoo and Goblins and Sligh and the like. Helix is more midrange burn/removal where Lynx is 20 dmg NAO oriented.
simple
Heavy control/combo. It's faster, but an ugly topdeck. Also bad on defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Windux
Heavy aggro, especially if you expect lots of the mirror. Lifegain is good in the mirror, and sacrificing lands is bad when games get drawn out.Quote:
2. In which meta is Lightning Helix better than Fireblast?
What is everyone's opinion on Elspeth? I feel like both her +1 abilities are good for the deck, with even greater attention to the +3/+3 flying ability. We play the best creatures, and are a damage oriented deck. If Elspeth's first impact on the game is sending a Wild Nacatl, Tarmogoyf, or Knight of the Reliquary in with +3/+3 and Evasion, I feel like that's just godlike. I'm speaking more in line with the Noble Hierarch "Big Zoo" deck, but I'm looking for feedback. What are your opinions on this? We rarely see Elspeth in the Zoo deck, but the Japanese seem to like it. She can win the game on her own, and can be cast on turn 3 with Hierarch's help. This deck controls the board/attack step like no other deck in Legacy. Does Elspeth further this deck's dominance in that department?
She's awesome if she resolves. Her pump-jump ability is excellent in this deck, her ability to churn out tokens provides the deck resilience after a sweeper (or chump blockers to deal with a fatty when behind), and her ultimate is just gravy. That being said, I'm not playing her because I don't really want to move towards big Zoo yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by troopatroop
I've been trying the "big zoo" list I posted on page 140. I really feel that Hierarch and Elspeth are great in a "zoo shell". Elspeth really seals the deal when it lands. I think that it compliments the attack strategy of zoo very well pumping your creatures, or creating blockers when you tap out attacking. It also helps after a firespout or wrath effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by troopatroop
The deck gets a bit more controlish but it feels good and legit.
@ troopatroop: I'm glad you like the approach, because I do too ;) I have read your comments here and in the naya sligh thread (some time ago) and I think you have a very good understanding about how aggro decks work.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant can work in Zoo. I've seen it played as a singleton in a couple top eight zoo lists this year. However, most lists avoid it. I think that four mana is the biggest problem. Zoo doesn't play a ton of lands and they are nearly all non-basic. With all the mana denail in this format, it is not easy to get the necessary mana for Elspeth. If you did play it, you could want it in a more mid-range version of zoo with 22 lands and access to basics. You certainly wouldn't play her in a deck that ran Fireblast.Quote:
Originally Posted by troopatroop
Here's a question for those pro- and opponents of Big Zoo:
given the good and bad matchups of traditional naya zoo, in which ways does big zoo improve and hurt said matches? Given the answer to that question, would a transitional sideboard cover those bases?
Big Zoo is obv better against fair decks like the mirror, but much worse against decks with bombs (natural order etc.) and any combo deck, cause of the reduced ability to race asap. If your meta is not infested with stuff like that, I would say Planeswalkers, Ranger of Eos and the likes, are pretty good to beat the fair decks.
What can I sideboard against Sneak Attach/SnT? I have a few of these in my meta and 2 slots in my boards. I've already got 4x Mindbreak Trap and 4x Faerie Macabre, along with 3 Grips and 2 StP. The biggest issue is Emrakul. Karakas seems good with KotR, but are there any other options?
I'm glad you brought this up, but I don't like your example. Natural Order needs a creature to Sac and we're pretty good at preventing that in the first place. But your point is valid, and warrants discussion. Fast Zoo has better combo matchups, decks that aren't looking to interact. A quick goldfish is better against those decks, but I don't think Big Zoo is without solutions. I'm going to try the slight blue splash with Hierarch and play Meddling Mage in the SB. He happens to be the BEST hate bear at the moment, pushing out Gaddock Teeg imo. With Mystical Tutor gone, combo players can't just tutor up an answer to him, and he hits EVERY deck that is going for something unfair. Life from the Loam, Natural Order, Charbelcher, Ad Nauseam, Show and Tell, Survival of the Fittest, Pernicious Deed, Hypergenesis, whatever. He also names STP against some decks, and that's really good imo. I think he adds alot out of the SB, especially against the decks that are faster than this one. The 2/2 body attatched with him also helps. I know I'm not going to convert many people over to running 1 trop and 1 volcanic, but do you see the appeal?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigar
If you don't want to play a quick goldfish style Zoo deck, why not just run Survival? Survival + Squee + Anger = 6 cards that will guarantee you a creature with haste every single turn. It also opens you up to more interesting sideboard options that you can tutor for.
Because SotF is mana intensive as hell and requires at least 4 mana dudes in your 60. One of the upsides about zoo is also it's consistency, so you don't wanna be jaming sucky topdecks into it, like birds of paradise, anger, squee, etc.
I think the best approach is to be playing the good one drops, the good burn, the good removal and then something like Ranger of Eos to reload and get you back into the game if your opponent stabilizes.
Meddling Mage is pretty good, especially since Mindbreak Trap got a lot worse due to Mystical Tutor getting banned. Running something like Meddling Mage + Negate in the SB is something I had decent success with.
@CorpT: I would love to run survival, but the main reason I never would is because I don't want to shell out money for a loyal retainers. Without the Loyal Retainers+Iona combo, I don't think survival is quite as good. Though I am curious as to how well vengevine might work in a survival zoo deck...
@Show and Tell combo decks: one thought that i have had recently regarding siding options against decks running Show and Tell, is to maybe run a couple of humilities in the board. They flip an Emrukul, you flip a humility. Ok so now all your guys are 1/1's, but you have way more of them, plus you have burn.
Additionally, instead of a blue splash for Meddling Mage, maybe a black splash for Diabolic Edict? Again, this is more for show and tell/sneak attack (not storm combo). Just a thought though. You could also throw confidant into the mix.
I own Retainer and didn't play him in my Survival Zoo deck at Columbus. IMO, the way to run Survival in Zoo is to just make it a Zoo deck with Survival thrown in. Don't try to add janky combos, just the 6 cards I suggested. If you start adding Iona/Retainer, you're going to get some really weak draws you don't want to see. With just Squee/Anger, the draws aren't as bad and actually usable without Survival. It could be that Iona/Retainer could be in the board, but MD, I think keeping it simple and just a Zoo deck with 6 extra cards is the way to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Damnosus