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I'm new to this deck, putting it together as my 3rd or 4th legacy deck just for the fun of it, and I haven't read the whole thread (yet), but has anyone thought about boarding dark confidants for the miracle matchup? They represent threats that immediately must be taken care of without you having to commit a huge part of your hand to the board. Also the black splash would probably include abrupt decays.
I'm honestly surprised at the amount of people severely tweaking their deck for the Miracle matchup. Sure, it seems pretty bad, but unless my meta was like 50% UW Miracles I wouldn't change one thing about my deck. I learned my lesson thoroughly at the last Legacy GP in Atlanta when I tweaked my deck so hard vs. Griselbrand and then got owned by RUG three times and never played against a single Griselbrand that day.
Lesson: Only tweak your deck when you absolutely know what you play against. Otherwise it is an exercise in futility.
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Originally Posted by Benjammn
Totally right. Though including Cavern of Souls, and adding black for Deathrite Shaman makes it very likely to add some Abrupt Decays side. So my version doesn't dramaticly change from the original.
I am finding Humility less usefull these days though.
As Chris Anderson stated, and he has been playing in the SCG opens lately, you are going to face miracle decks and if you want a chance to succeed in big tournaments you want a respectable match up against perhaps the most popular deck in the format (UW miracles was everywhere in the N.O. open this weekend). So yes were all trying to figure it out. Obviously if your meta is very light on this deck and you don't want to show up to big events then no worries. I dont think DR Shaman and some Decays in the SB is what does it (doesnt for me) so people are thinking outside the box.
Krosan Grip is better than Decay versus UW Miracles, since it kills their Top as well as their Counterbalance (+ Moat and Humility if you ever face that).
Given the fact, that the format is legacy, a dominating deck is about five to ten percent of the metagame of a large tournament? Why bother adapting our deck to UW Miracles, if we can simply win the other matchups? I don't get it. Honestly, even if you commit five to eight sideboard slots and make a few changes in the main to have a "better" matchup against UW Miracles, it still won't be good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollo
Edit: If you really want to go deep against UW Miracles, try Leyline of Lifeforce.
Seriously? Counterspells are not the problem! Those have been around longer than Elves. It is Terminus! How many times does this have to be said?Quote:
Originally Posted by flrn
I'm going to nitpick a little bit, but your statement makes no sense to me. Based on your suggestions, we should never tweak lists. We can never know what we'll face. We can have a pretty good idea, though. UW Miracles will be the number one or two deck at any large tournament you go to in the near future. If our worst match up is the most prominent deck at the tournament, then what does it take to warrant a change? Besides, the list I posted is not "severely tweaked". It is chrandersen's with -3 Priest, +2 Teeg, +1 Safekeeper, and 2 Deathrite replacing 2 Llanowar/Fyndhorn. The Priests are the flex spots in the deck, and Deathrite is a functional replacement for the mana dorks that also demands an StP, which is really good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjammn
Edit: I also forgot the Regal Force, somehow. That is supposed to be in my list.
And Krosan Grip is definitely great against Miracles. Gripping their Top is one of the biggest obstacles you can throw in their path. Grip is probably more important than Decay. That's probably true. I may have a case of "push the new shiny button". Black may not be necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigar
The reason elves wants to have Miracles be winnable is because it is another hurdle for the deck. Combo like Dredge, Reanimator, and Storm decks were already very bad match ups for elves. Now we have another deck that sees a lot of play that is a bad match up. At a big tourney you are bound to play against said combo decks and Miracle a good third of your matches, combined. And if you lose a third of your matches what happens to you getting top eight?
So we know we can't make combo a favorable matchup. So in order to have elves be a competitive deck we are trying to make Miracles matchup favorable.
So no thoughts about the Dark Confidant plan?
I was also kinda "hooked" when I saw Abrupt Decay, but I think Krosan Grip is the strongest card you can have in the SB against Miracles.Quote:
Originally Posted by igri_is_a_bk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigar
Well, yes and no.
If they leave a Vendillion Clique on top, they will be able to counter your Krosan Grip. And if they don't see any black of ours, they should be doing that probably.
Why don't you guys just splash white? SB in 4 Thorn and/or 4 Thalia? Control and combo are will have fits when their spells cost 1-3 more to cast.
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Originally Posted by Greenpoe
It slows them down, that true. But it doesn't blow them out like Terminus blows us out.
I think most Elves! sideboard have Thorn of Amethyst in it.
Mine has 2Thorn, one Thalia. I saw a Thalia in my latest UW miracle game2. But it didn't
help much other then catching a 2 mana StP.
Edit: against combo it's really good though.
Unless your opponent is a real JEDI MASTER and can read you like an open book, there's always an opportunity to Krosan Grip their Counterbalance, often times in their upkeep, before they enter their draw step.Quote:
Originally Posted by TraxDaMax
The big nod though, is being able to nuke their Top, making us safe against Terminus in our own turn = BIG deal!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigar
Yeah, but if they are just good players they might actually know what works againt their hardlock.
Still, pretty legit aswer.
I just had a recycled idea.What about winter orb vs them? Not sure if its worth the slots, but I'll test it when I get the chance.
Our Goblins matchup is HORRIBLE! Game 1 is fine if they don't land Sharpshooter, but game 2 and 3 are close to impossible due to Pyrokinesis! :/
I think Goblins is a very easy match up...I don't know if I ever lost actually
Like Sigar, I have some trouble against Goblins, too.
Especially because around here Goblin players tend to keep a MD Sharpshooter, so G1 starts already with a big threat, even before the Pyrokinesis come in.
QUESTION:
Against Goblins, do you think it is a good idea to GSZ for Wirewood Symbiote and try to be more protective before doing something else?
Or do you always try to combo as soon as possible?
(I find myself constantly divided between these two options.)
Sharpshooter isn't that big of a problem. He doesn't come online till at least turn 4. The only way it happens earlier is if you let them hit you with a Lackey. That being said, win the game before then, or build a board prescence that doesn't lose to him.
Pyrokinesis is a pretty big game post-board I'll grant, but as of now, I'm still on the Intuition/Vengevine plan, which mitigates the power of that card by A LOT.
Goblins is actually a match up I love to see. They have no way to counter or hand disrupt Glimpse. Sure Pyrokinesis can be a beating but Elves can recover from sweepers so unless Goblins has a really nutty hand its been fine. If your really seeing a lot of Gobbos with Sharpshooter in your meta you could always run a lord somewhere in your 75 for GSZ.