[Deck] Dragon Stompy

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Originally Posted by Jelmerz77

You play 2 Magus main, if you are a prison deck you should at least play 8 Moon effects. (Unless you can tutor for 1 like in most painter lists)
I have not seen Walking Ballista a staple in any lists and it doesn't look synergetic with the other cards in your list. I might even say that Hangarback Walker would have more synergy.

And why Snowcovered Mountains? Just for flavor or is there a reason behind it?

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I originally ran the list with 3 magus main but felt that I was seeing too many of them.

I tested walking Ballista out when I was still missing a few pieces and every time I've played it it's been useful, it can be a mini sweeper/instant answer, it can put pressure on the opponent with swinging and/or just pinging them.

I opted for snow-covered Mountains just to distract the opponent.

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

I've never been happy whenever I've tried out Spellskite. The Pithing Needles should arguably be Phyrexian Revokers.
But definitely 4 Maguses in the maindeck.

Here's some 'stock' lists for reference:
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=23186&iddeck=179652
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=23117&iddeck=179094
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=23067&iddeck=178510
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=22970&iddeck=177715

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I'm iffy on spellskite as well but still testing it out.

My main concerns with revoker are that it can't target lands and it's a creature with 1 toughness (a nonbo with fiery confluence) to sweep a board.

Thanks for the stock lists.

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Originally Posted by jandax

I too have played painter for years and maybe that's what i saw in your list. You're wanting to spread yourself out more to cover more bases, but heed my advice and learn to play a stock list. There's several different flavours of the deck, i like goblin the best. Suit your style.

In essence lose the walking ballista for magus 7 and 8, move some number bridges to the side for extra copies of confluence, trade koth for chandra, cavern can go in lieu of basics or cavern of souls. Then you pretty much have a stock maindeck. Do you know what your bad match ups are? Base your side board around that, not what you expect to see. This is a hate.dec so your linear strategy guides decision making on which hands to keep and what cards to take out to side in. I believe fully that this deck needs to be able to play control as well as beat down in any given game.

Going back to your list,if you're just picking this deck up, go stock your first few tournaments. And take a stack of sideboard cards with you to the tournament and scout it out and fill in your side board registration on the spot. Hate 'en out bro

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I believe that my playstyle is very prison oriented.

So far I've done about 3/4 fnms with the deck and I'm going 2-1 every time. My losses coming when I'm mana screwed or against a more experienced prison pilot (he runs a mono white prison deck with humility). I am concerned about enchantments because I have no way of removing them.

I'm usually playing as the control player haha.

Thanks all for the suggestions, feedback and advice. :)

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Originally Posted by Valleysdai

My main concern with revoker are that it can't target lands.

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What lands are you trying to Needle?
Usually eight Blood Moons in the main deck are enough to let you worry about other things. :wink:

Opponent 'outs' to Blood Moon other than basic lands are often Mox Diamond, Lotus Petal, or Lion's Eye Diamond.
Revoker shuts those down while Needle fails. Plus CMC 1 is a nonbo with Chalice of the Void.

No way to remove white enchantments you say?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...130b20ead4.jpg

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Yeah... but Anarchy is a pretty narrow card. In any 50+ player tournament I'd suggest several other cards before Anarchy for the sideboard.
But if a 16 player meta warrants including it, go nuts! (for what it's worth, Chaos Warp is probably the better card for the White Stax matchup)

No way, anarchy pulls work against dnt. It's not for destroying moat or humility. I run two specifically for that match up.

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Originally Posted by jandax

No way, anarchy pulls work against dnt. It's not for destroying moat or humility. I run two specifically for that match up.

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Why suggest it to Valleysdai as a solution to Most and Humility then? :eyebrow:

It's also hit or miss against D&T. The first problem is casting it against a deck that is known for mana-denial. Thalia adds to the problem. Finally it does nothing against the artifacts that give the white weenies teeth. Germ tokens are black and Revokers can carry weapons.

Anarchy has been a solid inclusion to the board for me. Doesn't have to work for everyone.

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Originally Posted by jandax

Anarchy has been a solid inclusion to the board for me. Doesn't have to work for everyone.

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I think the point in time where we needed Anarchy ended when we were blessed with Fiery Confluence. Until Enchantress or Stax return in large amounts, Anarchy is usually unnecessary. If your meta is inundated with Death and Taxes, this is likely okay, but I'd personally prefer to dedicate slots to more flexible options.

One point that i think needs to be remarked is to diversify the casting cost of your removal spells. If you already run 3-4 chandras and 3-4 fiery confluence in your main deck,and you then bring in anarchy, basically you likely lose on the spot to sanctum prelate naming four.
That's why i think better options against death and taxes are: pyrokinesis, sudden demise, sudden shock, kozilek's return (in this order in my opinion, but they are all good).

I likewise prefer Pyrokinesis for its application vs Elves and Grixis Delver decks.

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Originally Posted by LeoCop 90

One point that i think needs to be remarked is to diversify the casting cost of your removal spells. If you already run 3-4 chandras and 3-4 fiery confluence in your main deck,and you then bring in anarchy, basically you likely lose on the spot to sanctum prelate naming four.
That's why i think better options against death and taxes are: pyrokinesis, sudden demise, sudden shock, kozilek's return (in this order in my opinion, but they are all good).

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With Infect on the low and Miracles gone, I find Sudden Shock to not be worth the slot. Kozilek's Return is too much collateral damage for me though. Pyrokinesis is just the overall best for me since it allows us to get control of the board without sacrificing development.

Have not played with pyrokenisis in this deck, is it really worth the negative CA? Legit question. Always open to good ideas

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Originally Posted by jandax

Have not played with pyrokenisis in this deck, is it really worth the negative CA? Legit question. Always open to good ideas

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Piggybacking off jandax's question for those who advocate Pyrokinesis...

Do you side out Chrome Mox when you bring in Kinesis?
Or is the swing in board presence enough to make up for the card disadvantage?

How many do you keep in the board?
Which matchups do they shine?

Is it really stronger than Sudden Demise?

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

Piggybacking off jandax's question for those who advocate Pyrokinesis...

Do you side out Chrome Mox when you bring in Kinesis?
Or is the swing in board presence enough to make up for the card disadvantage?

How many do you keep in the board?
Which matchups do they shine?

Is it really stronger than Sudden Demise?

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I never picked up this deck for its card advantage. It's about the tempo play while still deploying more threats. Against deck with DRS, we primarily need to kill the doctor and lockout colored mana generators. I typically utilize dedundant Moon effects to cast Pyrokinesis.

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

Piggybacking off jandax's question for those who advocate Pyrokinesis...

Do you side out Chrome Mox when you bring in Kinesis?
Or is the swing in board presence enough to make up for the card disadvantage?

How many do you keep in the board?
Which matchups do they shine?

Is it really stronger than Sudden Demise?

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Basically, how do decks deal with having card disadvantage from Force of Will? You just accept that the value of the card is worth more than the 2 cards you are spending.

And it's stronger than Sudden Demise in most cases. Sure, if you are facing down 16 1/1 goblins, you want demise, but overall, in most normal games, being able to pick off 2+ guys at instant speed for zero mana is a godsend in the matchups were you bring it in.

Card advantage is just not a thing I have ever cared about in this deck. Sure you lose matches where you spend a pile of cards only to have your two relevant cards answered, but if you could routinely win those games, the deck would be banned. Those are the games you are "supposed" to lose and understanding that makes you win more games overall.

After reading through the links of stock lists that ACE/Homebrew posted I have several questions.

1. What's the verdict on Koth and quicksmith rebel? I'm debating on cutting Koth and rebel is one of the cards I'm looking at.

2. What's your thoughts on the best number for chandra, trinisphere and chrome mox in the main?

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by ZTurgeon

How do decks deal with having card disadvantage from Force of Will?

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Well, we already have our own FoW (in terms of card disadvantage) in the form of Chrome Mox. But still I understand the point you and Koby are making: If [insert card] is likely to win you the game, the card disadvantage is irrelevant.


Regarding Valleysdai's questions:
1. I haven't tried Quicksmith Rebel, so I'm no help there. Just be aware that if you tap Trinisphere, it 'turns off'. Koth is a strong card, but has been somewhat outclassed recently by Chandra.
2. 4, 3 (with 1 in sideboard), 4

Hi, everyone,

I've been playing R/W Painter for the past year, but since Sensei's Divining Top got banned, I've started brewing with Chalice of the Void and Blood Moon again.

I went 3-1 at my local Legacy weekly with this greasy pile.

Mono-Red Chalice Moon

4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
1 Crystal Ball
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Imperial Recruiter
1 Spellskite
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Blood Moon
4 Sudden Shock
12 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Sideboard:
4 Trinisphere
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Avalanche Riders
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Manic Vandal
1 Goblin Welder
4 Fiery Confluence


Round One: Dredge
Game One (Win): Turn one Chalice of the Void on one, then turn two Chalice of the Void on zero and Ensnaring Bridge.
Game Two (Loss): Stuck on two mana and got dredged.
Game Three (Win): Turn one Trinisphere gets there.
1-0

Round Two: Tezzeret
Game One (Loss): Got Dacked.
Game Two (Win): Turn one Blood Moon, then Fiery Confluence their signet.
Game Three (Win): Once again, Blood Moon and Fiery Confluence are strong.
2-0

Round Three: Storm
Game One (Win): Turn one Chalice of the Void, then turn two Goblin Rabblemaster.
Game Two (Loss): I mull to five and keep a no-lander with Simian Spirit Guide, Chrome Mox, Magus of the Moon, red card, and Trinisphere. Opponent fetches an Underground Sea and casts Duress targeting my Trinisphere. I rip a Mountain and stick Magus of the Moon for the win.
3-0

Round Four: Death & Taxes
Game One (Loss): Turn one Chalice of the Void doesn't cut it.
Game Two (Loss): Avalanche Riders kept them off of double white under a Moon, but I still couldn't get there.
3-1

I've been having a lot of fun brewing with this deck again. Fiery Confluence and Chandra, Torch of Defiance have been great additions! I think I might want another copy of Avalanche Riders or maybe even a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker in the 75. As always, feedback is greatly appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

Regarding Valleysdai's questions:
1. I haven't tried Quicksmith Rebel, so I'm no help there. Just be aware that if you tap Trinisphere, it 'turns off'. Koth is a strong card, but has been somewhat outclassed recently by Chandra.

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I think the choice for good Beaters that are ok behind a bridge and might survive a confluence there are:

Pia and Kiran Nalaar - The generic best choice and 4 power over 3 bodies = 3 blockers / quite mana intense to ping / half of it dies to Confluence for 1 and the other half to Confluence for 2

Quicksmith Rebel - 3 power on 1 card so mediocre on defense / probably best pinger especially late game when you have a Chrome Mox or Bridge lying around / Dies to Confluence for 2

Koth of the Hammerl - Absolutely worthless on defense / after 2 turns it iis the best pinger behind a bridge / Does not die to Confluence

Of those choices I would go with the consensus 2 Pia & Kiran and 1 Quicksmith. Due to that it might be called for to play some number of Great Furnace.

On another note:
What do you guys think about the Sin Prodder. I know he is an ok Pinger behind a bridge, but the effect is quite lackluster, he dies to anything and 3/2 for 3 is nothing fancy. Now that the deck is much more about hiding behind prison elements I would rather play some Revokers or anything a bit more synergistic and defensive, especially as now everyone is playing Deathrite Shaman.

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

2. 4, 3 (with 1 in sideboard), 4

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4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance - No doubt here. It's the by far best card in the deck and makes this deck much more consistent than earlier creature based Dragon Stompy versions

3 Trinisphere - Your ticket to resolving your spells

4 Chrome Mox - For the T1 Moon effects

I'm having trouble understanding how the versions of this deck cutting virtually all aggressive elements for Bridge main are able to win against decks that can counter, remove, or ignore the lock pieces. Especially ones that can construct a lethal board state and then remove Bridge. I disagree with Bridge main, as much like Trinisphere, there are several decks that it does little to nothing against. But that's just my philosophy, and I'm sure there's reasoning behind it. But when boarding it in against, say, a Griselbrand deck, I don't see how you still win. You can chip damage with Chandra and Pia, but you can't attack even if you legally could since their block will undo all your damage. And they'll have many turns to dig for answers which you lose to as soon as they find. In decks that aren't set up to run Bridge main, since I can't see myself doing so, what specific matchups do you bring it in, and what is your plan to win once it's in play?