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Then I was a really lucky player for a couple of times. But it's like I said: you really hope to hit all your hate-cards at just the right time. The only thing really bothers me is a Tendrils, which I have no way of reacting on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Mindbreak Trap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
Silence, C.Therapy, Duress, Wish->Therapy ... all supported by G.ProbeQuote:
Originally Posted by JPoJohnson
/topic of MBT
Funny people always mention MBT :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
I don't see how the fact that there are answers run in TES to hate that you shouldn't run SB cards that are indeed fantastic against a specific deck. You don't always go off protected in TES (I run both decks... although I'm much better at Goblins than TES). I personally would still recommend running it against Storm decks. I've also seen it be very successful in many different large tournaments. What would you recommend in its place?
Note: I'm not saying I'm better because I'm easily much worse than 95% of the people on this post in regards to piloting this deck. I just have seen Mindbreak Trap run with great success in many many situations as well as myself.
Tbh Mindbreak Trap is a known one-trick-pony. There ARE greedy players that fall victim to the Mythic instant, but those reactive cards always let you enough time and space to outplay them. Cards like Thalia and Thorn of Amethyst do not.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPoJohnson
It's not a big deal to play 3-4 turns against a average Goblin-hand with MBT while digging for Profection and finishing the game with a Tutor-chain, or setup a scenario in which you only have to cast 2 spells total for Ad Nauseam etc. etc.
Don't feel save with those reactive crap like MBT and Flusterstorm. It's not that easy to play those against the right spells. (P.S.: Waiting for Ad Nauseam or a spell with storm is rarely correct)
Just play 1 Mindbreak Trap flash it during shuffling or sideboarding and just play more of the other hate cards instead like Thalia, Chalice and Thorn. Now the storm combo has to be weary of the threat of MBT and you can still use the good hatecards. It works some times, at least until the storm player just has to go for it ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
If you expect that shuffle-reveal-trick of an one-off is any successful as a strategy lemme tell you about "odds" of having it in fact in your opener.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wave
The term "has to go for it" is directly connected to the pressure the opposing player presents. Having 2 MBT, a lakey, a Piledriver and lands isn't threatening. Each MBT in your opener eats a potential threats spot and gives TES more time.
Dunno, our 2 local Goblin players keep ignoring me too. I credit that by hilarious EtW's and Grapehots ... just for fun
Mindbreak Trap is a bad card. Please don't play it unless your meta is full of Belcher. MBT does nothing relevant but stop the Storm player from winning. You want to stop a Storm player from winning, play Teeg. It does that, but is harder to deal with and beats down too.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPoJohnson
MBT doesn't prevent or slow down their setup, so they have ample time to cantrip like madmen and find whatever answers and nutdraws they wish. Also, Silence, nice MBT you have there. Much better to use things like discard and resistors that actually slow them down and actively deprive them of resources needed for victory, or more standard counterspells that have less use restrictions and can trip up that setup / "recover from discard" phase.
Actually it doesn't matter how high the odds are of you having it in your hand since you don't care about that. The flashing thing is more of a poker bluff than anything letting the opponent know that you have Mindbreak Trap in your deck but not knowing if you have four or just one, the bluff is the whole point not the disruption itself. Now the storm player has to, in some way play around MBT, while you just drop threats or other more effective sideboard cards instead of having dead MBTs in your hand. Just going no0b and just show the MBT while sideboarding and stating "how do you beat four of these" also works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
The "has to go for it" statement was added because this strategy works until the point where the storm player has to try to win despite not knowing your hand, hopefully you have locked him out with threats or Thorns/Thalia by that time.
It's hilarious to win against the goblin players using goblins, i LOL every time :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Pal, I have no idea where you meet all those TES players who have near to no Poker-skills nor can calculate odds and fall victim to such cheap tricks or, at least, are impressed by those :/
I'm sure, locking-out TES with lots of damage, prevent T1/2 with MBT and secure the game with Thalia is a dream scenario ... an unlikely one. Moreover there are enough cards in the deck to reveal and disrupt such scenarios.
Actually you would be surprised how well it works, it's all in the execution I suppose, as long as the opponents know that MBT is in your deck they can never know if you have four or one of them and has to make adjustments. Although TES is equipped to handle counterspells in general, a situation where you have to know if you want to go for it now or wait for protection is likely to happen in a couple of games. It's pretty similar to the Daze effect on your opponents when you are playing RUG or some other tempo deck. People play around what they think you have in your deck, it's the same impact that Force has on combo players, even though the correct play is to go for it some players hesitate because of the threat of FOW, same with Daze, same with MBT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Even if the effect was marginal it's still a gain by a small percentage, just like playing with an all Japanese deck, it doesn't win you the majority of your matches but once in a blue moon some player is going to make a play mistake because they was not entirely sure what your cards did. Every little edge adds up.
Actually sans the MBT in that scenario, is that not the usual way for goblins to win? By disruption and lethal damage? Unless you are referring to the fact that winning with goblins against TES is a dream scenario then I agree, otherwise your argument makes no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Anyway this is the TES thread I think we might have derailed it by discussing goblin strategy, let's get back to topic maybe?
First, I think it's ok to discuss the potential SB options of aggro archtypes by the example of Goblins.
Trying to gain significant advantages by foreign languages is cheap. Bet I'll make a Judge sit on your lap while asking questions about the cards/mechanics and see you gather warnings for giving misinformation ;)
MBT isn't an effect like FoW or Daze which are (near) automatic mainboard 4-offs in their respective decks. MBT is a 1/2-off in most Sideboards due to it's limited use against the average field of decks. The moment you tell me a Story about it being a 4-off in your Sideboard the options are limited to 2: either you have no clue how to Build a balanced SB and that tells a lot about the player, or you are simply trying to trick me.
The difference between MBT, Thalia and Thorn is, that the later 2 are a permament which is sometimes tricky for TES to handle and Thalia even deals damage. With Thalia being both, disruption and damagesource, it's the supreme option unless you want to splash black. MBT however is sitting in your hand without harming the TES players Development nor pressuring his life, only waiting to be dismembered by Silence, Therapy, Duress, (Probe,) or miraculously prevent an unprotected T1/2 Ad Nauseam/EtW
I disagree to the statement that Mindbreak Trap is ineffective. You have to combine it with other hate though.
Having both 3 Trap and 4 main deck Thalia and three sideboard Thorn is very hard to beat. The idea is that TES/ANT will side against the known Thalia (so adds bounce and discard). Trap now shines, since a TES player who draws enough protection to beat both will go off slower, giving the Goblins player time to attack. But more often the TES player will have only an answer to one of them. And Trap means that going off before Thorn/Thalia hits the floor is hardly an option.
What Lemnear is trying to say (between the lines) though, is that he will not meet the Goblins player, because the Goblins player had such a narrow sideboard (3x Trap, 3x Thorn) that he lost his first two matches. Lemnear on the other hand won both :wink: and went on to avoid the narrow but dangerous sideboard of the Goblins player. This is an effect we should not underestimate. The optimal Goblins sideboard will probably contain zero MBTs. Having, and flashing one won't matter against a good player, because he knows you cannot have more than one or two because you would otherwise just lose four other matchups. Next to this, we have the effect that Probe has: completely nullifying opposing poker tricks. 'Oh crap he has Traps! Turn one: Probe you! Ah, look, no Traps! :)" (Proceeding to create 14 Goblin tokens with EtW.)
Spot on! I tip my hat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
The problem here is that you can't dedicate 8+ Sideboard cards to that matchup and expect to proceed through a tournament against OmniTell, Reanimator, Stoneblade-Variants, Jund and Miracles which are not affected by MBT. The taxing-effect of Thalia and Thorn however is an annoyance to other combo-decks and Miracles too.
I don't think you can a) afford to overload on narrow hate for one specific matchup or b) rely on a single angle of disruption for beating a problematic matchup
Bryant (standing 5-1) just won g1 vs Shardless bug with an empty for 16 goblins.
MBT is awful vs storm. Have I lost games because someone was playing it? Yes. But that is like when players board improperly and win because of it. Sure it won you the game that one time, but a majority of the time its awful.
Seems like Cook lost his final round... to Punishing Jund. A little rough.
Three TES players in the top 16, congrats!Quote:
Originally Posted by Basaka
Actually it's 2 T.E.S. decks and one T.P.S. deck.