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Don't forget that resolving Explorer triggers isn't a goal but a means to an end. That end is reaching 6-7 mana. The question you need to ask yourself is what do I need that 7th mana for? B/c if you can't find a reason, you're better off with another real card than another land. A pile of land helps you win games, but will never kill your opponent :wink:.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobra_D
This is true. For fair deck though, if/when games go long, sometimes you get a bad beat and topdeck a vet explorer. Or you have a Meren Trigger on 1 and put Vet into play. Getting the extra incremental value their is just built in now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
I can always use the extra mana after that. 6/7 mana is enough but having 8 lands in play is usable, especially with tracker.
Depends on the build I guess for how much mana you want. I'm still a fan of the 7th basic even if our reasoning to that conclusion differs a bit.
What value? Another land that does nothing? And 8 mana for clues instead of 6/7 - how relevant is popping 4 clues in a single turn instead of 3? I understand where you're going, but you're just not making a very compelling point. Your points so far are "to make Meren better" (by recurring the same 1/1 she would otherwise) and "so I can crack 4 clues per turn instead of 3".Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobra_D
Not trying to be a dick, by the way. Just trying to hold up a mirror and give some food for thought. I'm sorry if I seem rude.
It's not that I want to crack 3 clues in a turn. I want to crack a clue and play the 4 drop that I draw off the clue. And activate Ooze/DRS. And maybe a volrath's stronghold for good measure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
I'm not arguing that any of this is necessary. On the contrary this is the magical christmas land scenario nic fit seems to have an unfair reputation for. But it's there.
Also, upon reevaluating my position on the matter I do realize that in playing rhino fit I have been had a lot of situations where I have a Meren, a Vet, and a Tower and then easily get an arbitrary number of vet triggers.
For some reason I always face Karakas/Fatal Push/StP/DRS/Wasteland to mess with that party. My regular sparring buddy pilots Grixis Delver and D&T :laugh:, the asshole.
You lucky bastard!
Besides, even with a heap of basics you still just draw 1 card per turn. Be careful w/ the magical christmas land-ing, it hardly ever leads to any good.
I've lost to a couple different BUG/Shardless lists when I had only one enchantment out. Overwhelming Splendor doesn't automatically beat JTMS, for example, and they can throw enough creatures in front of your wurms (including big Tarmogoyfs) to drain you out with DRS, especially if you got slowed down with hand disruption early. I'm not saying you're not favored, just that it does happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackaBo
Against BUG I'd probably be fetching Cruel Reality first, to be honest. They pretty much just lose to that card, even with Jaces. If you have Rector in hand / available to follow up with, Dovescape is also an option. I'd only fetch splendor if my opponent had a major board presence which needed to be dealt with immediately.Quote:
Originally Posted by ObligatoryReference
This is when I wasn't playing Cruel Reality (and is my argument for having it in the 75, even if it goes in the sideboard). I was mostly pointing at the fact that decks that can generate tons of card advantage (like BUG Delver/Shardless/Czech Pile) won't necessarily fold to the first enchantment you get out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
I saw a guy streaming a nutty 4-color list. He was 2-1 as i post this. He is not archiving VODs so hopefully he comments here or streams again: https://www.twitch.tv/jmilia
Deck: Punishing-Thieves-Sneak-Fit
Counts : 61 main / 15 sideboard
Creatures:14
1 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Notion Thief
1 Inferno Titan
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells:26
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
3 Dack Fayden
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Sneak Attack
Lands:21
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
2 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Taiga
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volcanic Island
3 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard:15
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Golgari Charm
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 To the Slaughter
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Slaughter Games
1 Nissa, Vital Force
It's militiaman89. He posted the list a page back. What program is he playing on? XMage? MtG: Online?
Looks like he took pettdan's advice and worked out the manabase. I think it's way too greedy though. He might have to go up to 23 land and add an Underground Sea and/or fetchland or 2 to up the non-green count (specifically blue and black are troublingly low). It's just waiting for variance to kick in or a Wasteland/Stifle to blow you out of the water.
Hey guys, I was the one running the 4 color Sneak Fit deck yesterday on stream. It was a blast to play and the manabase seemed to work for the most part but the blue splash never felt needed, though I might try out the new Nissa planeswalker (UGx) one when I get a chance. Other then that, one of the guys here gave me their current jund sneak list and ill be running that on stream next. Next day I have off is friday to stream Ill throw it in chat when im up an running. Im very new to streaming is their a way I can save the videos for yous to watch?
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Hi All,
I just put together my first real Nic Fit deck a couple weeks ago and have been testing it. (I previously tried a Fruity Pebbles Nic Fit combo deck without much success, though it was hilarious). It's a BUG build. My goal is to create a consistent shell (using cantrips) with a powerful engine--and then fun, badass cards that come along with the Nic Fit archetype. The engine is any combination of Gitrog, Titania, and Ramunap Excavator. Also, I want the main deck to crush fair matchups (most of the field is fair right now)--and my SB to be solid in games 2 and 3 versus combo. Below is my list:
Lands (21):
2x Bayou
1x Underground Sea
1x Tropical Island
1x Savannah
1x Wasteland
2x Island
2x Forest
2x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Dryad Arbor
Spells (39):
3x Veteran Explorer
4x Cabal Therapy
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Eternal Witness
1x Ramunap Excavator
1x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1x Meren of Clan Nel-toth
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth
1x The Gitrog Monster
1x Carnage Tyrant
1x Pernicious Deed
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Fatal Push
1x Go For The Throat
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Baleful Strix
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Liliana of the Veil
1x Garruk Relentless
SB (15):
2x Flusterstorm
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Thoughtseize
2x Diabolic Edict
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Pernicious Deed
1x Arcane Laboratory
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Lost Legacy
1x Golgari Charm
I'm very open to thoughts, questions, and feedback on the build. Thanks :-)
The best Rhino ever was, in my opinion, was the Red Rhino lists with Price of Progress and/or Blood Moon. Rhino needs to occupy a tempo space if it's going to work, in my opinion (disrupt them, then kill them) -- it's fundamentally, philosophically, a different style than most Nic Fit decks occupy. It flat out doesn't have the same tools to be inexorable, it needs to kill the opponent.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
The trick is that Nic Fit can be a bit more resilient than most tempo decks. We can run E.Wit and Meren, or Nightmare -- if they kill our Rhino, we get back and tag them again. We can run aggressive walkers to pressure from different angles. I think you're spot on with Garruk Relentless - I ran him in my sideboard in Delirium at mythic (and again at my locals, the next day) this last weekend, and he overperformed for me. Meta definitely feels good for him.
I'll also note quick that Lands isn't a mana denial deck vs us, they're a combo deck. You don't fear the control/prison side of their deck, you fear the turn 2 20/20 flyer.
Some quick hits:
-) Ulvenwald Tracker is likely too slow to be relevant, and also super fragile. People are playing Forked Bolt again, let's not walk into it.
-) If you want the extra accel and insist on Hierarch, I'd 3-1 Hierarch vs DRS. I still say we're not well positioned to be a Deathrite deck, and while it can be an okay Zenith bullet, I don't like running multiples -- he's better to grab post-Deed or some such...but even then, Ooze is usually better. I'll note that I don't like Hierarch in our Deed deck, but I can appreciate the desire for extra mana sources.
-) Sigarda isn't good enough anymore. If you really want to make Sigarda work, you likely need a pair of Relentless and probably some Collective Brutalities. You really need ways to pick of Strixes while generating value. There's a million Strixes atm, and half of them or more are recursive thanks to Kommand. Ooze can help with this, but in my experience, Ooze doesn't have a high life expectancy vs Czech.
-) 22 lands seems a hair high since your curve is lower. I also think you need a basic Island to support the Leos and sideboard cards -- especially with Back to Basic (which I think is an awful idea, but if you want to try it, go for it I guess).
-) No Tireless Trackers seems really odd to me. Tracker seems like a natural fit for this deck, especially with the mana dorks to accel into him on turn 2 and then play a land for immediate value.
-) I despise Gaddock Teeg, but I know you have a higher opinion of him than I do, so, w/e. I had to at least say it.
-) Lands is going to be a straight up nightmare for you with this deck, I think. You have no ways of dealing with Merit Lage currently -- Back to Basics won't stop them from just loaming and playing lands untapped, and once a 20/20 happens, you have no Edicts or Celestial Purges to get rid of it.
-) Seriously, consider Celestial Purge as a 1- or 2- of. It overperforms every time I run a white list. Card is flat amazing.
-) Nissa, Vital Force is an absolute house at the moment. The meta makes her incredibly well positioned currently -- 0 in the 76 is a big mistake, in my opinion.
My strongest recommendation would be to just scrap the blue and replace it with red. Run like a pair of PoPs main, maybe an extra in the board with a couple Moons, and just dunk people. Run Rhinos and Trackers as the core of your creature suite, possibly a pair of Sin Prodders to complement and ramp up the pressure a little. I'd also run a Regisaur at the 5-spot for more pressure and more planeswalker hate.
Here's something approximating what I would recommend for if you want to Rhino people:
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer // 1 Scavenging Ooze (either is fine here)
1 Eternal Witness
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Sin Prodder
4 Siege Rhino
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Regisaur Alpha
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Painful Truths
3 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Price of Progress
2 Nissa, Vital Force
2 Sylvan Library
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
1 Phyrexian Tower
sb::
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Blood Moon
1 Celestial Purge
1 Price of Progress
2 Thoughtseize
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Sanctum Prelate
Hope that gives some ideas, sorry that it took me a couple days to get to this.
Can't see the video on the link :/Quote:
Originally Posted by MDHackbert
He does not have "archive broadcasts" checked, so there are no VODs. For schedule of future streams from him, see the post above by militiaman89.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulysse95
Hey guys, I have a question : When do you side out explorer ? (as in side out 3 or 4 of them)
My first answer would be against decks that profit more from the basics dora would fetchs. But apart miracle what deck are those ?
Decks with "basics inside" : miracle, D&T, elves!, goblin (ok that's just PTST talking), burn, pox, merfolk.
Of those I side out Dora vs miracle and burn (and would side it out vs gob if I play against them anytime soon), I keep him in vs D&T to fight their mana denial and vs elves! because they play 1 forest and I play 4 path, 4 explorer and a ghost quarter (and I need the acceleration in order to compete because no matter what they will have too much mana). Undecided VS merfolk cause I hadn't seen them in ages.
I would like to hear what you guys think about that, and what variant are you playing (because it impact the decision )
@ arianrhod : I listened to "leaving a legacy" and it was great to hear someone talking about nic fit and not telling bullshit :smile: also you got the episode with TOOL as end music, so that's the best way to close two hour of nic fitting:cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plm
Mostly i side out Veteran Explorer vs Miracles and any blue based combo deck (Reanimator/storm/Sneak). Other decks i mostly don't care if i share basics, since Deed cleans up anyway or i get something bigger/better. It might be ok to resolve Veteran trigger VS burn, since they can dry up fast on their hand. Vs burn the best thing is still to get any/every lifegain you have out fast. mostly if your able to get 4+ lifegain and keep pressure up your probably ok in most scenario's. Calling good Cabal Therapies also is important here.
Currently i am pulling Jund PFire control out of the dust. The Rector build is nice and pretty streamlined, it is a bit to linear to my taste. And Scapewish costing me a playset of Taiga and Badlands is currently not within budget. While i believe that Junk (not Rhino per se) is more generic and safer in general, is still just prefer to jam PFire and Lilliana instead. SO:
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
1 Regisaur Alpha
1 Carnage Tyrant
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Punishing Fire
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Kolaghan's Command
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
Sideboard
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
2 Blood Moon
2 Slaughter Games
1 Pithing Needle
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
1 Reclamation Sage
Played Wurmmachine to 3-1 at the LGS today. Lost horribly to elves, won versus stoneblade, grixis control and the rock.
Maindeck mirri felt very good. Splendor is a super good follow up to convergence.
A resolved trigger vs Burn is very bad. Their goal is to survive long enough to spend between 5 and 7 mana, then you die. A trigger on your turn is 2 if they have instants, then they untap and get another 2. Veteran alone is almost guaranteed lethal for them, resolving it will cost you up to 10 life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Sin Prodder
1 Fierce Empath
1 Eternal Witness
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Thragtusk
1 Regisaur Alpha
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Primeval Titan
1 Inferno Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Nissa, Vital Force
2 Sylvan Library
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sneak Attack
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bayou
2 Taiga
1 Badlands
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
sb::
2 Blood Moon
2 Fatal Push
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Golgari Charm
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Slaughter Games
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Diabolic Edict
This is where I'm at for sneak at the moment, if anyone is interested.