Plow isn't even necessarily a 4-of. I can't see playing Bolt over that or even REB or Council's Judgment.
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Plow isn't even necessarily a 4-of. I can't see playing Bolt over that or even REB or Council's Judgment.
The man speaks:
http://youtu.be/sx227bJKFWo
http://youtu.be/sx227bJKFWo
It's good if you're too lazy to go over the stream. He did mention Ein's list.
So, no Lightning Bolt because of Council's Judgement? Mm makes sense but it's very expensive and difficoult to flashback
One 4 Ponder Miracles in them Top 8 of the Invi and one with a Legacy record of 7-1 or better! :)
Greetings
What do you guys think about playing Mangara of Corondor in the legend build of miracles? We can replace Council's Judgement for it. Mangara of Corondor would give us another possibility to lock the opponent together with Karakas.
mm danger of cool things imho. If you feel 1WW is not a problem at all I would just play 1 more Council.
The point is that in a 4 Wasteland (and sometime 4 Sinkhole) matchup, to cast 1WW can make Council a dead card
Also, without Karakas, a non basic land, Mangara is 100% worse than Judgement. I wouldn't play it
Just look at the match in SCG Invitational, the Top 8 match between Duke and Finchler, Duke jammed early Blood Moon with Mountain, Plains, Island, and Island. However, he became unable to fetch + Top and his floating Entreat became useless. Eventually Finchler got his Forest and Silvan Library and then cascade into Liliana.
That's why Miracles players running Blood Moon is awkward, unless you go for the humility + BS token route, or thopther route, or Rip + Helm route.
Blood moon was totally nuts for the Duke! Overall, Reid piloted the deck which has addmitedly odd cardchoices really well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adryan
Edit: You can scry with Jace if you dont have shuffle effects which is really helpful.
Well done. Someone like you, who holds moral superiority against other people, instead of debating effectiveness of Blood Moon, you have to try to provoke a trolling slug-fest by making non constructive irrelevant remarks. You've are no different than all the other Internet trolls. Time well wasted, just by typing this reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adryan
I like Blood Moon for this meta, but I don't really like it against Jund. Jund has a lot of outs to it and I think that's some of the awkwardness in that one game. It's much more of a lock for BUG.
Blood Moon just makes Entreat much worse. This must be considered while siding.
Apart from that, very good card
Blood Moon makes our unwinnable games completely one-sided. Find a Terminus to clean up the Deathrite/Goyf beatdown crew, slam the Blood Moon when they can't Decay it, or you just think they don't have it. They can't win if they can't cast Spells.
From the BUG perspective, I think that long as Delver/Team America is the most popular way to play BUG colors, Blood Moon is essential in Miracles. Most Shardless BUG and TNN-Control BUG players are at least running Swamp or Swamp-Forest to fight Blood Moon, and I've had success at locals with Control and Shardless lists running Swamp-Forest-Island or even 2x Swamp and another basic. I imagine Jund is similarly reliant on its nonbasics, and I'm surprised that Finchler didn't put more priority on his basics against Duke when he knew to expect Blood Moon.
I'm really not sure why more BUG players aren't running at least the singleton Swamp, because Moon is insane against us otherwise, and can turn a favorable matchup like Miracles into a very bad one quickly. Until the acceptance of multiple basics is universal in non-Delver BUG lists, and as long as Delver decks in general run zero basics, I'll remain surprised when I encounter Miracles players who aren't at least boarding a copy of Blood Moon.
Because it's smarter to lose to one matchup (Blood Moon matchups) than to weaken your deck against all other decks. BUG Delver is a tempo deck and maximizes that with Wasteland and fewer lands. Basic Swamp and basic Forest can't cast Daze. Basic Swamp can't cast Ponder or Delver of Secrets. Basic Forest can't cast Hymn to Tourach or Brainstorm. Basics are playable in Shardless BUG or BUG Control because the game plan is different for those decks. Wasteland isn't as important in those decks, and thus they have room to squeeze in basic lands. Incidentally, Daze -- which Shardless BUG can't run and BUG Control wouldn't run (for tempo-loss reasons) -- provides insulation from Moon effects. Miracles players have a limited number of spots in their sideboard and have a number of strong options to choose from across three colors. It's not a no-brainer by any means.Quote:
Originally Posted by btm10
No More EE in the SB!
Duke - Somerset - no EE
Yim - Somerset - no EE
Musser (pretty much same as Lossett) - Somerset - no EE
BBD - DC - no EE
Roukas - Syracuse - no EE
Remelt - Dallas - no EE
So these were the winning (minor) adaptions of my 4-Ponder-List last weekend. Congratulations Chi Hoi Yim and Kyle Shane.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=72275
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=72282
EDIT:Kyle Shane had a Legacy record of 7-1, that's why I included his list, even though he didn't show up at the top of the mixed standings.
Greetings
Pyroclasm without Rest in Peace? What is it for?
I have a question about the Manabase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Einherjer
We run a total of 4 Red Cards, 3 Blasts & a Keranos.
However, the decks that these cards are most useful against (other than Mirror), usually run Wastelands. Is 2 Volcanic islands too little?
Do you often find yourself out of a red source? (i find this issue quite prevalent against BUG Delver and Shardless BUG decks)
Since running three Volcanics, it has never been an issue. Two was very occasionally troublesome. Mountain is always an option, but I don't prefer it.Quote:
Originally Posted by KZhang
I have 1 mountain for those matchups in the board.
I have somewhat of a silly question, but how do you determine when/for which match-ups to side out lands? I see people siding out the odd land here and there to bring in more things, but I don't feel comfortable doing that and getting mana screwed.
If you have 23 and probably even 22 lands, you can side one out against pretty much anything without Wastelands or some sort of pressure on your mana. Just make sure that the cards you bring in are actually better than the lands. In control mirrors, making land drops is pretty important. I wouldn't ever go below 21.Quote:
Originally Posted by SageShadows
What's the configuration of your mana base now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzra
4 x Flooded Strands
4 x Scalding Tarns
1 x Arid Mesas
3 x Tundra
3 x Volcanic Island
1 x Karakas
4 x Islands
2 x Plains
I'm personally considering moving up to 23 Lands
by +1 Arid Mesa, +1 Mountain, -1 Volcanic Island
Yeah, I run a basic mountain in the board that I board out for a Volcanic, and I'm still considering making it maindeck. I think adding extra Volcanics is more of a liability than anything. The core issue regarding mana in this matchup is drawing those 6 non-basics and being wastelanded, not just running out of red sources. Every non-basic you add to your deck is a liability against the creature decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by KZhang
Reid duke managed to cut his non-basics down to only 4 in his invitational deck which he took to the finals, while simultaneously upping his total land count to 24. If you watch the footage he was basically immune to Wasteland most games, which was incredible. Not that I can see myself cutting Cliques or Snapcasters from my list to make it happen...
Yea. I agree. His list is quite interesting though. upping to 4 jaces, no cliques or snapcasters mb, and also running 0 ponders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher
I personally feel like running a basic mountain over a 3rd volcanic and/or sideboarding a mountain is just wasting a slot in your 75.
Merfolk no longer runs wastelands and other than that, I am not sure what deck I care about red getting wastelanded in terms of how badly I need it vs how dangerous it is for it to be wastelanded.
Shardless bug and patriot.Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
This reminds me. As I understand it, the original reason for only 3x Jace was RUG Delver. That deck isn't very relevant right now, and Jace is the champ against BUG and in mirrors. How do people feel about reconsidering running only 3x of the most ridiculous permanent in Magic? Afraid you might draw "too many Jaces?" I think I'd cut Entreat and run 6 if it was legal.Quote:
Originally Posted by KZhang
You guys shouldn't need to be fetching the red source at all vs. Shardless or Patriot or any other deck for that matter until you're absolutely ready to use it. The whole point of running 4x Swords as well as Disenchant in the side is to mitigate this need.
Could anyone share his quick sideboard thoughts vs PUNISHING Jund? I play a 2 Ponder list with 1 Clique, 2x Pierce, 3x CB, 3x Jace main.
For me:
Cards that 100% won't come in: 2x Flusterstorm, 2x ReB, 1x Pyroblast
Cards that 100% sure do come in and out:
-4x FoW -1x Jace +1x Keranos, +1x Council's Judgment, +2x Engineered Explosives, +1x Wear//Tear
Other possible sideboard cards are: 2x Rest in Peace, 1x Vendilion Clique, 1x Pithing Needle and 1x Blood Moon
Other cards to consider taking out: 2x Spell Pierce, 2x Counterspell, 3x Counterbalance, more Jaces?, 2x Snapcaster Mage (because of RiP) and even the lone Clique (if we don't side the other in).
I tried some combinations but didn't like Blood Moon for sure. Rest in Peace was awesome, but I feel like I need the Counterbalances alongside them to be fully succesfull. Even with rest in Peace in the deck, I still wanted Snapcaster Mage (like others figured out as well). So maybe:
-4 FoW
-1 Jace
-2 Pierce
-2 CS
+1 keranos
+2 explosives
+1 wear//tear
+1 CJ's
+2 RiP
+1 Needle
+1 Clique
I also tried something without RiP:
-4 FoW
-1 Jace
-3 CB
+1 keranos
+2 explosives
+1 wear//tear
+1 CJ's
+1 Clique
+1 Needle
+1 Blood Moon
The second tactic tries to dodge Decay, but the Needle seems bad in this configuration (but better than the 3th Jace or 4th FoW not?)
Well..., you're correct in principle. However, from the Shardless side, all they have to do is turn 1 Vision suspend, then holding a Jace. After you Blast the Vision. They'll waste your Volcanic. Now Jace will require a Blue counter and they no longer have to worry about 2nd Blast.Quote:
Originally Posted by exallium
Against Jund, you need every single creature you can have, including Snapcaster. Just need Blockers, ambushing a frisky Dark Confidant when Jund player wants to go aggressive with him is important. Make Sense to dodge decay in BUG Delver match-up, but not here. I would go the opposite, which is overloading Decay targets. Keranos and Jace here are especially hard to use, since Jund sure would load up on permanent removal as well as Blasts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lans89
The point about REB and Jace is a fair one. I like this approach to Jund. They only have 4 abrupt decays, and maybe 2 golgari charms. Overloading on targets not only forces them to make threat analytical decisions, but may trip them into making the wrong ones. Keranos is superior to Jace in this matchup, as it kills just about every creature and planeswalker in their deck, and they have no way to get it off the table if it resolves. Jace can help clear the board and filter your hand, but can die on the spot to a drawn-into REB effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
So many absolutes in one sentence...Quote:
Originally Posted by exallium
If you've got 3 or 4 lands in play and you need to crack your only fetchland with Red Blast in hand, you should get the volcanic. If the game goes long and you started with a Volcanic in your opener, you're likely going to get wasted off red after casting your first Red Blast. What does swords and disenchant have to do with this?
I realize what I said was good in theory but bad in practice. Swords and Disenchant are relevant because they don't require red (unlike blasts used as delver removal or something like wear // tear). These comments are using Ein's build as a reference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher
I think it's pretty good in practice too. Just because you don't have a followup Red source yet doesn't mean that you need to get one with your last fetchland. A lot depends on you weighing their ability to produce a dangerous Blue threat and their ability to Wasteland you and which you end up valuing more highly. Sometimes it's correct to strand the REB to develop your mana more. Sometimes it's correct to jam the Volcanic, and for those times, I'd much rather have 3 Volcanics.Quote:
Originally Posted by exallium
Mountain is good when you can afford to play it, but one big problem is that when Mountain is in your deck and you are in a situation when you need to fetch Volcanic then the Mountain is much harder to find should your Volcanic get Wasted. Volcanics can be fetched from all your fetches. And this is ignoring how awful Mountain looks in most opening hands or how badly it plays with Ponder or Mystic Gate.
Agreed, running lands in the sideboard of a control deck seems awful. We need every last slot in order to answer the field. Maybe you could make an argument for cutting a land maindeck and just moving Mountain to the SB, but even that's a stretch.Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
4 Flooded StrandQuote:
Originally Posted by KZhang
4 Polluted Delta
2 Arid Mesa
2 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
2 Plains
2 Karakas
1 Mystic Gate
Unconventional Miracles (school of P.V.) doesn't mean bad. The man can win with anything really, his report: http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...-invitational/
My take-away: Defeating Delver decks, despite running 4 StP, can be hard if you run zero creatures.
Played this list at the MOCS pre to a 5-1 finish. Started 0-1 and did beat dredge 2-0^^
http://s27.postimg.org/62ajfihfj/Screenshot_108.jpg
http://s18.postimg.org/4fh5ib99x/Screenshot_109.jpg
Dredge is the reason why we play 3 GY hate. Against everything else it's not really needed. It's not a commonly played deck, and that combined with that you still can win with 1 GY hate and that you can't beat their goddraws, makes we want to play only 1 GY hate.
Congrats, I just finished the 6:30 central prelim and went 5-1 as well, losing to Thopter Miracles the last round.
It's not gonna be Miracle but maybe you wanted to watch me stream together with Patrick Dickmann. http://www.twitch.tv/ofe1ia
Starting in about one hour.
Thanks.
Greetings
Patrick gives very good explanation of his reasoning behind his card choices. Good work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Einherjer