just to be constructive, but this is one of the most absurd things related to magic I've never read. anyway lot of thanks as this was absolutly funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by mario91234
again, IMHO.!
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just to be constructive, but this is one of the most absurd things related to magic I've never read. anyway lot of thanks as this was absolutly funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by mario91234
again, IMHO.!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mario91234
@Lem, I didn't "just jam" into CB. i had options over the course of 4 turns in the face of his blind counterbalance. Every time I started on a line, it was nullified. My hand vs rug was land, petal, empty, dark rit, wish, wish, infernal. Are you telling me you'd mull? Against sneak, I definitely think going to it that turn is correct. He could just have sneak attack and creature w/ petal. Gold lands are great and silence is great.
For people actually interested in blood moon, it's in there to give additional lines. Sometimes, you just want a 5 mana combo that's imune to stifle, or 6 mana combo thats immune to daze...you get the point. Obviously it's complete trash if your opponent plays a threat before then. only cast it if you're opponent loses to it. It won me 3 separate games. If you're skeptical, try it out on a not so major event. It was good enough that I wanted a 2nd in my board.
It's interesting since you still have petal and chrome moxen to make the colors you need. I'm not sure if I like it though
Game 3 on the draw vs. daze.dec with 3 dead card in your hand with a best case of 6 Goblins? Very likely a mulligan for me
How much worse is (2 Usea, 1 Volc, 1 Blands) than (2 Usea, 2 Volc)?
Are there any advantages to playing the 3 Dual, 3 Fetch, 6 Rainbow manabase over the 4-4-4 split?
The first question is addressed in the OP, but basically badlands can't cast a cantrip, and therefore you must mulligan more. I've never had a problem with the manabase as it is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by laserstone
I would only play the 3 dual, 3 fetch, 6 rainbow configuration if I decided to go back to playing silence. If you play the OP's list, I'd definitely stick to the 4-4-4 split because it makes your brainstorms better and you are slightly more resilient to wasteland.
Yeah, the reason I was asking is because I don't have the 2nd Volcanic, only the Badlands, and getting the Volcanic may be tough (poor student, been saving for this deck for a long time, but could only nab one Volc before the prices doubled :frown:).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidbails
Playing Bloodstained Mires as fetches, which can't fetch Trop from the board, do you still recommend the 4-4-4, and if so, should the Trop in the board be a Bayou?
Badlands is a fine replacement for the time being, it just means you'll end up having to mulligan more often.Quote:
Originally Posted by laserstone
The bloodstained mire thing is a bigger problem because it can't get tropical island. In that case, you could play a bayou, but this is definitely not a good replacement. This could be a situation where I play extra rainbow lands and cut the tropical island in the board, but this is also not ideal (obviously).
I think at that point I may want to play the old 6 rainbow land configuration honestly. Storm decks are the one style deck in the format where you lose too many percentage points when playing with sub optimal choices to even be good.
Compliments of my buddy Jack http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=7562&d=243382&f=LEQuote:
Originally Posted by laserstone
This is one of the decklists I based my own list off of. I'm not a fan of Silence though.Quote:
Originally Posted by jake556
Quote:
Originally Posted by laserstone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidbails
Quote:
Originally Posted by laserstone
Man, it's nice being able to just quote myself on most repeating topics with this gem:
;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Heart of the Storm Vol. 7 - Storm Shards
So i ended up 21st at scg dallas this weekend after losing my win and in match and then drawing the final round to guarantee top 32. Here is a tournament report with details i can remember.
R1: burn (W)
Game 1 i get 12 goblins in on the play before eidolon hits. Glad i won the dice roll.
Game 2 therapy nabs eidolon turn 1 and i ad nauseam for the win turn 2
R2: fish (L)
Game 1 i have the opportunity to make 12 goblins using brainstorm-probe-LED trick but fail to put empty back on top of my library...punt (note: i did hit a point where past in flames in my board would still have gotten me the game but i wasnt running it today)
Game 2 double force and no discard ensures my doom
R3: fish (W)
Game 1 turn 2 empty for 10 goblins gets there just barely before he could build up enough blockers with vial and lands
Game 2 he mulls to four and keeps a force-less hand. Unfortunate loss for him here.
R4: burn (W)
Game 1 i mull to 5 and he hits turn 2 eidolon on the play. Manage to kill it with wish for pyroclasm but burn too many resources to kill him in time.
Game 2 turn two empty for 16 gets it done
Game 3 i look to make 18 goblins turn 3, cast wish and look through my board to find it empty-less...oops. Left it in my mainboard after wishing for it the previous round. I settle for tendrils for 18 (leaving him at 1 after a fetch) and hope to hit one of the two emptys or a wish for grapeshot. A few turns of draw-go finds him another land and an eidolon. I empty for 6 the next turn and attack for the win. Got lucky not to be punished for sloppiness here.
R5 UR delver (W)
Game 1 his only action is delver plus snapcaster bolt. I go to make a bunch of goblins from a low teens life total and he decides to snap-bolt me mid sequence (i think he was afraid of me ad-nauseam-ing into some sort of counter. He admitted to being out of the game for a while.) anyway, the 2 bonus storm allow me to tendrils for lethal.
Game 2 he flips an early delver and hits me into the single digits. The time comes to go and i can tendrils for the exact 18 lethal. Probe reveals an irrelevant daze which he wound up donating to the storm count. Would have been lethal anyway though he was annoyed with himself after the game.
R6 fish (W)
Game 1 probe revealed a counterless hand of fish and ad nauseam from a high 19 life ended it the next turn.
Game 2 double cursecatcher plus a known daze delayed me a few turns, when i finally had the mana to play through them he had found a force.
Game 3 turn 1 probe reveals two true names, 2 lords and a daze with and island and another irrelevant card. He hits a wasteland for my only land but i have a second chrome mox a turn later after missing a land drop. I lay one into the daze and then the second with an imprint, followed with a couple of rituals, led, wish, empty for 16 which gets the job done. Probably a bad keep on his part and some mis-sideboarding when we talked after the game; TNN is way too slow to matter and his hand had no clock and no real action outside of wasteland+daze.
R7 BUG delver (L)
Game 1 mull to a 6 of probe, brainstorm, petal, therapy, mine and misty. He lays a turn 1 delver, i draw duress and then probe him to reveal land, goyf, hymnx2, force. Follow up with therapy on hymn. He flips delver with a daze and lays goyf. I lay a fetch and brainstom, which he dazes, so i fetch but lose out on the shuffle. I draw into fetch fetch ritual and die a few turns later.
Game 2 i keep a turn two kill with a probe (it was something like chrome mox, led, petal, dark rit, gemstone mine, tutor, probe) probe reveals force, daze, brainstorm, double wasteland and some more lands. I pass the turn without laying a land hoping to draw discard or a swarm. I hit the swarm on my turn 3, play a land and the swarm, he brainstorms and then forces pitching force. I have enough mana still to empty through a daze so i go for it but he managed to brainstorm into a spell pierce. My gemstone mine eats a wasteland the next turn. He hits a dark confidant a few turns later after ive built enough steam to try again, i go for it with only artifact mana and end up eating another counter. I lose shortly thereafter.
R8: BUG delver (ID)
Here was my list- i went back to 4 chrome moxes-i hate drawing them in multiples but love a few things about them, 1) they're a non waselandable, repeatable source of mana even though they're card disadvantage. 2)even when you have nothing to imprint they're a free storm count. 3) they make it much more difficult to brick off of ad nauseam even with no land drop left and 0 mana floating. This is my biggest reason for running the full playset...i really hate resolving ad nauseam and not winning, which happened a few times in a side event the day prior with a duress in the place of the last mox (more for lack of a mana source than the damage taken from duress)
4 lions eye diamond
4 lotus petal
4 chrome mox
4 dark ritual
4 rite of flame
4 gitaxian probe
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
3 infernal tutor
4 burning wish
4 cabal therapy
2 duress
1 ad nauseam
1 empty the warrens
2 scalding tarn
2 misty rainforest
2 volcanic island
2 underground sea
1 tropical island
4 gemstone mine
Sideboard
3 abrupt decay
3 xantid swarm
1 massacre
1 pyroclasm
1 void snare
1 empty the warrens
1 tendrils of agony
1 duress
1 thoughtseize
1 grapeshot
1 infernal tutor
Note: i cut past in flames from the board because i almost never want it...you have to have multiple of your 2 rituals, burning wish AND infernal tutor for it to ever be useful which has happened to me twice in my admittedly minimal experience with the deck. How often do you guys find yourselves wishing for the past in flames? And am i using it wrong (i usually look to be grabbing it the turn i go off)? Should i be grabbing it a turn prior and then using it in conjunction with led mana or something?
Also, i will say i was pleased with the extra mox and maindeck tropical island all day and took mental note of several times where i was saved by having mana from one or the other over the 3rd duress. That said, i would like to have a 7th protection spell in the main and am not sure what to replace if i continue ignoring the 3 mox conventional wisdom. Currently considering shaving a ponder or just going up to (gasp!) 61 cards. Thoughts?
Personally, I can't see myself ever going back to the old mana-base or Silence in the foreseeable future. I'm sure there are exceptions were I would, like scenarios where everyone starts playing Spell Snare and Stifle, but none of these seem likely. The current list just feels so tight; I feel like we've reached something of a milestone with the decks development.
As a semi-related aside, I finally confessed that I'll never get to use my Planeshift Foil Orim's Chants again. They're being sold. :'( </3.
I have no problem with passing the turn after Ad Nauseam as long as you calculate the possible damage output from your opponent. This usually happens if I start my flips with a bunch of cantrips and Tutors/Wishes but no mana in sight and proceed to work towards PIF in these cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tengo_Hambre
PIF is an MVP against grindy discard-matchups and decks dealing lots of damage in short time. There is no issue in getting several Rituals if you double those in your hand with Infernal or use cantrips accordingly, as usually 3 rituals are enough for a PIF loop. You neither need Infernal AND Wish as you can chain those into each other to place an Infernal in your graveyard and a wish in your hand. I find myself working towards the PIF loop pretty often.
I doubt you need more protection spells as you can wish for your SB discard anytime you need it without drawing them in matches you want gas instead. I mean, you have basically 10 discard spells in your mainboard to break through defense and 12 cantrips to find them, on top of 4 Infernals to double the discard in hand. That's nearly half your deck, so I usually rise an eyebrow evertime I read that peoples are unable to find at least 1 protection spell over several turns ;)
Why do you run 2 sweepers and 2 discard spells in your SB which are redundant but can't find space for PIF?
I wouldn't cut PiF. Like Lem said, it is one of your best options versus the discard decks. Being able to just sit and infernal for redundant rituals and such as they tear up your hand only to simply wish for pif and kill them is just a very nice option to have
The redundant sweepers are a product of wanting one to be viable against plainsless decks. I never went for massacre but also never played vs a plains. I did go for pyroclasm a few times and was fairly pleased with the card. The redundant discard was so i could board one in and still have a wish target, though i never ended up taking this line of play. I can definitely find space for past in flames, i just found myself rarely wanting it so i played other cards instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
For grindy discard matchups, are we talking jund, shardless bug, bug delver, or other decks I'm not thinking of? Im also curious how this line of play usually goes. If youre tutoring for burning wish you need to be hellbent or have the wish there to reveal, which means you are probably not tutoring for it anyway. If youre hellbent, you need 9 mana to chain tutor-wish-pif-begin flashback, and if you have that much mana, why not just chain a tutor once and empty, or go get ad nauseam? Otherwise, the pif route sounds like a multi turn one that is still very situational ( if you have red rituals you'll need access to RB after you pif to get the black for tutor-a minimum of 6 mana before casting it, for example). When you guys go the pif route do you often wind up emptying or do more often work into a lethal tendrils? Anyway, I'm not trying to say you guys are wrong or that the card is bad, but i would like some more description of some specific lines of play you've taken with it to better understand how and when to use it. My logic isn't figuring it out. Also, What rough percentage of games do you find yourself in a situation to use past in flames? Ive wanted it occasionally but not very often, perhaps 1 in 30 games.
I have never passed the turn after an ad nauseam; i tend to keep going until i can kill them that turn or kill myself (only done that once so far). This is a play pattern i can definitely work on (though at least i know myself well enough to tune the deck toward this tendency ;p). Anyway, i will definitely add this to my bag of tricks for the future :)
Hi again everyone, I'm on a bit of a cold streak with this deck lately, and I'm hoping I can snap out of it soon. The past 3 dailies in a row, I've ran into Miracles and lost to it, very frustratingly. The Miracles deck seems to be everywhere online, and I've run into some aggravating techs postboard like Ethersworn Canonist or Leyline of Sanctity. I'm wondering if anyone has had similar experience lately, or has any suggestions on flex slots I could tinker with, or other suggestions for a very Miracle-heavy meta.
It just gets to be annoying facing that deck because I feel like I have to draw significantly better than them in 2 games to win, which just isn't a consistent plan. There are games where I even get a good hate piece, like Needle on Top, and it just doesn't matter because they have a hand full of counters and hatebears. Obfuscating things more is that they can just open absurdly too, like a postboard game I lost where the opponent opened 2 Leylines of Sanctities, and then still have Force of Will + Blue card for my t1 Ad Nauseam, it's hard to train myself to play around counters when the opponent just has absurd hands like that.
Edit:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tengo_Hambre
Playing against miracles again and again is crap for any storm deck. Period. There are however quite some sneaky techs to try if you have some self loathing and want to keep storming in an field full of Miracles. A tech you can try are Young Pyromancers which Kai championed in Prague in an ANT shell while TES can even drop them T1 on a more reliable base unlike its storm twin and care less for Leylines, Canonists, Meddling Mages or spells getting stuck in the CounterbalanceQuote:
Originally Posted by wonderPreaux
I know running into Miracles over and over prolly isn't good odds, its just awful running into the fun-police day after day, which is sort of why I think of this as a cold streak. I tried the Pyromancer tech a while ago, and my main gripe about it is just that its hard to get there on it's own, even if they do board out all the removal, there's SCM, Clique and the occasional hatebear/Batterskull. Though, I have yet to try Pyromancer + Pithing Needle, I'd only ever tried the techs separately. If the Miracle decks don't go away, I'll either explore the Pyro/Pithing sb or I might switch to a more "Grinding Station" sort of deck, since my self-loathing/storm-love is just too overwhelming to try and full-out metagame the Miracles decks with something like Goblins (the deck, not the storm card :P).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
You could try a Doomsday list. Doomsday has way more options to fight Miracles than any other Storm variant.Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderPreaux
I can confirm that. It also appears some ANT players are now preferring to run multiple Sensei's Divining Tops in the sideboard instead of Young Pyromancers to grind out that matchup. Doomsday already runs 4 of those and also plays more lands because you don't run Infernal Tutor, which helps in grindy matchups. You can still sideboard 4 Abrupt Decays if you want and you may even go as far as sideboarding Shelldock Isle and Emrakul. However, between Karakas and Terminus I'm not sure how much I like going for Emrakul. You can play Doomsday with or without white, but I think the Silences give you a nice edge in the Miracles matchup as it negates their float a force on top strategy without having to board into Xantid Swarms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
Doomsday is best without storm spells at allQuote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
That's the beauty of Doomsday. You don't ever need to play a Storm spell in your main deck. Just build a Wish pile and get Tendrils from the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
The main deck will contain the other wincons you care to play, like Lab Man and/or Entreat the Angels.
Doomsday has it's own merrits of needing enough mana/cards to cast Doomsday, draw into the pile and being able to proceed, as pass-the-turn-piles are usually suicide in the current metagame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
True for most of the meta, but we were talking about Doomsday as an option against a Miracles-infested meta, and pass the turn piles are actually very valid in that matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Telegraphing your opponent with a pass-the-turn DD to keep bis mana open and Clique-blowout available isn't valid, neither can you get past existing problems of 1cc-spells-fueled-combos vs. miraclesQuote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
Of course it all depends on what he is holding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Combo cannot beat a Miracles God hand, not even Doomsday.
Anyway, we should go back on topic, before this becomes the Doomsday thread. :rolleyes:
Regarding beating miracles:
you all say its true - beating a God hand from miracles is almost imposible., definately its not a match I like to see - I enjoy the match up the most!, also the pilots who play it are very good players in my meta...
A thing I could do related to the DD. is: having 2 DD in side plus Emrakul and Sheldock Island (4 extra slots - you can take out maybe decays and other stuff)so on 2nd and 3rd game you just can side 1DD+S.I+Emralkul so you have the option to wish and I.T. for DD which is 2 mana less than A.N.
Also assuming Karakas is not drawn by Miracles. and that opponent will not be able to terminus on our turn. - the first scenarios is less likely to occur.
I just didnt tryied this, but you're rithg when you say that DD is just better as its a 3 mana cost alsobut needs a specific pile vs c.b. and Emrakul is the most effective.
I'm not sure if this can work but is 2 less mana tan other engine and once you played the DD, opp. has 2 more turns vs S.I or die!
If someone could just test this could be great!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelikanudo
This was done about 3-4 years ago in ANT frequently. it worked. kind of. also before terminus and before common karakas play.
people see this line now.
Talk about DD in the DD thread please.
Not here
SCG IQ + Weekly Event Reports
In the past 5 local tournaments I have compiled a match record of 16-2-2 (IDs in final rounds) with the deck, so I was feeling confident in trying it at a larger event. I played ANT and Doomsday extensively for the past year, both online and in paper. Switching to TES has resulted in the best results out of all the storm decks I've played. I'm including reports from both an SCG IQ and the last weekly event due to the differences in the matchups.
SCG IQ
Round 1 - Dredge
Game 1: I lose the die roll and draw my opening 7, which contains Dark Ritual, Infernal Tutor, Lion's Eye Diamond, a Fetchland, and Cantrips; good enough for a turn 1 Empty the Warrens. My opponent starts by playing a Cephalid Coliseum (suddenly Empty the Warrens doesn't seem like a great plan anymore), casts a Lion's Eye Diamond, taps the Coliseum to cast Breakthrough for 0, putting 9 cards in the graveyard. Fortunately for me there isn't a single dredge creature. My opponent then breaks the Lion's Eye Diamond for red to cast a Faithless Looting and passes the turn. I draw a Lotus Petal for my turn, and decide, with the Cabal Therapies in the yard, that casting an Ad Nauseam with no mana floating is safer than casting Empty the Warrens for 12 goblins. I go to 1 life and fail to find a Burning Wish or Infernal Tutor and have to settle for an Empty the Warrens for 34 goblins. My opponent draws and scoops. I comment on my opponent's bad luck of seeing 13 cards with no dredge creatures. I side out Cabal Therapy (especially bad on the draw), and side in Chain of Vapor mainly to fight Iona.
Win - T1 Ad Nauseam into 34 goblins (1-0)
-3 Cabal Therapy
-1 Empty the Warrens
+2 Surgical Extraction
+2 Chain of Vapor
Game 2: I draw my 7 and immediately mulligan to 6 with my opponent, who further mulligans to 5. My 6 card hand is slow - a Duress, Ponder, tutor, ritual, and lands. He starts with an Unmask, exiling a Cabal Therapy, to discard my tutor, plays a Mana Confluence and casts a Faithless Looting, again discarding no dredge creatures. I start my turn by fetching an Underground Sea and decide to cast Duress over Ponder, seeing a singleton Gemstone Mine. My opponent draws for the turn and casts Breakthrough for 0, discarding a Stinkweed Imp. I play a land, Gitaxian Probe, Ponder, draw a Gitaxian Probe, floating mana and an Ad Nauseam on top of my library. My opponent dredges the Stinkweed Imp into Cabal Therapy and a Golgari Thug. I draw for the turn, cast Gitaxian Probe to cast Ad Nauseam, with an unused Lotus Petal, producing a Tendrils of Agony for the win.
Win - T3 Ad Nauseam into Tendrils of Agony (2-0)
1-0 (2-0)
Round 2 - Jund Loam
Game 1: I lose the die roll and draw my opening 7. My opponent mulligans down to 6 cards and starts with a Fetchland. I play Gitaxian Probe, see a hand of 5 lands including a Grove of the Burnwillows and 2 Mutavaults, and follow with a Ponder. The next turn I'm able to tutor for and cast Ad Nauseam, revealing sufficient mana and Burning Wish. He asks to see the Tendrils of Agony in my sideboard and scoops.
Win - Turn 2 Ad Nauseam into Tendrils of Agony (1-0)
-1 Cabal Therapy
-1 Duress
+2 Chain of Vapor
Game 2: I play Gitaxian Probe and see a hand of Pack Rat, Verdant Catacombs, Life from the Loam, and Abrupt Decay, and cast Empty the Warrens on turn 1 for 14 goblins. My opponent fails to find an answer in two draw steps. I notice my opponent has a Traditional-Chinese Burning Wish and comment on how I've been looking for one more to finish my set. He says he'll be willing to trade it to me after the tournament, what an awesome guy!
Win - Turn 1 Empty the Warrens for 14 goblins (2-0)
2-0 (4-0)
Round 3 - Maverick
Game 1: I lose the die roll and draw my opening 7, a very slow opening hand with discard and cantrips. My opponent opens with a Windswept Heath. I play Gitaxian Probe and see Knight of the Reliquary, Umezawa's Jitte, Scavenging Ooze, Windswept Heath, Verdant Catacombs, and Scrubland. I decide against casting Cabal Therapy on his Scavenging Ooze, and instead play a Ponder, leading to a shuffle. My opponent plays Scavenging Ooze and passes. I cast Cabal Therapy naming Knight of the Reliquary, cast Ponder, and again shuffle. He attacks with the Scavenging Ooze, Wastelands a land, and decides to keep mana open in case of Past in Flames. I take another hit from the Scavenging Ooze, after exiling the Knight and drop to 9. I activate a fetchland on my turn and chain Infernal Tutors for 20 damage with Tendrils of Agony. I consider myself incredibly lucky to not have seen a Thalia in 4 turns and prepare my sideboard to fight both Thalia and Gaddock Teeg.
Win - Turn 4 Tendrils of Agony (1-0)
-3 Duress
-1 Ponder
+2 Chain of Vapor
+1 Thoughtseize
+1 Karakas
Game 2: I expect to face a heavy assortment of annoying 2-mana creatures and throw away an opening 7 of 3 lands, 4 cantrips. I keep a not so stellar 6 card hand. He plays a forest and passes. I play a land and Ponder, hitting nothing and shuffle. He plays a land and an Ethersworn Canonist. I play a land, Ponder, and shuffle. He plays a Thalia, in response, I cast a Brainstorm. I ponder again and play a chrome mox, which pays for another chrome mox. He casts a Gaddock Teeg and wastelands my Underground Sea. I lose in a couple of turns, hoping to draw Karakas and Chain of Vapor with a hand full of rituals.
Loss (1-1)
Game 3: On the play for the first time this tournament! I throw back a slow opening 7 and open the following:
Fetchland
Chrome Mox
Lotus Petal
Rite of Flame
Empty the Warrens
Brainstorm
I make the decision to go all in on 8 goblins turn 1: I play Chrome Mox, exiling a Brainstorm, Lotus Petal, Land, Rite of Flame, Empty the Warrens. He plays a land into turn 1 Deathrite Shaman. I draw a Lion's Eye Diamond and swing for 7. He untaps and plays a Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. I draw a Dark Ritual, attack for 5, and tap my land to play Lion's Eye Diamond. He plays a Qasali Pridemage, and wastelands my Underground Sea. I draw an Infernal Tutor and Attack for 2, my goal being to cast a Grapeshot for the last 5 damage, which will require at least 3 initial mana sources or a Karakas to bounce the Thalia. Unfortunately he uses the Pridemage to destroy my Lion's Eye Diamond and quickly ends the game. He tells me later he topdecked the Deathrite Shaman (which prevented 6 total damage) and I debate on whether or not it would have been better to Brainstorm for a larger Empty the Warrens on turn 2.
Loss (1-2)
2-1 (5-2)
Round 4 - BUG Delver
Game 1: I lose the die roll and start with a relatively slow 7. He plays turn 1 Underground Sea and passes. I play a ponder and float business on the top of my library. My opponent plays a Tropical Island, Ponder, and shuffles. I brainstorm, putting back a Ponder and an Infernal Tutor. My opponent casts a Hymn to Tourach, discarding a Burning Wish and a Brainstorm. I play a Ponder for the turn. My opponent wastelands my Underground Sea. I play a Duress and see Abrupt Decay, Wasteland, Daze, and discard the Daze. I tutor for Ad Nauseam into a Tendrils of Agony. I'm lucky that my opponent didn't find a fast creature to pressure my life total.
Win - Turn 3 Ad Nauseam (1-0)
-1 Cabal Therapy
+1 Pyroblast
Game 2: My opponent starts with a mulligan to 6, plays an Underground Sea and passes the turn. I cast a Gitaxian Probe, seeing Force of Will, Swan Song, Surgical Extraction, Wasteland, and Hymn to Tourach. Since my hand has both redundant mana and tutors, I cast Cabal Therapy and take the Force of Will, reasoning that if he casts Swan Song later I'll be able to flash back Cabal Therapy. He plays a Hymn to Tourach, taking my Infernal Tutor and a ritual. He then casts Surgical Extraction on my Infernal Tutor. We both cantrip for a few turns, with a couple of my lands hit by Wasteland and my hand by a Thoughtseize. I start my turn by casting Duress, taking Swan Song, eventually casting Empty the Warrens for 12 goblins. He cantrips, looking for a sweeper for two turns and extends the hand.
Win - Turn 6 Empty the Warrens for 12 goblins (2-0)
3-1 (7-2)
Round 5 - Jund
Game 1: I win the die roll (first time!) and start with a pretty strong hand. My opponent mulligans to 5 looking for lands. I cast Duress, and see a hand of Lightning Bolt, Punishing Fire, Abrupt Decay, and creatures. I take the Lightning Bolt and tutor for Ad Nauseam, leading to a Tendrils of Agony.
Win - Turn 3 Ad Nauseam into Tendrils of Agony (1-0)
-1 Empty the Warrens
+1 Empty the Warrens
Game 2: He starts with a Deathrite Shaman. I play a Ponder and shuffle. My hand is now completely full of mana and no action. He casts a Hymn to Tourach and the next turn he lands a Dark Confidant. My hand at this point is 2x Rite of Flame, 2x Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual. He casts a Liliana and a Thoughtseize. I never draw business and lose.
Loss (1-1)
Game 3: I mulligan away a slow hand. I keep a Belcher hand and summon 10 goblins on turn 1. He comments on his outs and plays a Grove of the Burnwillows and passes. I draw a land and attack for 10. He plays a Tarmogoyf and passes. I attack for 9 and pass. He draws his card for the turn and extends the hand.
Win - Turn 1 Empty the Warrens for 10 goblins (2-1)
4-1 (9-3)
Round 6 - ID
We find out that all the 4-1's except 1 can ID into the top 8. My opponent and I have good enough tiebreaks that we can ID.
ID
4-1-1 (9-3-3)
Top 8 Quarterfinals - 4C Deathblade
Game 1: Since I have a lower seed, I'm on the draw. My opponent starts with a land into Deathrite Shaman. I play Gitaxian Probe and see Sensei's Divining Top, Wasteland, 2x Deathrite Shaman, and Brainstorm. Especially after losing to Deathrite Shaman, I immediately plan to set up for Ad Nauseam rather than a fast Empty the Warrens since even a single Deathrite prevents quite a lot of damage. The next turn my Brainstorm is hit by a Spell Pierce and double Wastelands keep me a single mana off from tutoring for and casting Ad Nauseam. Stoneforge Mystic summons a Batterskull to the board and two swings later I start sideboarding. Looking back I think a better plan would be to use Cabal Therapy to get rid of 2x Deathrite Shaman and then cast a medium sized Empty the Warrens, especially with the Cabal Therapies available to take care of any tutored Batterskulls. I side in Pyroblasts in case of Meddling Mage, which I found out was the correct call.
-1 Cabal Therapy
-1 Ponder
+2 Pyroblast
Game 2: I open a hand with Gitaxian Probe, 2x Cabal Therapy, Burning Wish, Rite of Flame, Pyroblast, and Land. I start with a Gitaxian Probe and see Force of Will, Brainstorm, Deathrite Shaman, Jace, Karakas, and Land. The next turn I play a Land, cast Cabal Therapy and Pyroblast the expected Brainstorm in reponse. I name Force of Will with Cabal Therapy and pass. My plan now is to cast Burning Wish for Infernal Tutor and combo the following turn. I play a Chrome Mox and punt the game by exiling a Cabal Therapy instead of a Rite of Flame and cannot cast the Burning Wish in my hand. I lose shortly afterwards.
4-2-1 (9-5-3)
Props
-Great opponents!
-Great company driving to the event
-Dodging the 4 Miracles players at the top tables
-Completing my playset of Traditional-Chinese Burning Wish
Slops
-Turning a Chrome Mox into a Mox Jet to cast Burning Wish...
-Deathrite Shaman destroying goblins by being a 1/2.
-My lands mercilessly being destroyed by Wasteland
-Losing the die roll 4/5 times
Stats
-Cast Ad Nauseam 6 times
-Cast Empty the Warrens 4 times (1 loss and 1 off of an Ad Nauseam)
-Natural storm 1 time
Weekly Event
My notes and memory of the matches aren't as complete as from the previous event.
Round 1 - Death and Taxes
Game 1:
I'm on the play and pay 2 life to cast Gitaxian Probe and see 2 Karakas, a Plains, Stoneforge Mystic, Phyrexian Revoker, Mother of Runes, and Swords to Plowshares. My opponent plays a Plains and summons a Mother of Runes. I tutor for Ad Nauseam into Tendrils of Agony.
Win - T2 Ad Nauseam (1-0)
-3 Duress
-1 Ponder
+2 Chain of Vapor
+1 Thoughtseize
+1 Karakas
Game 2: My opponent opens with Wasteland into Aether Vial. I pay 2 life to play Gitaxian Probe and see the following monstrosity:
Spirit of the Labyrinth
Stoneforge Mystic
Phyrexian Revoker
Rishadan Port
Ethersworn Canonist
I cast Cabal Therapy and name Ethersworn Canonist and set up for a Empty the Warrens next turn. Fortunately my opponent doesn't draw a white mana source and can only cast a Phyrexian Revoker naming Lion's Eye Diamond after putting a counter on Aether Vial. I tutor an Empty the Warrens for 12 goblins and flash back Cabal Therapy to discard the Stoneforge Mystic. I am able to attack with goblins for the win.
Win - T2 Empty the Warrens for 12 goblins (2-0)
1-0 (2-0)
Round 2 - Miracles
Game 1: I win the die roll and Ponder to set up. The next turn I play Gitaxian Probe and see Counterbalance, Force of Will, Vendilion Clique, Jace, and Arid Mesa. I luckily have Empty the Warrens in hand and resolve it for 10 goblins. My opponent cannot find a Terminus and I win.
Win - T2 Empty the Warrens for 10 goblins (1-0)
-1 Empty the Warrens
-1 Cabal Therapy
-1 Ponder
+2 Pyroblast
+1 Past in Flames
Game 2: My Ponder is countered by Red Elemental Blast. My Burning Wish is countered. My Brainstorm is hit by a Snapcaster flashing back Red Elemental Blast. Vendilion Clique and Snapcaster Mage attack for the win.
Loss (1-1)
Game 3: My opponent leads with a fast Counterbalance. Later in the game I cast a discard spell to trigger Counterbalance and find the top card is a land. I cast rituals and cast Ad Nauseam with no mana floating, finding a Past in Flames; I discard roughly 15 cards. The next turn I cast a monstrous Past in Flames to eventually find Tendrils of Agony.
Win - T4 Ad Nauseam into Past in Flames (2-1)
2-0 (4-1)
Round 3 - Esper Deathblade
Game 1: I cast a fast Empty the Warrens for 10 goblins against a Deathrite Shaman.
Win - Empty the Warrens (2-0)
-1 Cabal Therapy
-1 Ponder
+2 Pyroblast
Game 2: I cast a fast Empty the Warrens after being hit by a Thoughtseize and Surgical Extraction. I discard my opponent's Zealous Persecution.
Win - Empty the Warrens (2-0)
3-0 (6-1)
Round 4 - Miracles
Game 1: My opponent resolves a Vendilion Clique and a Snapcaster Mage. I cast Burning Wish for Massacre, and on my next turn, cast Massacre into a small Empty the Warrens for 6 goblins. They are able to attack twice before my opponent finds a Detention Sphere. A Counterbalance + Sensei's Divning Top, Jace the Mind Sculptor, and Vendilion Clique end the game in my opponent's favor.
Loss (0-1)
-1 Empty the Warrens
-1 Cabal Therapy
-1 Ponder
+2 Pyroblast
+1 Past in Flames
Game 2: I cast a Gitaxian Probe and see Entreat the Angels, Terminus, Force of Will, Misdirection, Jace, and Counterbalance. I cast discard and cantrip for a couple of turns and my opponent is able to Stone Rain two of my lands with a Back to Basics. However, a very strong Ponder the turn before allows me to tutor for and cast an Ad Nauseam into Tendrils of Agony.
Win - T4 Ad Nauseam (1-1)
Game 3: My opponent lands a quick Counterbalance and I play out my artifact mana when given a chance while discarding his Brainstorm. We both continue to draw lands and I am able to tutor for an Ad Nauseam with tons of mana floating and find a Past in Flames. My opponent has a land on top of his library and I cast a Rite of Flame; in response he activates a fetchland to reveal a Counterbalance on top. I cast the mana in my hand and cast Past in Flames to flashback a pyroblast on the Counterbalance in order to resolve my tutors and win with Tendrils of Agony.
Win - T6+ Ad Nauseam into Past in Flames (2-1)
4-0 (8-2)
Stats
-Cast Ad Nauseam 4 times
-Cast Empty the Warrens 5 times (1 loss)
-Cast Past in Flames 2 times (both maindeck)
Mainboard
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
3x Duress
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Burning Wish
3x Infernal Tutor
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Ad Nauseam
4x Rite of Flame
4x Dark Ritual
2x Cabal Ritual
4x Lotus Petal
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
2x Chrome Mox
4x Polluted Delta
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Underground Sea
2x Volcanic Island
1x Badlands
Sideboard
2x Pyroblast
2x Chain of Vapor
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Karakas
1x Void Snare
1x Thoughtseize
1x Grapeshot
1x Massacre
1x Infernal Tutor
1x Past in Flames
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Tendrils of Agony
I've been playing the mainboard in the last 6 tournaments, to a combined match record of (20-4-3), with all the draws being ID in the final rounds. My losses have been to Miracles, Esper Deathblade, and 2x Maverick. I really like having 8 fetchlands to make the brainstorms stronger as well as being more resilient against Wasteland. The sideboard has stayed relatively constant, switching around the 2 Surgical Extractions for Pyroblast, Chain of Vapor, or Pithing Needles. I am happy with having 2 Surgical Extractions to have a fighting chance against fast combo and graveyard strategies. Some notes about the build:
Ad Nauseam
The biggest difference I noticed when switching from ANT to TES is the increased strength and consistency of Ad Nauseam. Even with only 2 Chrome Mox in the deck I have yet to lose due to not finding an initial mana source. Having Burning Wish lowers the dependency of finding both an Infernal Tutor and a Lion's Eye Diamond.
Cabal Ritual
Having 2 Cabal Ritual in the maindeck helps to cast Ad Nauseam off of Burning Wish and also provides a very strong source of mana lategame.
Badlands
I replaced the third Chrome Mox with a thirteenth land. I have used a third Underground Sea but noticed that there were many times that I wanted to fetch a land to cast discard the current turn and then produce red mana for the combo turn. I have found that the number of times this has been applicable has been greater than the times Badlands is the sole land in my initial hand with cantrips, and would likely be better than a Chrome Mox anyways.
Sideboard
By constructing the manabase solely with fetchlands and dual lands, I decided that keeping the deck strictly three colors is better for consistency. This does leave the deck weaker against Blue combo decks and Miracles, which is partially addressed from including Pyroblast, Surgical Extraction, and Karakas.
TLDR
4-2-1 (9-3-3) at SCG IQ
2-0 vs. Dredge
2-0 vs. Jund Loam
1-2 vs. Maverick
2-0 vs. BUG Delver
2-0 vs. Jund
0-2 vs. Esper Deathblade
4-0 (8-2) at Weekly Event
2-0 vs. Death and Taxes
2-1 vs. Miracles
2-0 vs. Esper Deathblade
2-1 vs. Miracles
Thanks for reading and I'll be interested in any feedback!
I'd love to see at least 1 Pithing Needle in the SB of that deck, Needle has been nothing but good to me in testing, no matter how many colors I run. Have you really been alright with no Gemstones and 3 Burning Wish only? I'm unsure myself on how many Gemstone to run in 3c, but I'm not sure I'd ever cut Wishes, love to see them most of the time.
In your round 3 game 3 against Maverick, is there a reason you didn't just go land > Brainstorm? If you hit Dark Ritual or Rite or Petal+Petal or Probe+LED or Tutor+Dark Ritual+LED or Wish+Rite+Rite or Wish+Rite+LED or Wish+LED+LED, suddenly you have a far more viable 10/12/14/14/14/14/14/14 Goblins, respectively. While those might be narrow outs, I think 8 Goblins has such low odds of getting there that you have to just get greedy and try for the big hit of Brainstorm. (Odds of Brainstorm hitting Dark Ritual/Rite is 35.2%, not factoring the combo hits, if anyone is really curious I could crunch the numbers of all the outcomes, but I estimate it to be close to 40%, which feels way better than 8 Goblins). EDIT: Your top 3 were Dark Ritual, LED and Infernal Tutor, so you could've had 14 Goblins, hindsight's 20/20, but I would've used the Brainstorm to try and go turn 1.
Off-topic: I wanted to touch base with everyone about the Shardless BUG matchup. Taking the stock list as reference, I'm inclined to board out Empty the Warrens and one of the 3 Chrome Moxen, due to sweepers, and the general slowness of the matchup. From there, I board in Tendrils of Agony, for the natural lines (very relevant, as Shardless has little defense from it, also solves splash Meddling Mage), but from there I'm unsure what is a good 2nd slot. I'm between Chain of Vapor to hedge against Null Rod/Meddling Mage, or Pithing Needle to curb Lilliana/DRS/Wasteland/Jace. I'm leaning towards Chain, because you can win quickly enough to stop planeswalkers/DRS/Wasteland from beating you a lot more often than you can beat a Meddling Mage or Null Rod and giving Shardless time to accrue advantage seems like one of the ways to lose, so the card facilitating the fastest wins seems best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DireNTropy
All 3 routes are wrong here. Considering that you have 3 IMS here and a RoF in hand, any RoF, DR, Petal in the top 3 creates 12 goblins rather than 8 (not to talk about options like LED, Probe or stuff in the top 3 which present even more options). The fact that you don't want to brainstorm-lock yourself here, using the land to cast the blue instant (while having the Mox in your hand, which you might want to shuffle away if the cards drawn with BS are not good enough aka "un-mulligan"), leaves only one option: play Fetch, drop Petal, sac Petal for blue, Brainstorm.Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderPreaux
I don't know why you are talking about Meddling Mage in BUG. I'm also not too afraid of the Deluges as they took the spot of Charms in most lists i saw lately which they often can't cast in time or in response to Therapy's Flashback, which should affect the previous suggested switch of EtW -> ToA you can still find in Bryant's SB guide. Other than that I can see that you might want to board out a Ponder and the 3rd Mox for something like Needles or Pyroblast (depending in your SB choices of course) to block DRS, Lilianas, Wastelands or to combat their blue drawenginesQuote:
Originally Posted by wonderPreaux
it is a proposal for TES deck, therefore it is correct in here its place.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasDowd
Thanks
Is this the proposal for a certain number of Doomsdays, and the Shelldock-Combo in the SB?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelikanudo
It wasn't. Someone mentioned he was considering moving to ANT because he lost to Miracles all the time, and he felt ANT had the better chance in that particular matchup. I responded by saying Doomsday would probably have an even better chance against Miracles. Afterweards a discussion started that I tried to stop, because it was of course off topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelikanudo
We can, however, go into detail on the idea of adding a Doomsday to the sideboard of TES. It's a valid choice if we run 12 cantrips, but it also asks for an Ideas Unbound or Meditate somewhere in the 75, which would be somewhat costly considering the little space we have to fool around with.
I have tried that months ago (The SB Doomsday and switching out a single MB cantrip for Ideas Unbound, not the lets-lose-to-stifle-or-wasteland-or-karakas-Emrakul-plan) and it wasn't really adressing any existing problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
The matchup isn't good for storm, but I'm sure if both players have average draws, its possible to "bleed out" Miracles in some games and win the match. You don't have to start every game on the draw against T1 Top, T2 Counterbalance with FoW backup and lose to it due to not finding a Decay or getting mauled by a T3/4 Clique. Pushing yourself and the deck in this matchup too much is doomed to fail. If you still need additional help in addition to the 4 SB dedicated for that matchup, you can still choose to add the xantids in that matchup or rebuild the SB towards combating Miracles.
I don't see a leap in the matchup just by switching to another storm-variant, rather than playing colorless-12-post (not to confuse with MUD) which I tend to do to annoy Miracles ;D
4-1'd split t4 at redcaps corner. Lost to a miracles. G3 on play thoughtseize see only fluster and anti-empty cards. Take fluster. Next turn setup brainstorm/led/probe/nauseum. See a 2nd fluster. Lose.
Beat jund, manaless w/counters, miracles, and elves. Played my list w a top over the sb blood moon. Top was good. Going forward, im thinking of cutting the swarms since miracle opponents consistently have removal for them. Looking to add 3rd decay and 2nd top.
I will admit thatplaying the non-city list is optimal for the top plan.
this was what I proposed for a TES:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Regarding beating miracles:
you all say its true - beating a God hand from miracles is almost imposible., definately its not a match I like to see - I enjoy the match up the most!, also the pilots who play it are very good players in my meta...
A thing I could do related to the DD. is: having 2 DD in side plus Emrakul and Sheldock Island (4 extra slots - you can take out maybe decays and other stuff)so on 2nd and 3rd game you just can side 1DD+S.I+Emralkul so you have the option to wish and I.T. for DD which is 2 mana less than A.N.
Also assuming Karakas is not drawn by Miracles. and that opponent will not be able to terminus on our turn. - the first scenarios is less likely to occur.
I just didnt tryied this, but you're rithg when you say that DD is just better as its a 3 mana cost alsobut needs a specific pile vs c.b. and Emrakul is the most effective.
I'm not sure if this can work but is 2 less mana tan other engine and once you played the DD, opp. has 2 more turns vs S.I or die!
If someone could just test this could be great!